Ebola In Thailand..... Are You Prepared?

[attrayant]

I'm not convinced the 1989 and 2012 infections were passed through the air. All I've seen is guessing and hypothesizing about how it might have happened. Since that was a lab setting, the CDC should have been able to isolate the infectious agent and determine whether or not it had in fact become airborne.

Something else I think we may start hearing soon that nobody has yet touched on.

Islamic extremists going to West Africa to collect the virus and return to their country as a carrier. Then infecting a whole bunch of like minded suicide agents and them moving to places like the UK, USA, Israel Aus etc...... contaminating as many places as they can before eventually pegging it.

Anyone think ISIS wouldn't want to try it? Look how many Islamic extremists there are in Africa.

So this can be deliberately spread and I can't see how the powers that be can have a hope in hell of preventing it.

Nobody's touched on it because it's crazy. Terrorists would have to go door-to-door with bags of infected feces or vomit. Not a very effective method of causing mass fatalities. Here's a Slate article for you:

Ebola is not a weapon

Ebola is very real, and very scary. But this outbreak isnt a recipe for a bioweapon. Not unless you want to be the most incompetent bioterrorist in history.

First, the virus isnt a viable bioweapon candidate. It doesnt spread quicklyits R0, a measure of how infectious a virus is, is about 2. That means that, in a population where everyone is at risk, each infected person will, on average, infect two more people. But because someone with Ebola is infectious only when she shows symptoms, weve got plenty of chances to clamp down on an outbreak in a country with a developed public health system.

[Jingthing]

Well I guess one silver lining in this, if you get it and lucky enough to survive, I think you don't have to worry anymore. When you recover, you are no longer infectious and presumably can't get it again.

[Mudcrab]

I'm not convinced the 1989 and 2012 infections were passed through the air. All I've seen is guessing and hypothesizing about how it might have happened. Since that was a lab setting, the CDC should have been able to isolate the infectious agent and determine whether or not it had in fact become airborne.

Something else I think we may start hearing soon that nobody has yet touched on.

Islamic extremists going to West Africa to collect the virus and return to their country as a carrier. Then infecting a whole bunch of like minded suicide agents and them moving to places like the UK, USA, Israel Aus etc...... contaminating as many places as they can before eventually pegging it.

Anyone think ISIS wouldn't want to try it? Look how many Islamic extremists there are in Africa.

So this can be deliberately spread and I can't see how the powers that be can have a hope in hell of preventing it.

Nobody's touched on it because it's crazy. Terrorists would have to go door-to-door with bags of infected feces or vomit. Not a very effective method of causing mass fatalities. Here's a Slate article for you:

Ebola is not a weapon

Ebola is very real, and very scary. But this outbreak isnt a recipe for a bioweapon. Not unless you want to be the most incompetent bioterrorist in history.

First, the virus isnt a viable bioweapon candidate. It doesnt spread quicklyits R0, a measure of how infectious a virus is, is about 2. That means that, in a population where everyone is at risk, each infected person will, on average, infect two more people. But because someone with Ebola is infectious only when she shows symptoms, weve got plenty of chances to clamp down on an outbreak in a country with a developed public health system.

I certainly hope you are right. Time will tell.

[attrayant]

So not only is it quite possible, it is highly likely to go airborne if not already. Because we are seeing evidence of people now contacting it after not having ANY direct skin to skin contact.... So the only way they could have become infected is if they breathed it in, and yes..... It can get in through the upper lung.

"Highly likely" is a joke. Your entire post is suppositional hysteria. The Texas nurse admitted to rubbing her face with her dirty gloved hand. Nobody is insisting that skin-to-skin contact is required, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to specifically mention skin-to-skin contact.

As I posted already, the best we can say about the 89 and 2012 incidents are that this or that might have happened. This was a lab setting, and the animals were available for testing afterwards. No airborne infectious agent was isolated as far as I know. If you've got a paper that says otherwise, cite it.

[zydeco]

So not only is it quite possible, it is highly likely to go airborne if not already. Because we are seeing evidence of people now contacting it after not having ANY direct skin to skin contact.... So the only way they could have become infected is if they breathed it in, and yes..... It can get in through the upper lung.

"Highly likely" is a joke. Your entire post is suppositional hysteria. The Texas nurse admitted to rubbing her face with her dirty gloved hand. Nobody is insisting that skin-to-skin contact is required, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to specifically mention skin-to-skin contact.

As I posted already, the best we can say about the 89 and 2012 incidents are that this or that might have happened. This was a lab setting, and the animals were available for testing afterwards. No airborne infectious agent was isolated as far as I know. If you've got a paper that says otherwise, cite it.

Can you supply a link to the story about the nurse rubbing her face with a dirty glove. I haven't seen it and I would like to read through it.

[wackybacky]

I'm not convinced the 1989 and 2012 infections were passed through the air. All I've seen is guessing and hypothesizing about how it might have happened. Since that was a lab setting, the CDC should have been able to isolate the infectious agent and determine whether or not it had in fact become airborne.

Something else I think we may start hearing soon that nobody has yet touched on.

Islamic extremists going to West Africa to collect the virus and return to their country as a carrier. Then infecting a whole bunch of like minded suicide agents and them moving to places like the UK, USA, Israel Aus etc...... contaminating as many places as they can before eventually pegging it.

Anyone think ISIS wouldn't want to try it? Look how many Islamic extremists there are in Africa.

So this can be deliberately spread and I can't see how the powers that be can have a hope in hell of preventing it.

Nobody's touched on it because it's crazy. Terrorists would have to go door-to-door with bags of infected feces or vomit. Not a very effective method of causing mass fatalities. Here's a Slate article for you:

Ebola is not a weapon

Ebola is very real, and very scary. But this outbreak isnt a recipe for a bioweapon. Not unless you want to be the most incompetent bioterrorist in history.

First, the virus isnt a viable bioweapon candidate. It doesnt spread quicklyits R0, a measure of how infectious a virus is, is about 2. That means that, in a population where everyone is at risk, each infected person will, on average, infect two more people. But because someone with Ebola is infectious only when she shows symptoms, weve got plenty of chances to clamp down on an outbreak in a country with a developed public health system.

Ebola is very real, and very scary. But this outbreak isnt a recipe for a bioweapon. Not unless you want to be the most incompetent bioterrorist in history.

First, the virus isnt a viable bioweapon candidate. It doesnt spread quicklyits R0, a measure of how infectious a virus is, is about 2. That means that, in a population where everyone is at risk, each infected person will, on average, infect two more people. But because someone with Ebola is infectious only when she shows symptoms, weve got plenty of chances to clamp down on an outbreak in a country with a developed public health system.

All it takes is for them to pick up the disease, travel to their target country and wait till they are starting to get the symptoms and then go to very pubic places and stary depositing on all sorts of door handles, pedestrian crossing buttons in busy areas, ATM keypads etc etc.... you can do this all day,every day that you can remain upright.

The virus in say fancies or urine mixed with water can last for several hours and in that time how many successful infections can these actions produce?

Not very infectious????...... tell that to the families of the hundreds of aid workers dressed in full protective garb that have since died. Or how about the family of the nurses in Texas and Madrid who were equally cautious.

Like I said in the OP..... anyone can trawl the internet to find conflicting info.... I will stick with the expert views on these issues, you can stick with your own sources. My sources are largely all singing from the same song sheet.

The only real incompetent thing I have read is that you would think a bio-terrorist will knock on your door with a bag full of faeces or vomit.... Coming out with that line really lost all credibility in your post.

[attrayant]

Seems that I mixed up the nurse in Spain with the one in Texas. The Spanish nurse was the one who rubbed her face. The Texas nurse apparently did not follow protocol when removing her protective clothing:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/13/health/ebola-nurse-how-could-this-happen/index.html

Although it doesn't go into detail. I'd like to know exactly what protocol was breached and why other health care workers working on the same patient didn't get infected.

[wackybacky]

So not only is it quite possible, it is highly likely to go airborne if not already. Because we are seeing evidence of people now contacting it after not having ANY direct skin to skin contact.... So the only way they could have become infected is if they breathed it in, and yes..... It can get in through the upper lung.

"Highly likely" is a joke. Your entire post is suppositional hysteria. The Texas nurse admitted to rubbing her face with her dirty gloved hand. Nobody is insisting that skin-to-skin contact is required, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to specifically mention skin-to-skin contact.

As I posted already, the best we can say about the 89 and 2012 incidents are that this or that might have happened. This was a lab setting, and the animals were available for testing afterwards. No airborne infectious agent was isolated as far as I know. If you've got a paper that says otherwise, cite it.

Every OP ends up with his own personal troll eventually, I suppose you are mine.

Just stick with your own belief system and I will stick to mine.

Ignore list for you. and rant to yourself.

I will end by saying that I suggest that if this thing goes the way I am predicting and many many of the world's highest regarded virologists also, then at least I will have been helpful to raise concerns that people may benefit from.

People like yourself if you are wrong, then you are very dangerous not only to yourself but to others who may suck up your point of view.

Bye.

[attrayant]

The only real incompetent thing I have read is that you would think a bio-terrorist will knock on your door with a bag full of faeces or vomit.... Coming out with that line really lost all credibility in your post.

Then you lose points for reading comprehension, because it came from the Slate article I linked to. You also don't seem to understand what hyperbole is: using ridiculous scenarios to point out how ridiculous your premise is. You were the one supposing that it might become a bio-weapon. I was imply pointing out what kinds of ridiculous things would have to happen to make that even remotely possible.

[ATF]

The OP makes a valid argument.

...but becoming a prepper in thailand is a useless proposition.

The machette wielding mobs will be on your farang door in no time braying for blood....and your stockpiled food.

I would hightail it back to farangland if I was seriously afraid about Ebola.

At least I can defend myself there...have friends, family etc.

I don't buy this Ebola scare...we've been here before....SARS., bird flu, swine flu...etc

Scared sheeple equals controlled people.

I'm not a prepper but I do have over 10,000 rounds of ammo in case of civil unrest and plenty of firearms too.

Yes but you are not in Thailand

What would you do if you were here?

I am in Thailand. Why would you think I wouldn't be? Guns are legal in Thailand with the exception of fully automatic weapons, certain military calibers and sniper rifles.

[wackybacky]

So not only is it quite possible, it is highly likely to go airborne if not already. Because we are seeing evidence of people now contacting it after not having ANY direct skin to skin contact.... So the only way they could have become infected is if they breathed it in, and yes..... It can get in through the upper lung.

"Highly likely" is a joke. Your entire post is suppositional hysteria. The Texas nurse admitted to rubbing her face with her dirty gloved hand. Nobody is insisting that skin-to-skin contact is required, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to specifically mention skin-to-skin contact.

As I posted already, the best we can say about the 89 and 2012 incidents are that this or that might have happened. This was a lab setting, and the animals were available for testing afterwards. No airborne infectious agent was isolated as far as I know. If you've got a paper that says otherwise, cite it.

Can you supply a link to the story about the nurse rubbing her face with a dirty glove. I haven't seen it and I would like to read through it.

Me too.

I have overdosed on this news so far and have not seen any mention to it.

[JDGRUEN]

Ebola is not an airborne transmitted disease. It is transmitted by the exchange of body fluids. So unless you come in from an Ebola infected country or come into physical contact with and exchange bodily fluids with an infected person you are not at risk. So said the doctor I was just watching here in UK on BBC Breakfast TV as Heathrow Airport prepares for Ebola screening. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29605988 Government says there are Contingency Plans for extending screening to Birmingham and Manchester if necessary.

Well - I hope the U.K. gets a handle on things - few others are...

Also, Airborne is a definition reserved for a particle containing a load of viruses that is small enough and light enough to float in the air.

On the other hand - spittle or just spit/saliva can be expelled as micro droplets when someone talks to you at close range... airline seat for instance. Also if an Ebola patient coughs or sneezes for any reason as humans do from time to time... then any micro droplets or nasal secretions, or micro globlets of phlegm can be expelled onto another person or object another person touches. Fomits are such objects and dried secretions can be infectious for several hours - commode handles, faucet handles, door handles... Plus if a patient behaves as Mr. Duncan did - that patient can go though a period of projectile vomiting and uncontrolled liquid diarrhea - contaminating entire restrooms, seat covers, commode seats, flush handles... If the patient has had this happen and does not clean up well - or perhaps even if they do... infectious virus loads are everywhere... Thus the reason a suspected Ebola patient must isolated and the area he/she was occupying decontaminated as quickly and as thoroughly as possible. And better yet - kept in West Africa.

"On the other hand - spittle or just spit/saliva can be expelled as micro droplets when someone talks to you at close range... airline seat for instance. Also if an Ebola patient coughs or sneezes for any reason as humans do from time to time... ."

- the doctor dismissed that as a risk but then again she's only a doctor!

Ask the nurse in Texas who has Ebola and was wearing a full biohazard suit - how did it happen - nobody knows yet

... And if you read the literature you will find many scientist, doctors, researchers, who will tell you about fomites ,,, and how they become contaminated with the Ebola virus and actually go from just being an object into being a virus carrying object - a fomite... Look for a few links - I will post them for you ... and there are several on the other Ebola topic threads ... up to you if you want to trust what you think you read/heard from one doctor.

[herb59]

yes ,better safe. now i wear condoms all the day long.

[lucifer666]

My fear of an Ebola outbreak is somewhere equally par with my fear of a Zombie outbreak or the coming of the next Apocalypse.

[Arandora]

I think I'll carry on listening to and reading qualified opinion on the current situation.

By all means continue to listen to your BBC TV doctor and disregard what agencies such as the CDC are now admitting to be a threat.

I never mentioned disregarding other agencies or just relying on what I see and hear on BBC which I was only reporting what was said in any event. By qualified opinion I meant not relying on unqualified opinion, like mine, on forums like this.

[zydeco]

I think I'll carry on listening to and reading qualified opinion on the current situation.

By all means continue to listen to your BBC TV doctor and disregard what agencies such as the CDC are now admitting to be a threat.

I never mentioned disregarding other agencies or just relying on what I see and hear on BBC which I was only reporting what was said in any event. By qualified opinion I meant not relying on unqualified opinion, like mine, on forums like this.

My apologies, then. I mistook the nature of your post.

[wackybacky]

I think I'll carry on listening to and reading qualified opinion on the current situation.

By all means continue to listen to your BBC TV doctor and disregard what agencies such as the CDC are now admitting to be a threat.

I never mentioned disregarding other agencies or just relying on what I see and hear on BBC which I was only reporting what was said in any event. By qualified opinion I meant not relying on unqualified opinion, like mine, on forums like this.

All my own input has been based on 3 days of information gathering from the finest virologists on the planet, while filtering out obvious conspiracy theorists, lunatics and mainstream media over-reactive hype. The BBC is the last place I would go to. infowars are a much more credible source and can be verified, and what's more they don't have agenda apart from reporting if they think the governments (especially the US) have their own agenda with mainstream media manipulation.

[attrayant]

Ask the nurse in Texas who has Ebola and was wearing a full biohazard suit - how did it happen - nobody knows yet

She probably did something stupid and now is afraid to admit it. Here's a picture of a cleanup team wearing hazmat suits:

Notice anything unusual about that guy on the left? Suppose he turns up in the ICU next week and we had never seen that photo. We'd no doubt have posters saying "How could that happen? He was wearing a full hazmat suit! It must be AIRBORNE!"

(Picture taken from this article)

Edited October 14, 2014 by attrayant

[JDGRUEN]

Ask the nurse in Texas who has Ebola and was wearing a full biohazard suit - how did it happen - nobody knows yet

She probably did something stupid and now is afraid to admit it. Here's a picture of a cleanup team wearing hazmat suits:

Notice anything unusual about that guy on the left? Suppose he turns up in the ICU next week and we had never seen that photo. We'd no doubt have posters saying "How could that happen? He was wearing a full hazmat suit! It must be AIRBORNE!"

(Picture taken from this article)

Where are the photos of the nurse violating protocol? I am sure you have them...

[Arandora]

I think I'll carry on listening to and reading qualified opinion on the current situation.

By all means continue to listen to your BBC TV doctor and disregard what agencies such as the CDC are now admitting to be a threat.

I never mentioned disregarding other agencies or just relying on what I see and hear on BBC which I was only reporting what was said in any event. By qualified opinion I meant not relying on unqualified opinion, like mine, on forums like this.

All my own input has been based on 3 days of information gathering from the finest virologists on the planet, while filtering out obvious conspiracy theorists, lunatics and mainstream media over-reactive hype. The BBC is the last place I would go to. infowars are a much more credible source and can be verified, and what's more they don't have agenda apart from reporting if they think the governments (especially the US) have their own agenda with mainstream media manipulation.

With due respect I would prefer the opinion of a qualified doctor speaking directly on BBC (or any other source) to 3 days of information gathering by an unqualified source on a discussion forum. Give people who you don't know from Adam having the intelligence to distinguish between real information as opposed to having an agenda of their own.

[Ricky HKT]

I know one thing.... No way will I even ponder air travel until the "Big Ebola" at least slows down.

Until then, I am going to get as many (golf) rounds in as I can...

Life is short anyway... Enjoy!!

[attrayant]

Where are the photos of the nurse violating protocol? I am sure you have them...

I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth. The CDC director said that, not I.

The point is this: There are people who claim with absolute certainty that she followed all the protocols yet somehow became infected. The picture is an example of why we can't make such claims.

[wackybacky]

Ask the nurse in Texas who has Ebola and was wearing a full biohazard suit - how did it happen - nobody knows yet

She probably did something stupid and now is afraid to admit it. Here's a picture of a cleanup team wearing hazmat suits:

Notice anything unusual about that guy on the left? Suppose he turns up in the ICU next week and we had never seen that photo. We'd no doubt have posters saying "How could that happen? He was wearing a full hazmat suit! It must be AIRBORNE!"

(Picture taken from this article)

Where are the photos of the nurse violating protocol? I am sure you have them...

I am still waiting for that too....

Instead we get a random picture from 2 weeks ago of a low level area being cleaned. The school was not used by any known infected person or ebola index patient while in the contagious stage.... Then he makes ludicrous remarks about it as if that is a solid basis to ignore the fears and concerns of some of the top ebola virus experts in the world.

At the moment even the CDC who are doing everything in their power to play down this ebola outbreak while all the other experts are disagreeing with them (probably on orders too keep panic down). Even THEY actually issued guidelines for aeroplane cleaning staff and air crews to take specific precautions so as not to spread the virus by air.

So by their own admission, they believe it themselves it can go airborne if it already hasn't.

So..... If it comes to it... Who are you going to believe here?.... The top minds in the business or Attrayant with his wayward pictures without any real argument that's cuts across the grain of every fully qualified people we know?

Oh he lies too. Still no link about the Dallas nurse rubbing her bare face with her contaminated glove. I had a good hunt around for it and no joy on my end... so sounds like the usual crap, to try to win an un-winnable argument.

[wackybacky]

I never mentioned disregarding other agencies or just relying on what I see and hear on BBC which I was only reporting what was said in any event. By qualified opinion I meant not relying on unqualified opinion, like mine, on forums like this.

All my own input has been based on 3 days of information gathering from the finest virologists on the planet, while filtering out obvious conspiracy theorists, lunatics and mainstream media over-reactive hype. The BBC is the last place I would go to. infowars are a much more credible source and can be verified, and what's more they don't have agenda apart from reporting if they think the governments (especially the US) have their own agenda with mainstream media manipulation.

With due respect I would prefer the opinion of a qualified doctor speaking directly on BBC (or any other source) to 3 days of information gathering by an unqualified source on a discussion forum. Give people who you don't know from Adam having the intelligence to distinguish between real information as opposed to having an agenda of their own.

Go do your own research then.....

Not much left to say after that.

I have provided many links to many credible sources. Nothing is random. But go find yourself, it will make you feel better.

That's is fine... It really is.

Edit: Sorry, the above is meant in a friendly way, on re-reading it can come across as a bit arrogant.

Edited October 14, 2014 by wackybacky

[mikiea]

I wouldn't start preparing for anything until a major city falls - I doubt this will happen.

If it does it will be in Africa which will provide the rest of the world with ample warning of what's coming.

[mikiea]

a major city falls? it does not work like that. maybe 50-60 years ago it did. we are a global world, in 18 hrs this can spread to any major city in any country. what will destroy a city will be it own inability to contain the spread, lack of medical care (non ebola), food & water shortages,rapid inflation & price gouging. there is no cure, sick people will be stacked up. panic will thrive. ebola will mutate, already is airborn in texas. it will be interesting & dangerous times in the near future. stock up on water,rice,& supplements. :-)

[ukrules]

a major city falls? it does not work like that. maybe 50-60 years ago it did. we are a global world, in 18 hrs this can spread to any major city in any country. what will destroy a city will be it own inability to contain the spread, lack of medical care (non ebola), food & water shortages,rapid inflation & price gouging. there is no cure, sick people will be stacked up. panic will thrive. ebola will mutate, already is airborn in texas. it will be interesting & dangerous times in the near future. stock up on water,rice,& supplements. :-)

It does work like that. There is a multi day (1 week maybe) incubation time and people don't become infectious until they're ill - this limits it's spread which is why Ebola infections tend to happen to those who are close to the victims - like doctors, nurses and family members.

It's not 'already airborne' in Texas.

[Jingthing]

Monrovia Liberia a a big city and it is certainly hurting now. Now projection 10 thousand new cases a week in that region by Christmas with a 70 percent death rate. Do the math.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Jingthing

[JDGRUEN]

Seems that I mixed up the nurse in Spain with the one in Texas. The Spanish nurse was the one who rubbed her face. The Texas nurse apparently did not follow protocol when removing her protective clothing:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/13/health/ebola-nurse-how-could-this-happen/index.html

Although it doesn't go into detail. I'd like to know exactly what protocol was breached and why other health care workers working on the same patient didn't get infected.

"The Texas nurse apparently did not follow protocol when removing her protective clothing" Of course she did not... according to an off the cuff proclamation by a CDC official -- who had no evidence - no proof - no nothing ... except a knee jerk reaction to protect his job and the CDC... The CDC has no proof of what happened - nothing... they are guessing and laying blame to protect themselves...

Show me the proof the nurse infected herself... show me how she did it... show the procedural lapse - show me when it happened... You know so much - certainly you know all the answers to my questions... or are you just making it up as you go along...

[JDGRUEN]

Where are the photos of the nurse violating protocol? I am sure you have them...

I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth. The CDC director said that, not I.

The point is this: There are people who claim with absolute certainty that she followed all the protocols yet somehow became infected. The picture is an example of why we can't make such claims.

Wow! You have an unusual way of making yourself perfectly clear..