Fatty Liver

[N47HAN]

Jsut to repost as my reply may be lost in the above post.

Maybe Im misunderstanding something ?

To detox also is a means to help clean the liver and reduce its workload on clearing toxins.

Lose weight= fat = fat also within the liver ?

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[chiang mai]

Jsut to repost as my reply may be lost in the above post.

Maybe Im misunderstanding something ?

To detox also is a means to help clean the liver and reduce its workload on clearing toxins.

Lose weight= fat = fat also within the liver ?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No, detox means to detoxify or remove poison, not really related to weight loss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detoxification

And from experience of weight loss in the case of fatty liver, from experience, you need to loose about ten per cent of your body weight to avert metabolic syndrome, of which fatty liver is an element.

EDIT: It may help you understand better if you read this link, please note the reference to NAFL and waste size.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/metabolic-syndrome/basics/symptoms/con-20027243

Edited October 15, 2014 by chiang mai

[SICHONSTEVE]

Jsut to repost as my reply may be lost in the above post.

Maybe Im misunderstanding something ?

To detox also is a means to help clean the liver and reduce its workload on clearing toxins.

Lose weight= fat = fat also within the liver ?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You are correct in your actions.

I shall tell you how to get rid of fatty liver.

The first thing you must do is throw out ALL of your cooking oils and replace them with extra virgin coconut oil (no problem cooking with this as it has a high smoke point and is stable to heat). Do the same with your deodorants and make your own with coconut oil/sodium bicarbonate/and corn/potato starch or arrowroot - just type coconut oil and deodorant into a search engine NB: they contains 2 seriously bad toxins ie: parabens and aluminium of which the liver struggles to get rid of. Aluminium is thought to be responsible in part for alzheimers disease and parabens are found in 99% of cancerous breast tumours. Oh!! and it works 24 hours and smells nice (assumes you like the smell of coconut).

Fatty liver normally arises because of impaired liver function. The liver is a seriously busy organ and if it has to spend too much time dealing with a constant bombardment of toxins it cannot deal with the 'bad' fats that end up in or on the outside of the liver.

The best detoxification process you can do is get a lemon squeezer and squeeze half a large lemon or two small lemons and add them to hot (warmish) water and drink this first thing in the morning. This flushes toxins out and allows the liver to go about it's daily business.

If your blood is acidic then that creates a climate for disease. The lemon juice alkalises the body and is the best known thing for doing this.

Other things that help are kefir, coconut water, avoiding simple carbohydrates and consuming refined foods as well as bottled drinks of any kind where possible (especially fruit juices/coke/soda/).

If you are interested in taking supplements then I would recommend 2 - milk thistle and psyllium husks. The whole spectrum of spices are also excellent for your health as well as vegetables, nuts, seeds and 'good' saturated oils.

Getting out in the sun is crucial - about 10 - 15 minutes exposure between mid-day and 3.00 PM is about right. This helps to protect against cancer (including skin cancer).

The type of exercise you do is important - check Dr Mercola on this as he has a number of good articles. Walking on a treadmill is not particularly good for you so you must choose a different form of exercise.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Jsut to repost as my reply may be lost in the above post.

Maybe Im misunderstanding something ?

To detox also is a means to help clean the liver and reduce its workload on clearing toxins.

Lose weight= fat = fat also within the liver ?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No, detox means to detoxify or remove poison, not really related to weight loss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detoxification

And from experience of weight loss in the case of fatty liver, from experience, you need to loose about ten per cent of your body weight to avert metabolic syndrome, of which fatty liver is an element.

EDIT: It may help you understand better if you read this link, please note the reference to NAFL and waste size.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/metabolic-syndrome/basics/symptoms/con-20027243

Carry on with the detox - an impaired liver causes fatty liver and NAFL disease as it cannot deal with the 'bad' fats so easily. Drink freshly squeezed lemon juice in the morning (as mentioned in my previous e-mail) to help the liver function normally.

[Sheryl]

A bit of clarification may help this dispute. Type 1 ( often called juvenile) diabetes is irreversible. It is a failure of the pancreas to produce any insulin and people are usually born with it. Type II (often called adult or mature onset) diabetesis a lifestyle disease. Through long term abuse of lack of proper nutrition and exercise the pancreas is worn out and does one or both of two things. It produces sufficient insulin but it is of poor quality or it produces good quality insulin but insufficient amounts. This results in a cascade of symptoms. If you pull your horns in and improve your lifestyle ie eat food that doesn't demand excessive insulin and at the same time exercise and live a more prudent healthful lifestyle, magic will happen. Your diabetes doesn't disappear but because you don't need as much insulin you become symptomless. The insulin your pancreas can still produce is adequate for your less demanding lifestyle. Be kind to your organs! Help them do their work by not over stressing them!

Lifetsyle (diet, exercise) is a risk factor for type II diabetes but so is a genetic disposition. There are people who have never been at all overweight, always eaten well and gotten enough exercise and yet have type II diabetes. My very slim and fit mother being an example...everyone on her father's side of the family had Type II diabetes and so does she. Conversely there are also people with no family history of the disease but very bad eating habits/history of obesity who develop it. In other words, both poor diet/lack of exercise and genetics are risk factors and the extent to which one or the other or both account for the disease will vary by individual.

Many people with type II diabetes can achieve full control without medications but not all. In addition, the severity of dietary restriction needed varies with the severity of the disease. In some people simply eating sensibly and getting a reasonable amount of exercise is all it takes. In other people extremely rigorous dietary restriction - so rigorous and extreme that very few people could comply with it - would be necessary. In still others even the most extreme and austere regimens is insufficient and they must take medication.

It is as irresponsible to suggest that all people with type II diabetes can control it with lifestyle changes alone as it is to say that all need medication.

In the West lifestyle modifications are the initial treatment of choice, and doctors will usually not prescribe medication until/unless these have failed (whether due to poor compliance by the patient or simply not being sufficient even though followed). In Thailand however there seems to be a general assumption that patients will not follow lifestyle advice (not just re diabetes but many problems) and an immediate leap to medicating. Anyone newly diagnosed with Type II diabetes should understand this and certainly try lifestyle modification first. But it does not follow that they will all be able to avoid medication.

One also has to be realistic. Some people are simply unable or unwilling to make the degree of lifestyle changes that they should. In such cases they are certainly better off using medication and keeping their blood sugars in normal range than failing to control it, and they should not be condemned for this fact.

Now can we please revert to the actual topic, which is not diabetes but fatty liver?

Which, like diabetes and most chronic conditions, has more than one risk factor/cause.

Fatty liver can be due (1) to damage to the liver, usually from alcohol or drugs, but also sometimes from hepatitis; and/or (2) obesity. Depending on the underlying cause, the best treatment is either avoiding alcohol/drugs and/or losing weight.

[chiang mai]

The OP may find this thread of value also:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/768359-best-liver-detox/

[Sheryl]

The OP may find this thread of value also:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/768359-best-liver-detox/

As I read the OP, he does not ask about "detox", just advice re fatty liver finding on ultrasound. He has a hx of hep B, apparently drinks (but unclear how much) and no info was provided on his weight.

[chiang mai]

The OP may find this thread of value also:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/768359-best-liver-detox/

As I read the OP, he does not ask about "detox", just advice re fatty liver finding on ultrasound. He has a hx of hep B, apparently drinks (but unclear how much) and no info was provided on his weight.

Indeed, I supplied the link for informational/educational purposes since the OP was being advised that detox was the way forward and that drinking lemon juice would solve his problem, clearly that is inappropriate.

[N47HAN]

A little detail ,

Im 43 weigh around 85kg height 5'10.

My diet went to pot 15 years ago , never have eaten particularly well.

Alchohol prob average 7-10 small bottles when i go out, normally 4 or 5 times a week.

Therein lies my problems I guess.

Have decided to start a week of detox to help in general health and weight loss.

Starting some light exercise then after the weeks out i guess go back to bkk hodpital and reavulate ?

Sound a good thing to start with ?

If the detox juices are not gonna help let me know because trust me started this morning have 7 bottles a day to drink and by christ they taste <deleted> appaling !!

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[AnotherOneAmerican]

A little detail ,

Im 43 weigh around 85kg height 5'10.

My diet went to pot 15 years ago , never have eaten particularly well.

Alchohol prob average 7-10 small bottles when i go out, normally 4 or 5 times a week.

Therein lies my problems I guess.

Have decided to start a week of detox to help in general health and weight loss.

Starting some light exercise then after the weeks out i guess go back to bkk hodpital and reavulate ?

As I said before Detox is useless, there is no quick fix.

You need to eat less, exercise more and avoid alcohol.

Not for a week, but for the rest of your life.

At 85Kg that makes you about 12Kg overweight, your weight should be somewhere around 70Kg.

[Sheryl]

"Detox" juices are indeed not going to help. However if as part of this "detox" regimen you stop drinking and/or lose weight , that will.

30-50 Thai beers a week (I assume that's what the bottles referred to are) is not healthy.. and chances are it is really a bit more than this, our memories tend to underestimate indulgences of this sort.

In addition, you are slightly overweight with a BMI of 26.9. If you are also out of shape, with little muscle mass, then the problem may be worse than BMI alone indicates. So this too could be a factor.

My recommendation:

Regular exercise, healthy eating (nothing faddish, just common sense) and less alcohol. On the exercise, strive for something you can keep up on a regular basis. Even moderate exercise a few times a week will help if consistent.

No point in re-evaluating in just a week, takes longer than that to correct fatty liver due to obesity or alcohol. More like 6 months.

The health benefits of better diet, regular exercise and less booze will go well beyond just the fatty liver. Will reduce risk for many problems (heart disease, cancer, diabetes etc) and you will feel younger and fitter. So take the ultrasound finding as a useful wake up call and go for some permanent lifestyle changes, you'll be glad you did.

[chiang mai]

I'm going to bet my money on the 7-10 bottles a beer 4/5 times a week as being the problem, cut that out, eat more sensibly and get some exercise and I'm betting you'll have the problem licked. Can I suggest you weigh yourself everyday and monitor your weight downwards.

But it is too ambitious to think you can get rid of fatty liver in one week, even with a strenuous exercise regime you would still need to loose close to ten per cent of your body weight before you started to burn fat from the liver, that means you've got to shed 8 kilo's, the fat surrounding internal organs is generally the last to go.

Do what you will with the detox juice, it's not going to help your particular problem but it's your call, it probably wont do you any harm and the simple act of drinking a liquid will offset the need to eat for a short while since the liquid will make you feel full.

FWIW my regular weight was always about 80 kilo's, when I soared to 90 kilo's for no apparent reason I went on a crash diet of carrots/celery, lean chicken breast, broccoli, spinach etc and I managed to loose about 8 kilo's in a six weeks, that was with running on a treadmill five days a week for 30/45 minutes also.

[N47HAN]

Thanks for the input guys / gals.

So the detox juice is out the window for sure , ive never tasted liquid so bad....

Nothing wrong with it i guess , the ingredients all follow what ive read for a healthy liver but jees... id rather not touch another drop of alcohol in two lifetimes than have a week of only drinking the juice.

I do want to say though the company ( who i havent mentioned in the threads ) seem to be exceptionally knowledgeable and the service has been nothing but excellent so nothing against them in any way.

But dam that juice aint tasting so good. :-(.

Skipping the beer shouldnt be an issue , did it before when had the hep b . Didnt drop a touch for 12 months. So happy to skip it for several more months now.

Have a reason i guess to exercise more so can start with that.

For the diet , have no problem with adjusting to healthier stuff , but my cooking extends to fried stuff so better take the wife on a nice shopping trip in return for her cooking me some decent meals.

Hats of to all who gave me advice , and i said before see you around the forum.

Chockdee na Krap.

:-)

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[Tolley]

When people talk about detox what they are talking about is getting the body back into equilibrium so that it functions the way it was supposed to work.

Clearly if you have a fatty liver your body is not functioning at optimal level and if left or bad habits continue could turn into something worse.

Stopping excess drinking and adopting a healthy lifestyle after a period of time would be acting as a 'detox' enabling the body to return to balance and getting rid of the fatty liver. So in essence you would be detoxing by removing excess alcohol consumption, eating health foods, and exercising regularly.

Now that might well be enough and might take as long as 6 or 12 months to restore your body to optimal condition.

Now if you want to fast track that process which you can as many others have done before you by doing lots of live fresh veggie juices, taking supplements like milk thistle to support the liver, probiotics for digestive function, lemon juice and might I say castor oil packs as well. Do you own research and see what works for you.

If you want to go to one of the places that specialises in organic foods, detox therapies there are plenty in Thailand. The good thing about these places is that they can kick start you into adopting a more healthy life style because you will not be able to undo in a week or two what has taken probably years of bad habits to create but they will set you on the path to a better healthier you.

[laislica]

In 1996 I bought a good quality juice maker, one with slow speed gears not the spinning sieve type. Juices made with this type of machine last longer than the sieve types. They all must be refrigerated though and best taken fresh as soon as they have been made.

I made my own veg juices.

If you can make it as needed that is the best way IMO.

Use the preparation time (and cleaning up after) as a meditation to help you reset your calming system.

At first I wanted up to two litres per day but after a short time that settled down to about one litre.

I drank water with a slice of lemon as well.

Occasionally about every week I ate a small piece of chicken breast.

Did this for six weeks, lost buckets of fat.

Blood pressure returned to normal, stopped taking the meds.

During this time I was in the gym every week day, did a good work out and sauna after.

I never felt better.

A total juice detox is said to be something like one week to taper into the regime and one week to taper out and one day of juice for every year of your life!

Today I would need 87 days LOL

Store bought juices are usually crap, full of sugar or worse HFCS and preservative crap.

Buy a Phillips of other make of centrifugal juicer and make your own juice. I bought one in Big C.

Use lots of green leaves and limit the fruit content. Carrots are also quite high in carbohydrates but add sweetness and are nice.

If you add citrus it will fizz because the juice is alkaline and the citrus is acid.

Makes it fun sometimes though LO! The bubbles are small and tickle your tongue.

If there are odd days when it is not possible to have the veg juice you can fall back on an apple.

It does not hurt to go hungry occasionally but keep the water intake up.

Be prepared to have the symptoms of a cold, runny eyes, nose, headache, etc. for a few days or so.

As you lose fat you free up toxins, heavy metals etc stored with the fat.

The symptoms will be worse the less water you drink.

Water flushes this bad stuff out.

We had a fridge at work so I'd make up the juice the night before and keep it in the fridge to sip whenever I felt the need.

I will refrain from giving this regime a title lest I displease the picky posters who are only interested in getting us to improve our English language skills and showing us how clever they are and we are not. LOL

Good luck.

[chiang mai]

There are two parts of my answer to the above, based on the reason for following a liquid diet:

As a means of dieting it's probably very effective although there are some risks of not getting all the vitamins and minerals you require, I would happily use that method for limited periods in order to loose weight, say one or two weeks at a time.

The second part of my answer has to do with the infamous "detox" issue, about which, "the Chief Dietician of St George’s Hospital Medical School in London, England, states that "The concept of ‘detox’ is a marketing myth rather than a physiological entity. The idea that an avalanche of vitamins, minerals, and laxatives taken over a 2 to 7 day period can have a long-lasting benefit for the body is also a marketing myth."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juice_fasting

And from the Mayo Clinic on this subject:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/detox-diets/faq-20058040

Edited October 15, 2014 by chiang mai

[chiang mai]

And on the subject of diets, here's a simple trick:

"So, according to scientist Dr Denise Robertson, from the University of Surrey, if you cook and cool pasta down then your body will treat it much more like fibre, creating a smaller glucose peak and helping feed the good bacteria that reside down in your gut. You will also absorb fewer calories, making this a win-win situation".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29629761

[h90]

And on the subject of diets, here's a simple trick:

"So, according to scientist Dr Denise Robertson, from the University of Surrey, if you cook and cool pasta down then your body will treat it much more like fibre, creating a smaller glucose peak and helping feed the good bacteria that reside down in your gut. You will also absorb fewer calories, making this a win-win situation".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29629761

I see the point, but I can't believe a -75 % in the glucose spike of the reheated/recooled one.

That just sounds too much. And this resistant starch is later digested in the guts. If there is a big amount of it, it would cause terrible farting and worse (I made products from it and tried them, eating larger amounts and you'll we a human rocket with gas/liquid propellant)

[N47HAN]

Well what a bloody night last night was.

So yesterday was the first day of the "detox" juice and as reported that stuff is virtually undrinkable due to the taste.

Anyhow i managed 5 of the 7 bottles given for the days allocation and had to stop just on the verge of throwing up every time I drunk one.

Anyway off to bed around 10pm , 30 minutes later..... jeesus christ im throwing up like ive never through up before , it was sureal . For the next 2 or 3 hours constantly on the throne pissing out my ass.

It was not good at all . Fast forward to this morning , up at 7am feeling okish , had some water and lime and a few extra glasses to rehydrate and feel bloody great ?!?

Thankfully not so busy with the buisiness today so took the last few hours out to relax and now heading out for the rest of the day.

Strangley feel pretty good , but one things for sure the juice certainly cleaned my system out.

Perhaps not the way it should of but none the less ...

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[chiang mai]

And on the subject of diets, here's a simple trick:

"So, according to scientist Dr Denise Robertson, from the University of Surrey, if you cook and cool pasta down then your body will treat it much more like fibre, creating a smaller glucose peak and helping feed the good bacteria that reside down in your gut. You will also absorb fewer calories, making this a win-win situation".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29629761

I see the point, but I can't believe a -75 % in the glucose spike of the reheated/recooled one.

That just sounds too much. And this resistant starch is later digested in the guts. If there is a big amount of it, it would cause terrible farting and worse (I made products from it and tried them, eating larger amounts and you'll we a human rocket with gas/liquid propellant)

I agree, but for those that have blood glucose issues and/or people who want to loose weight but can't get into eating carrots and celery, it's got to be worthwhile.

[chiang mai]

Well what a bloody night last night was.

So yesterday was the first day of the "detox" juice and as reported that stuff is virtually undrinkable due to the taste.

Anyhow i managed 5 of the 7 bottles given for the days allocation and had to stop just on the verge of throwing up every time I drunk one.

Anyway off to bed around 10pm , 30 minutes later..... jeesus christ im throwing up like ive never through up before , it was sureal . For the next 2 or 3 hours constantly on the throne pissing out my ass.

It was not good at all . Fast forward to this morning , up at 7am feeling okish , had some water and lime and a few extra glasses to rehydrate and feel bloody great ?!?

Thankfully not so busy with the buisiness today so took the last few hours out to relax and now heading out for the rest of the day.

Strangley feel pretty good , but one things for sure the juice certainly cleaned my system out.

Perhaps not the way it should of but none the less ...

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It sounds like you really know how to have fun!

But more seriously, how did you do on the beer and the food intake?

Edited October 16, 2014 by chiang mai

[ageless1]

I don't get the reasons behind getting so emotional about food! It's fuel for our bodies for goodness sake, a combination of nutrition for growth and repair and energy to run the machine. Eat and drink the right fuel and the motor will purr but substitite the fuel with crappy quality and things will go wrong eventually. The decision to do the right thing is intellectual and emotion shouldn't be what guides you. Just eat the carrots and celery!!

[ThaiPauly]

Jsut to repost as my reply may be lost in the above post.

Maybe Im misunderstanding something ?

To detox also is a means to help clean the liver and reduce its workload on clearing toxins.

Lose weight= fat = fat also within the liver ?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Walking on a treadmill is not particularly good for you so you must choose a different form of exercise.

Why is walking on a treadmill bad for you?

[chiang mai]

Jsut to repost as my reply may be lost in the above post.

Maybe Im misunderstanding something ?

To detox also is a means to help clean the liver and reduce its workload on clearing toxins.

Lose weight= fat = fat also within the liver ?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Walking on a treadmill is not particularly good for you so you must choose a different form of exercise.

Why is walking on a treadmill bad for you?

Because it wears out the belt on the tread mill and they're expensive to replace!

I mean really, have you ever heard such nonsense.

[N47HAN]

Just read some strange advice on one of the NHS pages ref to fatty liver.

It states that if its due to alcohol ( guessing thats where im at ) leave alcohol alone for two weeks and then your free to drink again within the guidlines given by them ??

Two weeks surely not enough time ?

Im planning on abstaining considerably longer but just seemed strange to give just 14 days rest ?

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Edited October 18, 2014 by N47HAN

[chiang mai]

If I recall, the NHS guidelines on alcohol consumption are something like one pint of beer per day and a rest of three consecutive days per week, that's almost abstinence.

Found it here: http://www.nhs.uk/change4life/Pages/alcohol-lower-risk-guidelines-units.aspx

[Sheryl]

In your case I think both weight and alcohol are involved.

[N47HAN]

In your case I think both weight and alcohol are involved.

Only additional weight is for certain gained through alcohol , i eat normally once a day , twice maximum.

Ive kind of concluded that abstaining from the beer , eating "normally" and starting some excercise the weight should go pretty quick.

And hopefully from what I can understand that should also help with reducing the fat in/on the liver.

Lets see how the next few weeks turn out.

Hopefull

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[AnotherOneAmerican]

Lets see how the next few weeks turn out.

6 months is more realistic.

[N47HAN]

Lets see how the next few weeks turn out.

6 months is more realistic.

Just hoping I guess ;-)

But will go back and have another ultrasound and blood tests just to monitor my progress end of the month.

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