Thai interview: 'Society must value integrity'

[Eric Loh]

All too idealistic to expect big changes to Thai society and politics. The NCPO may have broke the impasse and violence but too much vested interest to really bring fair and impartial changes. Already leading members of the NRC has openly declared their bias position. Up to the PM to steer the NRC away from partisanship and bring equitable reforms. Agree with Khun Thienchai that the task at hand is extremely challenging and a people nod is a must to seek approval from all sides. Most important of all that the NCPO hand the mandate back to the people by next year as promised.

[TTom911]

About 2 years ago the Bangkok Post ran a poll asking Thais if corruption was acceptable (or something to that ilk). 70% of respondents (and there were several thousand) came back and said that they believed corruption was acceptable, as long as they as individuals received a benefit from it. That response shocked me. Was this just the Thai Y- generation speaking ? How the hell can you beat an ingrained psych like that ? In the West we are taught from an early age that corruption stands alongside of criminality. Do the Thais understand this ? Being a long time observer, I still just don't know.

I recall reading that myself and I thought the main benefit Thais gained from corruption was the ability to buy their way out of trouble. Be it a traffic ticket or murder.

Absolutely no surprise to me at all... You see on a daily basis how it works here and how people tick... Thai's do NOT want to change. Corruption, on which ever small or large scale, is ingrained in their "normal way of life". Making a "career" in Thailand means usually not wasting time on useless "education and hard work", it means "getting more and paying less"... The only change most Thai are eagerly looking for is to climb up the food chain and pocket the big bucks themselves... that's regarded as "being a clever business person"... Why learn and innovate? "useless", "tiring", "alien", "farang"....

Don't disregard it as Thai bashing... it's proven constantly, day-by-day... those polls cited above are just a shocking statistical reflection of exactly that.

The outcome of the Koh Tao case WILL show us (again)... Thailand has a chance to prove it's changing, I seriously doubt they will take that chance, we see all the hallmarks of the continuation of their standard practices already...

We all would love to be proven wrong, no!? Then show it, Thailand, SHOW IT, if you can... !!

Edited October 13, 2014 by TTom911

[paddyjenkins]

Words like integrity confuse people. Stand up for decency. And not just stand up for it, but refuse to tolerate those in society who are aggressive, dishonest, violent. Standing up for decency means not just belief but action. Start by wiping the streets clean of the thugs that strut around places like Pattaya as if they are Gods. Wipe them away, have zero tolerance of their indecency and abuse of decent people. Start there, let's see if Thailand can do that.

Edited October 13, 2014 by paddyjenkins

[Ve37]

I'd want to live anywhere, where integrity was common, rather than rare. Very little integrity in the USA where I was raised,...much more integrity in North Thailand,...very little among the Bangkok Elite, like Mr Suthep, the now "enlightened monk."

The first step towards integrity however, is defining what integrity is. The best way IMO to define integrity is to point to what it is not,...for example, integrity is not found in any of Mr Suthep's speeches,...although he did use the word hate, as frequent as Americans use f.y..

Integrity is: the quality of being honest and fair. Thus,...no Christian, Muslim, or Jew can be considered a person of integrity because of their dishonest beliefs. As for fairness,...that is rather relative,...like the golden rule to treat others as you would like to be treated. If you're a psychopath, please do not treat me like you would treat yourself.

I'd say that "honesty" is the key to integrity. Honesty would be good for humanity. Thus, if the Thai people really want an awesome Constitution, they would make dishonesty a crime,...which, by the way, would make all Christian, Muslim, and Jewish institutions in Thailand instantly criminal,...for example, ending many of the conflicts in southern Thailand. Making dishonesty a crime, would put people like Mr Suthep in jail, where they belong.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Ve37

[spidermike007]

The reality is, it is too much to ask that politicians show integrity. At the national level, they just do not have it in them. And that is not exclusive to Thailand. Worldwide, nearly all national politicians are super corrupt, devoid of ethics and morality, and cannot be expected to put the public good ahead of their own self interests. Politics these days attracts a quality level of people, that is very low. I believe there are some exceptions, but not many.

However, the same cannot be said of the public. We all have a responsibility to treat our fellow world citizens, friends, family, and countrymen with a degree of respect, integrity, and fairness. That is part and parcel of what it means to be a decent person in this world. Whatever can be taught to instill this in people, is a good thing. Where do you start? Not sure. It sort of has to come from the parents. Many are just not prepared to bring children into this world, and they do it anyway. And the kids are left without a moral or ethical education. People do not just learn this stuff on their own, unless they are very self aware, and very conscious. So, good parenting is a good place to start. But, not all parents are even aware of what righteous morality is. Attempting to eradicate most corruption is a good place to start. But, not jawboning about corruption. Doing something about it. Massive fines, long prison sentences, and figuring out a way to get convictions. The judiciary is another good place to start. How can you impose punishment when the judiciary is as compromised as it is here in the LOS? How many straight prosecutors and judges do they have here? And then lastly we have the educational system. Where does one even begin to reform a system as broken as this one is? Not sure. But, a complete reform of the judiciary, the police, and the educational system is necessary to move Thailand into this century. That is if it is serious about becoming a respected member of the world community. I know this is alot to ask. But, the reality is, that it has to be done sooner or later. Why not sooner?

Edited October 13, 2014 by spidermike007

[WhizBang]

Nothing will change here until Thais stop worshiping at the alter of the almighty baht, or thinking they are subservient to those who have money.

As the Koh Tao tragedy shows, nothing is really going to change. We will get a couple of years lull (if we are lucky) and then it will be back to business as usual.

[Fred Flinstone]

You sir rob peoples integrate self worth when you prevent their right to self govern.

This is audacity to the extreme to even utter this kind of non-sense while being part of a Junta banned from Countries (Like Australia) and ruling by threat and fear.

[TTom911]

The reality is, it is too much to ask that politicians show integrity. At the national level, they just do not have it in them. And that is not exclusive to Thailand. Worldwide, nearly all national politicians are super corrupt, devoid of ethics and morality, and cannot be expected to put the public good ahead of their own self interests. Politics these days attracts a quality level of people, that is very low. I believe there are some exceptions, but not many.

However, the same cannot be said of the public. We all have a responsibility to treat our fellow world citizens, friends, family, and countrymen with a degree of respect, integrity, and fairness. That is part and parcel of what it means to be a decent person in this world. Whatever can be taught to instill this in people, is a good thing. Where do you start? Not sure. It sort of has to come from the parents. Many are just not prepared to bring children into this world, and they do it anyway. And the kids are left without a moral or ethical education. People do not just learn this stuff on their own, unless they are very self aware, and very conscious. So, good parenting is a good place to start. But, not all parents are even aware of what righteous morality is. Attempting to eradicate most corruption is a good place to start. But, not jawboning about corruption. Doing something about it. Massive fines, long prison sentences, and figuring out a way to get convictions. The judiciary is another good place to start. How can you impose punishment when the judiciary is as compromised as it is here in the LOS? How many straight prosecutors and judges do they have here? And then lastly we have the educational system. Where does one even begin to reform a system as broken as this one is? Not sure. But, a complete reform of the judiciary, the police, and the educational system is necessary to move Thailand into this century. That is if it is serious about becoming a respected member of the world community. I know this is alot to ask. But, the reality is, that it has to be done sooner or later. Why not sooner?

totally agree... reality is that the vast majority does not want to go to the dentist... they have plenty of excuses to wait until they can't chew any more... that's why people get bad teeth and some societies have blood on the streets one day... or, as experience tells, people hardly ever learn from history... they need to experience the pain before they make a change (until the pain has gone and they can go back to their old habits, of course)...

Edited October 13, 2014 by TTom911

[hiller]

What is integrity?

What is conscience?

What is compassion?

What is understanding?

What is respect?

What is honesty?

What is truth?

What is forgiveness?

What is honor?

All the above seem to be missing in the day to day life in TLOS.

[Ve37]

The reality is, it is too much to ask that politicians show integrity. At the national level, they just do not have it in them. And that is not exclusive to Thailand. Worldwide, nearly all national politicians are super corrupt, devoid of ethics and morality, and cannot be expected to put the public good ahead of their own self interests. Politics these days attracts a quality level of people, that is very low. I believe there are some exceptions, but not many.

In the USA, it can be proven, that not a single Senator or Congressperson has integrity simply by looking at votes.

For example, when the 9th District Court said that the "The Pledge, as currently codified, is an impermissible government endorsement of religion because it sends a message to unbelievers that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community,"...on the following day Congress approved a resolution "expressing support for the Pledge of Allegiance." Congress, along with 86-95% percent of Americans, want to disregard their Constitution which prohibits the endorsement of their monotheistic form religious expression.

No integrity in America.

It would be awesome if Thailand could establish integrity here,....absolutely awesome.

[Ve37]

Nothing will change here until Thais stop worshiping at the alter of the almighty baht, or thinking they are subservient to those who have money.

The Thai people already showed that (that they are not subservient to the Bangkok Elite) the day Yingluck won in a landslide election,...and then,...the Bangkok Elite took it back.

“Before martial law was declared, Gen Prayuth told me ‘Khun Suthep and your masses of PDRC supporters are too exhausted. It’s now the duty of the army to take over the task’, ” Mr Suthep said.

[WhizBang]

Nothing will change here until Thais stop worshiping at the alter of the almighty baht, or thinking they are subservient to those who have money.

The Thai people already showed that (that they are not subservient to the Bangkok Elite) the day Yingluck won in a landslide election,...and then,...the Bangkok Elite took it back.

“Before martial law was declared, Gen Prayuth told me ‘Khun Suthep and your masses of PDRC supporters are too exhausted. It’s now the duty of the army to take over the task’, ” Mr Suthep said.

I think you missed my point.

[wabothai]

Good intentions. Good luck !!

[toybits]

Such big words coming from him. He should first assess how he got to the position he is in and then make a statement about whether he should participate - based on the legitimacy (or lack of) of his appointment. Then we would all know whether there is meat to his "society must value integrity" statement.

[Strangebrew]

To add to his statement there are corrupt officials in every country only difference is when caught there stripped of all there assets sent to trial and if found guilty serve hard time. Not moved to inactive post to steal more. Oh yes there also banned for life from holding public office and lose voting rights too, so it happens less in other countries price to heavy to pay.

[dzodun]

"Thainess" is somehow entwined with the phrase "mai pen rai", which I loosely interpret as "it doesn't matter".

When a person makes a mistake or commits a sin, a Thai friend or acquaintance will say "mai pen rai" to help

the offender save face. Saving "face" makes one unaccountable, and no Thai wants to be accountable, so they

all enable each other to avoid blame. Much the same is the excuse, "kikiad", translated as "lazy" in English. In

Thailand saying one is "kikiad" is often considered a very acceptable reason for shirking one's duty. One can

save "face" blamelessly by admittingto being "kikiad". As most English speakers know,, the concept of

laziness has little in common with integrity. Another word for lazy, "slothful", is very derogatory, and one

would not easily admit to being so. Maybe this is why so many Thais, especially in government, seem to

exhibit laziness on a daily basis: it just doesn't matter; no "face" is lost by doing so.

Perhaps, in the West in recent decades we have developed our own version of saving "face". As long

as one has high "self esteem", no matter one's faults or failures, things are great. No one should be failed

in school because it might hurt their feelings and damage their psyche. Come to think of it, no one in

Thailand is allowed to fail in scool either. Political correctness all around the world, it seems. Probably

originated in Asia as "saving face" and morphed into "polotical correctness" in recent years.

[TTom911]

"Thainess" is somehow entwined with the phrase "mai pen rai", which I loosely interpret as "it doesn't matter".

When a person makes a mistake or commits a sin, a Thai friend or acquaintance will say "mai pen rai" to help

the offender save face. Saving "face" makes one unaccountable, and no Thai wants to be accountable, so they

all enable each other to avoid blame. Much the same is the excuse, "kikiad", translated as "lazy" in English. In

Thailand saying one is "kikiad" is often considered a very acceptable reason for shirking one's duty. One can

save "face" blamelessly by admittingto being "kikiad". As most English speakers know,, the concept of

laziness has little in common with integrity. Another word for lazy, "slothful", is very derogatory, and one

would not easily admit to being so. Maybe this is why so many Thais, especially in government, seem to

exhibit laziness on a daily basis: it just doesn't matter; no "face" is lost by doing so.

Perhaps, in the West in recent decades we have developed our own version of saving "face". As long

as one has high "self esteem", no matter one's faults or failures, things are great. No one should be failed

in school because it might hurt their feelings and damage their psyche. Come to think of it, no one in

Thailand is allowed to fail in scool either. Political correctness all around the world, it seems. Probably

originated in Asia as "saving face" and morphed into "polotical correctness" in recent years.

This Asian "saving face" thing may have some historical and cultural roots and meaning, nowadays its all too often nothing but an overused, cheap attempt to put a glossy term on avoiding responsibility. The biggest loss of face lies in the act itself and the best way to save face is to show remorse and/or make good and not to cowardly hide behind some facade of tradition

[toybits]

Society must value integrity. So how is it that when you post something in Thai or post Thai text in TVF it is immediately flagged and removed. But then TVF allows Thai Text Advertisments here as in KAIDEE.com. So why the double standard?

[tbthailand]

"If you look at developed countries, people do not accept bribes or commit corruption because they uphold and value personal integrity.

actually, they do accept bribes. Look at Virginia in the US.

But they do not often get away with it because there are stricter laws combined with transparency, enforcement, and a free, professional, active press.

[TTom911]

"If you look at developed countries, people do not accept bribes or commit corruption because they uphold and value personal integrity.

actually, they do accept bribes. Look at Virginia in the US.

But they do not often get away with it because there are stricter laws combined with transparency, enforcement, and a free, professional, active press.

Exactly! Our "western" society is by no means inhabited by angels, far far from it, but the changes that crooks, independent of their status, are brought to justice and face the music at some stage is still a million times higher than here (even though also in our home countries too many are also still getting away with it)... but realistically that's probably as much as you can ask from a democracy...

[sangfroid]

Nothing will change here until Thais stop worshiping at the alter of the almighty baht, or thinking they are subservient to those who have money.

As the Koh Tao tragedy shows, nothing is really going to change. We will get a couple of years lull (if we are lucky) and then it will be back to business as usual.

+1

[ScubaPhuket]

It worries me that all of these newly appointed leaders are very obviously Chinese, the last bastion of communism.

[ScubaPhuket]

Would someone help me with a thai translation of facism?

The best that I can find is เผด็จการ which only translates as dictator/despot/oppressor/autocrat etc.

With no proper translation of the word I am led to believe that thais don't understand the concept.

Having spoken to many thais on the subject who have expressed their fears with regard to standing up & making their voice heard to the authorities it is my belief that this country has never really been on the path to democracy, only on their path towards alignment with their governors, China.

I looked up historical communism on Wikipedia & came up with these 2 diagrams, the first being a historical map of self declared communist states & the second being a map of current communist states. The United states have done a wonderful job of eradicating communism & giving rights & voices to the people of the world but thailand is now travelling backwards in fear of it's big brother & confidante & seems to be inserting Chinese politicians into positions of power.

I believe it would be of use to the thai people if they began to understand the concept of facism & all the damage it brings with it.

[englishoak]

Would someone help me with a thai translation of facism?

The best that I can find is เผด็จการ which only translates as dictator/despot/oppressor/autocrat etc.

With no proper translation of the word I am led to believe that thais don't understand the concept.

Having spoken to many thais on the subject who have expressed their fears with regard to standing up & making their voice heard to the authorities it is my belief that this country has never really been on the path to democracy, only on their path towards alignment with their governors, China.

I looked up historical communism on Wikipedia & came up with these 2 diagrams, the first being a historical map of self declared communist states & the second being a map of current communist states. The United states have done a wonderful job of eradicating communism & giving rights & voices to the people of the world but thailand is now travelling backwards in fear of it's big brother & confidante & seems to be inserting Chinese politicians into positions of power.

I believe it would be of use to the thai people if they began to understand the concept of facism & all the damage it brings with it.

Communism is not Fascism Bro

[ScubaPhuket]

Would someone help me with a thai translation of facism?

The best that I can find is เผด็จการ which only translates as dictator/despot/oppressor/autocrat etc.

With no proper translation of the word I am led to believe that thais don't understand the concept.

Having spoken to many thais on the subject who have expressed their fears with regard to standing up & making their voice heard to the authorities it is my belief that this country has never really been on the path to democracy, only on their path towards alignment with their governors, China.

I looked up historical communism on Wikipedia & came up with these 2 diagrams, the first being a historical map of self declared communist states & the second being a map of current communist states. The United states have done a wonderful job of eradicating communism & giving rights & voices to the people of the world but thailand is now travelling backwards in fear of it's big brother & confidante & seems to be inserting Chinese politicians into positions of power.

I believe it would be of use to the thai people if they began to understand the concept of facism & all the damage it brings with it.

Communism is not Fascism Bro

I meant fascism, they already have a translation for communism but not for fascism.

Edited October 13, 2014 by ScubaPhuket

[Thai at Heart]

"Thainess" is somehow entwined with the phrase "mai pen rai", which I loosely interpret as "it doesn't matter".

When a person makes a mistake or commits a sin, a Thai friend or acquaintance will say "mai pen rai" to help

the offender save face. Saving "face" makes one unaccountable, and no Thai wants to be accountable, so they

all enable each other to avoid blame. Much the same is the excuse, "kikiad", translated as "lazy" in English. In

Thailand saying one is "kikiad" is often considered a very acceptable reason for shirking one's duty. One can

save "face" blamelessly by admittingto being "kikiad". As most English speakers know,, the concept of

laziness has little in common with integrity. Another word for lazy, "slothful", is very derogatory, and one

would not easily admit to being so. Maybe this is why so many Thais, especially in government, seem to

exhibit laziness on a daily basis: it just doesn't matter; no "face" is lost by doing so.

Perhaps, in the West in recent decades we have developed our own version of saving "face". As long

as one has high "self esteem", no matter one's faults or failures, things are great. No one should be failed

in school because it might hurt their feelings and damage their psyche. Come to think of it, no one in

Thailand is allowed to fail in scool either. Political correctness all around the world, it seems. Probably

originated in Asia as "saving face" and morphed into "polotical correctness" in recent years.

This Asian "saving face" thing may have some historical and cultural roots and meaning, nowadays its all too often nothing but an overused, cheap attempt to put a glossy term on avoiding responsibility. The biggest loss of face lies in the act itself and the best way to save face is to show remorse and/or make good and not to cowardly hide behind some facade of tradition

Something has been lost in translation about face, because there was also a loss of integrity, and shame associated with failure.

This is not what is seen in face in Thailand today.