Suspects in Koh Tao backpacker murders retract confessions, says official

[metisdead]

An off topic deflection post has been removed as well as a reply.

[mataleo]

Open letter

[Krataiboy]

Some additional questions I haven't seen answered: 1 Where did the hoe come from that just happened to be lying around? How did it get on the beach from a garden or wherever it was being used. Was the hoe tested for prints before being manhandled by half the police force? If so, have they tried to match them to those of the accused or anyone else? How is nobody in the bungalows 30 meters or so away reported hearing anything of the murder and mayhem in the week small hours? The Brits apparently put up a fight and there must have been a lot screaming, shouting etc.

[abitmiffed]

Maybe the UK government is stirring:

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/thailand/safety-and-security

"Western tourists including British nationals have been victims of vicious, unprovoked attacks by individuals and gangs in Koh Samui, Koh Phangan and Koh Tao (the Samui archipelago)"

TAT is going to love this!

After reading that would you come here? Wish yhqt was out 10yrs ago i would be somewhere else.

[spidermike007]

Beautiful revelation. We all knew they were innocent as the day is long. The entire world knows who the guilty party is. Since he, and his family are above the law, and even the Army does not to rock the boat on any significant level, they were framed. Now, they realize that the confessions that were beaten out of them are going to lead to them being crucified, and they have recanted. Good on them. Lets see where this all leads. I am afraid regardless of their confession, or the recantment, it will not lead to the guilty party being arrested, as this case has proven some people are above the law.

[SteveFong]

Maybe the UK government is stirring:

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/thailand/safety-and-security

"Western tourists including British nationals have been victims of vicious, unprovoked attacks by individuals and gangs in Koh Samui, Koh Phangan and Koh Tao (the Samui archipelago)"

TAT is going to love this!

WOW,

they even mention this case,

If ASEAN chimes in, the General will be forced to act, maybe even close up that entire island for a few years

[TTom911]

There are "booking.com" links on EVERY post here (just as an example). In the light of recent events, travel agencies should be FLOODED with requests to NOT sell any packages on Koh Tao (to start with). And then business owners/thai people should sue their government for damages. Easy case to prove if, while tourists are slaughtered and killers are protected, government officials openly declare their satisfaction with the corse and outcome of the RTP "investigation"...

Edited October 11, 2014 by TTom911

[ParadiseLost]

Beautiful revelation. We all knew they were innocent as the day is long. The entire world knows who the guilty party is. Since he, and his family are above the law, and even the Army does not to rock the boat on any significant level, they were framed. Now, they realize that the confessions that were beaten out of them are going to lead to them being crucified, and they have recanted. Good on them. Lets see where this all leads. I am afraid regardless of their confession, or the recantment, it will not lead to the guilty party being arrested, as this case has proven some people are above the law.

I doubt the Army 'knew' what happened and were complicit - more likely they were given false information from day one. There is no way they would protect these low-life rats, if they had evidence of a cover-up.

My only hope is that after so nearly being exposed, the real murderous, raping animals will hesitate before taking advantage of innocents again - but I doubt that somehow. It probably only serves to reinforce their grand delusions of being 'special' and above the law - truly untouchable.

There will now most likely be a concerted damage control exercise and the cover-up will be covered up.

[Number 3]

CSI LA Working again this morning. Must have just been busy last night, not blocked.

Happy to report back up for me too.

[boomerangutang]

Some additional questions I haven't seen answered:

1. Where did the hoe come from that just happened to be lying around? 2. How did it get on the beach from a garden or wherever it was being used? To me, those questions are not so important. Heavy old hoes are common wherever locals do hoeing: garden patches, paths, etc.

3. Was the hoe tested for prints before being manhandled by half the police force? 4. If so, have they tried to match them to those of the accused or anyone else? Apparently, no prints or blood (other than Hannah's) were found on the hoe. It's sounds unlikely, but that's what our honest cops reported.

5. How is nobody in the bungalows 30 meters or so away reported hearing anything of the murder and mayhem in the week small hours? The Brits apparently put up a fight and there must have been a lot screaming, shouting etc.

They may have been vacant, or heavy sleepers, or inured to late night carousing at that scenic bit of beach at wee hours. Or there could have been Thais in those bungalos. If so, then Thais can tune out any noise, no matter how loud or pleading, and can readily turn away from strangers in distress.

I doubt the Army 'knew' what happened and were complicit - more likely they were given false information from day one.

There will now most likely be a concerted damage control exercise and the cover-up will be covered up.

I don't agree with your first sentence, but agree with your 2nd.

[Number 3]

Beautiful revelation. We all knew they were innocent as the day is long. The entire world knows who the guilty party is. Since he, and his family are above the law, and even the Army does not to rock the boat on any significant level, they were framed. Now, they realize that the confessions that were beaten out of them are going to lead to them being crucified, and they have recanted. Good on them. Lets see where this all leads. I am afraid regardless of their confession, or the recantment, it will not lead to the guilty party being arrested, as this case has proven some people are above the law.

I doubt the Army 'knew' what happened and were complicit - more likely they were given false information from day one. There is no way they would protect these low-life rats, if they had evidence of a cover-up.

My only hope is that after so nearly being exposed, the real murderous, raping animals will hesitate before taking advantage of innocents again - but I doubt that somehow. It probably only serves to reinforce their grand delusions of being 'special' and above the law - truly untouchable.

There will now most likely be a concerted damage control exercise and the cover-up will be covered up.

They did know and felt the final "reward" for the coppers speech would announce the swift end to the whole affair.

If you are unaware of how high this goes I suggest you reread the posts outlining the family tree of involvement

I know people in Samui and KT and it is the same story as told to me on day two. They all knew and were afraid to be the citizens they all wanted to be.

[DennisF]

Sean McdontaskmeiknownothingImasinnocentasthedrivensnow stated:

Anyone with half a brain knows it would always be blamed on the Burmese

That settles it then, the BiB have half a brain ( collectively).

[TTom911]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

With some notable exceptions, Thai police are generally poorly educated and not very bright but their careers start with paying bribes to pass the police entrance exams. Those who get promoted to regional commands continue this trend but must also be aggressive and hungry with proven track records of passing enough money up the pyramids. They have to pay for plum jobs, followed by monthly fixed retainers. Jobs in tourist resorts are especially lucrative and command a premium. It is said that the Pattaya police chief job is worth B20 million a month in gross income before payment of the fixed retainer, so you can imagine how much the upfront premium might be for that job. Koh Tao and Koh Phangnan, which supervises Koh Tao, are not in the league of Pattaya, Phuket and Samui but they must also be lucrative posts. In addition to the daily crime busting work seen by the public police have responsibility to supervise a number of important businesses in partnership with local mafias, including protection rackets, illegal aliens, taxi scams smuggling of licquor, tobacco and oil, drug distribution, illegal lotteries and other forms of gambling, forest reserve encroachment, distribution of illegal cut wood etc etc.

Can you wonder that they are cosy with local mafias and resent being forced to do regular police work along with the intrusion of social media in their perfect little world?

An excellent post; those of us from West, if perhaps not exactly enamoured of the police in our own countries, at least expect a certain standard of selection, training and professionalism. In general nepotism and what one could call secular simony - payment for favours - are absent - a position of any authority has to be earned. By contrast, not just the RTP but almost any perceived lucrative profession in Thailand has the potential to be bought or 'donated'. Little wonder then at the mess that has been and continues to be made of this desperately sad murder investigation.

And it's not only the RTP, all Thai ministries are staffed by incapable people at all levels and it shows. Thailand is not moving forward on many fronts because of this factor. This is why I hope that one specific reform will be absolutely focused on this point, making nepotism and payment for promotions highly illegal and install regulations which state that promotion is based purely on the proven capability to do the higher job and specific previous high performance. And total reorganization of entrance exams, example entry exam for RTP conducted by an outside body with zero police involvement.

It will of course need a mechanism to make any new regulations work and to lock them into place. That could be through a six monthly review process whereby say 40% of all promotions, selected at random by an independent body must show, to that body, full evidence / proof that the promotions selected were based on the new criteria and with the independent body interviewing various people involved. Plus severe punishment for all people caught still engaging in this process.

Sure this is a lot of work but without something like this nothing will change.

EVERYBODY with eyes open knows that in ANY tourist destination in Thailand

- there is not a single beer you drink

- not a single taxi ride you take

- not a single night you sleep in a hotel bed

- not as single t-shirt you buy

- not a single sun bed on any beach (until they existed, that is...)

- and not a single property being developed (with mostly "illegal" foreign workers) anywhere in Thailand

without officials filling their pockets. It happens everywhere, 24/7, over decades, and it does not seem to change in any serious way.

The only good in this disastrous case in Koh Tao is that things were handled so obviously flawed that this time, with the world watching, they may not be able to cover it up anymore.

Any if they DO manage to cover it up in can only happen because "we" (their Thai compatriots, foreign governments, tourists and us TV members) just keep quite at the end and LET them get away with it. It's too much out there for them being able to sweep it under the carpet, I believe. They would need "our help"...

It wouldn't be easy in any way, but this blatant disaster can become a game changer, IF people want. And if not, then "we" just get what we deserve... and come back moaning next time...

LET'S SEE...

Edited October 11, 2014 by TTom911

[Number 3]

Some additional questions I haven't seen answered:

1. Where did the hoe come from that just happened to be lying around? 2. How did it get on the beach from a garden or wherever it was being used? To me, those questions are not so important. Heavy old hoes are common wherever locals do hoeing: garden patches, paths, etc.

3. Was the hoe tested for prints before being manhandled by half the police force? 4. If so, have they tried to match them to those of the accused or anyone else? Apparently, no prints or blood (other than Hannah's) were found on the hoe. It's sounds unlikely, but that's what our honest cops reported.

5. How is nobody in the bungalows 30 meters or so away reported hearing anything of the murder and mayhem in the week small hours? The Brits apparently put up a fight and there must have been a lot screaming, shouting etc.

They may have been vacant, or heavy sleepers, or inured to late night carousing at that scenic bit of beach at wee hours. Or there could have been Thais in those bungalos. If so, then Thais can tune out any noise, no matter how loud or pleading, and can readily turn away from strangers in distress.

I doubt the Army 'knew' what happened and were complicit - more likely they were given false information from day one.

There will now most likely be a concerted damage control exercise and the cover-up will be covered up.

I don't agree with your first sentence, but agree with your 2nd.

You may find David heard. He was with Sean and they both went originally to inspect what was going on. Sean was the fortunate chap sent to run for help only once away and covered in blood he was advised by the local, who cleaned him up, to stay mum and lay low. Can't blame the chap for that cowardly decision. He knew the family capabilities as he had witnesses them before. I can blame him for his actions now that three Burmese lives are in the line of fire every minute of every day. Second chance at redemption ? Or remain stumm. Personal recommendation is to do the right thing as this event will never leave your soul, no matter how many things you inject smoke or drink.

[SteveFong]

It is already in the hands of a growing list of foreign journalists, and has reached the UK Govt and Burma Gov't

what do you propose exactly we all do that has not been done?

[TTom911]

It is already in the hands of a growing list of foreign journalists, and has reached the UK Govt and Burma Gov't

what do you propose exactly we all do that has not been done?

if just a fraction of people who love Thailand show their respect and love by paying Koh Tao a little visit, have a nice and peaceful sit on the beach, play the guitar and sing along together, maybe ignoring some of the "unpopular" bars... could be a busy place all of a sudden...

[abitmiffed]

Just a thought...were the 2 in custody given any cigarettes to smoke during the interogation?? If yes what brand?

[DennisF]

It is already in the hands of a growing list of foreign journalists, and has reached the UK Govt and Burma Gov't

what do you propose exactly we all do that has not been done?

if just a fraction of people who love Thailand show their respect and love by paying Koh Tao a little visit, have a nice and peaceful sit on the beach, play the guitar and sing along together, maybe ignoring some of the "unpopular" bars... could be a busy place all of a sudden...

What an idiotic suggestion,

If indeed people followed this suggestion many would want drinks, food etc etc..the profits of which

the so called headsmans family gets a cut.

Show respect and love for what?? 2 innocents were butchered there &lt;deleted&gt;.

Perhaps you should return to the 60's for some peace and love.

Fool.

[TTom911]

It is already in the hands of a growing list of foreign journalists, and has reached the UK Govt and Burma Gov't

what do you propose exactly we all do that has not been done?

if just a fraction of people who love Thailand show their respect and love by paying Koh Tao a little visit, have a nice and peaceful sit on the beach, play the guitar and sing along together, maybe ignoring some of the "unpopular" bars... could be a busy place all of a sudden...

What an idiotic suggestion,

If indeed people followed this suggestion many would want drinks, food etc etc..the profits of which

the so called headsmans family gets a cut.

Show respect and love for what?? 2 innocents were butchered there <deleted>.

Perhaps you should return to the 60's for some peace and love.

Fool.

you simply don't get the picture (no further comments to your language...)... emphasis, in case I was too subtle for your short-wired brain, is on "could be a busy place all of a sudden" if that should make it any easier to spark your limited imagination.......................

[Commerce]

I think many are writing off the General a bit early.

They may be right but his job is a big one and he said before the coup that soldiers do not make good politicians.

He is in a job now that has had a very steep learning curve and he is still on it. Of course he has to defend his police force regardless

of his personal views.

How much of the speculation regarding this case is true, we have no idea, how close the theories are, we do not know.

There is only clear evidence of incompetence and a suspicion of corruption.

A lot of posters on TV, me included, gave a sigh of relief at the coup and welcomed the General as a potential new

broom with a sweeping agenda.

To date all he has been able to do is chip at the surface of corruption, nothing substantial has changed and no people

of influence have been affected adversely.

Perhaps now he has realised that only a dramatic intervention in the systems here will bring real change.

This case has highlighted many failures in the system and importantly highlighted what the rest of the World sees as one of the

most incompetent and corrupt policing systems imaginable.

If he has the will there is always a way, we just do not know what is happening behind the scenes, but I think we can

be certain there is a serious damage control agenda now.

Sadly, this will not bring back the unfortunate couple so brutally slain but maybe prevent other tourists suffering

the same fate.

The influence of local headmen and families may well be on the agenda for change. They are the bottom of the pecking order regarding

real wealth and therefore expendable.

We shall see but dont write off the General yet, its too early for that.

"He is in a job now that has had a very steep learning curve and he is still on it. Of course he has to defend his police force regardless

of his personal views."

Sorry, but you are very wrong there. He might be on a steep learning curve, but one does not make public statements about something one knows little about. That is very simple, and he should have deflected, instead of answering something he should, and could, not have.

As for his chipping at the surface of corruption?? He's Thai. Do you know his personal asset worth? He's written off already anything that is presumed not to involve corruption. Very poor and amateur display indeed.

[Number 3]

It is already in the hands of a growing list of foreign journalists, and has reached the UK Govt and Burma Gov't

what do you propose exactly we all do that has not been done?

Great question actually. I think it's time to drag out other murder suicides attacks rapes in Thailand and especially around those islands and start drawing attention to the violent undercurrent here as a much larger issue than what it is. Only yesterday another UK family came out with their sons story also HIGHLY suspiciously in Koh Tao.

There are without doubt more and I myself have read with great interest a small amount about a few such victims victims on ADs site. They assist in illustrating the police and the governments deliberate mishandling of foreigners battling justice in a corrupt Thai system. A total inquest on this is required now.

[StealthEnergiser]

It is very possible that people like Sean have been used by the thais to convice ladies into partying with them and then rapes have occured like the two canadian back packers mentioned by another poster.

this mafia son looks very involved and may not want to give DNA due other unsolved crimes.

Thailand deserves all they get until mafia prescence is taken away from alll tourist spots.

Jet ski mafia are another lot that commit many crimes and they are still on the beaches many have criminal backgrounds.

The police are much to blame but when you corrupt politicians are controlling them it makes it very hard to prosecute.

I hope the Junta takes control for 5 years not two as it is not enough time to clean this mess up .

[Docno]

"Thailand’s most prominent forensic investigator has questioned why an expert in the area was not used to collect samples following the discovery on 15 September of the murdered Britons, Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, on Koh Tao island."

So are they saying the DNA evidence is not valid?

That looks to me like what what the lady effectively just said yes.

i dont see how it can be anything than invalid if it wasnt handled under strict expert forensic supervision when collected

True - but keep in mind that the results of the DNA analysis ended leaving mud on the faces of the RTP after earlier suggestions that the suspect(s) were western foreigners; the DNA samples established that they were in fact Asian. So either the samples, for all the unprofessional handling, are still valid, or the police hadn't thought through the storyline they wanted to go with.

Beyond that, I'm never sure what to make of Khun Pornthip. She sometimes comes across as committed and capable, but she also continued to defend those GT200 detectors (claimed to detect both bombs and dead bodies!) after most declared them to be a scam, and she seems like a bit of a publicity hound.

[Docno]

As I see it, the DNA samples should be taken from the accused and sent to the same Singapore lab where the crime scene samples were tested. When I had my DNA tested for ancestry and medical data, I had to provide a test-tube amount of saliva which was sent by courier to the US. Such an amount of material could not be faked/contaminated to match the crime scene samples. The Singapore lab would extract the suspects' DNA from this 'large' sample and match it against the data they already have in their system. If a match comes back, there would have been no way to fake it (unless the RTP had these particular individuals in their sights at the very start of the investigation). If there is not a match, there would be no credible way to maintain the current police claims.

[heyexile]

As I see it, the DNA samples should be taken from the accused and sent to the same Singapore lab where the crime scene samples were tested. When I had my DNA tested for ancestry and medical data, I had to provide a test-tube amount of saliva which was sent by courier to the US. Such an amount of material could not be faked/contaminated to match the crime scene samples. The Singapore lab would extract the suspects' DNA from this 'large' sample and match it against the data they already have in their system. If a match comes back, there would have been no way to fake it (unless the RTP had these particular individuals in their sights at the very start of the investigation). If there is not a match, there would be no credible way to maintain the current police claims.

Again? There is NO mystery SINGAPORE LAB.

Misinformation from police to excuse refusing FBI help.

Name Lab? When sent? Results? Mention in Singapore press? etc etc

[Number 3]

As I see it, the DNA samples should be taken from the accused and sent to the same Singapore lab where the crime scene samples were tested. When I had my DNA tested for ancestry and medical data, I had to provide a test-tube amount of saliva which was sent by courier to the US. Such an amount of material could not be faked/contaminated to match the crime scene samples. The Singapore lab would extract the suspects' DNA from this 'large' sample and match it against the data they already have in their system. If a match comes back, there would have been no way to fake it (unless the RTP had these particular individuals in their sights at the very start of the investigation). If there is not a match, there would be no credible way to maintain the current police claims.

Again? There is NO mystery SINGAPORE LAB.

Misinformation from police to excuse refusing FBI help.

Name Lab? When sent? Results? Mention in Singapore press? etc etc

Inside information confirms no Singapore lab.

Pornthip stepping in to this picture, I am told, was precipitated by definite knowledge that there was no Singapore involvement in the DNA side. Hence her discussions with media on improper DNA handling.

Pornthip will do what she is told to a point but on this information received it seems she was no longer prepared to tow the line.

Publicity hound at times yes, however a super sleuth at others no ?

[jdinasia]

"inside information" "I am told"...

You mean rumors...

[MikePhuket1970]

Maybe the UK government is stirring:

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/thailand/safety-and-security

"Western tourists including British nationals have been victims of vicious, unprovoked attacks by individuals and gangs in Koh Samui, Koh Phangan and Koh Tao (the Samui archipelago)"

TAT is going to love this!

Its reading like to enter a war zone and not a holiday place.

This should be good enough to make people think twice before comming to thailand.

One copy to TAT please

[ParadiseLost]

It is very possible that people like Sean have been used by the thais to convice ladies into partying with them and then rapes have occured like the two canadian back packers mentioned by another poster.

Unless I am mistaken, the two 'Canadian girls' originated from a one line fictitious 'taunt' made by a poster here.

Sean is the key: all it would take is one photo of him dated between 9 and 15 September, showing his right forearm. Either there is a wound and he is telling the truth, or...

He worked at Karma bar; there were some interesting comments posted on their FB page, starting with a post showing the time as 01:36 on the 15th - which is most likely UTC so it would be 08:36.

Note his later 'update' where he seems to give too much detailed info (considering the time) where a normal post would surely be expressing horror, disbelief and anger, and he should surely not already know what happened?

Edited October 11, 2014 by ParadiseLost

[Number 3]

"inside information" "I am told"...

You mean rumors...

I mean inside information c/o a Bangkok Police official.

A rumour I would suggest is quite different to inside information no?