UK cops 'to only observe'

[Pattaya46]

No I used "we" as in all of us; when the trial takes place.

In such case, "we" will see nothing during the trial.

With Thai system "we" will have to wait for the trial to finish to see what happened.

[Bleacher Bum East]

The following is from the 300+ page UK Murder Investigation Manual, 2006.

8.2 DEATH OF A UK CITIZEN ABROAD

Where a UK citizen dies in suspicious or violent circumstances abroad it will be investigated by the appropriate authorities in that country. There are, however, circumstances where a UK police force may become involved. These are:

• A request for assistance from the family of a person who dies abroad;

8.2.1 ASSISTING THE FAMILY

Police are sometimes asked by relatives to help them establish the circumstances in which a family member died abroad, or to establish the whereabouts of a family member who has gone missing abroad. These circumstances can arise where the family are dissatisfied with the investigation into the death, or where contact has suddenly ceased between the family member and their relatives. The FCO serves as a gateway for relatives who express such concerns. The role of SIOs in these cases is one of facilitating communication between the family and the FCO, rather than to actively investigate the matter.

8.2.3 CONDUCTING HOMICIDE ENQUIRIES THROUGH THE FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE

8.2.3.1 General Principles

UK police officers have no power to conduct investigations abroad. Investigative activity in another country can only take place with the cooperation of the country concerned. The FCO will provide liaison and coordination with foreign police and government agencies where an allegation is made to a UK police force that the death of a UK citizen abroad is a homicide.

Is this UK statutory law or a policy manual?

In either event, there are important policy reasons why a government would want to tell it's citizens that it will not and cannot investigate crimes abroad. For one, it would mean they could be asked to investigate thousands of crimes all over the world. For another, it would cause obvious diplomatic problems of a high degree. And there are equally valid reasons why a country would not want other countries to come in and have any official investigative law enforcement powers within their jurisdiction.

But there can be exceptions to policy in some circumstances where the benefits of contravening the policy (or interpreting it broadly ... e.g. what the terms "investigation" and "coordination" and "laison"mean) outweigh the harms of not sticking to the policy. This happens very rarely ... because if you bend the policy in one instance you have to explain why you will not bend it in the others. The question is whether this is one of those circumstances where it is worth contravening the normal policy.

The other question is whether it would be against either Thai or UK law to do so ... because the UK investigators do need to stay within the confines of both country's laws. Acting outside of those laws would be extremely self-defeating.

Countries do conduct investigations in other countries, without enforcement powers, in some circumstances. I believe there was recently coordination between US law enforcement and Thai law enforcement regarding the arrest of a hit man in Phuket, and don't think there is any serious doubt that US personnel were in Thailand and involved in that investigation.

Whether the UK can legally perform any type of investigation here, and even if it can whether it will, I don't know. But if it can I hope it does, because I think it would be a benefit to everyone involved, including Thailand and the Thai people that I care very much about. In this situation, my opinion is that the benefits outweigh the detriments for both sides.

[jdinasia]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

The RTA already gets training from the US.

The US also do training with Thai police and Thais get the FBI involved in cases they need help but of course this doesn't match with the reason they don't get training from the UK or ask them to help with this case because of losing face.

But apparently none of this matter since Thailand may not exist much longer without the UK training of Thai police in order to help save the nation..

Edit: No to mention UK police already have (and possibly continue to) provide training to Thai police.

All this tuition to no avail, the Thai police are not very receptive are they.

They seem quite receptive when the case is not strictly an internal matter. They work with foreign police regularly to arrest and deport foreign nationals wanted at home.

[jdinasia]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

The RTA already gets training from the US.

The US also do training with Thai police and Thais get the FBI involved in cases they need help but of course this doesn't match with the reason they don't get training from the UK or ask them to help with this case because of losing face.

But apparently none of this matter since Thailand may not exist much longer without the UK training of Thai police in order to help save the nation..

Edit: No to mention UK police already have (and possibly continue to) provide training to Thai police.

All this tuition to no avail, the Thai police are not very receptive are they.

They seem quite receptive when the case is not strictly an internal matter. They work with foreign police regularly to arrest and deport foreign nationals wanted at home.

[jdinasia]

No I used "we" as in all of us; when the trial takes place.

In such case, "we" will see nothing during the trial.

With Thai system "we" will have to wait for the trial to finish to see what happened.

Foreign observers have been approved for this trial.

[Bleacher Bum East]

No. You are creating a straw man fallacy again.

I was dealing with the claim that all such training ended and other statements that such training should occur.

You are the one suggesting I meant something else.

I wasn't implying anything, I was asking...You said that the US is training Thai police...I was asking how that relates to the Koh Tao investigation...Because if there is a relationship, I would be interested to know what it is.

However, I just reread your above post and your original response ... and you are right, you were not asserting that there is a relationship between the US training and the Koh Tao investigation ... you were replying to a poster stating that the UK police should train the Thai police by stating that the US police already train the Thai police. There was no implication by you that this had a relationship to Koh Tao.

My mistake ... and I apologize for misreading your comment and assuming it implied something it did not.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[JLCrab]

From above Post #644 The question is whether this is one of those circumstances where it is worth contravening the normal policy. The other question is whether it would be against either Thai or UK law to do so

It would against the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations (19632) to which both Thailand and UK are parties. I quoted from the UK Document that was "Produced on behalf of the Association of Chief Police Officers by the National Centre for Policing Excellence" If you have any further questions, ask them.

Edited October 20, 2014 by JLCrab

[heyexile]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

The RTA already gets training from the US.

Not at present. Not since the coup.

AFAIK only one training was cancelled for the RTP

Not according to the Guardian, USA Today, Al Jazeera etc

"Joint military and police training exercises cancelled" Joint as in US-Thai.

BTW No dna material sent to Singapore. Another disinformation from high rankers at head of police.

We cant prove a negative, but you should be easily able to prove a positive, if you still believe the police.

We will see in court if they sent anything to Singapore.

I am personally aware of training happening on some levels. Such as CULP. I am only aware of one police training being cancelled. I will ask around tmw to see if any other police trainings were also cancelled. (CULP has a FB page)

Thank you for the `IF` at last Who is the `we` you refer to? Would that be you and a wealthy Thai land owning family. What would I be in court for? I doubt the EU would agree to extradition for doubting the veracity of some police statement. IF it is shown inconclusively that any commercial or institutional lab in Singapore has been used, then I would be the first to apologize.

I seem to be receiving a few veiled threats on here recently.

PS Maybe you used "we" as in "I", as some royals do.,

No I used "we" as in all of us; when the trial takes place.

Yes, fair enough But if the `scapegoats` plead guilty in court then no evidence will be presented. They will have been in the hands of their captors in Ko Samui prison for a while and possibly subject to more persuasions and dire threats. If evidence is presented, will the court proceedings be open to the British press or will it be closed with reporting restrictions. Fair and transparent There are already enough innocent victims of this tragedy. Just don`t want to see 2 more and many would not blame me for having legitimate concerns re Thai judiciary, police and current regime.

[Jonmarleesco]

'... Cameron expected the British public to "take some more time to understand this matter".' Seems they understand enough to submit a one-hundred-thousand-signature petition to 10 Downing Street.

[Thaddeus]

They seem quite receptive when the case is not strictly an internal matter. They work with foreign police regularly to arrest and deport foreign nationals wanted at home.

Yep, because they are foreign, if an important Thai national may be implicated, plod becomes shuffle.

[Bleacher Bum East]

From above Post #644 The question is whether this is one of those circumstances where it is worth contravening the normal policy. The other question is whether it would be against either Thai or UK law to do so

It would against the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations (19632) to which both Thailand and UK are parties. I quoted from the UK Document that was "Produced on behalf of the Association of Chief Police Officers by the National Centre for Policing Excellence" If you have any further questions, ask them.

If what you say is correct, then you are right. The UK should not violate it's agreement under the Geneva Convention, and I'm sure it will not in this particular case.

It will interesting to see what they actually do when they arrive, and what they report when it is all finished.

[JLCrab]

From above Post #644 The question is whether this is one of those circumstances where it is worth contravening the normal policy. The other question is whether it would be against either Thai or UK law to do so

It would against the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations (19632) to which both Thailand and UK are parties. I quoted from the UK Document that was "Produced on behalf of the Association of Chief Police Officers by the National Centre for Policing Excellence" If you have any further questions, ask them.

If what you say is correct, then you are right. The UK should not violate it's agreement under the Geneva Convention, and I'm sure it will not in this particular case.

It will interesting to see what they actually do when they arrive, and what they report when it is all finished.

I posted the above after long hunting and reading to show that there is established UK procedure for investigating murders of citizens abroad and that the mechanism was most likely well in the works regardless of petitions or social media. All it would take to instigate is one of the two victims family's contacting their local authority. That both PM's were at a timely meeting in Milan scheduled long before September 2014 is only a coincidence.

The relevant Article of the 'Vienna Convention on Consular Relations' is Article 55:

Respect for the laws and regulations of the receiving State

1.Without prejudice to their privileges and immunities, it is the duty of all persons enjoying such

privileges and immunities to respect the laws and regulations of the receiving State. They also have a

duty not to interfere in the internal affairs of the State.

Edited October 20, 2014 by JLCrab

[jdinasia]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

The RTA already gets training from the US.

Not at present. Not since the coup.

AFAIK only one training was cancelled for the RTP

Not according to the Guardian, USA Today, Al Jazeera etc

"Joint military and police training exercises cancelled" Joint as in US-Thai.

BTW No dna material sent to Singapore. Another disinformation from high rankers at head of police.

We cant prove a negative, but you should be easily able to prove a positive, if you still believe the police.

We will see in court if they sent anything to Singapore.

I am personally aware of training happening on some levels. Such as CULP. I am only aware of one police training being cancelled. I will ask around tmw to see if any other police trainings were also cancelled. (CULP has a FB page)

Thank you for the `IF` at last Who is the `we` you refer to? Would that be you and a wealthy Thai land owning family. What would I be in court for? I doubt the EU would agree to extradition for doubting the veracity of some police statement. IF it is shown inconclusively that any commercial or institutional lab in Singapore has been used, then I would be the first to apologize.

I seem to be receiving a few veiled threats on here recently.

PS Maybe you used "we" as in "I", as some royals do.,

No I used "we" as in all of us; when the trial takes place.

Yes, fair enough But if the `scapegoats` plead guilty in court then no evidence will be presented. They will have been in the hands of their captors in Ko Samui prison for a while and possibly subject to more persuasions and dire threats. If evidence is presented, will the court proceedings be open to the British press or will it be closed with reporting restrictions. Fair and transparent There are already enough innocent victims of this tragedy. Just don`t want to see 2 more and many would not blame me for having legitimate concerns re Thai judiciary, police and current regime.

The UK and Myanmar will have observers in court.

[penwithcris]

Look at the individuals bashing the British Police.

Let me ask you one question!

If one of your family members was murdered which police force would you TRUST to investigate?

1. RTP

2. British Police

Choose wisely...

[timewilltell]

From above Post #644 The question is whether this is one of those circumstances where it is worth contravening the normal policy. The other question is whether it would be against either Thai or UK law to do so

It would against the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations (19632) to which both Thailand and UK are parties. I quoted from the UK Document that was "Produced on behalf of the Association of Chief Police Officers by the National Centre for Policing Excellence" If you have any further questions, ask them.

If what you say is correct, then you are right. The UK should not violate it's agreement under the Geneva Convention, and I'm sure it will not in this particular case.

It will interesting to see what they actually do when they arrive, and what they report when it is all finished.

I posted the above after long hunting and reading to show that there is established UK procedure for investigating murders of citizens abroad and that the mechanism was most likely well in the works regardless of petitions or social media. All it would take to instigate is one of the two victims family's contacting their local authority. That both PM's were at a timely meeting in Milan scheduled long before September 2014 is only a coincidence.

The relevant Article of the 'Vienna Convention on Consular Relations' is Article 55:

Respect for the laws and regulations of the receiving State

1.Without prejudice to their privileges and immunities, it is the duty of all persons enjoying such

privileges and immunities to respect the laws and regulations of the receiving State. They also have a

duty not to interfere in the internal affairs of the State.

There is nothing in that clause that prevents co-operation with the police force of another country. It is common practice and in Europe even International Arrest warrants which can be exercised between member states. The Article you refer to relates to Consular Staff not to police. British police do not have jurisdiction here but that does not prevent them working with or asking questions of the Thai police. It is up to the Thais however as whether they wish to answer those questions and co-operate or whether to snub the British.

Unfortunately Thailand has much too much to lose from someone exposing any scapegoats and cover up since it has been sanctioned (the investigation I mean) at the highest levels. Face will prevail whether right or wrong at this stage since lines have been drawn.

However if I were the Myanmar consul then I would ask my counterpart in the UK if they could provide samples of The DNA found in Hannah & David. Then go to prison and take samples from the two Burmese lads and send off to compare. No need to ask Thailand anything! But then I never was a great diplomat!

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Edited October 20, 2014 by timewilltell

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[draftvader]

Please don´t forget,

we,the world and most of the thais want the real

slaughtermen and rapists.

And there are these kind of rats who got paid for

to cover up the crime,lie and protect the murderers.

Keep on fighting,make posts,give informations,send links and never stop

questioning

until real justice prevail

On what grounds?

On your say so or your imagination?

What do you know about what actually went on?............Nothing at a guess

I for one am not prepared to put pen to paper just because I know Thai police take tea money.

I certainly don't want to be partly responsible for letting 2 possible murderers go free.

The problem with people like you is no matter how much evidence the RTP came up with you would still say it was a fix.

The truth is the easiest way out for the TRP would be to have said we can't find the culprits not stitch someone up.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone had been murdered and the culprit disappeared into the night.

These 2 guys don't een have one witness to say they were elsewhere at the time of the crimes or anyone saying they no for sure it wsn't them.

All they have is people like you and your empty conspiracy theory’s kicking up a fuss that has gotten way out of control

so the ac bar owner son Nomsod is refusing to give his dna because??

https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210/photos/a.600950366649359.1073741828.596740650403664/721056521305409/?type=1&theater

Could it be because he is heavily into drugs?

+ his father gave dna sample so he was cleared.

....and we can be sure that he is really the father? How?

[harrry]

The bottom line is this is a criminal case and Thai authorities don't need the UK help in solving the crime --- So, they are not going to be asked, nor will the UK ask, for them to be involved in the investigation. Observers, sure as this is not uncommon and while Thai authorities often get assistance from the FBI (despite uniformed statements to the contrary here), in the David Caradine murder the FBI were just observers because Thais didn't need their help despite public doubt on the official reports.

Not quite.

THe British police wwill not interfere with the case here. They will however collect as much evidence including DNA with and without the Local Police assistance. They will ask questions and collect details they think may be relevant from any person willing to give it and covertly if they need too. They will then present that evidence to the Coroner. In about another 6 months, just about the time an election is proposed here the coroner's inquest is in full swing and in England it is quite possible for the coronor to indicate that the person died probably at the hands of XXX and YYY. the police would then have to issue an arrest warrant as murder is an offence which can be prosecuted in the UK wherever it happens. Rather a potentially embarrasing can of worms.

[boomerangutang]

At least it's a start. Once here I am sure they can look more in depth than any CSI LA or TV arm chair detective. They will have done a DNA on the victims in the UK. I don't doubt they will get DNA from the 2 goats in Samui. That's all they need do. From there all hell will break loose..... "UK POLICE CHALLENGE THE THAILAND DNA RESULTS"

I'm glad 'you are sure' ....but I'm not. It's now become a game of one-upmanship, and because the playing field is in Thailand (with Thai refs), the Brits will have to back down.

They can do their own accurate DNA tests without even coming to Thailand, I don't understand why they haven't. Maybe they have and are not saying or maybe they haven't thought about this yet. The UK have the bodies and the DNA inside of Hannah. They could easily get the DNA of the accused from family. This only has to be so much as a hair from a hair brush or a toothbrush they have used. Why is nobody doing this?

You're assuming Brit authorities will do the right and honest thing. To assume that, would preclude power politics and diplomacy. The Thai-orchestrated frame up will prevail. There's too much at stake for the Thai officialdom facing loss of careers.

Observe what? Isn't the investigation completed?

Yes, in a zen-like way. The investigation was 'completed' as soon as the replacement top cop was appointed by our self-appointed PM. The next day (after 2 weeks by prior boss) the 2 Burmese were arrested, the former suspects (who are very likely the actual murderers) were excused. A few hours later, the DNA matched the Burmese, the farcial reenactment, ....and that was supposed to wrap it up, as far as Thai officialdom was concerned.

But wait a cottonpickenminute, those pesky farang with their social media kept making a lot of posts. So, WE ARE the ones keeping this case from being wrapped up. Congradulations to us, because we're hopefully going to keep the Burmese scapegoats from getting phucked over by Thai officialdom.

[Credo]

Would the UK have been able to collect DNA off the victims? It does degrade after time and the bodies had been handled and cleaned by the Thais before being sent back to the UK.

[jdinasia]

The bottom line is this is a criminal case and Thai authorities don't need the UK help in solving the crime --- So, they are not going to be asked, nor will the UK ask, for them to be involved in the investigation. Observers, sure as this is not uncommon and while Thai authorities often get assistance from the FBI (despite uniformed statements to the contrary here), in the David Caradine murder the FBI were just observers because Thais didn't need their help despite public doubt on the official reports.

Not quite.

THe British police wwill not interfere with the case here. They will however collect as much evidence including DNA with and without the Local Police assistance. They will ask questions and collect details they think may be relevant from any person willing to give it and covertly if they need too. They will then present that evidence to the Coroner. In about another 6 months, just about the time an election is proposed here the coroner's inquest is in full swing and in England it is quite possible for the coronor to indicate that the person died probably at the hands of XXX and YYY. the police would then have to issue an arrest warrant as murder is an offence which can be prosecuted in the UK wherever it happens. Rather a potentially embarrasing can of worms.

Can you give one example of when any of those things have happened? UK police breaking protocol. Conducting an illegal investigation on sovereign territory of another country... Or even an inquest Into the death of a citizen overseas naming a suspect?

Just one example will suffice.

[boomerangutang]

No I used "we" as in all of us; when the trial takes place.

In such case, "we" will see nothing during the trial.

With Thai system "we" will have to wait for the trial to finish to see what happened.

It's not for sure there will be a real trial. If Thai officialdom had its way (before us pesky farang made scenes on social media) then the Burmese would continue to be railroaded to long prison terms or death. There probably will be some sort of trial, but who are the judges? They're Thai, they're in the system (along with cops, army, politicians and village headmen). Posters like JTJ will believe all that Thai officialdom dishes out, but most of us will expect Thai judges to go with the flow. A judge would almost have to have a death-wish to go counter to the monolithic establishment, all of whom are going full tilt for a frame-up of the Burmese, while ignoring the 900 gorilla in the middle of the room: I'm referring, to those WHO SHOULD BE prime suspects: ...the headman's son, brother, and others in that group.

[jdinasia]

And again foreign observers in court.

[jdinasia]

Would the UK have been able to collect DNA off the victims? It does degrade after time and the bodies had been handled and cleaned by the Thais before being sent back to the UK.

Autopsies were performed on both victims in Thailand. I doubt any foreign DNA was left on them. Then the question arises. Was formalyn used to preserve the corpses before shipping? I think it is required if the bodies were sent via commercial flight.

[heyexile]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

The RTA already gets training from the US.

Not at present. Not since the coup.

AFAIK only one training was cancelled for the RTP

Not according to the Guardian, USA Today, Al Jazeera etc

"Joint military and police training exercises cancelled" Joint as in US-Thai.

BTW No dna material sent to Singapore. Another disinformation from high rankers at head of police.

We cant prove a negative, but you should be easily able to prove a positive, if you still believe the police.

We will see in court if they sent anything to Singapore.

I am personally aware of training happening on some levels. Such as CULP. I am only aware of one police training being cancelled. I will ask around tmw to see if any other police trainings were also cancelled. (CULP has a FB page)

Thank you for the `IF` at last Who is the `we` you refer to? Would that be you and a wealthy Thai land owning family. What would I be in court for? I doubt the EU would agree to extradition for doubting the veracity of some police statement. IF it is shown inconclusively that any commercial or institutional lab in Singapore has been used, then I would be the first to apologize.

I seem to be receiving a few veiled threats on here recently.

PS Maybe you used "we" as in "I", as some royals do.,

No I used "we" as in all of us; when the trial takes place.

Yes, fair enough But if the `scapegoats` plead guilty in court then no evidence will be presented. They will have been in the hands of their captors in Ko Samui prison for a while and possibly subject to more persuasions and dire threats. If evidence is presented, will the court proceedings be open to the British press or will it be closed with reporting restrictions. Fair and transparent There are already enough innocent victims of this tragedy. Just don`t want to see 2 more and many would not blame me for having legitimate concerns re Thai judiciary, police and current regime.

The UK and Myanmar will have observers in court.

Oh well, nothing to worry about. Will they be allowed to take notes, tweet can they take translators etc?

But the British press will not be allowed in court then. Fair and transparent, the Thai judiciary.

[jdinasia]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

The RTA already gets training from the US.

Not at present. Not since the coup.

AFAIK only one training was cancelled for the RTP

Not according to the Guardian, USA Today, Al Jazeera etc

"Joint military and police training exercises cancelled" Joint as in US-Thai.

BTW No dna material sent to Singapore. Another disinformation from high rankers at head of police.

We cant prove a negative, but you should be easily able to prove a positive, if you still believe the police.

We will see in court if they sent anything to Singapore.

I am personally aware of training happening on some levels. Such as CULP. I am only aware of one police training being cancelled. I will ask around tmw to see if any other police trainings were also cancelled. (CULP has a FB page)

Thank you for the `IF` at last Who is the `we` you refer to? Would that be you and a wealthy Thai land owning family. What would I be in court for? I doubt the EU would agree to extradition for doubting the veracity of some police statement. IF it is shown inconclusively that any commercial or institutional lab in Singapore has been used, then I would be the first to apologize.

I seem to be receiving a few veiled threats on here recently.

PS Maybe you used "we" as in "I", as some royals do.,

No I used "we" as in all of us; when the trial takes place.

Yes, fair enough But if the `scapegoats` plead guilty in court then no evidence will be presented. They will have been in the hands of their captors in Ko Samui prison for a while and possibly subject to more persuasions and dire threats. If evidence is presented, will the court proceedings be open to the British press or will it be closed with reporting restrictions. Fair and transparent There are already enough innocent victims of this tragedy. Just don`t want to see 2 more and many would not blame me for having legitimate concerns re Thai judiciary, police and current regime.

The UK and Myanmar will have observers in court.

Oh well, nothing to worry about. Will they be allowed to take notes, tweet can they take translators etc?

But the British press will not be allowed in court then. Fair and transparent, the Thai judiciary.

Umm what is your issue with the courts? Seriously! You surely are aware that many places do not allow recording, right?

As for foreign press? Many places do not allow the press.

Translators? One would assume that both embassies have Thai speakers on staff, wouldn't one?

[catsanddogs]

The deputy prime minister General Prawit Wongsuwan told reporters -

"We have no problem with British police coming in to help investigate this case,"

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/20/us-thailand-britain-murder-idUSKCN0I915L20141020

Edited October 20, 2014 by catsanddogs

[Johnsen]

I hope they get a close look at Nomsods university photo alibi. Everybody who has not seen it with an interest in this case simply must have a look at it. Its priceless and without doubt the worst photo shopping you could ever do. The bottom part of the door appears open yet the middle part where the red paint is suggests its closed. The black lines around his arm is horrific and there is no shadow on the ground from his body. Its absolute gold. That lawyer parading that in his defence should hide in shame. Pathetic. That right there is the biggest indication of his guilt so far.. Well that and refusing a DNA test.

Seriously people if you have any doubt he is guilty take a look. All the rebuttlers out there please explain cause only a child brain could submit and believe that. Honestly ....

[IslandLover]

hardyh, on 20 Oct 2014 - 09:14, said:

JohnThailandJohn, on 20 Oct 2014 - 08:29, said:

I could care less who checks or rechecks evidence but you have to be realistic and see the bigger political picture.

So you do care? Or do you mean couldn't (could not)?....

JTJ is either an American or learned his English in the U.S. "I could care less" is a dead giveaway

[Johnsen]

Wow, suffocation with a plastic bag. That's pretty serious. Actually that could be construed as attempted murder. If they get released can the Burmese lads press charges... Inhumane and all starting to unravel for the individuals involved... How much longer can this nonsense go on. Release them already...