Foundation offers Bt60 million to help make Thailand's roads safer

[tbthailand]

A nice gesture however the whole system needs a complete overhaul starting with a program in defensive driving in schools to try a curb the culture of speeding and not wearing helmets etc and make it mandatory with much stricter tests for obtaining a licence.

People should be taught that having a licence is a privilege not a right and the Mai pen rai attitude on the roads should be addressed.

you got that right. driver education and training is the number one most effective method to address traffic accidents.

I find it amazing that an international foundation needs to address this in Thailand. In other countries, that is the government's job.

C'mon General, get on the stick.

[PaullyW]

So, that's how much it costs to remove all the Thais from the roads?

[PaullyW]

I see many posters have mentioned the abysmal drivers and driving habits. Another facet of the problem are the poorly designed and maintained roads, signage etc. These poor driving conditions also frustrate drivers who are frequently stuck in near-endless traffic only to then try to "make up" the lost time by speeding when possible along stretches of the same poor roads. Traffic signs are poorly placed, poorly maintained such as being completely or partially blocked by debris or vegetation, poorly described and often not of a proper size to be read.The roads lack good reflective surface, and often there are either no road lights at all to illuminate the roads at night or the lights are so dim as to be mostly pointless.

Often on major expressways, roads stretch for miles without even painted lane delineations, so drivers are made to drive randomly wherever they think the lines may have existed or are meant to exist. Extremely dangerous.

Or, what about allowing u-turns in the middle of high speed expressways? Are we still on planet Earth?

Thailand's driving plague is a mixture of a bunch of human factors with the same issues at the foundation: there seems to be a culturally reinforced lack of concern as to safety (in all areas of life), very poor education standards and a xenophobic and nationalistic arrogance that prevents people from looking outside for solutions to their problems.

I will NEVER drive in Thailand unless I have to. It is not coincidence that by statistics Thailand is one of the most dangerous places on Earth to drive.

[wilcopops]

Nowhere near enough for the job. They'd be better investing that in driver education

What exactly are you basing that opinion on?I take it you have costed the job?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Without corruption that could really help

With corruption it's just gravy for the taking

If a charity can figure out a program that could bypass the sticky fingers of Thai society then that be impressive.

[wilcopops]

Driving and education have some thing in common.....

If you have a medical disorder, the chances are you'll go to a doctor and accept his advice.....people will accept they know little or nothing of medicine.

However when it comes to education and driving people are quite different.

Everyone went to school (almost) and everyone has a car (nearly) - so all of a sudden everyone's an expert on teaching and road safety...they simply don't see the disconnect between their own strictly personal and anecdotal experience and the science behind each of these areas of study. ....and without this they are prepared to voice some totally inaccurate, one-sided and unsustainable arguments on the subjects....this thread is full of examples of this......

"(Other) drivers are to blame" - There are no more stupid people in Thailand than any other country......as said it is not just drivers that are to blame it is the general transport system. In reality most Thai drivers have learned to cope with the dreadful road conditions much better than most foreigners whose lack of ability to adapt becomes obvious in their comments about Thai drivers. (e.g. blame everyone else).

"“Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?”

In Europe stupid drivers simple CANNOT be stupid, lanes road construction etc all contribute to making their idiotic urges impossible. - (it is worth noting that road accident figures tend to indicate the USA is way behind Europe o road safety) - it is quite right to identify policing and driver education as PART of the problem but to think it is the solution is a joke.

This body, as far as I can see intends to change attitudes and maybe iron out some accident black spots - kit actually would require very little to adjust some pieces of road in Thailand to make them safer.....this in turn could lead to work subsequently carried out by newly enlightened local road and traffic engineers.

Edited October 21, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

You have to keep your wits about you here in Pattaya and anywhere else I have been in LOS. Is there any part of the country were Thai's ride and drive smart?

Very blinkered view....

[wilcopops]

BTW - if anyone wonders what the main tenets of road safety are they can be summed up in a nutshell.........

1. Education
2. Enforcement
3. Engineering
4. Emergency
5. Evaluation

For over a decade Thailand with its “Road Safety Action Plan” has espoused the virtues of the 5 “E”s (it has to be said with little effect) ...............maybe this charity will change that......

[northernjohn]

Thai drivers are also angry at the way their fellow Thais drive. From experience, the very worst is speeding and pulling out without checking their mirrors or bothering to indicate. Recipe for the disasters I see every day here on Phuket and no 'stricter' driving test will fix that. Same as you can't fix stupid.

You are 100% correct. if they don't know enough to use their mirrors when changing lanes your chances of teaching it to them are slim and nill.

This thread as so often happens is being used to bash rather than hear what the poster say's. Many don't even bother to read it look at the headline condemn it and proceed to posting. It says that the foundation is set up for this type of thing and yet we get a poster who will not give to Red Cross because of it.

The article talks about making the roads safer. It several times mentions the medical aspect. There is more to a safe road than less accidents. There is the time it takes to respond medically. Some thing that is lacking here in Thailand. They are also including that in their project.

No it will not solve the problem but it will help ease the problem. Tougher driving tests has been mentioned and is a good idea. But what has been omitted is tough driving teats on a tourist. Farongs who have never rode any thing other than a peddle bike come here and think they can navigate a motor bike in a country that lacks strict adherence to the laws. They think if they are not breaking a law they are doing good. They fail to realized that they would be doing a lot better by being aware of the traffic around them. It is a far cry from what they are used to. They may be in the right but that will not bring them back to life.

[tim armstrong]

A longer lead in to the license would be a start, with learner, provisional and full license categories - much like Australia, where the death rate from road accidents has improved dramatically over the past 20 years. Its still not good, but now more than ever its related to alcohol abuse rather than bad driving.

[wilcopops]

Thai drivers are also angry at the way their fellow Thais drive. From experience, the very worst is speeding and pulling out without checking their mirrors or bothering to indicate. Recipe for the disasters I see every day here on Phuket and no 'stricter' driving test will fix that. Same as you can't fix stupid.

You are 100% correct. if they don't know enough to use their mirrors when changing lanes your chances of teaching it to them are slim and nill.

This thread as so often happens is being used to bash rather than hear what the poster say's. Many don't even bother to read it look at the headline condemn it and proceed to posting. It says that the foundation is set up for this type of thing and yet we get a poster who will not give to Red Cross because of it.

The article talks about making the roads safer. It several times mentions the medical aspect. There is more to a safe road than less accidents. There is the time it takes to respond medically. Some thing that is lacking here in Thailand. They are also including that in their project.

No it will not solve the problem but it will help ease the problem. Tougher driving tests has been mentioned and is a good idea. But what has been omitted is tough driving teats on a tourist. Farongs who have never rode any thing other than a peddle bike come here and think they can navigate a motor bike in a country that lacks strict adherence to the laws. They think if they are not breaking a law they are doing good. They fail to realized that they would be doing a lot better by being aware of the traffic around them. It is a far cry from what they are used to. They may be in the right but that will not bring them back to life.

I agree with most of your post - but I wonder if tourists will resist the wearing of "driving teats"?

number 4 of the 5 "E"s covers medical treatment . It is well established that the time between injury and treatment is crucial. It has bee shown that some victims with relatively minor injuries can die of "shock" if treatment isn't quickly available. Thailand doesn't even have an established centrally controlled ambulance service. In Uk the time from incident to arrival of paramedics is measured in minutes and then the trip to hospital is similarly quick - this has huge benefits, reducing road deaths significantly.

I live not far from Pattaya and often go shopping there - one thing that stands out is the appalling driving of foreigners there, who seem determined either to drive as they did "at home" or think that the road is for THEM and no-one else. You can see this attitude reflected in some of the comments (Thai bashing) on this thread.

Edited October 21, 2014 by wilcopops

[Alwyn]

Nowhere near enough for the job. They'd be better investing that in driver education

What exactly are you basing that opinion on?I take it you have costed the job?

To the baht

[wilcopops]

Nowhere near enough for the job. They'd be better investing that in driver education

What exactly are you basing that opinion on?I take it you have costed the job?

To the baht

you don't appear to know what thy intend to do at all!

[Alwyn]

Nowhere near enough for the job. They'd be better investing that in driver education

What exactly are you basing that opinion on?I take it you have costed the job?

To the baht

you don't appear to know what thy intend to do at all!

I do, because I actually read the article.

[Munger]

Thai drivers are also angry at the way their fellow Thais drive. From experience, the very worst is speeding and pulling out without checking their mirrors or bothering to indicate. Recipe for the disasters I see every day here on Phuket and no 'stricter' driving test will fix that. Same as you can't fix stupid.

You are 100% correct. if they don't know enough to use their mirrors when changing lanes your chances of teaching it to them are slim and nill.

This thread as so often happens is being used to bash rather than hear what the poster say's. Many don't even bother to read it look at the headline condemn it and proceed to posting. It says that the foundation is set up for this type of thing and yet we get a poster who will not give to Red Cross because of it.

The article talks about making the roads safer. It several times mentions the medical aspect. There is more to a safe road than less accidents. There is the time it takes to respond medically. Some thing that is lacking here in Thailand. They are also including that in their project.

No it will not solve the problem but it will help ease the problem. Tougher driving tests has been mentioned and is a good idea. But what has been omitted is tough driving teats on a tourist. Farongs who have never rode any thing other than a peddle bike come here and think they can navigate a motor bike in a country that lacks strict adherence to the laws. They think if they are not breaking a law they are doing good. They fail to realized that they would be doing a lot better by being aware of the traffic around them. It is a far cry from what they are used to. They may be in the right but that will not bring them back to life.

I agree with most of your post - but I wonder if tourists will resist the wearing of "driving teats"?

number 4 of the 5 "E"s covers medical treatment . It is well established that the time between injury and treatment is crucial. It has bee shown that some victims with relatively minor injuries can die of "shock" if treatment isn't quickly available. Thailand doesn't even have an established centrally controlled ambulance service. In Uk the time from incident to arrival of paramedics is measured in minutes and then the trip to hospital is similarly quick - this has huge benefits, reducing road deaths significantly.

I live not far from Pattaya and often go shopping there - one thing that stands out is the appalling driving of foreigners there, who seem determined either to drive as they did "at home" or think that the road is for THEM and no-one else. You can see this attitude reflected in some of the comments (Thai bashing) on this thread.

What blame the farangs, and brown nose the Thais. So just because you have a Thai wife you think that even one bad word about LOS, or the people, is Thai bashing ? Surely you are farang bashing.

[wilcopops]

Thai drivers are also angry at the way their fellow Thais drive. From experience, the very worst is speeding and pulling out without checking their mirrors or bothering to indicate. Recipe for the disasters I see every day here on Phuket and no 'stricter' driving test will fix that. Same as you can't fix stupid.

You are 100% correct. if they don't know enough to use their mirrors when changing lanes your chances of teaching it to them are slim and nill.

This thread as so often happens is being used to bash rather than hear what the poster say's. Many don't even bother to read it look at the headline condemn it and proceed to posting. It says that the foundation is set up for this type of thing and yet we get a poster who will not give to Red Cross because of it.

The article talks about making the roads safer. It several times mentions the medical aspect. There is more to a safe road than less accidents. There is the time it takes to respond medically. Some thing that is lacking here in Thailand. They are also including that in their project.

No it will not solve the problem but it will help ease the problem. Tougher driving tests has been mentioned and is a good idea. But what has been omitted is tough driving teats on a tourist. Farongs who have never rode any thing other than a peddle bike come here and think they can navigate a motor bike in a country that lacks strict adherence to the laws. They think if they are not breaking a law they are doing good. They fail to realized that they would be doing a lot better by being aware of the traffic around them. It is a far cry from what they are used to. They may be in the right but that will not bring them back to life.

I agree with most of your post - but I wonder if tourists will resist the wearing of "driving teats"?

number 4 of the 5 "E"s covers medical treatment . It is well established that the time between injury and treatment is crucial. It has bee shown that some victims with relatively minor injuries can die of "shock" if treatment isn't quickly available. Thailand doesn't even have an established centrally controlled ambulance service. In Uk the time from incident to arrival of paramedics is measured in minutes and then the trip to hospital is similarly quick - this has huge benefits, reducing road deaths significantly.

I live not far from Pattaya and often go shopping there - one thing that stands out is the appalling driving of foreigners there, who seem determined either to drive as they did "at home" or think that the road is for THEM and no-one else. You can see this attitude reflected in some of the comments (Thai bashing) on this thread.

What blame the farangs, and brown nose the Thais. So just because you have a Thai wife you think that even one bad word about LOS, or the people, is Thai bashing ? Surely you are farang bashing.

You appear to have no idea about what is being discussed and your conclusions are the result of a false dichotomy.

[chongtak]

Just a dream. The Thai will never change the way they drive, it simply shows their inner personality, behind the smile.

[wilcopops]

Just a dream. The Thai will never change the way they drive, it simply shows their inner personality, behind the smile.

...this is precisely the ill-conceived and ill-informed comment I've been talking about.

[chongtak]

Just a dream. The Thai will never change the way they drive, it simply shows their inner personality, behind the smile.

...this is precisely the ill-conceived and ill-informed comment I've been talking about.

You obviously don't live in Thailand or don't speak Thai protected by your thirak in your house in the middle of nowhere. My comment was ill, and you are blind.

[wilcopops]

Nowhere near enough for the job. They'd be better investing that in driver education

What exactly are you basing that opinion on?I take it you have costed the job?

To the baht

you don't appear to know what thy intend to do at all!

I do, because I actually read the article.

Then why not explain yourself? How is it coated?

[emilymat]

Thai drivers are also angry at the way their fellow Thais drive. From experience, the very worst is speeding and pulling out without checking their mirrors or bothering to indicate. Recipe for the disasters I see every day here on Phuket and no 'stricter' driving test will fix that. Same as you can't fix stupid.

You are 100% correct. if they don't know enough to use their mirrors when changing lanes your chances of teaching it to them are slim and nill.

This thread as so often happens is being used to bash rather than hear what the poster say's. Many don't even bother to read it look at the headline condemn it and proceed to posting. It says that the foundation is set up for this type of thing and yet we get a poster who will not give to Red Cross because of it.

The article talks about making the roads safer. It several times mentions the medical aspect. There is more to a safe road than less accidents. There is the time it takes to respond medically. Some thing that is lacking here in Thailand. They are also including that in their project.

No it will not solve the problem but it will help ease the problem. Tougher driving tests has been mentioned and is a good idea. But what has been omitted is tough driving teats on a tourist. Farongs who have never rode any thing other than a peddle bike come here and think they can navigate a motor bike in a country that lacks strict adherence to the laws. They think if they are not breaking a law they are doing good. They fail to realized that they would be doing a lot better by being aware of the traffic around them. It is a far cry from what they are used to. They may be in the right but that will not bring them back to life.

I agree with most of your post - but I wonder if tourists will resist the wearing of "driving teats"?

number 4 of the 5 "E"s covers medical treatment . It is well established that the time between injury and treatment is crucial. It has bee shown that some victims with relatively minor injuries can die of "shock" if treatment isn't quickly available. Thailand doesn't even have an established centrally controlled ambulance service. In Uk the time from incident to arrival of paramedics is measured in minutes and then the trip to hospital is similarly quick - this has huge benefits, reducing road deaths significantly.

I live not far from Pattaya and often go shopping there - one thing that stands out is the appalling driving of foreigners there, who seem determined either to drive as they did "at home" or think that the road is for THEM and no-one else. You can see this attitude reflected in some of the comments (Thai bashing) on this thread.

What blame the farangs, and brown nose the Thais. So just because you have a Thai wife you think that even one bad word about LOS, or the people, is Thai bashing ? Surely you are farang bashing.

It is really futile to generalise about individuals, whether Thai or farang.

Just two examples of conversations I overheard in the changing room at my golf club recently (They are not embellished I guarantee).

Man A (UK) 'Can you give me a lift, my wife has not turned up"

Man B (UK) 'Of course, but I must warn you I drive fast"

Man A (USA) "That 36 road is real dangerous"

Man B (USA) "You bet, I always make my presence felt on that road to those Thai's"

I was appalled by such remarks but obviously said nowt.

By the way, the UK guy is known to me and is about 5'2' and drives a huge pick-up. When I relayed these remarks to a mutual friend he said "Small man, big car, It's quite normal".

Take care.

[wilcopops]

What exactly are you basing that opinion on?I take it you have costed the job?

r enough for the job. They'd be better investing that in driver education

To the baht

you don't appear to know what thy intend to do at all!

I do, because I actually read the article.

so could you please explain yourself?

[wilcopops]

...thought not......

[masuk]

A longer lead in to the license would be a start, with learner, provisional and full license categories - much like Australia, where the death rate from road accidents has improved dramatically over the past 20 years. Its still not good, but now more than ever its related to alcohol abuse rather than bad driving.

There are a number of reasons why the death rate in Oz is down on previous years. As others have said, many Western countries, including Oz will hit you with heavy fines for reckless driving, plus the threat of losing points.

Another reason is the 'booze bus' which can appear anywhere, any time, and you are stopped for a breath test for alcohol. They need a fleet of buses on the highways in Chiang Mai at night.

Obtaining a licence is not a half hour course. As mentioned by others, a full licence is normally issued after training and use of L plates for some months. I was denied a motorbike licence here, as my Aussie one had expired, so I only got a licence for car, 21 seater bus and heavy medium vehicle (fire truck). I was told to get a new bike licence in Oz. Trouble is the re-training course is a number of weekends plus $800.00!

I can't remember ever seeing a learner-driver for bike or car in Thailand. Do they have qualified instructors and driving schools?

[wilcopops]

A longer lead in to the license would be a start, with learner, provisional and full license categories - much like Australia, where the death rate from road accidents has improved dramatically over the past 20 years. Its still not good, but now more than ever its related to alcohol abuse rather than bad driving.

again you are really talking about a single issue solution - which is not possible - and in Thailand enforcing any form of deriving licence is just about impossible at present.

If you change the roads you physically restrict where and how people drive with or without a driving licence.

the reasons for lowering of casualties , collisions and deaths in Oz are NOT singular nor are they attributable to one cause. comparing one country with another is pointless unless you take the overall picture and how it has been applied and then see how this ca be applied to Thailand. in fact traffic engineering and road design is pretty poor in Oz and the accident rate is still extraordinarily high for a country with relatively low traffic density ......

like most developed countries roads ...and injuries...are on the way down, burt why? Is it because Australians are less stupid than they were 50 years ago? no it's because of the 5 "E"s especially things like education and enforcement but also because of vehicle design and regulation and dramatic improvements in the way roads are designed and built.

the sae applies to Thailand.

[wilcopops]

A longer lead in to the license would be a start, with learner, provisional and full license categories - much like Australia, where the death rate from road accidents has improved dramatically over the past 20 years. Its still not good, but now more than ever its related to alcohol abuse rather than bad driving.

There are a number of reasons why the death rate in Oz is down on previous years. As others have said, many Western countries, including Oz will hit you with heavy fines for reckless driving, plus the threat of losing points.

Another reason is the 'booze bus' which can appear anywhere, any time, and you are stopped for a breath test for alcohol. They need a fleet of buses on the highways in Chiang Mai at night.

Obtaining a licence is not a half hour course. As mentioned by others, a full licence is normally issued after training and use of L plates for some months. I was denied a motorbike licence here, as my Aussie one had expired, so I only got a licence for car, 21 seater bus and heavy medium vehicle (fire truck). I was told to get a new bike licence in Oz. Trouble is the re-training course is a number of weekends plus $800.00!

I can't remember ever seeing a learner-driver for bike or car in Thailand. Do they have qualified instructors and driving schools?

it is also worth bearing in mind that the majority of those driving in countries like Australia, UK and US did NOT take the new sophisticated driving tests - thy often got their licences in the most banal circumstances conceivable...so it's not a case of get a new driving test and everyone drives better.

another thing that people often overlook is the number of COLLISIONS in any country.

Road safety stats are particularly "negotiable" and most concentrate solely on numbers of deaths. this is often misleading.

You might be surprised at the number of repotted collisions in a country like the UK they are about 200,000 to 150, 000 per annum......but the design of roads and vehicles helps to mitigate the number of fatalities.

Edited October 23, 2014 by wilcopops

[retell]

A longer lead in to the license would be a start, with learner, provisional and full license categories - much like Australia, where the death rate from road accidents has improved dramatically over the past 20 years. Its still not good, but now more than ever its related to alcohol abuse rather than bad driving.

There are a number of reasons why the death rate in Oz is down on previous years. As others have said, many Western countries, including Oz will hit you with heavy fines for reckless driving, plus the threat of losing points.

Another reason is the 'booze bus' which can appear anywhere, any time, and you are stopped for a breath test for alcohol. They need a fleet of buses on the highways in Chiang Mai at night.

Obtaining a licence is not a half hour course. As mentioned by others, a full licence is normally issued after training and use of L plates for some months. I was denied a motorbike licence here, as my Aussie one had expired, so I only got a licence for car, 21 seater bus and heavy medium vehicle (fire truck). I was told to get a new bike licence in Oz. Trouble is the re-training course is a number of weekends plus $800.00!

I can't remember ever seeing a learner-driver for bike or car in Thailand. Do they have qualified instructors and driving schools?

I know driving schools exist in thailand , no idea if there is anything like a qualified instructor , certificate etc. But t.i.t. you can get a bachelor degree in hairdressing so why not driving .

[wilcopops]

A longer lead in to the license would be a start, with learner, provisional and full license categories - much like Australia, where the death rate from road accidents has improved dramatically over the past 20 years. Its still not good, but now more than ever its related to alcohol abuse rather than bad driving.

There are a number of reasons why the death rate in Oz is down on previous years. As others have said, many Western countries, including Oz will hit you with heavy fines for reckless driving, plus the threat of losing points.

Another reason is the 'booze bus' which can appear anywhere, any time, and you are stopped for a breath test for alcohol. They need a fleet of buses on the highways in Chiang Mai at night.

Obtaining a licence is not a half hour course. As mentioned by others, a full licence is normally issued after training and use of L plates for some months. I was denied a motorbike licence here, as my Aussie one had expired, so I only got a licence for car, 21 seater bus and heavy medium vehicle (fire truck). I was told to get a new bike licence in Oz. Trouble is the re-training course is a number of weekends plus $800.00!

I can't remember ever seeing a learner-driver for bike or car in Thailand. Do they have qualified instructors and driving schools?

I know driving schools exist in thailand , no idea if there is anything like a qualified instructor , certificate etc. But t.i.t. you can get a bachelor degree in hairdressing so why not driving .

I've witnessed advice given to students by Thai driving instructors....not just poor but potentially lethal. Of course they need to be trained too.

[lvr181]

"Teerapong Rodprasert, director general of the Land Transport Department, said the road-accident issue was a serious problem that needs to be resolved. He pointed out that though officials tried to implement new measures to control speed, it did not seem to work in practice."

I wonder why? Could it be that the enforcement authorities don't do their job? Or the drivers themselves don't care? Get rid of "mai pen rai" when dealing with other peoples lives and some improvement may happen on the roads.