Why not more self sustaining farms

[utalkin2me]

Maybe that is the wrong term, but why aren't there more people out in the country cutting their power lines, buying some candles, drawing water up by hand pump, and just live off of what they grow, and sell excess for small profit? It seems like it would be a much better and less stressful life. I was genuinely curious about this, and felt this the best place to ask

Edited October 13, 2014 by utalkin2me

[gerry123]

i think you will find this sort of lifestyle (maybe different format)is now being promoted by the present governors of this fine land

not in my way of logical thinking but certainly where i live this is the way i see the majority of the farmers live like this already

if you are promoting this lifestyle should be adopted by all of Thailand i suggest you move to UTOPIA

[noahvail]

My BIL lives like that, except his bore is dry so there's no water. His rice used to feed our whole family, but not anymore. So he bought a Kubota tractor and hires himself out. It's a nice thought, to get off the grid, but you still need affordable broadband for the kids' education. If it weren't for the Kubota and his old motorbike, he'd be living the way people here in the villages of Isaan did 150 years ago and more.

[Zooheekock]

why aren't there more people out in the country cutting their power lines, buying some candles, drawing water up by hand pump, and just live off of what they grow, and sell excess for small profit? It seems like it would be a much better and less stressful life.

Probably for the same reason that you're not living that life. It's shɪt.

[utalkin2me]

I am sure it is different all over Thailand, but the farms I had experience with hardly seemed to turn a profit, which is why I brought this up. I suppose many of the more sophisticated farms have no problem making a profit every year though. To me it seems they are essentially working to make somebody else rich, but maybe I am mistaken.

Edited October 13, 2014 by utalkin2me

[WtFugarwe]

Everybody wishes the other guy would do this.

[xen]

I tried to live that way many years ago and you still need money to pay taxes , pay for education and health for your kids, and buy the items you cannot produce yourself. Sounds ideal but is far from it.

[utalkin2me]

I don't wish the other guy would do it. Just curious why.

I worked a season once, and as far as I can tell the single lady we were helping made about 10k baht in profit after all was said and done. She had to hire workers to cut and separate the rice, as there was too much mud for a machine to do it. She paid about 10 people to cut, and was providing them with booze and food all day. It was about 10 rai. Maybe this is not normal, but from what I saw the amount of work put in over the year vs the payoff was ridiculous. They mentioned to me most families helped out other farms in a quid pro quo style of work, but it dawned on me that this doesn't make much sense either, because you are working yours and all your neighbor's farms for a small payoff. One would be much better off just taking care of yourself i thought. Just what I thought not being judgmental.

What taxes would they pay living out there. The way I understand it there are no taxes.

Edited October 14, 2014 by utalkin2me

[WtFugarwe]

10K in profit for a whole season? For 10 rai?

I was not speaking to you, mate when I made the crack about how people want the other guy to do it. I have off grid farmland on 11 rai of the worst paddy land you have ever dreamed. I went to PEA--no ideas on solar. I went to the Land Office--they did not know what inoculant was, had no leguminous seed for sale or free. I went to MS Univ to get a soil test. They refused to accept the sample because "the whole department is at a seminar until next Monday". So I have resolved to do it arrmed only with my farm experience back in the world--some useful, some not-- and the wisdom gleaned from TV.

[utalkin2me]

10K in profit for a whole season? For 10 rai?

I was not speaking to you, mate when I made the crack about how people want the other guy to do it. I have off grid farmland on 11 rai of the worst paddy land you have ever dreamed. I went to PEA--no ideas on solar. I went to the Land Office--they did not know what inoculant was, had no leguminous seed for sale or free. I went to MS Univ to get a soil test. They refused to accept the sample because "the whole department is at a seminar until next Monday". So I have resolved to do it arrmed only with my farm experience back in the world--some useful, some not-- and the wisdom gleaned from TV.

Yes, although I am not sure of the size. I would say cut about 10 or 15% off a US football field (100 yards), and that was about the area. Sound close to 10 rai? I thought 10 was what was mentioned.

10 rai or not I felt the profit was ridiculous. This was after chemicals were spread earlier in the season and all expenses accounted for.

Edited October 14, 2014 by utalkin2me

[malathione]

10K in profit for a whole season? For 10 rai?

I was not speaking to you, mate when I made the crack about how people want the other guy to do it. I have off grid farmland on 11 rai of the worst paddy land you have ever dreamed. I went to PEA--no ideas on solar. I went to the Land Office--they did not know what inoculant was, had no leguminous seed for sale or free. I went to MS Univ to get a soil test. They refused to accept the sample because "the whole department is at a seminar until next Monday". So I have resolved to do it arrmed only with my farm experience back in the world--some useful, some not-- and the wisdom gleaned from TV.

Yes, although I am not sure of the size. I would say cut about 10 or 15% off a US football field (100 yards), and that was about the area. Sound close to 10 rai? I thought 10 was what was mentioned.

10 rai or not I felt the profit was ridiculous. This was after chemicals were spread earlier in the season and all expenses accounted for.

That would be about 3 rai or less. Still a pretty miserable payoff, I guess.

[loong]

Have you ever hand pumped water and transported it for your family's needs?

Well, I have, as well as the water for my plot.

I can tell you that it takes a lot of time and effort. For even a small farm, you would be pumping and transporting all day in the dry periods.

Mind you, it does keep you fit

[HUAHIN62]

If you follow that lifestyle how do you pay for medical expenses, school fees etc. What happen if there is a drought and your water runs dry? Sounds good in theory but in reality in Thailand without free medical and schooling its not possible.

[1FinickyOne]

I live with farmers - they grow their own food and fish and gather, but they also have cash crops too. Is there some reason they should not be able to enjoy their music, have lights and television and running water and a washing machine if they want? They work hard and feel good abt having used profits to buy a pick-up truck and supermarket items when they want.

I don't think your idea f ideal is the same as theirs but they are much closer to it. Yours sounds like a tough life and what happens when you get sick or old? To each his own, I guess.

[pigeonjake]

some call this county 3rd world,

now you want some to go back to the dark ages,,lol

[Jbax]

Thailand would do itself a favor by adopting what works best in other countries, and apply it to Thailand.

Create farm agents, who visit local farms and process soil/water tests, keep current on pesticides (and organic alternatives), disease, weather patterns, animal innoculations and, where applicable, crop rotations. They would also offer advice on drainage, wells and soil improvements.

Aspects of this program should be an adjunct of every Thai university.

Government sponsored machinery collectives. Establish districts and provide low cost equipment rentals: tractors, combines, emergency pumps, generators wagons, combines, tillers, etc. Make it a break even operation, allowing for living wages for employees and maintenance.

Seed/fertilizer collectives.

Provide government sponsored crop insurance.

The government also should take an intelligent look at GMO's and establish a well-reasoned official stance.

Upgrade the power grid. Thailand's is ridiculous at best, deadly at worst.

Provide universal high-speed internet access nation-wide. Make Thailand the model for the world.

[JacChang]

I have thought about that, having my own land to grow most of the food I would need to eat. Also have a self turbine wind farm, just one that propels over my land or house lol and all these solar panels.

It's not so much on reducing costs. It's just that fantastic idea of being "free" from it all.

That's why I'm an investor, never liked the job or occupation, I made income self sustainable. Now my next step is getting the OP's dream to be true.

[Wat dee]

How long is your walk to the internet shop where you posted?

[Roelf]

Have you ever hand pumped water and transported it for your family's needs?

Well, I have, as well as the water for my plot.

I can tell you that it takes a lot of time and effort. For even a small farm, you would be pumping and transporting all day in the dry periods.

Mind you, it does keep you fit

I

i just bought a 130 Watt solar panel for $160 (in the US) and a 24 V DC pump , for US$ 120, (made in China) and took it to Thailand, (the panel rolls up and it all fits in a suitcase). I tested it at home and it only pumps maybe a 1/2 gallon per minute, and it seems only to pump up hill about 200 feet.

It might not keep me fit if I don,t have to pump. However, with the amount of sun in LOS, it should certainly be sufficient to water my plants. And I count on it that I will not be "pumping and transporting all day in the dry periods"

But then again, until now it is all an expiriment. Time will tell.

R.

[pigeonjake]

Have you ever hand pumped water and transported it for your family's needs?

Well, I have, as well as the water for my plot.

I can tell you that it takes a lot of time and effort. For even a small farm, you would be pumping and transporting all day in the dry periods.

Mind you, it does keep you fit

I

i just bought a 130 Watt solar panel for $160 (in the US) and a 24 V DC pump , for US$ 120, (made in China) and took it to Thailand, (the panel rolls up and it all fits in a suitcase). I tested it at home and it only pumps maybe a 1/2 gallon per minute, and it seems only to pump up hill about 200 feet.

It might not keep me fit if I don,t have to pump. However, with the amount of sun in LOS, it should certainly be sufficient to water my plants. And I count on it that I will not be "pumping and transporting all day in the dry periods"

But then again, until now it is all an expiriment. Time will tell.

R.

we dont have town water on our farm,

2 pumps for the house water, 1 bore is 15mts deep the other 18mts,

and we have a bore down at the pigs too 20mts deep,

i wouldnt like to hand pump my water for the day here,showers, pigs to clean,

sof that,

its a nice dream for some,

but its going backwards,, you talk about being of grid, yet youll still want internet,,

[malt25]

i think you will find this sort of lifestyle (maybe different format)is now being promoted by the present governors of this fine land

not in my way of logical thinking but certainly where i live this is the way i see the majority of the farmers live like this already

if you are promoting this lifestyle should be adopted by all of Thailand i suggest you move to UTOPIA

Hey gerry, have a look at this.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/grammar

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/punctuation

[Greg Nixon]

Why not use solar power ? Pressurized water, lights, the internet and a hot shower do not have to be a luxury. Buffalo can substitute for tractors and the farms are small anyway. Getting around might be a problem without a vehicle.

I do not think anyone wants to live in the Thailand of 40 years ago.

[Greg Nixon]

Check out the Green revolution in Cuba a multipart documentary with David Suzuki .

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Green+revolution+in+Cuba+david+suzuki

[Expat1]

A very good question.

I have a financial interest in a farm in the south for a number of years I acquired through helping a friend. The crop grown there is Hemp (and for you FNGs that is NOT marijuana. Thailand is already an exporter of hemp and it's products.) The hemp grown there is amazing stuff. The seeds are used for feed, human food products, and can be used to make bidiesel (they do not do that as yet though we have tried to convince them of it) . The stalks make fibers, etc. They sell through a broker there and make good money. More than a rice farmer by a lot. One gets several crops a year as it grows fast and pretty much without a great deal of attention. It is basically a good weed. I do not have hands on with this farm but it is interesting to watch what they do and IMHO this should be grown a lot more in this country as it would solve a lot of problems. This type of farming could readily be fully self-sustaining as it is in Canada and other places in the world.

[Daniel Boon]

Check out the Green revolution in Cuba a multipart documentary with David Suzuki .

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Green+revolution+in+Cuba+david+suzuki

the 'green revolution' in Cuba is a myth ... (YouTube "Power of the Community' propagates the myth)

[utalkin2me]

Why not use solar power ? Pressurized water, lights, the internet and a hot shower do not have to be a luxury. Buffalo can substitute for tractors and the farms are small anyway. Getting around might be a problem without a vehicle.

I do not think anyone wants to live in the Thailand of 40 years ago.

The thing is though, people are pretty much living as you describe, AND working their butts off. I just see there is an option to live with about the same quality of life without the hard work. It will still be hard work, but you will be working to support only yourself.

[utalkin2me]

Have you ever hand pumped water and transported it for your family's needs?

Well, I have, as well as the water for my plot.

I can tell you that it takes a lot of time and effort. For even a small farm, you would be pumping and transporting all day in the dry periods.

Mind you, it does keep you fit

I haven't.

But I have worked in the sun cutting the rice, which is where the question is coming from. I'll tell you what though, I will take pumping some water in a shady spot all year to even a few days of that cutting anytime. But that is just me.

There have been some good answers. I just tend to feel the price paid for the minimal amount of "luxury" isn't worth it, from what I saw. Each community is probably different though. The place I have experience with is pretty much just glorified camping. As the saying goes, "you can put lipstick on a pig...."

The thing is though, if you have a farm and are just taking care of yourself without the rice, maybe you grow hemp as mentioned, or something like mushrooms, and have some yearly income, so you can purchase things you need. But get rid of the back breaking, low income producing rice farms. That's all i'm saying. To each their own though, just wondering why more people don't do it, but many here are saying people are doing it, and giving good reasons as to why others aren't. Fair enough.

Edited October 15, 2014 by utalkin2me

[xen]

Check out the Green revolution in Cuba a multipart documentary with David Suzuki .

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Green+revolution+in+Cuba+david+suzuki

the 'green revolution' in Cuba is a myth ... (YouTube "Power of the Community' propagates the myth)

Could you elaborate on that statement about the green evolution being a myth as i understood it is a great influence on community gardens and permaculture design around the world. Also Simon Reeves spends a lot of time showing the green revolution in his documentary on Cuba. Be very interested to find out more if it is not working so as learn lessons from its failure.

[utalkin2me]

Well, diverging from the topic a little, I have though many times "why not just buy a piece of land somewhere near the ocean, grow my food and attempt to sustain myself with little to no monthly expenses.....". I would hope everyone would at least ask themselves that question. Many do and have answered right here in the thread.

I suppose where I am going with this is I feel there is a certain element that has been ingrained into us by society. I am not sure how. But society needs us to be working and paying taxes. Surely Thailand needs all these people to produce its rice. The point I am trying to make is I think this need we feel we have for electricity and other comforts may be wildly manipulated into our conscience. "It's just the way we do things". Picture yourself on a farm near a body of water with your family. I am really not sure what "problems" are coming to mind for many. For me fishing would replace the TV, singing with my aunt could replace music (let's face it though we could always have music by way of radio and batteries anyway). It seems to me like we make things "bad", "backwards" and "low" when they in fact don't have to be thought of that way. I do think it has been manipulated into out consciousness - interesting to think on in any event.

[gerry123]

i think you will find this sort of lifestyle (maybe different format)is now being promoted by the present governors of this fine land

not in my way of logical thinking but certainly where i live this is the way i see the majority of the farmers live like this already

if you are promoting this lifestyle should be adopted by all of Thailand i suggest you move to UTOPIA

Hey gerry, have a look at this.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/grammar

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/punctuation

• 65 years old
• BirthdayOctober 25, 1948 not much success eh mate