Landlord secretly sold the house I've been renting for 8 yrs. - what now?

[rotary]

It is cheaper to rent than own in Thailand in most cases but stories like this is why I always buy

[lucjoker]

a rent of 7000 bht for a house (not a room)during 8 years ?

No wonder the owner is in debt and sells the house.

You dont know how lucky you were !

And now you want to accuse the landlord for tax-evasion ?

You won't be joking when he sends some "fixers" to "talk" to you.

[iamariva1957]

Sorry but you first state that you have had no contract and then you go on about actually having one with the original landlord. So which is it? Sort of makes a difference.

If you do have a contract (which would mean you have it writing) then you have a chance. But without one... just consider yourself lucky for the past 8 years and move out by November (as you have paid for October). Pain in the arse, but what else can you do.

[meatboy]

verbal contract in thailand NO SUCH THING.

loyalty and honesty NO SUCH THING.

do i have a leg to stand on. NOT ULESS YOU HAVE 3.

[EnglishThaiVisa]

It's very simple.

1) You have a contract (viva voce - voice). Verbal contracts have the same legal effect as written ones as long as you know how to "keep your claim on top" - legalese expression.

2) If the old owner owes you money you can to start a private process to get your money back. You may also want to include your fee schedule if he doesnt do it. However, you will need to create a private record in the first place. The best way is to just approach your old landlord and say what you want from him. In many instances i found that many things can be resolved privately, without courts.

3) The new landlord is generous to give you enought time. If the price wasnt increased for 8 years you are a very lucky man. Just pay what he wants, try to negotiate or move out in a timely manner.

4) If you suspect tax fraud then report it. I should be very careful when you mention this to your old landlord that if he doesnt pay you back the money you will report him. Always use "may" word because it will remove any instances where he can sue you for defamination. A word "may" is one of the best words if used correctly.

[Greg Nixon]

Look for a new place to rent an avoid the mental anguish. Move out ASAP. Leave the place in a shambles.

[slipperylobster]

You need counsel. The laws here are quite different than back home. In California, if you do not have a lease, it is still a month to month contract, and I (the owner) had to go through an eviction process to get out the tenant in order to sell. Each state is different, and I imagine Thailand is different as well. The problem is, when no contract is signed, acceptance of a rent and holding a deposit is a contract in itself.

I do believe the owner has a perfectly good right to sell the house. You, on the other hand, have time to look elsewhere or, alternatively, respect the contract of the new owner. If you do not like the terms, why not move???

Living where you are not wanted, especially here in Thailand, can be a dangerous business. In the Philippines (ok,ok not thailand, but I imagine similar)....the owner comes by, drunk and upset, and starts screaming. Then he tells me to leave...it never gets to court...there is a gun in his back pocket. I told him 5 years earlier not to make threats if he wanted me to leave.... just give me a proper notice and we both would tear up the lease. If they want you out....then it just makes sense that you leave.

If the new owner wants too much, offer him six months advance rent, at a lower price. Money shouts over here.

Edited October 10, 2014 by slipperylobster

[54321]

I am pretty sure the law you refers to is regarding occupying land and using it as your own without any objection or payment/consideration (from/to the owner) for a period of 8 years.

I'm vaguely aware of a Law that gives a tenant the right to occupy if they have been living on land without a tenancy agreement for a lengthy period of time. But this would almost certainly only apply to Thais. In short, and speaking as a professional, you have no right to remain and your former Landlord had no obligation to tell you about the sale. The new landlord has no obligation to keep you and if they do this will be a new arrangement completely separate to the last. My advice..... Either do a deal you are happy with on the current house or move. In either case get a contract. There's no Housing Act or ASTs in Thailand!

[2beornot2be]

I would like to thank you everybody for expressing your opinions here. It's been very interesting to hear different views from different angles, even a few slightly insulting ones. Every contribution of you has been of help and I'm neither complaining nor whining - just wondering a bit. I post this as a real-life experience that might be interesting for someone else.

I would like to clarify that the new owner, who I met for the first time two days ago, actually complained that my old Landlord failed to transfer my rent to his account for the past five or six months. That's why he urged me to pay my rent directly into his account now. He produced a land-title, effective 24. September 2014 to prove his legal ownership.

I am indeed lucky that my new Landlord seems to be a kind and open person, ready to talk and to listen. I'm confident that we will find a way out of this mess. I've never ever thought to blackmail or take anybody to court. I know where I live and I still enjoy it!

[donmuang37]

In Thailand, a verbal contract is very difficult to enforce, especially for farangs. So, as a practical matter, you have no contract and are at the mercy of the new owner. If you can't work out something with him, it's time to pack up. As for the October rent, I think you've been had. So without a good, educated Thai wife, you don't stand much of a chance getting your rent back.

As for rights, farangs have few rights in Thailand regardless of what the law says. It's extremely rare to see the courts rule in favor of a farang over a Thai. Rarer than hen's teeth. Good luck

[harrry]

I just got a surprise visit from a person who claims to be the new owner of the house that I've been renting for more than eight years (without a written contract but trouble-free).

He produced documents showing that he signed a sell/buy contract with my former Landlord some 18 months(!) ago. Last month (September 2014), my Landlord asked for permission for some bank officials to enter her property for an assessment of the estate's value in order to "refinance" her mortgage. Getting suspicious, I asked her if she was going to sell her house. She said no. I also asked her if she was respecting our contract and she said yes: "don't worry, no change, everything the same like before".

It now turned out that she sold the house, without ever telling me. There was no mention of my contract in any of the documents confirming the transfer of ownership. Because the old owner did not inform me of the changes, I've already paid my rent for October to her account, on 1st of the month as usual.

The new owner wants me to pay my rent into his bank-account. He declines any obligation regarding my old contract and wants me to sign a new, written one and less favorable than my former agreement, i.e. a steep rise in the monthly rent and a substantial safety deposit. He grants me a grace-period until 31st December to get things done...

The whole story sounds so absurd that I start smelling something fishy behind the scene. Tax evasion, maybe? I can of course prove that I always paid my rent in due time, totaling an amount of several hundred-thousand baht.

What rights (if any) do I have in this situation? Is the new owner in any way bound to respect my former contract? What is your advice?

sounds as if the owner did a morgage on the house with a money lender and didnt repay it so they are taking it. me personally if they were putting the rent up id move somewhere new, just because they prob were told by the owner that they had a long term tennant who would stay there when they did the morgage (normal) id throw it back in their face and not take it. the original owner prob stopped paying interest to the lender etc... so they want your income

Hold on..he showed some documents...worthless unless they are registered at the Land Office. I would talk to the original owner and unless she confirms this keep sending the rent to her. I would then tell the other person that you will go to the police if she did not confirm that she had sold the house as it sounds as if there could be a problem. Sorry....I just noticed the last post. He has a new chanote aparently and is now the owner so what he says applies. Sounds as if he is being quite fair. You can of course negotiate the rent amount but it is really what he wants that counts. Just watch the deposit. One months bond and one month in advance is the normal here. Any more is inadvisable.

Edited October 10, 2014 by harrry

[SLESQ]

2B.... you seem to be on the right path by your last post. I hope this also helps you in your talks with the new owner.

The "Ask a Lawyer" forum is a free advice source from which you get what you pay for. With more than 20 years providing legal services in the US, while I am retired from the law I have not forgotten what I learned and practiced over that time. I have read the law forum reports and received that law firm’s advice in preliminary, private consolations. They are nice people, and very polite, but I cannot in good faith ask them for more, or recommend them to others.

We renters are often victimized by real property scams: far too many lawyers in Chiang Mai have undeclared conflicts of interest, adding to and not resolving a legal problem. If you feel you need one, hire a lawyer from Bangkok if you are in Chiang Mai. Ask your BKK lawyer to draft your new lease or to at least to review the landlord's new lease before you sign it.

1. No lease with a term of more than 3 years is enforceable unless it is in writing and filed/registered with the local real property office (the preferred method of giving constructive notice of the pendency of a longer lease). A potential way around this is if you give actual notice of the pendency of your lease to a buyer in good faith and for value before the sale or rent. See below where I discuss this point more. This concept comes from Thai case law and not statutory law.

2. As you and the new owner are on a good footing to start, that may be all you need. But, if things don't go well for you, as you did not give the buyer actual notice of your lease, you may yet be able to (with difficulty) prove the buyer had actual notice and he chose to buy the property anyway. If he did not pay value (subjective not objective standard), your position can be enhanced, but it will take a lot of hearings and honesty and your THB paid to your lawyers to reach this point. I don't project any success for you if you follow a litigation or a contentious path.

3. Rather than waste your money with lawyers straight off by seeking to fight, try first to reach an accommodation with the new buyer. You have some very strong points :

a. As you are being offered a new lease, it may be the new owner would (as has been suggested) want a good tenant for a long term with a nearly guaranteed income. Find out what the owner wants, state your needs, and get all the details and numbers fully understood. Then, write out a summary of your understanding and get the current owner to agree to the understanding as the basis for drafting a lease between the two of you.

b. If the lease is to be for more than three years, get the owner to agree to register the lease with the appropriate land office. Get a copy of that registration and keep it safe. He may ask you to pay the full fee; you can try to negotiate sharing the fee as the registration benefits you both. But he may not want to disclose the rent that must be done in making a registration; he would have income tax consequences and you can not ever know what percentage he would pay. If he is willing to accept his own tax burden, you will be well served.

c. If he registers your lease or not, consider making a Special Reciprocal lease for up to 30 years with the right to renew in the final year if you think that will help you have a more peaceful rental. This permits you to make certain renovations and repairs at your cost (and leaves other normal repairs for the the owner to make), but know that your renovations pass to the owner when you leave. However, such a lease gives you the opportunity to show the added value you are giving to the owner for granting you a long term lease.

d. You cannot force the owner to register the lease, but if he signs a special reciprocal lease for more than 3 years, you can post a lovely sign in clear view of the road that gives actual notice of your lease and rights for all to see who look at the property. He should not object to such a sign (see insert) for arguably the sign provides actual notice of your lease, there is no need to disclose the rent, and the sign as acutal notice should be better than the Registration that provides only constructive notice. Better yet, it is not reasonable to presume or argue that a buyer or renter for value would fail to look at the property either himself or through his agent. Under the law of agency, knowledge to the real estate agent is the same as if the owner had such knowledge.

4. Don’t be cheap! If you are happy with your home and want to stay for 8 + years, recognize you will need to pay more than you did 8 years ago, but then too, the THB is not very strong today and you may even get away with a fixed rent for the term you seek. You might want to consider a modest rent escalator to make the deal more sweet: perhaps an increase of 0.5 % annually for the first years and then up or down from there… whichever way the talks take you.

5. Never forget we are guests here. It is far better to make a friend of a land lord to help you to have an ideal tenancy. The landlord also wants a good tenant who will pay rent on time and even make some repairs or improvements to help retain the value of the property.

Good luck to you.

[marcusd]

Time to move

[beachproperty]

2B.... you seem to be on the right path by your last post. I hope this also helps you in your talks with the new owner.

The "Ask a Lawyer" forum is a free advice source from which you get what you pay for. With more than 20 years providing legal services in the US, while I am retired from the law I have not forgotten what I learned and practiced over that time. I have read the law forum reports and received that law firm’s advice in preliminary, private consolations. They are nice people, and very polite, but I cannot in good faith ask them for more, or recommend them to others.

We renters are often victimized by real property scams: far too many lawyers in Chiang Mai have undeclared conflicts of interest, adding to and not resolving a legal problem. If you feel you need one, hire a lawyer from Bangkok if you are in Chiang Mai. Ask your BKK lawyer to draft your new lease or to at least to review the landlord's new lease before you sign it.

1. No lease with a term of more than 3 years is enforceable unless it is in writing and filed/registered with the local real property office (the preferred method of giving constructive notice of the pendency of a longer lease). A potential way around this is if you give actual notice of the pendency of your lease to a buyer in good faith and for value before the sale or rent. See below where I discuss this point more. This concept comes from Thai case law and not statutory law.

2. As you and the new owner are on a good footing to start, that may be all you need. But, if things don't go well for you, as you did not give the buyer actual notice of your lease, you may yet be able to (with difficulty) prove the buyer had actual notice and he chose to buy the property anyway. If he did not pay value (subjective not objective standard), your position can be enhanced, but it will take a lot of hearings and honesty and your THB paid to your lawyers to reach this point. I don't project any success for you if you follow a litigation or a contentious path.

3. Rather than waste your money with lawyers straight off by seeking to fight, try first to reach an accommodation with the new buyer. You have some very strong points :

a. As you are being offered a new lease, it may be the new owner would (as has been suggested) want a good tenant for a long term with a nearly guaranteed income. Find out what the owner wants, state your needs, and get all the details and numbers fully understood. Then, write out a summary of your understanding and get the current owner to agree to the understanding as the basis for drafting a lease between the two of you.

b. If the lease is to be for more than three years, get the owner to agree to register the lease with the appropriate land office. Get a copy of that registration and keep it safe. He may ask you to pay the full fee; you can try to negotiate sharing the fee as the registration benefits you both. But he may not want to disclose the rent that must be done in making a registration; he would have income tax consequences and you can not ever know what percentage he would pay. If he is willing to accept his own tax burden, you will be well served.

c. If he registers your lease or not, consider making a Special Reciprocal lease for up to 30 years with the right to renew in the final year if you think that will help you have a more peaceful rental. This permits you to make certain renovations and repairs at your cost (and leaves other normal repairs for the the owner to make), but know that your renovations pass to the owner when you leave. However, such a lease gives you the opportunity to show the added value you are giving to the owner for granting you a long term lease.

d. You cannot force the owner to register the lease, but if he signs a special reciprocal lease for more than 3 years, you can post a lovely sign in clear view of the road that gives actual notice of your lease and rights for all to see who look at the property. He should not object to such a sign (see insert) for arguably the sign provides actual notice of your lease, there is no need to disclose the rent, and the sign as acutal notice should be better than the Registration that provides only constructive notice. Better yet, it is not reasonable to presume or argue that a buyer or renter for value would fail to look at the property either himself or through his agent. Under the law of agency, knowledge to the real estate agent is the same as if the owner had such knowledge.

4. Don’t be cheap! If you are happy with your home and want to stay for 8 + years, recognize you will need to pay more than you did 8 years ago, but then too, the THB is not very strong today and you may even get away with a fixed rent for the term you seek. You might want to consider a modest rent escalator to make the deal more sweet: perhaps an increase of 0.5 % annually for the first years and then up or down from there… whichever way the talks take you.

5. Never forget we are guests here. It is far better to make a friend of a land lord to help you to have an ideal tenancy. The landlord also wants a good tenant who will pay rent on time and even make some repairs or improvements to help retain the value of the property.

Good luck to you.

Very imformative post.

Reality is, as a landlord, if someone wanting to rent from me said all the above ....I would respond by saying "Thank-you, BUT no Thank-you"! Sounds like nothing but trouble down the road. Reason being, as a landlord, I am in control. If the tenant wants to be in control ....go out and buy a house!

That being said, as said, very imformative post and if a prospective tenant can get away with that ...more power to him (no pun intended)

As for the OP ....good luck .

[KittenKong]

Attempting to obtain money that you are rightfully owed is not extortion. The OP paid the rent in good faith to the ex-owner who was clearly deliberately out to defraud him. He is due a refund of his final rent payment and deposit (if any), and any legal means are good to this end. Denouncing tax fraud is legal.

As for the new owner, he can charge what he likes (with due notice) and if the OP doesn't want to pay it then he can move.

OP is due nothing! He paid rent for 18 months to the old owner. Got value for his money! New owner is NOT asking for him to double pay. Post was vague but either old owner forwarded the money to new owner OR as previously said old owner took out a loan (gave chanote as collateral) ..

But trying to get money out of the old owner by threatening to turn him over to the tax authories is extortion as he is NOT rightfully entitled to the money!

If you carefully read the OPs comments you will note that he has paid rental to the previous owner for periods during which he was no longer the owner of the property, and the previous owner did not tell him about the change or refund his money or pass it on to the new owner to whom it rightfully belongs.

So based on that the previous owner has obtained the money by deception and as such there can be no extortion if the OP attempts to retrieve it. Reporting the previous owner to the tax authorities (and the police) would be entirely justified and the OP should do so.

All the above assumes that the facts are as the OP reports, of course.

[beachproperty]

Attempting to obtain money that you are rightfully owed is not extortion. The OP paid the rent in good faith to the ex-owner who was clearly deliberately out to defraud him. He is due a refund of his final rent payment and deposit (if any), and any legal means are good to this end. Denouncing tax fraud is legal.

As for the new owner, he can charge what he likes (with due notice) and if the OP doesn't want to pay it then he can move.

OP is due nothing! He paid rent for 18 months to the old owner. Got value for his money! New owner is NOT asking for him to double pay. Post was vague but either old owner forwarded the money to new owner OR as previously said old owner took out a loan (gave chanote as collateral) ..

But trying to get money out of the old owner by threatening to turn him over to the tax authories is extortion as he is NOT rightfully entitled to the money!

If you carefully read the OPs comments you will note that he has paid rental to the previous owner for periods during which he was no longer the owner of the property, and the previous owner did not tell him about the change or refund his money or pass it on to the new owner to whom it rightfully belongs.

So based on that the previous owner has obtained the money by deception and as such there can be no extortion if the OP attempts to retrieve it. Reporting the previous owner to the tax authorities (and the police) would be entirely justified and the OP should do so.

All the above assumes that the facts are as the OP reports, of course.

BUT OP has reported nothing as the way you have assumed he did!

AND if you read OP's comments even MORE carefully you will see that actually no proof of ownership has been provided to OP, an agreement of sale .Yes BUT no chanote. ALSO it appears that the new owner is NOT looking to get back that previously paid 18 months (why? probably because he didn't own the property yet ....maybe a "contract of sale" which is an agreement to sell for payments and when all payments are paid ...title passes)

So why are you so persistant in proving that the prior owner is perpatrating a fraud. OP has provided nothing to support such an assertion only YOU have come to that conclusion, all based on assumptions for which no facts have been provided......good luck with that!

Edited October 10, 2014 by beachproperty

[Maestro]

... I am just interested to know whether such a contract automatically ends at the moment of a legal transfer of ownership and if a landlord needs to inform the tenant of such change.

The answer to these questions should be somewhere in the Civil and Commercial Code. See if you can find them.

[2beornot2be]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Attempting to obtain money that you are rightfully owed is not extortion. The OP paid the rent in good faith to the ex-owner who was clearly deliberately out to defraud him. He is due a refund of his final rent payment and deposit (if any), and any legal means are good to this end. Denouncing tax fraud is legal.

As for the new owner, he can charge what he likes (with due notice) and if the OP doesn't want to pay it then he can move.

OP is due nothing! He paid rent for 18 months to the old owner. Got value for his money! New owner is NOT asking for him to double pay. Post was vague but either old owner forwarded the money to new owner OR as previously said old owner took out a loan (gave chanote as collateral) ..

But trying to get money out of the old owner by threatening to turn him over to the tax authories is extortion as he is NOT rightfully entitled to the money!

If you carefully read the OPs comments you will note that he has paid rental to the previous owner for periods during which he was no longer the owner of the property, and the previous owner did not tell him about the change or refund his money or pass it on to the new owner to whom it rightfully belongs.

So based on that the previous owner has obtained the money by deception and as such there can be no extortion if the OP attempts to retrieve it. Reporting the previous owner to the tax authorities (and the police) would be entirely justified and the OP should do so.

All the above assumes that the facts are as the OP reports, of course.

BUT OP has reported nothing as the way you have assumed he did!

AND if you read OP's comments even MORE carefully you will see that actually no proof of ownership has been provided to OP, an agreement of sale .Yes BUT no chanote. ALSO it appears that the new owner is NOT looking to get back that previously paid 18 months (why? probably because he didn't own the property yet ....maybe a "contract of sale" which is an agreement to sell for payments and when all payments are paid ...title passes)

So why are you so persistant in proving that the prior owner is perpatrating a fraud. OP has provided nothing to support such an assertion only YOU have come to that conclusion, all based on assumptions for which no facts have been provided......good luck with that! alt=w00t.gif>

Please don't confuse the facts:

1) The new owner did indeed present a "chanote" (land title), dated 24. September 2014, proving his ownership when I first met him on 8th October 2014

2) He informed me of the changes *after* I had paid the rent for October into old owner's bank-account (paid 1st October 2014)

3) He agreed to get his money back from my old landlord, no issue for me here

5) He informally told me that my old landlord owed him a substantial amount of money, apparently rent paid by me into old owners bank account for several months. Again no issue for me here.

[beachproperty]

Please don't confuse the facts:

1) The new owner did indeed present a "chanote" (land title), dated 24. September 2014, proving his ownership when I first met him on 8th October 2014

2) He informed me of the changes *after* I had paid the rent for October into old owner's bank-account (paid 1st October 2014)

3) He agreed to get his money back from my old landlord, no issue for me here

5) He informally told me that my old landlord owed him a substantial amount of money, apparently rent paid by me into old owners bank account for several months. Again no issue for me here.

Well OP, the facts would not have been confused if you had said the above in your original post. Instead of saying he presented a "chanote", you said He produced documents showing that he signed a sell/buy contract with my former Landlord some 18 months(!) ago

So if there is any confusion its because you have promoted it without clarifying it when written about by other posters.

Thanks for clarifying the situation 78 posts later!

Hope you are more clear in presenting your situation to the new owner. Good Luck!

PS ...KittenKong you were right apparently

Edited October 10, 2014 by beachproperty

[wabothai]

Rule 1: don't get in an argument with a thai, you always lose.

2: in financial matters only trust yourself

[wabothai]

Have peace of mind and move !

[harrry]

Attempting to obtain money that you are rightfully owed is not extortion. The OP paid the rent in good faith to the ex-owner who was clearly deliberately out to defraud him. He is due a refund of his final rent payment and deposit (if any), and any legal means are good to this end. Denouncing tax fraud is legal.

As for the new owner, he can charge what he likes (with due notice) and if the OP doesn't want to pay it then he can move.

OP is due nothing! He paid rent for 18 months to the old owner. Got value for his money! New owner is NOT asking for him to double pay. Post was vague but either old owner forwarded the money to new owner OR as previously said old owner took out a loan (gave chanote as collateral) ..

But trying to get money out of the old owner by threatening to turn him over to the tax authories is extortion as he is NOT rightfully entitled to the money!

If you carefully read the OPs comments you will note that he has paid rental to the previous owner for periods during which he was no longer the owner of the property, and the previous owner did not tell him about the change or refund his money or pass it on to the new owner to whom it rightfully belongs.

So based on that the previous owner has obtained the money by deception and as such there can be no extortion if the OP attempts to retrieve it. Reporting the previous owner to the tax authorities (and the police) would be entirely justified and the OP should do so.

All the above assumes that the facts are as the OP reports, of course.

The original owner was still the owner until September 14 as the new owner did not own the property until that date. He had offered to buy but he could not own it till it was registered so the rent was paid to the correct person.

[KittenKong]

The original owner was still the owner until September 14 as the new owner did not own the property until that date. He had offered to buy but he could not own it till it was registered so the rent was paid to the correct person.

I was talking about the payment made on October 1, which apparently was paid to the wrong person (though the OP didn't know at the time that the property had a new owner).

From what the OP now says the new owner doesn't seem interested in pursuing the OP for the rent money in question, which is good news for the OP, and so the discussion is all rather pointless. Even so the old owner appears to be dishonest and so personally I would report him out of principle; dishonest people should be made to suffer and that's all there is to it.

[easybullet3]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Without a written contract things could be a lot worse. At least the new owner is giving you some time. Your best bet is to try to negotiate with the new owner and come to a happy medium. Your biggest bargaining point here is you are a good renter. Something landlords want more than anything. It puts you in a good position Good luck

Why in the world would you even think, without a lease, that the landlord has to inform you of anything

First: It's a question of good manners, isn't it?

Second: Talking open and fair could help to avoid a lot of problems and/or misunderstandings.

Third: Even without a written lease-contract, you have in fact a contract with certain mutual rights and obligations.

For instance: The Landlord can not just end that contract at his own will.

If he wants you to move out and you refuse, he needs to get a court order.

He might not want to do that in order to avoid an investigation into tax fraud.

I believe that's what happened in my case...

I agree that you should NEGOTIATE.

From my experience with landlords in Thailand, they seem to 'forget' that if you leave, and they need to find a New Tenant, their property will be EMPTY for 1 month maybe.

Actually, I have often seen rooms unoccupied for several months.. All because they wanted more rent and the tenant moved out.

in every case (100% of the time), the landlord LOST a whole load of money because they had no one paying any rent to them.

if your rent is 12,000, then she will lose 12,000 baht.

if the landlordis trying to put up your rent by 2,000 / month, then it will take them half a year to 'get back' this "lost month".

if you think that the price they are asking is 'fair' then the landlord will probably have no problem to get a new tenant.

if they are asking way above market value, then I can guarantee that their room will be EMPTY for months.. (and depending on the pride of the new owner, they will eventually lower their price.. else they will stubbornly end up with no tenants and no money).

my OLD room was Vacant after 1 year after this same situation !!!! the landlord was too proud to admit that her pricing was high.. and thus got no tenant for a year!!! she will NEVER recover that kind of money.

PS: good luck explaining simple logical maths to a proud landlord.. 555

PPS: there is nothing wrong in the owner selling the house without your knowledge. As long as they dont just kick you out !! you just switch paying rent to the new owner. and it is perfectly acceptable for an existing landlord or new landlord to ask more money and a new contract.. its UP TO YOU if you wanna accept it or not.

PPPS: you said they need a court order to get you evicted. actually,, in thailand,, they just stick a lock on your door when you are out and they dont let you back in until you pay them. this is not a law-abiding country where things go accoring to law. they just do as they want, and if you have a problem you need to go through a long-winded legal process (maybe months) to get them to follow the law.

also: you can always break off one of their locks... but i dont advice this,, coz maybe they pay someone to 'throw you out' !!

[2beornot2be]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The original owner was still the owner until September 14 as the new owner did not own the property until that date. He had offered to buy but he could not own it till it was registered so the rent was paid to the correct person.

I was talking about the payment made on October 1, which apparently was paid to the wrong person (though the OP didn't know at the time that the property had a new owner).

From what the OP now says the new owner doesn't seem interested in pursuing the OP for the rent money in question, which is good news for the OP, and so the discussion is all rather pointless. Even so the old owner appears to be dishonest and so personally I would report him out of principle; dishonest people should be made to suffer and that's all there is to it.

Thank you very much, KittenKong. You are absolutely right and you seem to have fully understood what was going on. I sincerely apologize for the confusion I might have caused by not clarifying, in my original post, that the new owner produced *two* documents 1) a buy/sell contract (dating back 18 months) and 2) a land title "chanote" to prove his ownership.

As for the old owner, I am not interested in any revenge, I'd only like to know what made her lie to me. Isn't it strange that the new owner - until this very day - never inspected the property he bought? Now, would you ever buy a house in "blind trust?" Could there be a backdoor-agreement of some kind?

[Canada]

Move. Things starting to go strange in Thailand usually don't stop going that direction. Renters have little rights and legal fights can often go bad, with Thais losing face and needing to save face.

Move.

[KittenKong]

As for the old owner, I am not interested in any revenge, I'd only like to know what made her lie to me. Isn't it strange that the new owner - until this very day - never inspected the property he bought? Now, would you ever buy a house in "blind trust?" Could there be a backdoor-agreement of some kind?

It certainly all sounds a bit odd to me, but many people here (not just Thais) often seem to be prepared to go to extreme lengths to extract the last Baht they possibly can from anything.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Kiss your damage deposit good bye!

Find a new place.

Your money is gone no matter what you do now.

[lucifer666]

Tell the new owner that the new rent is far too much and look for something new. Make sure the new owner knows this, ( I suspect the new owner is just trying their luck with rich Farang and will lower their prices when you refuse to play ball)

[F4UCorsair]

I haven't read the entire thread, and this may have been canvassed, so.........

Are you sure this 'new owner' really has bought the property? Have you contacted the owner from whom you rented and clarified that?

This guy may just be an opportunist who is trying you on. You pay rent to his account for a couple of months before the 'old' owner realizes she's not being paid, and then you have to pay the old/real owner.

It would seem that paying the same owner from whom you rented, and her forwarding it to a new owner, is irregular/unusual at best.

As for renter's rights, forget it. TiT!! You don't need a visit from 'the boys'.

I wouldn't give this Rsole, if he is in fact the new owner, any satisfaction and find a place elsewhere to live. He has given you plenty of notice to resolve the issue.

Edited October 10, 2014 by F4UCorsair