Manchester City

[mrbojangles]

I'd be happy with that stevie.

[Bredbury Blue]

i do, the seeding system is a nonsense. it should be an open draw, an honest, anyone can play anyone draw. it should be possible to have a group containing man city, liverpool, chelsea and arsenal. and another group containing barcelona, real madrid, juventus and bayern munich. then it would be an open and fair competition.

I'd have no problem with that basis or Martin Samuel's basis - in fact i'd probably prefer an open draw format.

[mrbojangles]

This is the reason I want us to put the Prem first.

Sat 13 September 2014 A Arsenal Barclays Premier League

Wed 17 September 2014 A Bayern Munich UEFA Champions League

Sun 21 September 2014 H Chelsea Barclays Premier League

If we want to try and retain the Prem, we have to put the Arsenal and Chelsea game before the Bayern game and keep our top players fit. If we had say Burnley and Leicester (no disrespect) either side of Bayern, it would be different but IMO trying to get 6 points from Arsenal and Chelsea is a higher priority.

[mjj]

I've said it before, but I would take the CL selection further still. One of the pots should be the FA cup winners (Champions) or equivalent. All the teams in the CL should be a champion of some sort and it would certainly mix it up a bit. At a stretch the second placed team it a league should be in it, but not 3rd or 4th. Have 4th spot going to the league cup winners.

If a team holds 2 spots (FA cup and league winners) then a place being given to the team scoring the most goals in a league could be an option.

[jellydog]

I've said it before, but I would take the CL selection further still. One of the pots should be the FA cup winners (Champions) or equivalent. All the teams in the CL should be a champion of some sort and it would certainly mix it up a bit. At a stretch the second placed team it a league should be in it, but not 3rd or 4th. Have 4th spot going to the league cup winners.

If a team holds 2 spots (FA cup and league winners) then a place being given to the team scoring the most goals in a league could be an option.

I'd like 2's, 4's and 6's wild. Penny ante !

[Bredbury Blue]

Sat 13 September 2014 A Arsenal Barclays Premier League

Wed 17 September 2014 A Bayern Munich UEFA Champions League

Sun 21 September 2014 H Chelsea Barclays Premier League

OUCH!

[Chicog]

i do, the seeding system is a nonsense. it should be an open draw, an honest, anyone can play anyone draw. it should be possible to have a group containing man city, liverpool, chelsea and arsenal. and another group containing barcelona, real madrid, juventus and bayern munich. then it would be an open and fair competition.

but it is still very weird reading what amount to socialist ideas being put forward by the mail and in particular that flabby reactionary berk martin samuel.

You wouldn't be complaining about it if you were seeded.

That has to be earned.

[StevieH]

i do, the seeding system is a nonsense. it should be an open draw, an honest, anyone can play anyone draw. it should be possible to have a group containing man city, liverpool, chelsea and arsenal. and another group containing barcelona, real madrid, juventus and bayern munich. then it would be an open and fair competition.

but it is still very weird reading what amount to socialist ideas being put forward by the mail and in particular that flabby reactionary berk martin samuel.

You wouldn't be complaining about it if you were seeded.

That has to be earned.

yeah i would. it rigs the competition. should be a genuine wide open draw - what we have now isn't a draw, it's an allocation. an arrangement.

[Bredbury Blue]

i do, the seeding system is a nonsense. it should be an open draw, an honest, anyone can play anyone draw. it should be possible to have a group containing man city, liverpool, chelsea and arsenal. and another group containing barcelona, real madrid, juventus and bayern munich. then it would be an open and fair competition.

but it is still very weird reading what amount to socialist ideas being put forward by the mail and in particular that flabby reactionary berk martin samuel.

You wouldn't be complaining about it if you were seeded.

That has to be earned.

I wouldn't be complaining about it, but that doesn't make it fair or right does it.

Isn't that the point above, that the trophy is called Champions League, which should mean that teams who are Champions of their Country should be the seeds, and/or seeded higher than teams who come say 4th in their League.

And shouldn't a team like City, who have been 1st, 2nd and 1st the past 3 seasons, be seeded higher than a team like Arsenal who haven't been in the top 2 places for some years (since 2005). I think they should, how about you Chicog?

[Bredbury Blue]

Actually i'm ok with our draw, should be very entertaining for us again this season...and if you're good enough you should win it no matter who's in your group or who you draw in the knock-out rounds, but again i think the way the old-boys club (G14 / G18) are protected by the current seeding process could do with looking at.

[Bredbury Blue]

i do, the seeding system is a nonsense. it should be an open draw, an honest, anyone can play anyone draw. it should be possible to have a group containing man city, liverpool, chelsea and arsenal. and another group containing barcelona, real madrid, juventus and bayern munich. then it would be an open and fair competition.

but it is still very weird reading what amount to socialist ideas being put forward by the mail and in particular that flabby reactionary berk martin samuel.

You wouldn't be complaining about it if you were seeded.

That has to be earned.

yeah i would. it rigs the competition. should be a genuine wide open draw - what we have now isn't a draw, it's an allocation. an arrangement.

"an arrangement"...nicely put.

[Chicog]

You basically get seeded by qualifying for UEFA competition and consistently winning games.

It is what is is.

The rules are simple, you don't get an easy ride just because you qualify for Europe once in a blue moon.

[Bredbury Blue]

You basically get seeded by qualifying for UEFA competition and consistently winning games.

It is what is is.

The rules are simple, you don't get an easy ride just because you qualify for Europe once in a blue moon.

State the bleedin obvious and you've missed the point of the discussion.

[Chicog]

You basically get seeded by qualifying for UEFA competition and consistently winning games.

It is what is is.

The rules are simple, you don't get an easy ride just because you qualify for Europe once in a blue moon.

State the bleedin obvious and you've missed the point of the discussion.

No I haven't, I just disagree with you whingers.

If you were seeded we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You're just jealous of Chelsea's draw is all.

[Chicog]

And shouldn't a team like City, who have been 1st, 2nd and 1st the past 3 seasons, be seeded higher than a team like Arsenal who haven't been in the top 2 places for some years (since 2005). I think they should, how about you Chicog?

Certainly not. Win your games in Europe to improve your European coefficient.

It isn't rocket science.

If you look at the top 20 by the way, you'll see how many G18 teams aren't in it, which hardly backs your idea that it protects them.

And anyway, the G14/G18 doesn't even exist any more.

[P45Mustang]

I'd be happy with that stevie.

I'm ok with Schalke, Maribou, and Sporting Lisbomb tbh.

[P45Mustang]

Sat 13 September 2014 A Arsenal Barclays Premier League

Wed 17 September 2014 A Bayern Munich UEFA Champions League

Sun 21 September 2014 H Chelsea Barclays Premier League

OUCH!

Quite.

Ask Mourinho.

[Chicog]

Meanwhile, under the banner of "Be careful what you wish for..."

UEFA is close to changing the seeding system for the group stages of the Champions League, Sky Sports News’ Chief News Reporter Bryan Swanson can reveal.

UEFA has confirmed that, under new proposals, the top eight seeds would comprise of the defending Champions League winners, along with the seven domestic league winners of the top-ranked UEFA nations.

Initial talks over the seeding system took place earlier this year, and the plans were approved by the club competitions committee in May.

UEFA president Michel Platini, and other top officials, hope the new rules will prevent defending league champions seeded lower than other teams from their country.

Chelsea and Arsenal were both in pot one in this month's draw and seeded higher than Premier League holders Manchester City.

The new rules would prevent top-ranked domestic champions from being drawn in the same group.

Had the rules been introduced this season, it would have meant Manchester City were placed in pot one.

The plan needs approval from the UEFA Executive Committee before it can be introduced but it is hoped it would take effect from next season.

UEFA's next Executive Committee meeting takes place on September 18 in Nyon.

UEFA has also confirmed to Sky Sports News HQ that it has received no complaints from any club involved in the Champions League this season following Thursday's draw in Monaco.

[smokie36]

You basically get seeded by qualifying for UEFA competition and consistently winning games.

It is what is is.

The rules are simple, you don't get an easy ride just because you qualify for Europe once in a blue moon.

Every team that qualifies should get the same chance.....just like it used to be.

This "arrangement" is all about ensuring as many of the big clubs as possible reap the rewards in the latter stages.

[BangrakBob]

You basically get seeded by qualifying for UEFA competition and consistently winning games.

It is what is is.

The rules are simple, you don't get an easy ride just because you qualify for Europe once in a blue moon.

Every team that qualifies should get the same chance.....just like it used to be.

This "arrangement" is all about ensuring as many of the big clubs as possible reap the rewards in the latter stages.

Arsenal would argue different with their happy to participate strategy

[smokie36]

You basically get seeded by qualifying for UEFA competition and consistently winning games.

It is what is is.

The rules are simple, you don't get an easy ride just because you qualify for Europe once in a blue moon.

Every team that qualifies should get the same chance.....just like it used to be.

This "arrangement" is all about ensuring as many of the big clubs as possible reap the rewards in the latter stages.

Arsenal would argue different with their happy to participate strategy

Chicog is becoming unhinged....I wouldn't worry...its all the toxins in those prawn sarnies.

[Chicog]

You basically get seeded by qualifying for UEFA competition and consistently winning games.

It is what is is.

The rules are simple, you don't get an easy ride just because you qualify for Europe once in a blue moon.

Every team that qualifies should get the same chance.....just like it used to be.

This "arrangement" is all about ensuring as many of the big clubs as possible reap the rewards in the latter stages.

Arsenal would argue different with their happy to participate strategy

Chicog is becoming unhinged....I wouldn't worry...its all the toxins in those prawn sarnies.

Smokie we're discussing the Champions League here, not the Thursday Night Bowl mate.

[P45Mustang]

Mourinho says he finds the current pot system a bit odd.

Anyway it could all change next season according to Chicog's post.

2 points in the meantime:

1. Current system means in the group stage small fry will inevitably meet big fry. Is this necessarily bad? To progress further, small fry will need to beat big fry anyway.

2. Separation of clubs from the same country in the group stage. I'm not sure about this one but it does make it more a European competition to begin with.

Small clubs only meet big clubs in the FA Cup and the League Cup after the lower division sides have fought their own battle.

Dunno. 32 balls in a lottery machine may not be the best solution.

In tennis, seeds are separated.

[jellydog]

You basically get seeded by qualifying for UEFA competition and consistently winning games.

It is what is is.

The rules are simple, you don't get an easy ride just because you qualify for Europe once in a blue moon.

Every team that qualifies should get the same chance.....just like it used to be.

This "arrangement" is all about ensuring as many of the big clubs as possible reap the rewards in the latter stages.

Not mentioned among this debate is that if minnows are allowed to play minnows the TV ratings and $ will be adversely effected to a great degree and the competitive nature of the games would suffer. Not that I'm worried about the suits losing money, but I wouldn't be interested in watching a Little Mother's of the Poor kick off against Lepers United and not many fans would. Getting rid of the seedings seems an idea worth considering to some but I wouldn't be in favor of it. Do you want to have the possibility of four woebegone clubs in one group and four titans in another ? Then the reality of a titan facing off against a club with absolutely zero chance in the knock out stage ? And if you want to argue that the minnow would have a shot, how ? By parking the bus and playing shit football ? I think many fans would change their minds about wanting a change after viewing (or not viewing) such a bad joke.

Most sports have seedings of one type or another for a well established reason.

[alfieconn]

You basically get seeded by qualifying for UEFA competition and consistently winning games.

It is what is is.

The rules are simple, you don't get an easy ride just because you qualify for Europe once in a blue moon.

Every team that qualifies should get the same chance.....just like it used to be.

This "arrangement" is all about ensuring as many of the big clubs as possible reap the rewards in the latter stages.

Not mentioned among this debate is that if minnows are allowed to play minnows the TV ratings and $ will be adversely effected to a great degree and the competitive nature of the games would suffer. Not that I'm worried about the suits losing money, but I wouldn't be interested in watching a Little Mother's of the Poor kick off against Lepers United and not many fans would. Getting rid of the seedings seems an idea worth considering to some but I wouldn't be in favor of it. Do you want to have the possibility of four woebegone clubs in one group and four titans in another ? Then the reality of a titan facing off against a club with absolutely zero chance in the knock out stage ? And if you want to argue that the minnow would have a shot, how ? By parking the bus and playing shit football ? I think many fans would change their minds about wanting a change after viewing (or not viewing) such a bad joke.

Most sports have seedings of one type or another for a well established reason.

Nice post that takes out the "only thinking of themselves element "

[mrbojangles]

Meanwhile, under the banner of "Be careful what you wish for..."

UEFA is close to changing the seeding system for the group stages of the Champions League, Sky Sports News’ Chief News Reporter Bryan Swanson can reveal.

UEFA has confirmed that, under new proposals, the top eight seeds would comprise of the defending Champions League winners, along with the seven domestic league winners of the top-ranked UEFA nations.

Initial talks over the seeding system took place earlier this year, and the plans were approved by the club competitions committee in May.

UEFA president Michel Platini, and other top officials, hope the new rules will prevent defending league champions seeded lower than other teams from their country.

Chelsea and Arsenal were both in pot one in this month's draw and seeded higher than Premier League holders Manchester City.

The new rules would prevent top-ranked domestic champions from being drawn in the same group.

Had the rules been introduced this season, it would have meant Manchester City were placed in pot one.

The plan needs approval from the UEFA Executive Committee before it can be introduced but it is hoped it would take effect from next season.

UEFA's next Executive Committee meeting takes place on September 18 in Nyon.

UEFA has also confirmed to Sky Sports News HQ that it has received no complaints from any club involved in the Champions League this season following Thursday's draw in Monaco.

Don't see anything wrong with that. Afterall, it is called the Champions League

[Chicog]

Meanwhile, under the banner of "Be careful what you wish for..."

UEFA is close to changing the seeding system for the group stages of the Champions League, Sky Sports News’ Chief News Reporter Bryan Swanson can reveal.

UEFA has confirmed that, under new proposals, the top eight seeds would comprise of the defending Champions League winners, along with the seven domestic league winners of the top-ranked UEFA nations.

Initial talks over the seeding system took place earlier this year, and the plans were approved by the club competitions committee in May.

UEFA president Michel Platini, and other top officials, hope the new rules will prevent defending league champions seeded lower than other teams from their country.

Chelsea and Arsenal were both in pot one in this month's draw and seeded higher than Premier League holders Manchester City.

The new rules would prevent top-ranked domestic champions from being drawn in the same group.

Had the rules been introduced this season, it would have meant Manchester City were placed in pot one.

The plan needs approval from the UEFA Executive Committee before it can be introduced but it is hoped it would take effect from next season.

UEFA's next Executive Committee meeting takes place on September 18 in Nyon.

UEFA has also confirmed to Sky Sports News HQ that it has received no complaints from any club involved in the Champions League this season following Thursday's draw in Monaco.

Don't see anything wrong with that. Afterall, it is called the Champions League

Except for the fact that it completely guarantees that no teams outside the "top-ranked UEFA nations" (i.e. the ones that don't generate the most money) have even the smallest chance of ever being seeded.

And you were complaining about it being unfair to have to earn your seeding.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Chicog

[mrbojangles]

Meanwhile, under the banner of "Be careful what you wish for..."

UEFA is close to changing the seeding system for the group stages of the Champions League, Sky Sports News’ Chief News Reporter Bryan Swanson can reveal.

UEFA has confirmed that, under new proposals, the top eight seeds would comprise of the defending Champions League winners, along with the seven domestic league winners of the top-ranked UEFA nations.

Initial talks over the seeding system took place earlier this year, and the plans were approved by the club competitions committee in May.

UEFA president Michel Platini, and other top officials, hope the new rules will prevent defending league champions seeded lower than other teams from their country.

Chelsea and Arsenal were both in pot one in this month's draw and seeded higher than Premier League holders Manchester City.

The new rules would prevent top-ranked domestic champions from being drawn in the same group.

Had the rules been introduced this season, it would have meant Manchester City were placed in pot one.

The plan needs approval from the UEFA Executive Committee before it can be introduced but it is hoped it would take effect from next season.

UEFA's next Executive Committee meeting takes place on September 18 in Nyon.

UEFA has also confirmed to Sky Sports News HQ that it has received no complaints from any club involved in the Champions League this season following Thursday's draw in Monaco.

Don't see anything wrong with that. Afterall, it is called the Champions League

Except for the fact that it completely guarantees that no teams outside the "top-ranked UEFA nations" (i.e. the ones that don't generate the most money) have even the smallest chance of ever being seeded.

And you were complaining about it being unfair to have to earn your seeding.

Don't understand what made you fill up your colostomy bag so quickly in that?

I'm probably not as rigid as you are in my ability to negotiate and reach a compromise that suits the majority. Personally, I would like it to be a simple "all names in the hat" type of draw but I'm not naive and understand that it's a money machine. Therefore, for reasons that JellyDog mentioned above, they won't make it that simple and we will have to accept some sort of ranking system. It's still not what I would really like but the system proposed in your post above at least seems an acceptable compromise where the current Champions are in Pot 1 of the Champions League.

[Chicog]

I'm probably not as rigid as you are in my ability to negotiate and reach a compromise that suits the majority. Personally, I would like it to be a simple "all names in the hat" type of draw but I'm not naive and understand that it's a money machine. Therefore, for reasons that JellyDog mentioned above, they won't make it that simple and we will have to accept some sort of ranking system. It's still not what I would really like but the system proposed in your post above at least seems an acceptable compromise where the current Champions are in Pot 1 of the Champions League.

Perhaps you didn't read it properly.

The current champions of SEVEN leagues chosen by UEFA.

[mrbojangles]

I'm probably not as rigid as you are in my ability to negotiate and reach a compromise that suits the majority. Personally, I would like it to be a simple "all names in the hat" type of draw but I'm not naive and understand that it's a money machine. Therefore, for reasons that JellyDog mentioned above, they won't make it that simple and we will have to accept some sort of ranking system. It's still not what I would really like but the system proposed in your post above at least seems an acceptable compromise where the current Champions are in Pot 1 of the Champions League.

Perhaps you didn't read it properly.

The current champions of SEVEN leagues chosen by UEFA.

Yep, I read it properly which is why I mentioned the above in Red. Perhaps you didn't read my compromise properly