Man beheads woman in New York

[draftvader]

Of course the media is going to jump on this and of course there will be an immediate assumption of Islamist-related bile. I suspect though that this will turn out to be simply a sick man.

You may be correct. It really depends on whether he turns out to be a recently converted Muslim, like so many of the recent beheadings have been.

Yes, it takes a particularly sick and gullible individual to convert to islam.

No more so than any other religion. To be an extremist (again, no matter which religion) does take a mentally ill, weak or gullible person.

[draftvader]

Shocking! Appalling.

There are sickos everywhere.

Of course the media is going to jump on this and of course there will be an immediate assumption of Islamist-related bile. I suspect though that this will turn out to be simply a sick man.

It would not be a bad assumption as I don't know many other groups that remove heads, do you. Of course this may be the exception to the rule?

The Japanese used to be quite the fans during ww2.

Wow, you held back Samran! Let me come in here then....you've left me PLENTY!

With no restriction to time I think you'll find every religion, country and splinter group has used this method. Most famously, of course, is the French. However throughout my country's history (England) it has been used in a "legal" manner (how barbaric is that?). As for mounting heads on spikes I'm not sure if we started it but our royals did so enjoy the heads of their opposition to be visible outside their houses as a timely reminder to obey their rule. I can keep playing about in history but coming to today an immediate group that comes to mind are the Mexican drugs cartels. They can't get enough of it. They video it too so that they become famous for it. We're not seeing these as they are not intended for our consumption. Mexico, on the other hand, is well aware that this is what happens if you try to break the drugs cartels.

[H1w4yR1da]

^^. My fanboy and stalker. Flattery will get you everywhere!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/flattery

[A1Str8]

Should have just jumped and leave the woman alone. What a honey.

[samran]

^^. My fanboy and stalker. Flattery will get you everywhere!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/flattery

Ah so you do know how to use google!!! Why not trot off and get some incriminating evidence against me? That a boy.

[samran]

Shocking! Appalling.

There are sickos everywhere.

Of course the media is going to jump on this and of course there will be an immediate assumption of Islamist-related bile. I suspect though that this will turn out to be simply a sick man.

It would not be a bad assumption as I don't know many other groups that remove heads, do you. Of course this may be the exception to the rule?

The Japanese used to be quite the fans during ww2.

Wow, you held back Samran! Let me come in here then....you've left me PLENTY!

With no restriction to time I think you'll find every religion, country and splinter group has used this method. Most famously, of course, is the French. However throughout my country's history (England) it has been used in a "legal" manner (how barbaric is that?). As for mounting heads on spikes I'm not sure if we started it but our royals did so enjoy the heads of their opposition to be visible outside their houses as a timely reminder to obey their rule. I can keep playing about in history but coming to today an immediate group that comes to mind are the Mexican drugs cartels. They can't get enough of it. They video it too so that they become famous for it. We're not seeing these as they are not intended for our consumption. Mexico, on the other hand, is well aware that this is what happens if you try to break the drugs cartels.

Haha. Now you'll get the rednecks calling you a radical Islamic sympathiser and trying to divert attention from the real story.

[draftvader]

It would not be a bad assumption as I don't know many other groups that remove heads, do you. Of course this may be the exception to the rule?

The Japanese used to be quite the fans during ww2.

Wow, you held back Samran! Let me come in here then....you've left me PLENTY!

With no restriction to time I think you'll find every religion, country and splinter group has used this method. Most famously, of course, is the French. However throughout my country's history (England) it has been used in a "legal" manner (how barbaric is that?). As for mounting heads on spikes I'm not sure if we started it but our royals did so enjoy the heads of their opposition to be visible outside their houses as a timely reminder to obey their rule. I can keep playing about in history but coming to today an immediate group that comes to mind are the Mexican drugs cartels. They can't get enough of it. They video it too so that they become famous for it. We're not seeing these as they are not intended for our consumption. Mexico, on the other hand, is well aware that this is what happens if you try to break the drugs cartels.

Haha. Now you'll get the rednecks calling you a radical Islamic sympathiser and trying to divert attention from the real story.

Of course that worries me. Living in Pak Kret I don't encounter too many rednecks.....either US or Thai

[samran]

It would not be a bad assumption as I don't know many other groups that remove heads, do you. Of course this may be the exception to the rule?

The Japanese used to be quite the fans during ww2.

Wow, you held back Samran! Let me come in here then....you've left me PLENTY!

With no restriction to time I think you'll find every religion, country and splinter group has used this method. Most famously, of course, is the French. However throughout my country's history (England) it has been used in a "legal" manner (how barbaric is that?). As for mounting heads on spikes I'm not sure if we started it but our royals did so enjoy the heads of their opposition to be visible outside their houses as a timely reminder to obey their rule. I can keep playing about in history but coming to today an immediate group that comes to mind are the Mexican drugs cartels. They can't get enough of it. They video it too so that they become famous for it. We're not seeing these as they are not intended for our consumption. Mexico, on the other hand, is well aware that this is what happens if you try to break the drugs cartels.

Haha. Now you'll get the rednecks calling you a radical Islamic sympathiser and trying to divert attention from the real story.

Of course that worries me. Living in Pak Kret I don't encounter too many rednecks.....either US or Thai

Nice part of the world. Poor buggers are looking at you enviously now given they are typing from the 300 baht per night hovel in pattaya hoping that the exchange rate on their pension goes the right way so they can afford two short times this month instead of the one.

No wonder they are so wound up!

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed.

[7by7]

<snip>

As the earlier post by a liberal clearly shows, the only thought process some liberals have is how does the topic fit into my dogma? The poster is angry because he considers it bigoted to say beheadings are commonly thought to be connected to Islam. In the liberal PC mindset it is always wrong to attach a particular pattern or practice with a particular group...even when the facts pointing clearly to the connection is easily proven.

Stopping to think if something is PC or not is really not original thought. It is dogma.

Posts from those you refer to as liberals were commenting on the conclusion certain posters would, and did, immediately jump to; a conclusion which has turned out to be completely unfounded.

Were these many posts from the usual suspects assuming without any evidence that the murderer must be a Muslim, probably a convert and certainly a radical jihadist not prompted by their own dogma?

Beheadings by radical Muslims, that is ISIS, are in much the news at the moment; but as another poster has said, they are not the only criminals who behead their victims; and those drug gangs are not just in Mexico.

Police warn Mexican drug cartels behind kidnappings, beheadings and murders have set up in Australia

In recent years these Mexican gangs have beheaded more people than all the radical Islamist groups put together. So if one is going to jump to a conclusion based upon events then that conclusion should have been that this murder was related to the Mexican drug cartels!

That's the problem with jumping to conclusions based on prejudice; invariably those so doing are completely wrong.

As has been proven, this tragic and brutal murder was not connected to either Mexican drug cartels nor radical Islamists.

Son Beheads College Professor, Then Jumps to Death in Front of Train: Police

The decapitated body of Patricia Ward, a 66-year-old associate professor of language arts at Farmingdale State College's LI Educational Opportunity Center, was found outside the complex on Secatogue Avenue around 8 p.m.

Police say her son, 35-year-old Derek Ward, killed her in their apartment and dragged her onto the street as commuters headed home from a nearby Long Island Rail Road station. She had broken ribs and had been stabbed repeatedly; her head was found 5 feet from where her body lay in the street.

The usual suspects were yet again wrong.

But that wont stop them peddling their bile again at the next opportunity.

Me? I prefer to await the facts before reaching a conclusion; even though doing so makes me someone who at best is a liberal with his head buried in the sand in the eyes of the usual suspects, and has even meant I've been accused of being an apologist for, even supporter of, terrorism by some of them.

[Scott]

Some inflammatory and off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. Continued nasty bickering and trollish remarks about other posters will result in suspensions.

Please stay on topic.

[7by7]

Some quotes removed to comply with forum software.

I am not against Capital Punishment...I would even prefer it myself over a life in prison.

As for the "botched" US executions, the condemned never felt a thing.

How do you know?

In the case quoted the condemned "gasped and snorted for more than 90 minutes."

How does that indicate that he "never felt a thing?"

According to my wife I gasp and snort most every night and yet I sleep like a baby.

The drugs these condemned men are on remove all the pain.

Ever been under sedation and had surgery performed?

Its like that.

With respect, gasping and snorting whilst asleep is a lot different to so doing after being given a lethal injection. If your gasps and snorts caused you pain or distress you would almost certainly awaken. Something a person given a lethal injection can't do!

Ever heard of patients waking up during surgery and sometimes feeling pain?

It's called, in the UK, Awareness during general anaesthesia.

So I ask again; how can you be 100% sure that in the case quoted, and the many similar instances, the condemned never felt a thing?

You can't.

Edited October 30, 2014 by 7by7

[ClutchClark]

<snip>

As the earlier post by a liberal clearly shows, the only thought process some liberals have is how does the topic fit into my dogma? The poster is angry because he considers it bigoted to say beheadings are commonly thought to be connected to Islam. In the liberal PC mindset it is always wrong to attach a particular pattern or practice with a particular group...even when the facts pointing clearly to the connection is easily proven.

Stopping to think if something is PC or not is really not original thought. It is dogma.

Posts from those you refer to as liberals were commenting on the conclusion certain posters would, and did, immediately jump to; a conclusion which has turned out to be completely unfounded.

Were these many posts from the usual suspects assuming without any evidence that the murderer must be a Muslim, probably a convert and certainly a radical jihadist not prompted by their own dogma?

Beheadings by radical Muslims, that is ISIS, are in much the news at the moment; but as another poster has said, they are not the only criminals who behead their victims; and those drug gangs are not just in Mexico.

Police warn Mexican drug cartels behind kidnappings, beheadings and murders have set up in Australia

In recent years these Mexican gangs have beheaded more people than all the radical Islamist groups put together. So if one is going to jump to a conclusion based upon events then that conclusion should have been that this murder was related to the Mexican drug cartels!

That's the problem with jumping to conclusions based on prejudice; invariably those so doing are completely wrong.

As has been proven, this tragic and brutal murder was not connected to either Mexican drug cartels nor radical Islamists.

Son Beheads College Professor, Then Jumps to Death in Front of Train: Police

The decapitated body of Patricia Ward, a 66-year-old associate professor of language arts at Farmingdale State College's LI Educational Opportunity Center, was found outside the complex on Secatogue Avenue around 8 p.m.

Police say her son, 35-year-old Derek Ward, killed her in their apartment and dragged her onto the street as commuters headed home from a nearby Long Island Rail Road station. She had broken ribs and had been stabbed repeatedly; her head was found 5 feet from where her body lay in the street.

The usual suspects were yet again wrong.

But that wont stop them peddling their bile again at the next opportunity.

Me? I prefer to await the facts before reaching a conclusion; even though doing so makes me someone who at best is a liberal with his head buried in the sand in the eyes of the usual suspects, and has even meant I've been accused of being an apologist for, even supporter of, terrorism by some of them.

Yeah, no doubt about that--Mexican drug gangs do their own fair share of beheadings--but do you actually have statistics to say the Mexicans perform more head from torso separations than all the Muslim countries combined?

But I do hear what you are saying, statistically speaking, the usual suspects were only half right, the safest response to the headline should have been, "I wonder if it was a Muslim or a Mexican Drug Gang?"

Between the two groups, they must account for 98% of the beheadings globally.

Edited October 30, 2014 by ClutchClark

[ClutchClark]

Some quotes removed to comply with forum software.

I am not against Capital Punishment...I would even prefer it myself over a life in prison.

As for the "botched" US executions, the condemned never felt a thing.

How do you know?

In the case quoted the condemned "gasped and snorted for more than 90 minutes."

How does that indicate that he "never felt a thing?"

According to my wife I gasp and snort most every night and yet I sleep like a baby.

The drugs these condemned men are on remove all the pain.

Ever been under sedation and had surgery performed?

Its like that.

With respect, gasping and snorting whilst asleep is a lot different to so doing after being given a lethal injection. If your gasps and snorts caused you pain or distress you would almost certainly awaken. Something a person given a lethal injection can't do!

Ever heard of patients waking up during surgery and sometimes feeling pain?

It's called, in the UK, Awareness during general anaesthesia.

So I ask again; how can you be 100% sure that in the case quoted, and the many similar instances, the condemned never felt a thing?

You can't.

Again, I do hear what you are saying.

So what do you figure the best solution is? More narcotics to put them into a deeper sleep OR cut out the anesthesia and bring back the guillotine or firing squad?

The lethal injection certainly seemed like a good idea until the pharmaceutical companies quit making the deadly cocktail available.

[ldnguy]

Shocking! Appalling.

There are sickos everywhere.

Of course the media is going to jump on this and of course there will be an immediate assumption of Islamist-related bile. I suspect though that this will turn out to be simply a sick man.

Don't talk such nonsense. No media that I have read or seen has mentioned any such thing. It seems to be a domestic dispute.

[7by7]

<snip>

In recent years these Mexican gangs have beheaded more people than all the radical Islamist groups put together.......

<snip>

Yeah, no doubt about that--Mexican drug gangs do their own fair share of beheadings--but do you actually have statistics to say the Mexicans perform more head from torso separations than all the Muslim countries combined?

I did not say Muslim countries; I said radical Islamist groups!

There is a difference.

I can't find any actual statistics, but I suspect that even if you did include those executed in Muslim countries which have the death penalty and execute by beheading, the Mexican drug cartels would still come out in front.

Mexico Drug Cartel Hitman Beheaded and Dismembered 800 Victims

A Mexican drug cartel hitman told a US court that he stopped counting the number of people he had killed when he got to 800.

Jesus Castillo told jurors in an El Paso federal court that during his days as a paid killer in the ranks of the Barrio Azteca gang, he often beheaded and dismembered victims to impress his boss.

800 plus by just one man!

[7by7]

<snip>

So what do you (7by7) figure the best solution (for state executions) is? More narcotics to put them into a deeper sleep OR cut out the anesthesia and bring back the guillotine or firing squad?

As I said before, I am against the death penalty; so my simple answer to your questions is; abolition.

I am against it not only on humanitarian grounds but also, possibly mainly, because of the many people who have been convicted of a capital crime and subsequently found to have been innocent.

A well known example in the UK:

Derek William Bentley "A victim of British justice?".

Derek Bentley was hanged on the 28th of January 1953, at the age of 19 and the above words appear on his grave stone.

On the 30th of July 1998, the Appeal Court finally ruled (after 45 years of campaigning by his father, sister Iris and since Iris' death the previous year, by her daughter, Maria Bentley Dingwall), that his conviction was unsafe

Serving a long prison term when you are innocent is bad enough; but at least once your innocence is proven you are released and compensated.

But if you're dead, you stay dead!

[H1w4yR1da]

So what do you (7by7) figure the best solution (for state executions) is? More narcotics to put them into a deeper sleep OR cut out the anesthesia and bring back the guillotine or firing squad?

As I said before, I am against the death penalty; so my simple answer to your questions is; abolition.

I am against it not only on humanitarian grounds but also, possibly mainly, because of the many people who have been convicted of a capital crime and subsequently found to have been innocent.

A well known example in the UK:

Derek William Bentley "A victim of British justice?".

Derek Bentley was hanged on the 28th of January 1953, at the age of 19 and the above words appear on his grave stone.

On the 30th of July 1998, the Appeal Court finally ruled (after 45 years of campaigning by his father, sister Iris and since Iris' death the previous year, by her daughter, Maria Bentley Dingwall), that his conviction was unsafe

Serving a long prison term when you are innocent is bad enough; but at least once your innocence is proven you are released and compensated.

But if you're dead, you stay dead!

But technology has obviously changed since those mistakes were made. Advances in DNA testing, facial recognition software etc. make it harder for the innocent to be put to death. The death sentence should only be carried out in extreme cases where there is irrefutable evidence. Quoting s case from the 1950's isn't really relevant to today's system.

[7by7]

You obviously know nothing about Derek Bentley's case. The advances you mention would have made no difference. No one has ever denied he was there. No one denied that he was under arrest when Craig started shooting and when Craig fired the shot which killed PC Miles.

No technology is fool proof.

Mistakes can still be made.

People can still be 'fitted up' by the corrupt or incompetent.

An innocent person wrongly convicted and sent to prison can be released when their innocence is proven.

You can't bring a dead person back to life.

[Bwanatickey]

A Son cuts his Mothers head off in New York, not even an Afghan Taliban can't cut the mustard that low.

[bigjules007]

Shocking! Appalling.

There are sickos everywhere.

Of course the media is going to jump on this and of course there will be an immediate assumption of Islamist-related bile. I suspect though that this will turn out to be simply a sick man.

What was the first thing to spring to mind for you? For me, and I am sure many others, was the question, "Was he muslim?"

That's because of the splendid job the western media have done at demonising the muslim people. The mans name was Derek Ward an American mental case, you see other people are capable of beheading too you know.

[bigjules007]

But because this kid was a sick American i guess everythings ok now, and you can go and look for another excuse to go and bash muslims!

Edited November 1, 2014 by bigjules007

[F430murci]

The reason we all think this guy might be a Muslim? They've got quite a lot of previous. Don't blame us: Blame them.

Come on, most killings are by non Muslim Americans, don't generalize, how many previous? Tell us. Bring numbers...

How many non-Muslims kill their victims by beheading?

Jeffery Dahmer.

Lol, so we are putting Muslims at the same level as Jeffrey Dahmer. Alright.

Edited November 1, 2014 by F430murci

[F430murci]

But because this kid was a sick American i guess everythings ok now, and you can go and look for another excuse to go and bash muslims!

No need to look for any excuses, they are great at supping those daily with their own actions.

[bigjules007]

But because this kid was a sick American i guess everythings ok now, and you can go and look for another excuse to go and bash muslims!

No need to look for any excuses, they are great at supping those daily with their own actions.

Wow, great post, keep them coming

[Scott]

A post which violates Fair Use Policy has been removed.

You are only allowed to quote the headline and the first 3 sentences to an article and then a link.

[bigjules007]

Heres some info on the killer, as you will see he is not a muslim, just a run of the mill American psycho type:

The New York man who beheaded his mother before jumping in front of a train Tuesday night was off his medication and scheduled to see his psychiatrist, according to family.

Rev. Robert Lubrano, brother of slain professor Patricia Ward, told the New York Daily News that his

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/31/derek-ward-beheaded-mother_n_6081498.html

Edited November 2, 2014 by bigjules007

[ClutchClark]

Heres some info on the killer, as you will see he is not a muslim, just a run of the mill American psycho type:

The New York man who beheaded his mother before jumping in front of a train Tuesday night was off his medication and scheduled to see his psychiatrist, according to family.

Rev. Robert Lubrano, brother of slain professor Patricia Ward, told the New York Daily News that his

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/31/derek-ward-beheaded-mother_n_6081498.html

And this is a great example of cultural differences. In the Western world, only a raving madman off his meds would decapitate another human--contrast against the Muslim world where its sponsored by Gov'ts and an accepted cultural practice.

Now, Jules, can we steer this conversation towards the need for earlier recognition and treatment for Americans suffering mental health issues. There are far too many falling through the cracks and innocent victims are paying the price.

[bigjules007]

Heres some info on the killer, as you will see he is not a muslim, just a run of the mill American psycho type:

The New York man who beheaded his mother before jumping in front of a train Tuesday night was off his medication and scheduled to see his psychiatrist, according to family.

Rev. Robert Lubrano, brother of slain professor Patricia Ward, told the New York Daily News that his

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/31/derek-ward-beheaded-mother_n_6081498.html

And this is a great example of cultural differences. In the Western world, only a raving madman off his meds would decapitate another human--contrast against the Muslim world where its sponsored by Gov'ts and an accepted cultural practice.

Now, Jules, can we steer this conversation towards the need for earlier recognition and treatment for Americans suffering mental health issues. There are far too many falling through the cracks and innocent victims are paying the price.

I dont see this thread being named "Early recognition and treatment for Americans suffering mental health issues"

"Man beheads woman in New York"

I was just stating the obvious and responding to some of the members who automatically presumed this was a muslim crime, as well as posting some info about the actual man who committed the crime an American Psycho Type, god knows the Americans have produced a few over the years and a few of them have prominent government positions.

Please dont patronise me Clutch i dont respond well to suggestions

Edited November 2, 2014 by bigjules007

[ClutchClark]

Heres some info on the killer, as you will see he is not a muslim, just a run of the mill American psycho type:

The New York man who beheaded his mother before jumping in front of a train Tuesday night was off his medication and scheduled to see his psychiatrist, according to family.

Rev. Robert Lubrano, brother of slain professor Patricia Ward, told the New York Daily News that his

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/31/derek-ward-beheaded-mother_n_6081498.html

And this is a great example of cultural differences. In the Western world, only a raving madman off his meds would decapitate another human--contrast against the Muslim world where its sponsored by Gov'ts and an accepted cultural practice.

Now, Jules, can we steer this conversation towards the need for earlier recognition and treatment for Americans suffering mental health issues. There are far too many falling through the cracks and innocent victims are paying the price.

I dont see this thread being named "Early recognition and treatment for Americans suffering mental health issues"

"Man beheads woman in New York"

I was just stating the obvious and responding to some of the members who automatically presumed this was a muslim crime, as well as posting some info about the actual man who committed the crime an American Psycho Type, god knows the Americans have produced a few over the years and a few of them have prominent government positions.

Please dont patronise me Clutch i dont respond well to suggestions

Are you actually using this sad story and victim as a platform to expound on your views of American Politics and to discuss your likes and dislikes?

Rather poor taste, eh?

Edited November 2, 2014 by ClutchClark