UK cops 'to only observe'

[jdinasia]

is that wanted by thailand?

Suthep's pic with a suspect makes me think bad

No it is not wanted by Thailand and many people suspect ulterior motives for that ( me included).

However, if Suthep being in a photograph with suspected criminals, hoodlums, gangsters and assorted bad eggs makes you feel bad

I suggest you avoid all his photos where he is not alone.

thinking bad..but feeling good i mean i was always right about that man....

dont say its not wanted by thailand

its not wanted by influential people in the army and in the police...but lof of thais want it

My apologies for not being clear. I meant the Thai corrupt authorities.

I did not mean to cast doubt on the Thai people, I live here and know most Thai people to be warm and friendly

their presence on CSI LA gives all farangs hope for Thailands future The new generation will make Thailand a great

nation if the corruption can be stopped.

CSI LA g

Because the police in the UK are certainly not only professional.. They are above corruption and links to organized crime!!

This story will take some wind out of sails around here!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-investigation-after-2000-police-officers-are-implicated-in-corruption-9802832.html

So, you`re suggesting the Brit pol will be paid off by influential people in Thailand just like their Thai counterparts. It would have to be a fat envelope as Brit Pol are not owed protection in return for past political favors and business arrangements.

Nope not suggesting that at all

that is a straw man.

I am however saying that this report could have legs. Corruption rife in UK police will play well here.

[jdinasia]

Kun Suthep makes Thaksin look like Mother Teresa

is that wanted by thailand?

Suthep's pic with a suspect makes me think bad

No it is not wanted by Thailand and many people suspect ulterior motives for that ( me included).

However, if Suthep being in a photograph with suspected criminals, hoodlums, gangsters and assorted bad eggs makes you feel bad

I suggest you avoid all his photos where he is not alone.

Boris.. Tell that to the families of the people killed in the war on drugs.

[BoristheBlade]

Thaksin is an evil man...very evil......Suthep the same and some

Kun Suthep makes Thaksin look like Mother Teresa

is that wanted by thailand?
Suthep's pic with a suspect makes me think bad


No it is not wanted by Thailand and many people suspect ulterior motives for that ( me included).

However, if Suthep being in a photograph with suspected criminals, hoodlums, gangsters and assorted bad eggs makes you feel bad
I suggest you avoid all his photos where he is not alone.

Boris.. Tell that to the families of the people killed in the war on drugs.

[Artisi]

is that wanted by thailand?

Suthep's pic with a suspect makes me think bad

No it is not wanted by Thailand and many people suspect ulterior motives for that ( me included).

However, if Suthep being in a photograph with suspected criminals, hoodlums, gangsters and assorted bad eggs makes you feel bad

I suggest you avoid all his photos where he is not alone.

thinking bad..but feeling good i mean i was always right about that man....

dont say its not wanted by thailand

its not wanted by influential people in the army and in the police...but lof of thais want it

My apologies for not being clear. I meant the Thai corrupt authorities.

I did not mean to cast doubt on the Thai people, I live here and know most Thai people to be warm and friendly

their presence on CSI LA gives all farangs hope for Thailands future The new generation will make Thailand a great

nation if the corruption can be stopped.

CSI LA g

Because the police in the UK are certainly not only professional.. They are above corruption and links to organized crime!!

This story will take some wind out of sails around here!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-investigation-after-2000-police-officers-are-implicated-in-corruption-9802832.html

OK, reports of corruption / misbehavior etc. but at least it's known and out in the open- unlike Thailand where every one of the BIB are perfectly clean, upfront and honest without any need to be investigated, where promotion is bought, traded for favours and corrupt to the core so therefore everything must be OK and honest. Think i would prefer the UK for its honesty than the criminal force passing itself off as the law and order in Thailand.

[jdinasia]

is that wanted by thailand?

Suthep's pic with a suspect makes me think bad

No it is not wanted by Thailand and many people suspect ulterior motives for that ( me included).

However, if Suthep being in a photograph with suspected criminals, hoodlums, gangsters and assorted bad eggs makes you feel bad

I suggest you avoid all his photos where he is not alone.

thinking bad..but feeling good i mean i was always right about that man....

dont say its not wanted by thailand

its not wanted by influential people in the army and in the police...but lof of thais want it

My apologies for not being clear. I meant the Thai corrupt authorities.

I did not mean to cast doubt on the Thai people, I live here and know most Thai people to be warm and friendly

their presence on CSI LA gives all farangs hope for Thailands future The new generation will make Thailand a great

nation if the corruption can be stopped.

CSI LA g

Because the police in the UK are certainly not only professional.. They are above corruption and links to organized crime!!

This story will take some wind out of sails around here!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-investigation-after-2000-police-officers-are-implicated-in-corruption-9802832.html

OK, reports of corruption / misbehavior etc. but at least it's known and out in the open- unlike Thailand where every one of the BIB are perfectly clean, upfront and honest without any need to be investigated, where promotion is bought, traded for favours and corrupt to the core so therefore everything must be OK and honest. Think i would prefer the UK for its honesty than the criminal force passing itself off as the law and order in Thailand.

Strangely I can find many articles where corrupt RTP have been arrested here.

Edit

BTW the story just popped up on my Twitter feed talk about timing!!

Edited October 19, 2014 by jdinasia

[jomcondo]

Coverups are reserved for the very top in the uk

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10950111/The-alleged-paedophile-ring-at-the-heart-of-the-British-Establishment.html

[thailandchilli]

Coverups are reserved for the very top in the uk

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10950111/The-alleged-paedophile-ring-at-the-heart-of-the-British-Establishment.html

Hey great your able to dig into history and expose some of the failures in the UK, well done I'm sure if you carry on you'll find a whole lot more

The fact is however that we one of the biggest cover ups in the world occurring right now in Thailand, history is in the making and Thailand will regret this for eternity. I'm very well aware that you and jdinasia are convinced the killers have been found and will be convicted. Your dreaming however, because even if there is a conviction against these 2, they were not the killers and it will happen again, then what will you say.

The UK police will do its job and will do it well, unlike the RTP who have made it a shambles from the word go.

[jollyhangmon]

With the language differences it will be tough for the Britcops to get to the truth....unless of course the Britcops picked to come speak and read Thai!

Have you never heard of translators/interpreters?

... pretty sure they do have some more qualified bananapancakers to jump in ...

[kkup]

Remember.. The British police DO NOT believe the Thai Police version of events..They are not happy and are quite serious about finding the truth. The posters against them coming here and have some warped love affair with the RTP, you can go eat a big fat d. You're in the minority, not because of your intelligence.

I agree they do not have any right to arrest, interview etc... They don't need to, their number 1 priority will be to get into that DNA... My bet is they already know those kids are innocent (from Hannah) and are trying to save their lives. Or they are guilty but other people also need to be brought to justice.

[GAZZPA]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

To my knowledge no one has questioned jurisdiction, this is not about that.

Also, this is not Britain it is Thailand and it is more then well known that the legal system here can be bought. In this case 2 British citizens have been brutally murdered and the case screams of a cover up. Now, it my not be true but Britain would not be doing its job if it did not pressure the Thai government to allow Police to attend and "observe". This is what they have done and I applaud that. If it means the truth comes out then why not.

We have already seen many statements form the Thai police and PM that are contradictory, factually inaccurate and at times inappropriate.

If the "observing" British police do find something amiss they may have no jurisdiction but it does not mean it will be accepted and the Thai's can just do what they want. It will become a very serious problem for them.

I hope that the truth si finally revealed for the family and friends of the victims.

[a99az]

Cameron is now an expert on Thai justice. Boy does he need to open his eyes. Makes me want to puke.

[Bleacher Bum East]

is that wanted by thailand?

Suthep's pic with a suspect makes me think bad

No it is not wanted by Thailand and many people suspect ulterior motives for that ( me included).

However, if Suthep being in a photograph with suspected criminals, hoodlums, gangsters and assorted bad eggs makes you feel bad

I suggest you avoid all his photos where he is not alone.

thinking bad..but feeling good i mean i was always right about that man....

dont say its not wanted by thailand

its not wanted by influential people in the army and in the police...but lof of thais want it

My apologies for not being clear. I meant the Thai corrupt authorities.

I did not mean to cast doubt on the Thai people, I live here and know most Thai people to be warm and friendly

their presence on CSI LA gives all farangs hope for Thailands future The new generation will make Thailand a great

nation if the corruption can be stopped.

CSI LA g

Because the police in the UK are certainly not only professional.. They are above corruption and links to organized crime!!

This story will take some wind out of sails around here!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-investigation-after-2000-police-officers-are-implicated-in-corruption-9802832.html

OK, reports of corruption / misbehavior etc. but at least it's known and out in the open- unlike Thailand where every one of the BIB are perfectly clean, upfront and honest without any need to be investigated, where promotion is bought, traded for favours and corrupt to the core so therefore everything must be OK and honest. Think i would prefer the UK for its honesty than the criminal force passing itself off as the law and order in Thailand.

Strangely I can find many articles where corrupt RTP have been arrested here.

Edit

BTW the story just popped up on my Twitter feed talk about timing!!

So what exactly is your point as it relates to the investigation of David and Hannah' murder?

Is it:

a) Because there is some degree of corruption in UK law enforcement, that excuses corruption in Thai law enforcement, including if it exists in the Koh Tao murder investigation? (i.e. two wrongs make a legitimate whitewash?)

Because there is some degree of corruption in UK law enforcement, then the investigators that are sent to Thailand by the UK cannot be trusted?

c) something else that escapes everybody but you?

d) all of the above?

e) there is no point, it was just a convenient way to obfuscate the real issues and amuse yourself by annoying posters you knew would get easily annoyed

If it's c) or d), then please fill everyone in as to how exactly this article is relevant to the effort to reach the correct conclusion, whatever it might be, in the particular case of David and Hannah's murder.

[kaobang]

Cameron is now an expert on Thai justice. Boy does he need to open his eyes. Makes me want to puke.

i have seen lot of thai law,but not even a bit of justice at the moment

[Tanlic]

Please don´t forget,

we,the world and most of the thais want the real

slaughtermen and rapists.

And there are these kind of rats who got paid for

to cover up the crime,lie and protect the murderers.

Keep on fighting,make posts,give informations,send links and never stop

questioning

until real justice prevail

On what grounds?

On your say so or your imagination?

What do you know about what actually went on?............Nothing at a guess

I for one am not prepared to put pen to paper just because I know Thai police take tea money.

I certainly don't want to be partly responsible for letting 2 possible murderers go free.

The problem with people like you is no matter how much evidence the RTP came up with you would still say it was a fix.

The truth is the easiest way out for the TRP would be to have said we can't find the culprits not stitch someone up.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone had been murdered and the culprit disappeared into the night.

These 2 guys don't even have one witness to say they were elsewhere at the time of the crimes or anyone saying they know for sure it wasn't them.

All they have is people like you and your empty conspiracy theory’s kicking up a fuss that has gotten way out of control

Edited October 19, 2014 by Tanlic

[kaobang]

Please don´t forget,

we,the world and most of the thais want the real

slaughtermen and rapists.

And there are these kind of rats who got paid for

to cover up the crime,lie and protect the murderers.

Keep on fighting,make posts,give informations,send links and never stop

questioning

until real justice prevail

On what grounds?

On your say so or your imagination?

What do you know about what actually went on?............Nothing at a guess

I for one am not prepared to put pen to paper just because I know Thai police take tea money.

I certainly don't want to be partly responsible for letting 2 possible murderers go free.

The problem with people like you is no matter how much evidence the RTP came up with you would still say it was a fix.

The truth is the easiest way out for the TRP would be to have said we can't find the culprits not stitch someone up.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone had been murdered and the culprit disappeared into the night.

These 2 guys don't een have one witness to say they were elsewhere at the time of the crimes or anyone saying they no for sure it wsn't them.

All they have is people like you and your empty conspiracy theory’s kicking up a fuss that has gotten way out of control

so the ac bar owner son Nomsod is refusing to give his dna because??

https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210/photos/a.600950366649359.1073741828.596740650403664/721056521305409/?type=1&theater

Edited October 19, 2014 by kaobang

[jdinasia]

Today's story re: corruption in the UK police obviously shows that corruption is there as well. There is so much talk about the RTP. Including people saying they are corrupt to a man.

So far there's nothing other than innuendo to point at RTP corruption in the case currently being discussed.

Certainly THE RTP have talked too much during the early investigation...

[TTom911]

JTJ

Now if we accept what you say ( on hundreds of posts ) then the clear conclusion is as follows ;

The case is cut and dried.

The RTP have done a sound and professional job without fear or favour.

All the culprits have been identified and justice will be served.

The British Police will be observing only and will confirm all is well.

The negative media and online reports are purely the work of conspiracy nutters and bitter twisted individuals who hate Thailand and all its citizens.

There will be no negative consequencies whatsoever in regard to tourism or the reputation of Thailand or its present rulers.

So we have established these facts , are entirely satisfied that the whole affair is a storm in a tea cup that will blow away by next Tuesday around lunchtime.

So given all this one thing strikes me as odd , why do you keep banging on about it , why not just sit back and revel in the knowledge that you are right and the loonies are wrong . I read something once by some bloke who wrote that a lady 'Doth Protest too much ' , for some reason that pops into my head every time you post.

tooooo much for him to take in.....

[kaobang]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=720267834717611&set=vb.596740650403664&type=3&theater

[Bleacher Bum East]

Today's story re: corruption in the UK police obviously shows that corruption is there as well. There is so much talk about the RTP. Including people saying they are corrupt to a man.

So far there's nothing other than innuendo to point at RTP corruption in the case currently being discussed.

Certainly THE RTP have talked too much during the early investigation...

In other words, it has absolutely no bearing on the actual investigation into David and Hannah's murder.

I'd be willing to stipulate to the fact that there is corruption in every law enforcement organization worldwide.

BTW, you complain continuously about the use of a "straw man" by other posters ... so isn't making the statement "people saying they are corrupt to a man" the use of a straw man? Are you going to reply to your own post and demand links to multiple persons saying Thai police are "corrupt to a man"?

Before I said you were the Bill O'Reilly of TVC for your intellectual dishonesty, but I think you have quite a bit of Carl Rove in you as well ... concealing your own tactics by accusing others of doing exactly what you know you are doing.

[jdinasia]

My post has direct bearing on the topic of This thread.

Plus the knock on affect on the local credibility of the UK police.

If you like I will collect the links where members have stated either that the UK police are not corrupt or all of the Thai police are.

[Tanlic]

Please don´t forget,

we,the world and most of the thais want the real

slaughtermen and rapists.

And there are these kind of rats who got paid for

to cover up the crime,lie and protect the murderers.

Keep on fighting,make posts,give informations,send links and never stop

questioning

until real justice prevail

On what grounds?

On your say so or your imagination?

What do you know about what actually went on?............Nothing at a guess

I for one am not prepared to put pen to paper just because I know Thai police take tea money.

I certainly don't want to be partly responsible for letting 2 possible murderers go free.

The problem with people like you is no matter how much evidence the RTP came up with you would still say it was a fix.

The truth is the easiest way out for the TRP would be to have said we can't find the culprits not stitch someone up.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone had been murdered and the culprit disappeared into the night.

These 2 guys don't een have one witness to say they were elsewhere at the time of the crimes or anyone saying they no for sure it wsn't them.

All they have is people like you and your empty conspiracy theory’s kicking up a fuss that has gotten way out of control

so the ac bar owner son Nomsod is refusing to give his dna because??

https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210/photos/a.600950366649359.1073741828.596740650403664/721056521305409/?type=1&theater

Could it be because he is heavily into drugs?

[HughJass]

I think this was the moment that money started to change hands

police says he landed at the coast

- reportedly left island morning after murder

- his father said, he doesnt know if son was involved

- means - he DIDNT say, his son was not there

- report makes clear, why panya was promoted away from the case

Police free bar owners and look for ex-village headman's son

The Nation September 24, 2014 1:00 am

Police seeking former village headman's son who fled island

Police are looking for the son of a former Koh Tao village headman in their pursuit of the killers of two British backpackers on the night of September 14, after learning that the man left the island the following morning.

A police source said the man they want to find landed on the Surat Thani coast and disappeared. Police say they want to interrogate him first.

The police last night released two men, who own Intouch Bar and AC Pub on the resort island, after interrogating them for three hours and finding no evidence linking them to the crime.

One of the two men released last night, who reporters did not identify, said he was unable to contact his son and did not know if he had a hand in the killings.

Another man, the younger brother of the former village headman, who is believed to be the man seen on a security camera near the crime scene, is still in custody.

Pol Lt-General Panya Mamen, who is overseeing the investigation, said yesterday that the headman's son is believed to be hiding in Bangkok. Panya refused to reveal the suspects' names, saying police were questioning one man and expected to arrest another in Bangkok today.

Today marks the 10th day since David Miller and Hannah Witheridge were brutally murdered on the island. Both suffered serious head wounds, while police said Witheridge was also sexually assaulted.

"We expect results within 48 hours as DNA samples have been sent out for testing, and we are confident in this latest turn in the investigation," he said.

All sides should have confidence in the police investigation and believe that no scapegoats will be arrested so that the case can be closed, he said.

"The world has been watching the case and police has been doing what it can to ensure that the evidence obtained is strong and tight enough to arrest the killers," he said.

Panya also promised that the investigation would not be influenced by reports that some influential persons on the island might try to obstruct police work.

The chief investigator was speaking after police had summoned the owner of the Intouch Bar for questioning after investigators discovered that both victims had visited the bar and had had an altercation before they were found dead. Another person summoned was the owner of AC Pub, who local residents say is an influential person and the older brother of the man who owns Intouch Bar. Panya led the interrogation of both individuals.

Local people and tourism operators on the island yesterday attended an annual religious rite to make merit for their deceased loved ones. They also made merit for the slain Britons and prayed that the police would be able to arrest the killers.

Meanwhile, a police source said it was not possible that people on the island did not have any knowledge of what might have happened on the night of the murder. The source said may be they don't want to talk to police, as they do not want to have problems with an influential group.

Udom Tantiprasonchai, an executive with Orient Thai Airways, said he will add Bt500,000 to the bounty placed for arrest of the killers, Senee Puwasettathaworn, president of Koh Samui Tourism Association, said.

This sum will bring the total bounty up to Bt713,000.

Though the murders took place more than a week ago, and police have yet to charge anyone, tourism has not been affected too badly as it is still the low season. Local tourism operators, meanwhile, said they would not put any pressure on police, leaving them to focus on the job at hand

Edited October 19, 2014 by HughJass

[thailandchilli]

Please don´t forget,

we,the world and most of the thais want the real

slaughtermen and rapists.

And there are these kind of rats who got paid for

to cover up the crime,lie and protect the murderers.

Keep on fighting,make posts,give informations,send links and never stop

questioning

until real justice prevail

On what grounds?

On your say so or your imagination?

What do you know about what actually went on?............Nothing at a guess

I for one am not prepared to put pen to paper just because I know Thai police take tea money.

I certainly don't want to be partly responsible for letting 2 possible murderers go free.

The problem with people like you is no matter how much evidence the RTP came up with you would still say it was a fix.

The truth is the easiest way out for the TRP would be to have said we can't find the culprits not stitch someone up.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone had been murdered and the culprit disappeared into the night.

These 2 guys don't een have one witness to say they were elsewhere at the time of the crimes or anyone saying they no for sure it wsn't them.

All they have is people like you and your empty conspiracy theory’s kicking up a fuss that has gotten way out of control

so the ac bar owner son Nomsod is refusing to give his dna because??

https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210/photos/a.600950366649359.1073741828.596740650403664/721056521305409/?type=1&theater

Could it be because he is heavily into drugs?

Could it be because he is guilty?

[pendingo]

I despair.

No point in the UK police coming if all they can do is observe.

Thai justice prevails again.

[englishoak]

I despair.

No point in the UK police coming if all they can do is observe.

Thai justice prevails again.

I wouldnt believe the Thai media circus if I were you...

[beammeup]

 

Please don´t forget,

we,the world and most of the thais want the real

slaughtermen and rapists.

And there are these kind of rats who got paid for

to cover up the crime,lie and protect the murderers.

Keep on fighting,make posts,give informations,send links and never stop

questioning

until real justice prevail

On what grounds?

On your say so or your imagination?

What do you know about what actually went on?............Nothing at a guess

I for one am not prepared to put pen to paper just because I know Thai police take tea money.

I certainly don't want to be partly responsible for letting 2 possible murderers go free.

The problem with people like you is no matter how much evidence the RTP came up with you would still say it was a fix.

The truth is the easiest way out for the TRP would be to have said we can't find the culprits not stitch someone up.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone had been murdered and the culprit disappeared into the night.

These 2 guys don't een have one witness to say they were elsewhere at the time of the crimes or anyone saying they no for sure it wsn't them.

All they have is people like you and your empty conspiracy theory’s kicking up a fuss that has gotten way out of control

so the ac bar owner son Nomsod is refusing to give his dna because??

https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210/photos/a.600950366649359.1073741828.596740650403664/721056521305409/?type=1&theater

Could it be because he is heavily into drugs?

 

+ his father gave dna sample so he was cleared.

[Bleacher Bum East]

My post has direct bearing on the topic of This thread.

Plus the knock on affect on the local credibility of the UK police.

If you like I will collect the links where members have stated either that the UK police are not corrupt or all of the Thai police are.

OK ... if your point then is that the article you posted indicates that the UK investigators who come to Thailand may not be credible because there is some corruption in UK law enforcement, then you have now clearly (if belatedly) made your point that is relevant to the investigation, people can now agree or disagree, and you can defend your position.

No need for the links to your "straw men" because I personally am not bothered one way or the other---I tend to dismiss those making blanket generalizations.

But intellectual honesty means (1) holding clear and consistent positions that you are willing to produce support and/or coherent arguments for and not just assert, (2) holding yourself to the same standards that you hold others, and (3) not purposefully throwing red herring statements into a debate for the sole purpose of obfuscation and distraction away from other relevant and valid arguments. Try it ... it may not be as amusing, but it's much more rewarding.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[Thai at Heart]

I think with the 100,000 signatures on a petition in England, Cameron actually INVOLVED and the REQUEST for the English police to be involved...hmmm... I do not think this one is going to be brushed aside so fast even with THAINESS and a smile.

Same number of people signed a petition in the US to Obama to have Justin Bieber deported.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/18/deport-justin-bieber_n_5176202.html

1. United States of America is Not The United Kingdom (google those countries and add the words "Global Map)

2. Sensible people know these petitions are taken on merit.

Probably should add the UK is not Thailand too as well as the UK have absolutely no authority or say-so what-so-ever over criminal cases or evidence collected in Thailand.

Point being a petition is meaningless if what the petition is requesting is nonsense based or not really legally actionable even in a place like the US where the administration is required to respond if 100k signatures are gathered.

Actually not.

AFAIK this petition means that it will be presented to the PM and it will be raised as an issue in parliament.

Which unlike other more useless parliaments in the world mean that it will tend to get at least the attentiom of a local MP, but actually none other than the PM.

I think its a super system. Raise 100k supporters and raise your issue direct with the PM.

[pendingo]

I despair.

No point in the UK police coming if all they can do is observe.

Thai justice prevails again.

I wouldnt believe the Thai media circus if I were you...

Thank you for that englishoak..

I'd like to think they will be allowed to do more than observe.

Edited October 19, 2014 by pendingo

[jdinasia]

My post has direct bearing on the topic of This thread.

Plus the knock on affect on the local credibility of the UK police.

If you like I will collect the links where members have stated either that the UK police are not corrupt or all of the Thai police are.

OK ... if your point then is that the article you posted indicates that the UK investigators who come to Thailand may not be credible because there is some corruption in UK law enforcement, then you have now clearly (if belatedly) made your point that is relevant to the investigation, people can now agree or disagree, and you can defend your position.

No need for the links to your "straw men" because I personally am not bothered one way or the other---I tend to dismiss those making blanket generalizations.

But intellectual honesty means (1) holding clear and consistent positions that you are willing to produce support and/or coherent arguments for and not just assert, (2) holding yourself to the same standards that you hold others, and (3) not purposefully throwing red herring statements into a debate for the sole purpose of obfuscation and distraction away from other relevant and valid arguments. Try it ... it may not be as amusing, but it's much more rewarding.

1: I do

2: I do

3: I don't.

Feel free to comment on the threads.. Add some input... And avoid just Comments about posters

PS. You are not using straw man fallacy correctly

Obviously the UK police' credibility is an issue. So many claims have been made regarding it. I looked at Twitter tonight and a fresh corruption scandal investigation is going on.