Thailand agrees to British police help over murders

[BritTim]

So much for Local Drunk and his entire day of trying to convince everyone that the petition was useless and wouldn't make any difference here..... Lol

I suspect large servings of 'humble pie' for breakfast now that Koh Tao will soon have 'The Plod' sniffing around.

I would call that a massive difference.

I bet certain bums are going to be squeaking on that island when they read this.

I suspect certain people will be on the first boat off and onto the first plane to Cambodia.

The British police will quickly eliminate the two young lads, and then make a list of suspects. They will surely be picking up Mr McCanna to find out what he knows.

This is going to be like peeling a banana.

I think your view is overly optimistic. What the British police will be allowed to do (at best) is audit the existing evidence and ask the Thai police questions. There is no question of the British police taking over the investigation.

That said, it is still a positive development.

[bertty]

The email newsletter headline is grossly misleading: the British police is not here to investigate anything.

As reported on the Nation, as well as on other Thai news websites, all the British will be able to do is to observe the investigation.

Police officers going to another country have no jurisdiction and therefore no authority to do anything without the assistance of their hosts.

They can ask for anything and everything without any guarantee they will get it and being told the ' BIB will co-operate fully ' can in reality mean little.

If they try to operate as they normal would, make demands etc they can so easily be reminded they are stepping beyond their terms of reference to Observe.

The British police are a professional operation. They will not be told what they can and can not do.

I'm sure they can be reminded if they are seen to be stepping beyond their terms.

And they will smile, not say sorry and carry on as they were.

[nicolas18]

The email newsletter headline is grossly misleading: the British police is not here to investigate anything.

As reported on the Nation, as well as on other Thai news websites, all the British will be able to do is to observe the investigation.

So you think the British police are coming as 'observers' only?

What they going to observe?

The investigation is 100% complete according to the Thai police. The 'perfect job' was done.

The 'evidence' is 'overwhelming'.

So what is now to observe?.... sitting in the back of the court to watch the trial without being allowed to look at the evidence? or the investigation report???

Don't be daft..... If they can't get involved with at least checking the investigation themselves, then there is no point being there at all. It will only piss off the UK even more. You think that is going to happen?

You are dreaming.... read the Telegraph.

You are quoting yesterday's news from Somyat, Prayuth has since stepped in..... to different people.

The source said: "Obviously it is for the Thai authorities to lead and carry out that judicial process," a diplomatic source said.

"But it is important that it is fair and transparent and that both of the families can be reassured that it is the murderers that have been brought to justice.

"There are two areas we are particularly concerned about. One if the verification of the DNA samples of the suspects, making sure there is further independent verification.

"And the second is the investigation into allegations of mistreatment of the suspects.

"What the PM secured this morning was agreement from the Thai PM that we can send some British police investigators to Kho Tao to work with the Royal Thai Police on this."

Judicial process is nothing more than the charges against the two suspects.... Judicial process is from everything AFTER the investigation as in the prosecution of the case in court.

This is from the BBC today:

A diplomatic source said that Thai authorities were leading the investigation, but it was important that "both of the families can be reassured that it is the murderers that have been brought to justice".

He said: "There are two areas we are particularly concerned about. One is the verification of the DNA samples of the suspects, making sure there is further independent verification.

"And the second is the investigation into allegations of mistreatment of the suspects.

This seems pretty clear:

1. The RTP is in charge of the investigation, and no one else.

2. British investigators' role will be to check the DNA test results and look into the mistreatment allegations.

Anyone thinking that British police will start searching houses and interrogating potential suspects on Koh Tao is deluded. I can not think of a single instance where an independent country ever allowed a foreign police force to conduct their own separate investigation on its soil.

(And, for the record, I do, of course, believe the two guys in jail are perfectly innocent.)

[ScubaPhuket]

I only hope that we can field some officers with a working knowledge of Thai and Burmese languages. I also worry that the Burmese accused will have already been threatened with the consequences of speaking honestly to UK police. If they need interpreters then these should not be provided by the RTP and all translated conversations should be recorded to verify accuracy after the event. Another worry is that they will find the evidence so tainted that it can prove nothing one way or the other.

It's not possible to taint the DNA evidence already obtained in the UK or the DNA of the accused so at the very least we should be able to save these 2 burmese kids.

[nicolas18]

The British police are a professional operation. They will not be told what they can and can not do.

I'm sure they can be reminded if they are seen to be stepping beyond their terms.

And they will smile, not say sorry and carry on as they were.

You, sir, are obviously an expert on diplomatic relations.

/sarcasm

[chrisrazz]

Win Win for the General PM. Allow the brits to prove the case either way. If it's an RTP stitch up, the public outcry will provide the ammunition the General PM needs to clean out the cesspit.

[andygunther]

This will be interesting....

See if the truth finally comes to the surface

[wackybacky]

The email newsletter headline is grossly misleading: the British police is not here to investigate anything.

As reported on the Nation, as well as on other Thai news websites, all the British will be able to do is to observe the investigation.

Police officers going to another country have no jurisdiction and therefore no authority to do anything without the assistance of their hosts.

They can ask for anything and everything without any guarantee they will get it and being told the ' BIB will co-operate fully ' can in reality mean little.

If they try to operate as they normal would, make demands etc they can so easily be reminded they are stepping beyond their terms of reference to Observe.

The British police are very professional.

They won't make demands, they will make requests and if they are rejected without good reason, they will enquire as to why.

They will make full reports of each time they have requests for crucial information or access and even more questions will be asked.

Any deliberate non-cooperation will be probably go into reports. These reports will be forwarded up to a diplomatic level.

Anything less than full cooperation will just create diplomatic headaches especially for the Thai administration, it is their reluctance that is keeping this indignant flame in the hearts of people from one side of the world to the other.

There will be no arrogant reminders that they are overstepping anything. They are only observers over the 'judicial process'..... but will be active in the investigation process.

Please keep the two separate.... they are completely different.

[AGareth2]

how is the mistreatment of Burmese nationals the remit of uk police?

[ScubaPhuket]

how is the mistreatment of Burmese nationals the remit of uk police?

Because thailand made the mistake of joining the United Nations.

[wackybacky]

So much for Local Drunk and his entire day of trying to convince everyone that the petition was useless and wouldn't make any difference here..... Lol

I suspect large servings of 'humble pie' for breakfast now that Koh Tao will soon have 'The Plod' sniffing around.

I would call that a massive difference.

I bet certain bums are going to be squeaking on that island when they read this.

I suspect certain people will be on the first boat off and onto the first plane to Cambodia.

The British police will quickly eliminate the two young lads, and then make a list of suspects. They will surely be picking up Mr McCanna to find out what he knows.

This is going to be like peeling a banana.

I think your view is overly optimistic. What the British police will be allowed to do (at best) is audit the existing evidence and ask the Thai police questions. There is no question of the British police taking over the investigation.

That said, it is still a positive development.

I never once said they were coming to 'take over the investigation'..... nobody has said that until you did.

I wouldn't consider myself 'overly optimistic' but I am 'reasonably optimistic'.

I consider this a great release of a month of frustration borne out of farcical investigation, dubious evidence, probably corruption and arrogance on the part of the Thai authorities. So even if I am wrong to be optimistic at any level, I am happy to bask in the sunlight of possible decent positive news and outcome.

What the British police will be allowed to do (at best) is audit the existing evidence and ask the Thai police questions.

I totally agree........ So in other words.... 'investigate the Thai police and their entire case'..... Well that's a start and a bloody great start. Isn't really any wall they can hit is there?

[NongKhaiKid]

The email newsletter headline is grossly misleading: the British police is not here to investigate anything.

As reported on the Nation, as well as on other Thai news websites, all the British will be able to do is to observe the investigation.

Police officers going to another country have no jurisdiction and therefore no authority to do anything without the assistance of their hosts.

They can ask for anything and everything without any guarantee they will get it and being told the ' BIB will co-operate fully ' can in reality mean little.

If they try to operate as they normal would, make demands etc they can so easily be reminded they are stepping beyond their terms of reference to Observe.

The British police are a professional operation. They will not be told what they can and can not do.

I'm sure they can be reminded if they are seen to be stepping beyond their terms.

And they will smile, not say sorry and carry on as they were.

Being outside their own jurisdiction they will be told what they can and cannot do as would Thai officers on an enquiry anywhere in Britain.

How can they carry on as they were when everything will be supervised by the BIB and observre status is so easily withdrawn ? They have no constabulary powers here to question, search, examine evidence etc. and how many will speak fluent Thai, Burmese and the dialect of the twp suspects ?

[wackybacky]

The email newsletter headline is grossly misleading: the British police is not here to investigate anything.

As reported on the Nation, as well as on other Thai news websites, all the British will be able to do is to observe the investigation.

So you think the British police are coming as 'observers' only?

What they going to observe?

The investigation is 100% complete according to the Thai police. The 'perfect job' was done.

The 'evidence' is 'overwhelming'.

So what is now to observe?.... sitting in the back of the court to watch the trial without being allowed to look at the evidence? or the investigation report???

Don't be daft..... If they can't get involved with at least checking the investigation themselves, then there is no point being there at all. It will only piss off the UK even more. You think that is going to happen?

You are dreaming.... read the Telegraph.

You are quoting yesterday's news from Somyat, Prayuth has since stepped in..... to different people.

The source said: "Obviously it is for the Thai authorities to lead and carry out that judicial process," a diplomatic source said.

"But it is important that it is fair and transparent and that both of the families can be reassured that it is the murderers that have been brought to justice.

"There are two areas we are particularly concerned about. One if the verification of the DNA samples of the suspects, making sure there is further independent verification.

"And the second is the investigation into allegations of mistreatment of the suspects.

"What the PM secured this morning was agreement from the Thai PM that we can send some British police investigators to Kho Tao to work with the Royal Thai Police on this."

Judicial process is nothing more than the charges against the two suspects.... Judicial process is from everything AFTER the investigation as in the prosecution of the case in court.

This is from the BBC today:

A diplomatic source said that Thai authorities were leading the investigation, but it was important that "both of the families can be reassured that it is the murderers that have been brought to justice".

He said: "There are two areas we are particularly concerned about. One is the verification of the DNA samples of the suspects, making sure there is further independent verification.

"And the second is the investigation into allegations of mistreatment of the suspects.

This seems pretty clear:

1. The RTP is in charge of the investigation, and no one else.

2. British investigators' role will be to check the DNA test results and look into the mistreatment allegations.

Anyone thinking that British police will start searching houses and interrogating potential suspects on Koh Tao is deluded. I can not think of a single instance where an independent country ever allowed a foreign police force to conduct their own separate investigation on its soil.

(And, for the record, I do, of course, believe the two guys in jail are perfectly innocent.)

Anyone thinking that British police will start searching houses and interrogating potential suspects on Koh Tao is deluded. I can not think of a single instance where an independent country ever allowed a foreign police force to conduct their own separate investigation on its soil.

Yet another person quoting something he thought he read.

Where did ANYONE say ANYTHING about TAKING OVER the investigation???

Man you have an over-active imagination.... 'searching houses and interrogating witnesses'....... indeed.... lol

[misterphil]

Good luck with getting the correct visa or work permit?

[diehard60]

OH YEAA

This is what we wanted all along, objective reached.

BIG thanks to everyone who made a fuss and helped get the word out.

For once its one up to the good guys.

But way toooooo late. Everything is already covered up.

[Briggsy]

Exactly the same as Kirsty Jones case.

The local police will provide zero co-operation, if not actively sabotage any fruitful investigation, whilst giving a thin facade of assistance to the British police. Anything pointing to politically powerful families on Koh Tao will be kept out of sight.

The Thais are masters at bending at little to avoid international retaliation or condemnation.

Nothing will come of this. The outcome has already been decided within Thailand.

[chainarong]

I expect the British police will have a torturous time with the RTP not because of their getting in the way , but of their amature investigative skills, the RTP will learn a few new ideas in this deal, whether they remember or not is another thing.

[NongKhaiKid]

The email newsletter headline is grossly misleading: the British police is not here to investigate anything.

As reported on the Nation, as well as on other Thai news websites, all the British will be able to do is to observe the investigation.

Police officers going to another country have no jurisdiction and therefore no authority to do anything without the assistance of their hosts.

They can ask for anything and everything without any guarantee they will get it and being told the ' BIB will co-operate fully ' can in reality mean little.

If they try to operate as they normal would, make demands etc they can so easily be reminded they are stepping beyond their terms of reference to Observe.

The British police are very professional.

They won't make demands, they will make requests and if they are rejected without good reason, they will enquire as to why.

They will make full reports of each time they have requests for crucial information or access and even more questions will be asked.

Any deliberate non-cooperation will be probably go into reports. These reports will be forwarded up to a diplomatic level.

Anything less than full cooperation will just create diplomatic headaches especially for the Thai administration, it is their reluctance that is keeping this indignant flame in the hearts of people from one side of the world to the other.

There will be no arrogant reminders that they are overstepping anything. They are only observers over the 'judicial process'..... but will be active in the investigation process.

Please keep the two separate.... they are completely different.

Do you mean active as in ' hands on ' ? i very much doubt anything like that will be allowed as there's no authority and everything will be monitored by the BIB who will always be in charge.

Every investigation is the earliest part of the judicial process and they will not be active as you say only observers as already specified and if they make suggestions they do not have to be followed.

[IamNoone88]

We can only hope that justice can be served.

[thailandchilli]

This is as good a news as anyone could expect!

The British have 2 specific agendas:

1. Independent verification of the DNA

2. Investigate possible abuse in the confessions

Number one should be relativity easy to complete even without the co operation of the Thai police, if this can be verified then at least we get to the truth about the 2 current suspects.

All those on here still criticizing and trolling, I have this to say, you've already been proved wrong, things are moving forward and we will get to the truth of this and get JUSTICE for the victims and their families

[bertty]

The British police are a professional operation. They will not be told what they can and can not do.

I'm sure they can be reminded if they are seen to be stepping beyond their terms.

And they will smile, not say sorry and carry on as they were.

You, sir, are obviously an expert on diplomatic relations.

/sarcasm

When you need to tell someone you are being sarcastic it kinda loses the meaning.

[Neeranam]

Mind you..... There is still this difference of opinion between Prayuth and Somyat, because The Nation is spinning the opposite story.

Foreign investigators barred from Thailand: police chief

"No matter what laws are taken into account, be it Britain's laws or those of other countries, foreign investigators cannot take part in cases that take place in Thailand as this would violate the Kingdom's sovereignty," the police chief insisted.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Foreign-investigators-barred-from-Thailand-police--30245741.html

So Prayuth is saying Yes, and his mate is saying no..... Are they still connected on LINE or what?

Unless Prayuth has been stupidly trusting Somyat all this time and the latter obviously knowing a bit more of what is actually going on.

Somyat will be fired soon, mark my words.

[sweatalot]

The email newsletter headline is grossly misleading: the British police is not here to investigate anything.

As reported on the Nation, as well as on other Thai news websites, all the British will be able to do is to observe the investigation.

Police officers going to another country have no jurisdiction and therefore no authority to do anything without the assistance of their hosts.

They can ask for anything and everything without any guarantee they will get it and being told the ' BIB will co-operate fully ' can in reality mean little.

If they try to operate as they normal would, make demands etc they can so easily be reminded they are stepping beyond their terms of reference to Observe.

But Prayuth said they are allowed to help.

Observation only was yesterday and the vicious wish of the police general.

See which one is stronger

[MobileContent]

This is a good start

[wackybacky]

The email newsletter headline is grossly misleading: the British police is not here to investigate anything.

As reported on the Nation, as well as on other Thai news websites, all the British will be able to do is to observe the investigation.

Police officers going to another country have no jurisdiction and therefore no authority to do anything without the assistance of their hosts.

They can ask for anything and everything without any guarantee they will get it and being told the ' BIB will co-operate fully ' can in reality mean little.

If they try to operate as they normal would, make demands etc they can so easily be reminded they are stepping beyond their terms of reference to Observe.

The British police are very professional.

They won't make demands, they will make requests and if they are rejected without good reason, they will enquire as to why.

They will make full reports of each time they have requests for crucial information or access and even more questions will be asked.

Any deliberate non-cooperation will be probably go into reports. These reports will be forwarded up to a diplomatic level.

Anything less than full cooperation will just create diplomatic headaches especially for the Thai administration, it is their reluctance that is keeping this indignant flame in the hearts of people from one side of the world to the other.

There will be no arrogant reminders that they are overstepping anything. They are only observers over the 'judicial process'..... but will be active in the investigation process.

Please keep the two separate.... they are completely different.

Do you mean active as in ' hands on ' ? i very much doubt anything like that will be allowed as there's no authority and everything will be monitored by the BIB who will always be in charge.

Every investigation is the earliest part of the judicial process and they will not be active as you say only observers as already specified and if they make suggestions they do not have to be followed.

Well I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

If the Brits will be blocked at every turn it is going to turn out very bad for Thailand as far as diplomatic relations between the UK and Thailand. The UK will expect a fairly decent level of cooperation. They will spot holes all over the audit and they will be asking even more questions than they have already asked.

Maybe its me, but I am starting to sense a few of the most pessimistic members actually have more of an issue with the British rather than this case.

If they can't even check the DNA and rule out the two suspects, then no real point in them coming at all really. If they can do that and rule them out, then they will certainly ask for DNA testing of certain other suspects..... Don't think the UK police don't know about the rich mafia.... they had two young nationals murdered here and you can bet that as sure a god made little green apples, that they have a police team already studying all this CSI LA and even this forum since day 1.

They are not going to be fobbed off...... The more they are blocked the more the media will feast off it.... The more everyone knows what is happening, the worse Prayuth looks.

I would say it is much more likely that Prayuth is realising he can't get Thailand out of this one, and like another member mentioned, he will throw anyone under the bus to save his political ass. He will also coming out smelling of roses both internationally and domestically and that will go a hell of a long way..... Or risk everything to save Somyit's face and a few corrupt coppers down the line..... No brainer.

[CNXTim]

What about fingerprints? I didn't see any mention of them, did anyone here notice any official report?

[TTom911]

the first, well deserved, huge slap into the face of some brown shirt big mouths... and that is just the start... they will not forget what's gonna happen now... the genie crept out of the bottle...

Edited October 18, 2014 by TTom911

[NongKhaiKid]

The email newsletter headline is grossly misleading: the British police is not here to investigate anything.

As reported on the Nation, as well as on other Thai news websites, all the British will be able to do is to observe the investigation.

Police officers going to another country have no jurisdiction and therefore no authority to do anything without the assistance of their hosts.

They can ask for anything and everything without any guarantee they will get it and being told the ' BIB will co-operate fully ' can in reality mean little.

If they try to operate as they normal would, make demands etc they can so easily be reminded they are stepping beyond their terms of reference to Observe.

But Prayuth said they are allowed to help.

Observation only was yesterday and the vicious wish of the police general.

See which one is stronger

The general said but the proof of the pudding.

Help can be defined in any way wanted and maybe not quite in the positive way we all hope as the BIB will not want any fit up to be exposed.

[wackybacky]

Mind you..... There is still this difference of opinion between Prayuth and Somyat, because The Nation is spinning the opposite story.

Foreign investigators barred from Thailand: police chief

"No matter what laws are taken into account, be it Britain's laws or those of other countries, foreign investigators cannot take part in cases that take place in Thailand as this would violate the Kingdom's sovereignty," the police chief insisted.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Foreign-investigators-barred-from-Thailand-police--30245741.html

So Prayuth is saying Yes, and his mate is saying no..... Are they still connected on LINE or what?

Unless Prayuth has been stupidly trusting Somyat all this time and the latter obviously knowing a bit more of what is actually going on.

Somyat will be fired soon, mark my words.

Exactly....... Prayuth can come out of this with a lot of dignity, no face loss at all. He will be loved by many.

Cameron possibly even hinted this can be swung round to his favour and we all know David is a right sly old fox.

Win win situation.

[bertty]

Its lucky the Thai force wear brown. It wont show up so easily.