Koh Tao: Prosecutors unfazed by retraction of confession in British tourists' killing

[hobz]

This forum following sure can take up a lot of one's time. I'm still watching for further news on a couple seemingly

forgotten cases. the one of a Chinese tourist being beaten by couple guys who showed up on motorcycle with clubs of some

sort and the Russian girl raped after accepting motorcycle lift. Both were somewhat near Phuket. Anyone know what I've not heard? Also, seems to be no further mention about the parents of the Brit son also killed in Koa Tao last year who wanted

further investigation. They claimed to be suspicious of the findings and lack of answers. Anything further on that?

Yeah he fell to his death without breaking any bones

[Yann55]

If the thai police do not cooperate, as we all suspect, that will be the main conclusion in the British police report.

So the upshot will be another nail in the coffin for the reputation of Thailand. I know many posters like to claim Thailand is such a strong and successful country that it doesn't matter what anyone thinks of them. You are welcome to your opinions, everyone has opinions, just like everyone has certain bodily orifices. I have an opinion too, which is that reputation always matters and that Thailand needs the world a lot more than the world needs Thailand and the country will certainly pay a price for being considered backward, corrupt, disrespectful, dishonest, not deserving of trust and respect and not welcome within the circle of countries thought to be civilised and developed.

There are of course many countries that behave in a unacceptable manner. I am sure North Korea also thinks they are better than the rest of the world. The price they pay is misery. I am sure Putin thinks he is the master of the universe and Russia will be the number one world power....but just look at the Ruble and the plunging price of oil...both signs that his strategy of sending his Neanderthal thugs in to terrorize his neighbors is backfiring pretty badly. If Thailand wants to join the league of failed and disrespected nations then they will also pay a price.

Hi Paddy, in spite of the fact that your argument is somewhat weakened by one unsavoury comment about other people's opinions (comparing them with bodily orifices indicates how little you respect them, and what's a discussion worth if there's no mutual respect?), you do have a point and I do agree with that point ie that reputations are highly significant especially in a day and age that focus so much on image, communication and hearsay.

I think you're right about Russia too, and in the long run Putin's arrogance will not serve his country, no more than Hitler's or Franco's or Pinochet's served theirs.

However, one thing must be kept in mind. You speak as if the whole world was as focused as 'we' TVF members are on these Koh Tao murders and the way they're 'handled' by the local police force. The British press, understandably and rightly, cover the story and seem to do their best not to let things rest as long as the situation reeks of manipulation.

But what about bout the rest of the Western world ? I've been talking on social networks with friends from various parts of Europe and I regret to say that they seem to know very little, if anything, about this case. Every country is normally focusing on its own issues and when it comes to planning a holiday, it seems that most people's perspective, if they know about the murders (and I repeat they often don't), is "well, gruesome murders happen everywhere, including in our own country, so why should we change our plans?".

One more thing, to anyone who starts claiming that 'Thailand should be punished' and suggest a massive boycott, it kind of reminds me of the not so ancient times when after a long siege, the 'victorious' troops would finally enter the city and kill everyone including children, women and seniors, on the grounds that they were on the bad side right from the start.

I do not want to 'punish Thailand' or any other country for that matter, because a country is a concept, and you can't punish a concept, but you do end up hurting real people who have nothing to do with those who are causing the uproar. If anything the majority of Thais are already suffering from the extreme arrogance of the rich and powerful in this country, and a boycott would affect everyone, not just the bad guys. Methinks the latter would actually be the least affected.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Yann55

[Gweiloman]

Seems the UK cops are on the ground inn Thailand now

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/update/2014-10-22/met-police-assisting-in-murder-investigation/

Any one seen any more news of the above? They're not having a beer in Patpong are they?

[ScubaPhuket]

"When asked about international concerns over the investigation, Mr. Thawatchai said that Thai police will be able to answer every doubt raised but no outside authorities can send their people to work on this case as Thai laws do not permit such a scenario."

The answers the BIB give to every doubt is the cause of international concern.

As to what Thai laws allow, you might want to check with the PM about that, as Burmese and UK police are coming over/already here to look at the case.

To observe as stated in the article. They are not here to investigate.

Your mindless, ill-informed, biased, blinkered, hypocritical, backpedaling responses to every post really do amuse me and also make me wonder why you're so hellbent on continually denying the obvious especially when it's in the face of such opposition.

It's fair to assume that the Scotland Yard delegation will not be blindfolded or gagged & will be 'allowed' to look at evidence & ask questions, this in itself constitutes investigation or do I need to post a link to investigative method for you?

I would suggest that you heed the advice that you proclaim on your avatar. Further hypocrisy tbqh.

[CapFarmer]

Yes but the time stamped video says the 15th and its at his apartment. The lawyer says he was in class 13th-15th and attended exams and has paperwork to prove it. Where's this paperwork. Where is a link to him being cleared by police. Cleared by his lawyer holding up a photo shopped photo is not the same as being cleared by the police. Links please to where police have cleared him by his alibi. A lawyer clearing you is not the same as the police clearing you.

The "investigation" has been so bungled that no real court would be able to convict anyone, except for the police officer that allowed the AC bar guy onto the crime scene (see attached thumbnail). I suspect that was the intent from the start. The list of police crimes (the result of negligence is a crime many are convicted of regularly), is pages long. See the AC bar guy at the crime scene assisting officers gather evidence (oh, that must have just fallen out of my pocket... Oh, how did that get there? that's mine, I've been looking for that... Oh, look over there, now see here what I have found...) The "evidence" against the current suspects is laughable and the original suspect has never been cleared to any reasonable level of proof or even a level that removes reasonable doubt.

Reference the original suspect, on the morning of the murders, the boy's father is seen on TV stating he is not sure where his son is and that he did not come home last night. The still frame supposedly from CCTV footage in the University, which turned out to have actually been from a nearby apartment, shows obvious signs of having been edited and there is no record of the actual CCTV film footage to collaborate anything. There are reports of a speed boat departing the island in the early morning hours that was suspected to have had the original suspect as a passenger. The police, as far as anyone knows, have not bothered to check the cell phone records or flight records or university records to confirm or reject the supposed alibi of the original suspect even though there is plenty of probable cause (i.e. "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true") which is reason enough to have all of those records checked in order to remove any suspicion.

The current suspects had no DNA evidence or blood on their persons or in their apartment even though they came home moments after having brutally murdered two persons which left the beach crime scene covered in blood for days, and there is no DNA from either of them on the supposed murder weapon. The are seen in line getting DNA tested, now they are cleared, now they are not cleared... Found the female victims phone, no wait it is the male victims phone, no wait that phone was left at the crime scene and also found again in the male victims luggage with evidence of blood and hair fibers... Taxi drivers bribed, witnesses threatened...

[hobz]

If the thai police do not cooperate, as we all suspect, that will be the main conclusion in the British police report.

So the upshot will be another nail in the coffin for the reputation of Thailand. I know many posters like to claim Thailand is such a strong and successful country that it doesn't matter what anyone thinks of them. You are welcome to your opinions, everyone has opinions, just like everyone has certain bodily orifices. I have an opinion too, which is that reputation always matters and that Thailand needs the world a lot more than the world needs Thailand and the country will certainly pay a price for being considered backward, corrupt, disrespectful, dishonest, not deserving of trust and respect and not welcome within the circle of countries thought to be civilised and developed.

There are of course many countries that behave in a unacceptable manner. I am sure North Korea also thinks they are better than the rest of the world. The price they pay is misery. I am sure Putin thinks he is the master of the universe and Russia will be the number one world power....but just look at the Ruble and the plunging price of oil...both signs that his strategy of sending his Neanderthal thugs in to terrorize his neighbors is backfiring pretty badly. If Thailand wants to join the league of failed and disrespected nations then they will also pay a price.

Hi Paddy, in spite of the fact that your argument is somewhat weakened by one unsavoury comment about other people's opinions (comparing them with bodily orifices indicates how little you respect them, and what's a discussion worth if there's no mutual respect?), you do have a point and I do agree with that point ie that reputations are highly significant especially in a day and age that focus so much on image, communication and hearsay.

I think you're right about Russia too, and in the long run Putin's arrogance will not serve his country, no more than Hitler's or Franco's or Pinochet's served theirs.

However, one thing must be kept in mind. You speak as if the whole world was as focused as 'we' TVF members are on these Koh Tao murders and the way they're 'handled' by the local police force. The British press, understandably and rightly, cover the story and seem to do their best not to let things rest as long as the situation reeks of manipulation.

But what about bout the rest of the Western world ? I've been talking on social networks with friends from various parts of Europe and I regret to say that they seem to know very little, if anything, about this case. Every country is normally focusing on its own issues and when it comes to planning a holiday, it seems that most people's perspective, if they know about the murders (and I repeat they often don't), is "well, gruesome murders happen everywhere, including in our own country, so why should we change our plans?".

One more thing, to anyone who starts claiming that 'Thailand should be punished' and suggest a massive boycott, it kind of reminds me of the not so ancient times when after a long siege, the 'victorious' troops would finally enter the city and kill everyone including children, women and seniors, on the grounds that they were on the bad side right from the start.

I do not want to 'punish Thailand' or any other country for that matter, because a country is a concept, and you can't punish a concept, but you do end up hurting real people who have nothing to do with those who are causing the uproar. If anything the majority of Thais are already suffering from the extreme arrogance of the rich and powerful in this country, and a boycott would affect everyone, not just the bad guys. Methinks the latter would actually be the least affected.

You're right,, punishing the economy as a whole usually benefits those at the tops.. because they have margins they can afford to play with.. while those at the bottom go bankrupt and sell themselves for nothing to those at the top... That's why the recent economic crisis 2008 made the elite even richer! They are winning on our so called economic crisises because they can afford to invest in the crisis .. Eg they get to buy the entire market for a bargain

[laobali]

"When asked about international concerns over the investigation, Mr. Thawatchai said that Thai police will be able to answer every doubt raised but no outside authorities can send their people to work on this case as Thai laws do not permit such a scenario."

The answers the BIB give to every doubt is the cause of international concern.

As to what Thai laws allow, you might want to check with the PM about that, as Burmese and UK police are coming over/already here to look at the case.

"You can look but don't touch anything!"

[hobz]

The court sent the evidence back to the police, and told them to fix it .. it was 900 pages.. after fixing it became 300 pages...

[hobz]

Yes but the time stamped video says the 15th and its at his apartment. The lawyer says he was in class 13th-15th and attended exams and has paperwork to prove it. Where's this paperwork. Where is a link to him being cleared by police. Cleared by his lawyer holding up a photo shopped photo is not the same as being cleared by the police. Links please to where police have cleared him by his alibi. A lawyer clearing you is not the same as the police clearing you.

The "investigation" has been so bungled that no real court would be able to convict anyone, except for the police officer that allowed the AC bar guy onto the crime scene (see attached thumbnail). I suspect that was the intent from the start. The list of police crimes (the result of negligence is a crime many are convicted of regularly), is pages long. See the AC bar guy at the crime scene assisting officers gather evidence (oh, that must have just fallen out of my pocket... Oh, how did that get there? that's mine, I've been looking for that... Oh, look over there, now see here what I have found...) The "evidence" against the current suspects is laughable and the original suspect has never been cleared to any reasonable level of proof or even a level that removes reasonable doubt.

Reference the original suspect, on the morning of the murders, the boy's father is seen on TV stating he is not sure where his son is and that he did not come home last night. The still frame supposedly from CCTV footage in the University, which turned out to have actually been from a nearby apartment, shows obvious signs of having been edited and there is no record of the actual CCTV film footage to collaborate anything. There are reports of a speed boat departing the island in the early morning hours that was suspected to have had the original suspect as a passenger. The police, as far as anyone knows, have not bothered to check the cell phone records or flight records or university records to confirm or reject the supposed alibi of the original suspect even though there is plenty of probable cause (i.e. "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true") which is reason enough to have all of those records checked in order to remove any suspicion.

The current suspects had no DNA evidence or blood on their persons or in their apartment even though they came home moments after having brutally murdered two persons which left the beach crime scene covered in blood for days, and there is no DNA from either of them on the supposed murder weapon. The are seen in line getting DNA tested, now they are cleared, now they are not cleared... Found the female victims phone, no wait it is the male victims phone, no wait that phone was left at the crime scene and also found again in the male victims luggage with evidence of blood and hair fibers... Taxi drivers bribed, witnesses threatened...

Thanks for writing it up in a way I couldn't manage.. Very nice writing .. you some kind of writer? And as you know, there's even more than what you just wrote... even more "stuff" (calling it evidence upsets the trolls) that points to the case being messed up.

[robert888d]

If the proud Thai authorities will not permit the British police to have an independent body DNA test the two scapegoats I mean suspects, then it seems pretty ponitless them bothering to come over to Thailand.

Edited October 23, 2014 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal.

[umbanda]

I am not optimistic. My opinion is that the case is CLOSE.

If the UK Police have material extracted from the victim corpse to do DNA testing, its can get material from the suspects parents and do the matching.....but never the Thai Police will allow any foreign Police to start a new investigation and prove, even if DNA do not match.

I hope I am wrong..but I do not believe that the UK Police will contest the Thai Police investigation in any way, and in any case, and creates a conflict.

It is some code between countries police to keep the existing cooperation going and in good terms.

The UK Police will be just looking at the file, and approve everything to keep "peace". Unfortunately that's how works..

[54321]

People mention a lot about university records. As a former teacher I had to sign in on arrival. It was customary to write any time that followed the previous teacher. Such records are worthless

[MaxLee]

The court sent the evidence back to the police, and told them to fix it .. it was 900 pages.. after fixing it became 300 pages...

Did the judges get their blood money???

[54321]

People mention a lot about university records. As a former teacher I had to sign in on arrival. It was customary to write any time that followed the previous teacher. Such records are worthless

[Gweiloman]

"When asked about international concerns over the investigation, Mr. Thawatchai said that Thai police will be able to answer every doubt raised but no outside authorities can send their people to work on this case as Thai laws do not permit such a scenario."

The answers the BIB give to every doubt is the cause of international concern.

As to what Thai laws allow, you might want to check with the PM about that, as Burmese and UK police are coming over/already here to look at the case.

"You can look but don't touch anything!"

Why does this remind me of soi Cowboy? Sorry,

[MaxLee]

People mention a lot about university records. As a former teacher I had to sign in on arrival. It was customary to write any time that followed the previous teacher. Such records are worthless

Brats from influential parents can just openly say: "you dare???!!!!! Do you know who my father is???!!!!"

Edited October 23, 2014 by MaxLee

[transam]

I am not optimistic. My opinion is that the case is CLOSE.

If the UK Police have material extracted from the victim corpse to do DNA testing, its can get material from the suspects parents and do the matching.....but never the Thai Police will allow any foreign Police to start a new investigation and prove, even if DNA do not match.

I hope I am wrong..but I do not believe that the UK Police will contest the Thai Police investigation in any way, and in any case, and creates a conflict.

It is some code between countries police to keep the existing cooperation going and in good terms.

The UK Police will be just looking at the file, and approve everything to keep "peace". Unfortunately that's how works..

You are not English or UK then........?

[heyexile]

The court sent the evidence back to the police, and told them to fix it .. it was 900 pages.. after fixing it became 300 pages...

Not fixed yet, see OP.

Prosecutor Thawatchai "...investigators have been instructed to conduct more probes" ie back to police, again!

Prosecutor Thawatchai "It remains unknown when the case will be complete and ready for filing."

So much for complete/perfect case.

[umbanda]

Yes but the time stamped video says the 15th and its at his apartment. The lawyer says he was in class 13th-15th and attended exams and has paperwork to prove it. Where's this paperwork. Where is a link to him being cleared by police. Cleared by his lawyer holding up a photo shopped photo is not the same as being cleared by the police. Links please to where police have cleared him by his alibi. A lawyer clearing you is not the same as the police clearing you.

The "investigation" has been so bungled that no real court would be able to convict anyone, except for the police officer that allowed the AC bar guy onto the crime scene (see attached thumbnail). I suspect that was the intent from the start. The list of police crimes (the result of negligence is a crime many are convicted of regularly), is pages long. See the AC bar guy at the crime scene assisting officers gather evidence (oh, that must have just fallen out of my pocket... Oh, how did that get there? that's mine, I've been looking for that... Oh, look over there, now see here what I have found...) The "evidence" against the current suspects is laughable and the original suspect has never been cleared to any reasonable level of proof or even a level that removes reasonable doubt.

Reference the original suspect, on the morning of the murders, the boy's father is seen on TV stating he is not sure where his son is and that he did not come home last night. The still frame supposedly from CCTV footage in the University, which turned out to have actually been from a nearby apartment, shows obvious signs of having been edited and there is no record of the actual CCTV film footage to collaborate anything. There are reports of a speed boat departing the island in the early morning hours that was suspected to have had the original suspect as a passenger. The police, as far as anyone knows, have not bothered to check the cell phone records or flight records or university records to confirm or reject the supposed alibi of the original suspect even though there is plenty of probable cause (i.e. "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true") which is reason enough to have all of those records checked in order to remove any suspicion.

The current suspects had no DNA evidence or blood on their persons or in their apartment even though they came home moments after having brutally murdered two persons which left the beach crime scene covered in blood for days, and there is no DNA from either of them on the supposed murder weapon. The are seen in line getting DNA tested, now they are cleared, now they are not cleared... Found the female victims phone, no wait it is the male victims phone, no wait that phone was left at the crime scene and also found again in the male victims luggage with evidence of blood and hair fibers... Taxi drivers bribed, witnesses threatened...

I agree with you, and if the UK Police was involved BEFORE the arrest and "confession"of the accused, was a chance to find the truth, not now.

Will be a very big surprise if the Thai Police admit any wrong doing and wrong conclusions. But...Who knows?

[jdinasia]

Not what I said.. But keep reading and you might get it.

Serious question : do you trust the RTP?

[hobz]

Since the killings, police have focused on finding Asian men of 170 centimetres tall and with a 40 shoe size, based on surveillance camera footage and footprints on Sairee beach where the couple died.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe/

Surely the scapegoats are 170 and have size 40 ..

A suspect caught by the surveillance camera of a resort wore pants and also had tattoo, according to the disclosure earlier by Montriwat Toovichien, the brother of the village headman, when he was questioned by the police as a suspect after he looked like the man on the tape. He was cleared when he had no tattoo.

<-- Any talk about tattoos on the scapegoats?

[bertty]

Gee wiz, these John guys must be using commodes

[Fozfromoz]

Just wonder why the cops do not want to catch the real killers?

A family related DNA test done by all residents of koh tao would reveal the killer and or what family the killer comes from,.

Uncles,brothers sisters cousins all have a match with the killer DNA...

It really easy cause Koh tao is a small island surely the killer has family members there. ....

Civil liberties?

Not afforded to all?

[Fozfromoz]

Just wonder why the cops do not want to catch the real killers?

A family related DNA test done by all residents of koh tao would reveal the killer and or what family the killer comes from,.

Uncles,brothers sisters cousins all have a match with the killer DNA...

It really easy cause Koh tao is a small island surely the killer has family members there. ....

Civil liberties?

Not afforded to all?

[OPG]

How many conflicting stories have come out of the Thai Authorities in regards to the confession? Always denying that the confession was retracted...ALWAYS! Now, they say that they are unfazed by the retraction of confession.

I guess the authorities believe that everyone is boozed up and on drugs to remember all of their mishaps.

This gets more ridiculous day by day.

[templedog]

"When asked about international concerns over the investigation, Mr. Thawatchai said that Thai police will be able to answer every doubt raised but no outside authorities can send their people to work on this case as Thai laws do not permit such a scenario."

The answers the BIB give to every doubt is the cause of international concern.

As to what Thai laws allow, you might want to check with the PM about that, as Burmese and UK police are coming over/already here to look at the case.

To observe as stated in the article. They are not here to investigate.

You seem to be getting worried.

Why would I be worried? I can read

Is it just me, or do you seem to be satisfied with the way this whole case has transpired? I mean, you obviously are on the side of the RTP, acting like a cheerleader for them, desperately posting every chance you get to discredit anyone's suspicion based on REALITY. What then is your purpose here? You remind me of those in the USA that wholeheartedly believe that the government and the police have our best interests in hand. I say this because of your posts. I bet you have no doubt that Osama Bin Laden orchestrated 911 from inside a cave in Afghanistan. Do you? Do us all a favor.........follow your motto as shown on your profile photo. You cannot cloak your opinions under words, pal, they shine through like a flag waiving nationalist.

Edited October 23, 2014 by templedog

[OPG]

How many conflicting stories have come out of the Thai Authorities in regards to the confession? Always denying that the confession was retracted...ALWAYS! Now, they say that they are unfazed by the retraction of confession.

I guess the authorities believe that everyone is boozed up and on drugs to remember all of their mishaps.

This gets more ridiculous day by day.

[CBR650]

One must be pretty sick to troll a thread about two young people violently raped and murdered (with seriously extreme amounts of violence, a real rage fueled destruction), and then two (all but) stateless boys with no ID papers tortured into confessing.

But there ya, suppose it's like an early Christmas present to a trolling sicko.

Edited October 23, 2014 by CBR650

[elektrified]

They will not unofficially either.

I do expect them to see the DNA results. They will not be able to independently verify results.

I do expect them to meet the suspects.

Not much else they can do other than look at photos.

There is no way a 'JD' could be that naive. Those in the know are aware that the British police have been investigating on their own for weeks now. They keep a very low profile. They won't tip their hand so early on. There is a deliberate attempt by a certain group of posters to cast negativity on everything and everyone who dosen't see things their way (or their boss's way).

[stephen terry]

I am hoping that the Brit police will use contradictory police reports (there are many published) to show to the defence lawyers. That's observation at it's basic.