UK cops 'to only observe'

[spud1]

I hope they get a close look at Nomsods university photo alibi. Everybody who has not seen it with an interest in this case simply must have a look at it. Its priceless and without doubt the worst photo shopping you could ever do. The bottom part of the door appears open yet the middle part where the red paint is suggests its closed. The black lines around his arm is horrific and there is no shadow on the ground from his body. Its absolute gold. That lawyer parading that in his defence should hide in shame. Pathetic. That right there is the biggest indication of his guilt so far.. Well that and refusing a DNA test.

Seriously people if you have any doubt he is guilty take a look. All the rebuttlers out there please explain cause only a child brain could submit and believe that. Honestly ....

JD will be along shortly.

[IslandLover]

docshock13, on 20 Oct 2014 - 07:24, said:

Johnsen, on 20 Oct 2014 - 06:41, said:

Wow, what about reports coming in about this A/C bar. Apparently another murder there new years eve 02/03. Multiple, multiple reports of druggings. Allegedly they are responsible for burning down another competitors bar for being too successful and then running the owners off of the island.

Do some Google searches people. The place is out of control. These people need to be stopped. Some people on the island are now even posting names and photos of the guilty people. You just couldn't make the horror stories up. Its inhumane. Forget these 2 British kids. A world run investigation into every death on the island needs to be done. Simply shocking and to think these people from the A/C bar have been allowed to get away with it for so long... No wonder they didn't try to hide the bodies. This is everyday business for them. If the truth ever comes out the islands are finished and the many people involved should b in jail for life, police included. How can human beings in positions of power employed to serve and protect allow this to happen. Its just not human.

Yep. Just typed in AC Bar Koh Tao mafia and found lots terrible reviews on tripadvisor about this place:

"The men working there kept eyeing up my girlfriend trying to give her free drinks.

Not sure what they where up to, but we felt very uncomfortable there and was glad to leave."

"Terrible establishment. Aggressive locals and there was what appeared to be a turd in the middle on the floor when I was there."

"Unsafe place,very loud, wifi not work,standard room very expencive.smelly shower,very rude stuff,definatly i will never ever come back this place.good points....i didnt find any,worst place in thailand."

"My friend was harrassed at the bar by drug dealer."

"Stay here only if you want to give your money to money grabbing, honourless, rude and horrible people." etc. etc

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g303910-d1098045-r234854599-AC_Resort-Ko_Tao_Surat_Thani_Province.html

To be fair, most, if not all of those reviews since the murders have been planted by the CSILA crowd as part of their harrassment campaign. However, if you read the reviews before the murders, going back some time, they are almost as bad! If any establishment deserved to be closed down, this place certainly does.

[heyexile]

Would the UK have been able to collect DNA off the victims? It does degrade after time and the bodies had been handled and cleaned by the Thais before being sent back to the UK.

That is the big question. Coroner`s inquest now adjourned to 14th Jan. A uk pathology report must have been prepared for the inquest and prior to release of deceased to relatives for funerals. After thorough cleaning and poss embalming by Thai authorities, who knows what traces remained.

That makes the big IF of Singapore even more troubling. Lets hope UK have something as the 2 main concerns of British `observer`/investigative mission are stated as 1) DNA matching and 2) violently forced confessions.

[heyexile]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

The RTA already gets training from the US.

Not at present. Not since the coup.

AFAIK only one training was cancelled for the RTP

Not according to the Guardian, USA Today, Al Jazeera etc

"Joint military and police training exercises cancelled" Joint as in US-Thai.

BTW No dna material sent to Singapore. Another disinformation from high rankers at head of police.

We cant prove a negative, but you should be easily able to prove a positive, if you still believe the police.

We will see in court if they sent anything to Singapore.

I am personally aware of training happening on some levels. Such as CULP. I am only aware of one police training being cancelled. I will ask around tmw to see if any other police trainings were also cancelled. (CULP has a FB page)

Thank you for the `IF` at last Who is the `we` you refer to? Would that be you and a wealthy Thai land owning family. What would I be in court for? I doubt the EU would agree to extradition for doubting the veracity of some police statement. IF it is shown inconclusively that any commercial or institutional lab in Singapore has been used, then I would be the first to apologize.

I seem to be receiving a few veiled threats on here recently.

PS Maybe you used "we" as in "I", as some royals do.,

No I used "we" as in all of us; when the trial takes place.

Yes, fair enough But if the `scapegoats` plead guilty in court then no evidence will be presented. They will have been in the hands of their captors in Ko Samui prison for a while and possibly subject to more persuasions and dire threats. If evidence is presented, will the court proceedings be open to the British press or will it be closed with reporting restrictions. Fair and transparent There are already enough innocent victims of this tragedy. Just don`t want to see 2 more and many would not blame me for having legitimate concerns re Thai judiciary, police and current regime.

The UK and Myanmar will have observers in court.

Oh well, nothing to worry about. Will they be allowed to take notes, tweet can they take translators etc?

But the British press will not be allowed in court then. Fair and transparent, the Thai judiciary.

Umm what is your issue with the courts? Seriously! You surely are aware that many places do not allow recording, right?

As for foreign press? Many places do not allow the press.

Translators? One would assume that both embassies have Thai speakers on staff, wouldn't one?

One would and one does. I did not mention recording, I asked if note taking was allowed. You are happy that press will be denied access it seems. Two wrongs do not make a right. The fact that some other countries` judicial systems may be as loaded and untransparant as Thailand`s idoes not make it right.

[jdinasia]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

The RTA already gets training from the US.

Not at present. Not since the coup.

AFAIK only one training was cancelled for the RTP

Not according to the Guardian, USA Today, Al Jazeera etc

"Joint military and police training exercises cancelled" Joint as in US-Thai.

BTW No dna material sent to Singapore. Another disinformation from high rankers at head of police.

We cant prove a negative, but you should be easily able to prove a positive, if you still believe the police.

We will see in court if they sent anything to Singapore.

I am personally aware of training happening on some levels. Such as CULP. I am only aware of one police training being cancelled. I will ask around tmw to see if any other police trainings were also cancelled. (CULP has a FB page)

Thank you for the `IF` at last Who is the `we` you refer to? Would that be you and a wealthy Thai land owning family. What would I be in court for? I doubt the EU would agree to extradition for doubting the veracity of some police statement. IF it is shown inconclusively that any commercial or institutional lab in Singapore has been used, then I would be the first to apologize.

I seem to be receiving a few veiled threats on here recently.

PS Maybe you used "we" as in "I", as some royals do.,

No I used "we" as in all of us; when the trial takes place.

Yes, fair enough But if the `scapegoats` plead guilty in court then no evidence will be presented. They will have been in the hands of their captors in Ko Samui prison for a while and possibly subject to more persuasions and dire threats. If evidence is presented, will the court proceedings be open to the British press or will it be closed with reporting restrictions. Fair and transparent There are already enough innocent victims of this tragedy. Just don`t want to see 2 more and many would not blame me for having legitimate concerns re Thai judiciary, police and current regime.

The UK and Myanmar will have observers in court.

Oh well, nothing to worry about. Will they be allowed to take notes, tweet can they take translators etc?

But the British press will not be allowed in court then. Fair and transparent, the Thai judiciary.

Umm what is your issue with the courts? Seriously! You surely are aware that many places do not allow recording, right?

As for foreign press? Many places do not allow the press.

Translators? One would assume that both embassies have Thai speakers on staff, wouldn't one?

One would and one does. I did not mention recording, I asked if note taking was allowed. You are happy that press will be denied access it seems. Two wrongs do not make a right. The fact that some other countries` judicial systems may be as loaded and untransparant as Thailand`s idoes not make it right.

You really should visit and spend more time in Thailand.

Very seriously you should!

Can you think of any reasons that court proceedings would not be open? If not then you have not spent any real time here.

As for the rest of your statement... Court officers (prosecution) have again declined to file murder charges.

[PaPiPuPePo]

The debate about the role that the UK government can and should play in the investigation of Hannah and David's death is a legitimate one involving many considerations by all involved. And it is not an easy black-and-white issue to resolve, because what ultimately happens has many ramifications outside this particular case.

My opinion is that the UK investigators should essentially act as private investigators on behalf of Hannah and David's family, who are UK citizens. Here is why:

Many parties (everyone actually) have an interest in bringing Hannah and David's attackers and killers to justice, but the supreme interest is held by their families.

If Hanna and David's families wanted to do so, they could hire a private investigator to collect and examine evidence, search for and interview witnesses, and review any evidence the Thai police was either willing to provide access to or made public.

The PI would have no legal authority to require cooperation from witnesses, search premises, etc., and definitely not to prosecute the case. The PI would be legally acting in a private (non-Thai government or law enforcement) capacity on behalf of the families.

When finished obtaining and analyzing the available evidence, the PI could report back to the families exactly what evidence it has collected and reviewed, as well as what evidence it has not had access to. It could also offer an expert opinion on the quality of that evidence, discrepancies and conflicts contained in the evidence, as well as on police procedures in gathering, handling and analyzing evidence.

The PI could also provide its expert opinion, based on the evidence it has seen and analyzed, as to who committed the crimes (if the PI believes it has sufficient proof to say beyond a reasonable doubt) and who did not commit the crimes (again, if sufficient proof is in hand beyond a reasonable doubt). In the alternative, if the PI does not have sufficient proof to say, in his or her expert opinion, who did or did not commit the crimes beyond a reasonable doubt, the report can state that also.

The PI could then offer all of the evidence it has collected as an independent investigator to both the prosecution and the defense, to use as they wish. Whether it aids the prosecution or the defense should not be of concern, because they are only interested in justice, finding the real killers.

Finally, the PI could observe the trial and compare what is offered as evidence in court with what they discovered in their own investigation. Then they could report back to the families as to whether what went into either convicting or exonerating the accused matched with what they discovered, and deliver an expert opinion as to whether it was a fair verdict, one way or the other.

In this particular case, the UK government's team of investigators can do all of the things I've described above. They can, in essence, be acting as private investigators on behalf of Hannah and David's family, who are citizens of the UK. And they can do so without "participating" or "interfering" with the Thai police, prosecution or judiciary.

If everyone involved truly wants to make sure the real killers and rapists, whoever they are, are convicted and punished, then there is no reason why they would not welcome the UK team to perform this role.

In theory, the Thai police and government have the second-most supreme interest in bringing the killers to justice. Because they are charged with protecting their citizens and foreigners visiting Thailand. So if the real killers aren't caught, that means they are still free to do this again. Given that, you would think they would welcome any assistance they can get, as long as it does not interfere or usurp their own role.

I believe that what I've suggested is the best way to balance all the interests and allow that to happen.

Interesting discussion, but doomed to failure before it would even be considered in the case of the police - it would be deemed to "usurp their own role".

Maybe ... but the UK team has already been given permission to come and "observe", so they have their foot in the door. While in Thailand, they can perform the role I am speaking of with or without the cooperation of the Thai police. If the Thai police allow them full access to the suspects, witnesses, evidence, etc. in a transparent fashion, then that can be included in the report and the families can draw positive conclusions regarding the transparency of the investigation. If they are given partial access, then what they were allowed to review and what they were not allowed to review can be reported on. If the UK team is actively stonewalled, then that can be included in the report and conclusions can be drawn as well.

No.

Overstepping the duties agreed to diplomatically is not something that they can do.

I agree with that, and didn't mean to suggest they should do so ... see my response below in #607.

If it is outside of those bounds, you are correct they cannot.

Whether there is or will be an actual MOU regarding what they will and won't be allowed to do, I have no idea.

If there is, they will need to stay within it ... my hope is that it would allow what I have suggested.

The public statements by the Thai and UK governments aren't in concert right now, so I don't think anybody knows what the actual diplomatic agreement is at this point.

"with or without the cooperation..."??

Edit -- did I miss a public statement from the UK? The only thing I have seen is an off the record comment by an anonymous source.

Why are you the only person on these threads who can't properly manage quotes in your replies?

[jdinasia]

The debate about the role that the UK government can and should play in the investigation of Hannah and David's death is a legitimate one involving many considerations by all involved. And it is not an easy black-and-white issue to resolve, because what ultimately happens has many ramifications outside this particular case.

My opinion is that the UK investigators should essentially act as private investigators on behalf of Hannah and David's family, who are UK citizens. Here is why:

Many parties (everyone actually) have an interest in bringing Hannah and David's attackers and killers to justice, but the supreme interest is held by their families.

If Hanna and David's families wanted to do so, they could hire a private investigator to collect and examine evidence, search for and interview witnesses, and review any evidence the Thai police was either willing to provide access to or made public.

The PI would have no legal authority to require cooperation from witnesses, search premises, etc., and definitely not to prosecute the case. The PI would be legally acting in a private (non-Thai government or law enforcement) capacity on behalf of the families.

When finished obtaining and analyzing the available evidence, the PI could report back to the families exactly what evidence it has collected and reviewed, as well as what evidence it has not had access to. It could also offer an expert opinion on the quality of that evidence, discrepancies and conflicts contained in the evidence, as well as on police procedures in gathering, handling and analyzing evidence.

The PI could also provide its expert opinion, based on the evidence it has seen and analyzed, as to who committed the crimes (if the PI believes it has sufficient proof to say beyond a reasonable doubt) and who did not commit the crimes (again, if sufficient proof is in hand beyond a reasonable doubt). In the alternative, if the PI does not have sufficient proof to say, in his or her expert opinion, who did or did not commit the crimes beyond a reasonable doubt, the report can state that also.

The PI could then offer all of the evidence it has collected as an independent investigator to both the prosecution and the defense, to use as they wish. Whether it aids the prosecution or the defense should not be of concern, because they are only interested in justice, finding the real killers.

Finally, the PI could observe the trial and compare what is offered as evidence in court with what they discovered in their own investigation. Then they could report back to the families as to whether what went into either convicting or exonerating the accused matched with what they discovered, and deliver an expert opinion as to whether it was a fair verdict, one way or the other.

In this particular case, the UK government's team of investigators can do all of the things I've described above. They can, in essence, be acting as private investigators on behalf of Hannah and David's family, who are citizens of the UK. And they can do so without "participating" or "interfering" with the Thai police, prosecution or judiciary.

If everyone involved truly wants to make sure the real killers and rapists, whoever they are, are convicted and punished, then there is no reason why they would not welcome the UK team to perform this role.

In theory, the Thai police and government have the second-most supreme interest in bringing the killers to justice. Because they are charged with protecting their citizens and foreigners visiting Thailand. So if the real killers aren't caught, that means they are still free to do this again. Given that, you would think they would welcome any assistance they can get, as long as it does not interfere or usurp their own role.

I believe that what I've suggested is the best way to balance all the interests and allow that to happen.

Interesting discussion, but doomed to failure before it would even be considered in the case of the police - it would be deemed to "usurp their own role".

Maybe ... but the UK team has already been given permission to come and "observe", so they have their foot in the door. While in Thailand, they can perform the role I am speaking of with or without the cooperation of the Thai police. If the Thai police allow them full access to the suspects, witnesses, evidence, etc. in a transparent fashion, then that can be included in the report and the families can draw positive conclusions regarding the transparency of the investigation. If they are given partial access, then what they were allowed to review and what they were not allowed to review can be reported on. If the UK team is actively stonewalled, then that can be included in the report and conclusions can be drawn as well.

No.

Overstepping the duties agreed to diplomatically is not something that they can do.

I agree with that, and didn't mean to suggest they should do so ... see my response below in #607.

If it is outside of those bounds, you are correct they cannot.

Whether there is or will be an actual MOU regarding what they will and won't be allowed to do, I have no idea.

If there is, they will need to stay within it ... my hope is that it would allow what I have suggested.

The public statements by the Thai and UK governments aren't in concert right now, so I don't think anybody knows what the actual diplomatic agreement is at this point.

"with or without the cooperation..."??

Edit -- did I miss a public statement from the UK? The only thing I have seen is an off the record comment by an anonymous source.

Why are you the only person on these threads who can't properly manage quotes in your replies?

Ask the forum support desk. They appear fine using the mobile app.

[PaPiPuPePo]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

The RTA already gets training from the US.

Not at present. Not since the coup.

AFAIK only one training was cancelled for the RTP

Not according to the Guardian, USA Today, Al Jazeera etc

"Joint military and police training exercises cancelled" Joint as in US-Thai.

BTW No dna material sent to Singapore. Another disinformation from high rankers at head of police.

We cant prove a negative, but you should be easily able to prove a positive, if you still believe the police.

We will see in court if they sent anything to Singapore.

I am personally aware of training happening on some levels. Such as CULP. I am only aware of one police training being cancelled. I will ask around tmw to see if any other police trainings were also cancelled. (CULP has a FB page)

Thank you for the `IF` at last Who is the `we` you refer to? Would that be you and a wealthy Thai land owning family. What would I be in court for? I doubt the EU would agree to extradition for doubting the veracity of some police statement. IF it is shown inconclusively that any commercial or institutional lab in Singapore has been used, then I would be the first to apologize.

I seem to be receiving a few veiled threats on here recently.

PS Maybe you used "we" as in "I", as some royals do.,

No I used "we" as in all of us; when the trial takes place.

Yes, fair enough But if the `scapegoats` plead guilty in court then no evidence will be presented. They will have been in the hands of their captors in Ko Samui prison for a while and possibly subject to more persuasions and dire threats. If evidence is presented, will the court proceedings be open to the British press or will it be closed with reporting restrictions. Fair and transparent There are already enough innocent victims of this tragedy. Just don`t want to see 2 more and many would not blame me for having legitimate concerns re Thai judiciary, police and current regime.

The UK and Myanmar will have observers in court.

Oh well, nothing to worry about. Will they be allowed to take notes, tweet can they take translators etc?

But the British press will not be allowed in court then. Fair and transparent, the Thai judiciary.

Umm what is your issue with the courts? Seriously! You surely are aware that many places do not allow recording, right?

As for foreign press? Many places do not allow the press.

Translators? One would assume that both embassies have Thai speakers on staff, wouldn't one?

One would and one does. I did not mention recording, I asked if note taking was allowed. You are happy that press will be denied access it seems. Two wrongs do not make a right. The fact that some other countries` judicial systems may be as loaded and untransparant as Thailand`s idoes not make it right.

JD's doubt-sowing is on the wrong side of history, only the success of a corrupt investigation will exonerate his views. What kind of morally evolved person would want to preserve the status quo in the face of the evidence nearly proving it to be a farce? To pick on any inconsistencies in the argument he disfavours while ignoring gaping holes in the story he supports (despite his disingenuous claims that he's the only one exercising restraint in judgment, waiting for the incorruptible court proceedings to deliver an unassailable guilty verdict)?

I think if we were all standing around in a room discussing this his campaign would have little or no traction, the internet affords great powers to manipulators of the facts if they can produce a sufficiently coherent story to fool those incapable of seeing through his ploys or readers newly-arrived to the discussion.

[mrtoad]

JD is entitled to his opinion. Whilst i and many probably don't agree with him on this subject, he is certainly not a troll and is a knowlegable long term poster, as opposed to some of the other shills thzt have appeared defending The BIB

[Bkkbound]

The role of a British Coroner in these matters should not be underestimated, a verdict of unlawful killing is almost certain, that then puts the onus on British police to formally investigate and report, the met has its flaws but they will not be compromised by keystone cops.

[MJP]

A trolling/baiting post has been removed.

[sustento]

The bottom line is this is a criminal case and Thai authorities don't need the UK help in solving the crime --- So, they are not going to be asked, nor will the UK ask, for them to be involved in the investigation. Observers, sure as this is not uncommon and while Thai authorities often get assistance from the FBI (despite uniformed statements to the contrary here), in the David Caradine murder the FBI were just observers because Thais didn't need their help despite public doubt on the official reports.

Not quite.

THe British police wwill not interfere with the case here. They will however collect as much evidence including DNA with and without the Local Police assistance. They will ask questions and collect details they think may be relevant from any person willing to give it and covertly if they need too. They will then present that evidence to the Coroner. In about another 6 months, just about the time an election is proposed here the coroner's inquest is in full swing and in England it is quite possible for the coronor to indicate that the person died probably at the hands of XXX and YYY. the police would then have to issue an arrest warrant as murder is an offence which can be prosecuted in the UK wherever it happens. Rather a potentially embarrasing can of worms.

I don't think that you actually understand how the various police forces are constituted in the UK.

There is no such thing as a UK police force. In the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland there are three different sets of laws. There's the set of laws that apply in England and Wales - the set of laws that apply in Scotland and the set of laws that apply in Northern Ireland.

In England and Wales there are 43 (?) police forces. Both Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own seperate police forces (and the seperate laws to go with them).

To use all these term interchangeably is very misleading.

[JLCrab]

From Post #645: The (Vienna Convention) Article you refer to relates to Consular Staff not to police. So do think the UK Investigators are going to arrive on 30-day Tourist exemptions?

Also from #645: I would ask my counterpart in the UK if they could provide samples of The DNA found in Hannah & David. It has never been confirmed that the UK forensic persons have recovered any DNA from the 2 repatriated bodies other than any DNA of the victims themselves.

Edited October 20, 2014 by JLCrab

[JohnThailandJohn]

The bottom line is this is a criminal case and Thai authorities don't need the UK help in solving the crime --- So, they are not going to be asked, nor will the UK ask, for them to be involved in the investigation. Observers, sure as this is not uncommon and while Thai authorities often get assistance from the FBI (despite uniformed statements to the contrary here), in the David Caradine murder the FBI were just observers because Thais didn't need their help despite public doubt on the official reports.

Not quite.

THe British police wwill not interfere with the case here. They will however collect as much evidence including DNA with and without the Local Police assistance. They will ask questions and collect details they think may be relevant from any person willing to give it and covertly if they need too. They will then present that evidence to the Coroner. In about another 6 months, just about the time an election is proposed here the coroner's inquest is in full swing and in England it is quite possible for the coronor to indicate that the person died probably at the hands of XXX and YYY. the police would then have to issue an arrest warrant as murder is an offence which can be prosecuted in the UK wherever it happens. Rather a potentially embarrasing can of worms.

Fantasy land for so many reasons both from a legal and political stance.

[hobz]

The UK must take DNA samples from the scapegoats parents and compare with their own samples from the victims bodies.. They should be able to do this without PM permission..

If they have nothing to hide, why not take the samples directly from the suspects? An honest police department would welcome confirmation.

An honest police department... hehe ..

Let's remove dishonesty from the RTP resumé for a short thought experiment ... what we are left with is a mixture of incompetence, inaccountability, unprofessionalism ...

So, the honest, but incompetent and unprofessional RTP that never have been held accountable for a single act of their entire lives .. why would they fear someone coming in and questioning them... .. did i answer that for you? Oh, and add dishonesty and corruption to the mix and it's beyond obvious

Edited October 21, 2014 by hobz

[jdinasia]

JD is entitled to his opinion. Whilst i and many probably don't agree with him on this subject, he is certainly not a troll and is a knowlegable long term poster, as opposed to some of the other shills thzt have appeared defending The BIB

Thanks for the support (I think)

Personally I am more tired of mob rule than most people seem to be.

Obviously the RTP are far from perfect. The legal system though operates efficiently enough.

Those claiming to know that this case is a stitch up, and that "everyone knows" who the "real killers are" know no such thing.

I have watched people claim Sean did it... People related to the headman did it... The 2 Burmese men were physically incapable of doing it. That Sean was wearing a push knife around his neck... That obviously doctored pictures proved that the man with the ring did it.... That they knew what caused the wounds. That a hoe could not cause the wounds...

The list is almost endless.

My stance from the beginning has been to let the courts decide. That I think they probably have the killers. That in the end, justice will actually prevail.

If you don't agree.. Cool. If you have to resort to personal attacks then obviously your argument is based on emotions and not facts.

[jdinasia]

From Post #645: The (Vienna Convention) Article you refer to relates to Consular Staff not to police. So do think the UK Investigators are going to arrive on 30-day Tourist exemptions?

Also from #645: I would ask my counterpart in the UK if they could provide samples of The DNA found in Hannah & David. It has never been confirmed that the UK forensic persons have recovered any DNA from the 2 repatriated bodies other than any DNA of the victims themselves.

Autopsies were performed in Thailand. There is no reason that any foreign DNA would have been left in the victims.

Add to that the likelihood the bodies were embalmed prior to repatriation and collecting exculpatory evidence in the UK is highly unlikely.

[bertty]

JD is entitled to his opinion. Whilst i and many probably don't agree with him on this subject, he is certainly not a troll and is a knowlegable long term poster, as opposed to some of the other shills thzt have appeared defending The BIB

Thanks for the support (I think)

Personally I am more tired of mob rule than most people seem to be.

Obviously the RTP are far from perfect. The legal system though operates efficiently enough.

Those claiming to know that this case is a stitch up, and that "everyone knows" who the "real killers are" know no such thing.

I have watched people claim Sean did it... People related to the headman did it... The 2 Burmese men were physically incapable of doing it. That Sean was wearing a push knife around his neck... That obviously doctored pictures proved that the man with the ring did it.... That they knew what caused the wounds. That a hoe could not cause the wounds...

The list is almost endless.

My stance from the beginning has been to let the courts decide. That I think they probably have the killers. That in the end, justice will actually prevail.

If you don't agree.. Cool. If you have to resort to personal attacks then obviously your argument is based on emotions and not facts.

You are of course joking ? Your stance on how these crimes took place has changed every time a new police report has been reported on the forums.

Talk about pot and kettle, and you wonder why people have a go at you.

[jdinasia]

JD is entitled to his opinion. Whilst i and many probably don't agree with him on this subject, he is certainly not a troll and is a knowlegable long term poster, as opposed to some of the other shills thzt have appeared defending The BIB

Thanks for the support (I think)

Personally I am more tired of mob rule than most people seem to be.

Obviously the RTP are far from perfect. The legal system though operates efficiently enough.

Those claiming to know that this case is a stitch up, and that "everyone knows" who the "real killers are" know no such thing.

I have watched people claim Sean did it... People related to the headman did it... The 2 Burmese men were physically incapable of doing it. That Sean was wearing a push knife around his neck... That obviously doctored pictures proved that the man with the ring did it.... That they knew what caused the wounds. That a hoe could not cause the wounds...

The list is almost endless.

My stance from the beginning has been to let the courts decide. That I think they probably have the killers. That in the end, justice will actually prevail.

If you don't agree.. Cool. If you have to resort to personal attacks then obviously your argument is based on emotions and not facts.

You are of course joking ? Your stance on how these crimes took place has changed every time a new police report has been reported on the forums.

Talk about pot and kettle, and you wonder why people have a go at you.

No Bert it hasn't. Thanks for justifying your personal attacks though

[kaobang]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/world/europe/in-search-for-killer-dna-sweep-exposes-intimate-family-secrets-in-italy.html?_r=0

dna taken to nearly 22,000 people..no matter how influential

caught the killer?yes.

"A court order can be issued in case someone refuses to be tested, “but I never needed one because everyone submitted to the test voluntarily,"

Edited October 21, 2014 by kaobang

[greenchair]

JD is entitled to his opinion. Whilst i and many probably don't agree with him on this subject, he is certainly not a troll and is a knowlegable long term poster, as opposed to some of the other shills thzt have appeared defending The BIB

Thanks for the support (I think)

Personally I am more tired of mob rule than most people seem to be.

Obviously the RTP are far from perfect. The legal system though operates efficiently enough.

Those claiming to know that this case is a stitch up, and that "everyone knows" who the "real killers are" know no such thing.

I have watched people claim Sean did it... People related to the headman did it... The 2 Burmese men were physically incapable of doing it. That Sean was wearing a push knife around his neck... That obviously doctored pictures proved that the man with the ring did it.... That they knew what caused the wounds. That a hoe could not cause the wounds...

The list is almost endless.

My stance from the beginning has been to let the courts decide. That I think they probably have the killers. That in the end, justice will actually prevail.

If you don't agree.. Cool. If you have to resort to personal attacks then obviously your argument is based on emotions and not facts.

The police themselves said David was not killed with a hoe.

The police themselves said David dna was not on the hoe.

It was only when the burmese could not answer what weapon they used on David. That the police suggested it was the hoe.they have done this to themselves.

[jdinasia]

JD is entitled to his opinion. Whilst i and many probably don't agree with him on this subject, he is certainly not a troll and is a knowlegable long term poster, as opposed to some of the other shills thzt have appeared defending The BIB

Thanks for the support (I think)

Personally I am more tired of mob rule than most people seem to be.

Obviously the RTP are far from perfect. The legal system though operates efficiently enough.

Those claiming to know that this case is a stitch up, and that "everyone knows" who the "real killers are" know no such thing.

I have watched people claim Sean did it... People related to the headman did it... The 2 Burmese men were physically incapable of doing it. That Sean was wearing a push knife around his neck... That obviously doctored pictures proved that the man with the ring did it.... That they knew what caused the wounds. That a hoe could not cause the wounds...

The list is almost endless.

My stance from the beginning has been to let the courts decide. That I think they probably have the killers. That in the end, justice will actually prevail.

If you don't agree.. Cool. If you have to resort to personal attacks then obviously your argument is based on emotions and not facts.

The police themselves said David was not killed with a hoe.

The police themselves said David dna was not on the hoe.

It was only when the burmese could not answer what weapon they used on David. That the police suggested it was the hoe.they have done this to themselves.

Why do you selectively believe the police?

[bertty]

JD is entitled to his opinion. Whilst i and many probably don't agree with him on this subject, he is certainly not a troll and is a knowlegable long term poster, as opposed to some of the other shills thzt have appeared defending The BIB

Thanks for the support (I think)

Personally I am more tired of mob rule than most people seem to be.

Obviously the RTP are far from perfect. The legal system though operates efficiently enough.

Those claiming to know that this case is a stitch up, and that "everyone knows" who the "real killers are" know no such thing.

I have watched people claim Sean did it... People related to the headman did it... The 2 Burmese men were physically incapable of doing it. That Sean was wearing a push knife around his neck... That obviously doctored pictures proved that the man with the ring did it.... That they knew what caused the wounds. That a hoe could not cause the wounds...

The list is almost endless.

My stance from the beginning has been to let the courts decide. That I think they probably have the killers. That in the end, justice will actually prevail.

If you don't agree.. Cool. If you have to resort to personal attacks then obviously your argument is based on emotions and not facts.

You are of course joking ? Your stance on how these crimes took place has changed every time a new police report has been reported on the forums.

Talk about pot and kettle, and you wonder why people have a go at you.

No Bert it hasn't. Thanks for justifying your personal attacks though

I think you'll find it has.

Do the personal attacks make you sad?

Edited October 21, 2014 by bertty

[boomerangutang]

Wow, suffocation with a plastic bag. That's pretty serious. Actually that could be construed as attempted murder. If they get released can the Burmese lads press charges... Inhumane and all starting to unravel for the individuals involved... How much longer can this nonsense go on. Release them already...

It's more likely the AC bar headman gets declared Pope than the Burmese scapegoats will be allowed to press charges against the RTP. Thailand's self-appointed PM could begin to clean up some of the grave problems afflicting biz-as-usual within police brass, but he won't - not with this case anyway, because a frame-up would implicate the PM also. He's been shoulder to shoulder (similar to JTJ) with Thai officialdom re; the frame-up and shielding the headman's people. So, for the PM to clean this up, would entail him indicting himself. Not likely.

[heyexile]

Wow, suffocation with a plastic bag. That's pretty serious. Actually that could be construed as attempted murder. If they get released can the Burmese lads press charges... Inhumane and all starting to unravel for the individuals involved... How much longer can this nonsense go on. Release them already...

It's more likely the AC bar headman gets declared Pope than the Burmese scapegoats will be allowed to press charges against the RTP. Thailand's self-appointed PM could begin to clean up some of the grave problems afflicting biz-as-usual within police brass, but he won't - not with this case anyway, because a frame-up would implicate the PM also. He's been shoulder to shoulder (similar to JTJ) with Thai officialdom re; the frame-up and shielding the headman's people. So, for the PM to clean this up, would entail him indicting himself. Not likely.

Not likely but some say he and his hand-picked noble Police Commissioner General might move themselves to inactive posts or `retire`. Unthinkable, how dare they!

http://nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Koh-Tao-case-a-time-bomb-for-Thailands-reputation-30245085-html

[Artisi]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/world/europe/in-search-for-killer-dna-sweep-exposes-intimate-family-secrets-in-italy.html?_r=0

dna taken to nearly 22,000 people..no matter how influential

caught the killer?yes.

"A court order can be issued in case someone refuses to be tested, “but I never needed one because everyone submitted to the test voluntarily,"

An interesting read.

[huawei]

JD is entitled to his opinion. Whilst i and many probably don't agree with him on this subject, he is certainly not a troll and is a knowlegable long term poster, as opposed to some of the other shills thzt have appeared defending The BIB

Thanks for the support (I think)

Personally I am more tired of mob rule than most people seem to be.

Obviously the RTP are far from perfect. The legal system though operates efficiently enough.

Those claiming to know that this case is a stitch up, and that "everyone knows" who the "real killers are" know no such thing.

I have watched people claim Sean did it... People related to the headman did it... The 2 Burmese men were physically incapable of doing it. That Sean was wearing a push knife around his neck... That obviously doctored pictures proved that the man with the ring did it.... That they knew what caused the wounds. That a hoe could not cause the wounds...

The list is almost endless.

My stance from the beginning has been to let the courts decide. That I think they probably have the killers. That in the end, justice will actually prevail.

If you don't agree.. Cool. If you have to resort to personal attacks then obviously your argument is based on emotions and not facts.

The police themselves said David was not killed with a hoe.

The police themselves said David dna was not on the hoe.

It was only when the burmese could not answer what weapon they used on David. That the police suggested it was the hoe.they have done this to themselves.

Why do you selectively believe the police?

Why do you think the court system will sort it out. When without question ignoring this case specifically Thailand is systematically corrupt.

Of course the courts will decide , they already have!

You clearly have no idea about the efficiency of the legal system as stated.

[jdinasia]

JD is entitled to his opinion. Whilst i and many probably don't agree with him on this subject, he is certainly not a troll and is a knowlegable long term poster, as opposed to some of the other shills thzt have appeared defending The BIB

Thanks for the support (I think)

Personally I am more tired of mob rule than most people seem to be.

Obviously the RTP are far from perfect. The legal system though operates efficiently enough.

Those claiming to know that this case is a stitch up, and that "everyone knows" who the "real killers are" know no such thing.

I have watched people claim Sean did it... People related to the headman did it... The 2 Burmese men were physically incapable of doing it. That Sean was wearing a push knife around his neck... That obviously doctored pictures proved that the man with the ring did it.... That they knew what caused the wounds. That a hoe could not cause the wounds...

The list is almost endless.

My stance from the beginning has been to let the courts decide. That I think they probably have the killers. That in the end, justice will actually prevail.

If you don't agree.. Cool. If you have to resort to personal attacks then obviously your argument is based on emotions and not facts.

The police themselves said David was not killed with a hoe.

The police themselves said David dna was not on the hoe.

It was only when the burmese could not answer what weapon they used on David. That the police suggested it was the hoe.they have done this to themselves.

Why do you selectively believe the police?

Why do you think the court system will sort it out. When without question ignoring this case specifically Thailand is systematically corrupt.

Of course the courts will decide , they already have!

You clearly have no idea about the efficiency of the legal system as stated.

If the 2 Burmese men are acquitted or charges never filed, what will you say?

Care to answer regarding selective acceptance of RTP statements?

[huawei]

JD is entitled to his opinion. Whilst i and many probably don't agree with him on this subject, he is certainly not a troll and is a knowlegable long term poster, as opposed to some of the other shills thzt have appeared defending The BIB

Thanks for the support (I think)

Personally I am more tired of mob rule than most people seem to be.

Obviously the RTP are far from perfect. The legal system though operates efficiently enough.

Those claiming to know that this case is a stitch up, and that "everyone knows" who the "real killers are" know no such thing.

I have watched people claim Sean did it... People related to the headman did it... The 2 Burmese men were physically incapable of doing it. That Sean was wearing a push knife around his neck... That obviously doctored pictures proved that the man with the ring did it.... That they knew what caused the wounds. That a hoe could not cause the wounds...

The list is almost endless.

My stance from the beginning has been to let the courts decide. That I think they probably have the killers. That in the end, justice will actually prevail.

If you don't agree.. Cool. If you have to resort to personal attacks then obviously your argument is based on emotions and not facts.

The police themselves said David was not killed with a hoe.

The police themselves said David dna was not on the hoe.

It was only when the burmese could not answer what weapon they used on David. That the police suggested it was the hoe.they have done this to themselves.

Why do you selectively believe the police?

Why do you think the court system will sort it out. When without question ignoring this case specifically Thailand is systematically corrupt.

Of course the courts will decide , they already have!

You clearly have no idea about the efficiency of the legal system as stated.

If the 2 Burmese men are acquitted or charges never filed, what will you say?

Care to answer regarding selective acceptance of RTP statements?

Nothing . Systematically the whole system is corrupt and I have evidence this. If they are acquitted it will have been from external pressures not because of due process of law.

Again , when corruption is evidenced every day in the press.Why do you think the courts are some sort of virtuous isolated island ...there is no logic in that.

[heyexile]

JD is entitled to his opinion. Whilst i and many probably don't agree with him on this subject, he is certainly not a troll and is a knowlegable long term poster, as opposed to some of the other shills thzt have appeared defending The BIB

Thanks for the support (I think)

Personally I am more tired of mob rule than most people seem to be.

Obviously the RTP are far from perfect. The legal system though operates efficiently enough.

Those claiming to know that this case is a stitch up, and that "everyone knows" who the "real killers are" know no such thing.

I have watched people claim Sean did it... People related to the headman did it... The 2 Burmese men were physically incapable of doing it. That Sean was wearing a push knife around his neck... That obviously doctored pictures proved that the man with the ring did it.... That they knew what caused the wounds. That a hoe could not cause the wounds...

The list is almost endless.

My stance from the beginning has been to let the courts decide. That I think they probably have the killers. That in the end, justice will actually prevail.

If you don't agree.. Cool. If you have to resort to personal attacks then obviously your argument is based on emotions and not facts.

The police themselves said David was not killed with a hoe.

The police themselves said David dna was not on the hoe.

It was only when the burmese could not answer what weapon they used on David. That the police suggested it was the hoe.they have done this to themselves.

Why do you selectively believe the police?

Why do you think the court system will sort it out. When without question ignoring this case specifically Thailand is systematically corrupt.

Of course the courts will decide , they already have!

You clearly have no idea about the efficiency of the legal system as stated.

If the 2 Burmese men are acquitted or charges never filed, what will you say?

Care to answer regarding selective acceptance of RTP statements?

I`d say hurrah! Then hope top brass, involved in the perfect investigation, move themselves to inactive posts.

As to selective RTP statements, I think he was using them to point out glaring contradictions in most of their bizarre statements. Are you going to jump ship like the prosecutors or are you still full time PR for the indefensible? .