Teaching contract advice, early termination

[Dalesh]

Hello,

I am currently in search of some sound advice regarding my teaching contract that I have with a kindergarten school in Bangkok.

My contract states that I am a teaching assistant and relays all of the duties I have to do based on that job role. However, my job mainly includes the individual supervision of a child who is blind & has learning difficulties.

I am not qualified in looking after a child with these difficulties and would not have applied for the job if this was the situation. I am on day 3 (within my contract) and I have raised my concerns and identified today that I do not want this job roles as I did not sign up to be a learning support/one-to-one mentor for a child.

I was informed in my interview that there was a child in my class that was visually impaired, however, there was no further information divulged that he had learning difficulties. The director/head teacher state they where unsure of this when I was interviewed but now I have started it very apparent. For me, not a doctor it is very apparent within minutes of meeting him. 7

I would like to terminate my contract, however, the effects of termination are severe : Section 3, part 3:1 Effect of termination of contract by the teaching assistant:

if the teacher terminated his or her own employment before the contract expiration. the teacher shall pay the school liquidation damages equal to the teachers gross salary of two months immediately......and shall work for one month following the resignation,. The term and condition is including the probation period.

I feel as though they have breached my contract and I don't want to full fill these above requirements and continue in a job which I was wrongfully signed in to?

Another area to this extensive situation, I have not got enough time on my tourist visa to complete the process of the working visa at immigration and at current I am refusing to pay to extend my tourist visa to upgrade to the working visa. Therefore I do not have a work permit visa, does this make my contract void?

Please help with any advice.

Thank you so much in advance

[brianp0803]

Wow. I sympathize with you.

I hope someone can help.

It seems unfair they can fire you in the probation period but you can't quit.

If you performed unsatisfactory during the probation period would they terminate your contract?

If you come to work late and no lesson plans and do nothing will the school terminate you?

If you have not applied for the non-b then the only document of you working there is the contract.

If you get a Non-b then it is recorded in your passport.

You could remind them you can't legally work until the work permit is issued.

The are asking you to work illegally now.

Does the contract say you must pay for the non-b? Can you refuse?

[Dalesh]

My concern is 1) if I do not full fill my notice period what can they do? 2) the money I am meant to pay for terminating my contract?

This is a very switched on school and I am worried they are going to go to town with me? But this is only day 3 in my contract I am on my prohibition period BUT it does state all of my above concerns are applicable in the prob period

The work permit etc is to be paid by the school, but, as I don't have enough on my tourist visa they can't apply for me and I have at current refused to pay for it as I don't want to concrete myself further in to a job I don't feel qualified to do/want to do..... But I am worried about all the tha laws against not fulfilling your notice period etc

Thank you for your advice

Any more is greatly welcomed x

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Just to point out in many countries 'teaching assistant' is the job title given to untrained and unqualified people assigned to control a disabled or challenged child in a school environment. In other words a minder.

In this Thai school it appears they hired within the correct job description.

As you have no WP you are working illegally, no contract with illegal workers can be enforced.

Just walk away.

[brianp0803]

The switched on school is asking you to work illegally before the work permit is issued.

Although common practice, I believe illegal. I think you could state you don't want to work illegal.

I believe in keeping your promise but it sounds like you were lied to.

What you described, all the teachers in the school would know about this child- hence your employment.

People often break contracts. Not sure how much effort they would go to to collect from you when they have not gotten the documentation for you to legally start working for them.

Early termination penalty of 2 months salary (including probation) is unusual but you did sign the contract.

Are they asking you to pay for a trip to extend your visa or get new visa?

You can refuse anything not in the contract.

You can refuse to work illegal.

You can do a bad job and let them terminate you during probation period.

[Dalesh]

Thankyou for your advice,

These duties of minder to an individual child are not stipulated in my duties within that job role.

I have nothing in my passport to say I have a work permit and I am refusing to pay for my tourist visa extension.. ... In order to go to immigration, they can't pay all on my behalf can they? Without my passport...

I have the documents from the school of all my certificates/passport copy etc and a letter in thai on the front which i think is confirming the application of the visa and the school....... All of which I was meant to go to immigration with today.

So they where in the process of getting it for me... But it is me refusing to get it.? How does this work? Will it work against me?

I'm concerned of the penalties for not fulfilling notice period and paying money

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Thankyou for your advice,

These duties of minder to an individual child are not stipulated in my duties within that job role.

None the less, that is the usual role.

[brianp0803]

I would assume a title of teaching assistant means you are assisting the primary teachers and not the sole caretaker.

If you took a job as assistant teacher I might assume you are not qualified for a regular teaching position.

Don't work illegally in a job you don't want.

[Dalesh]

Can someone confirm that work a permit has to be issued in my passport for it to be be Regarded as the document I would need to legally be starting work? And if it is not my contract is void?

I mentioned in my previous post, they where in the process of doing as I was meant to go to immigration today... But refused to.

I did sign the contract, I hate myself for this!

No they just want me to go to immigration to add an extra month to my existing tourist visa, then at the same time get my work permit (I think) as apparently I can't get my work permit visa unless I have a month on my tourist visa

Thank you everyone for the advice

[brianp0803]

The law is you wait until the work permit is issued to start working.

What did they want to do at immigration today? Pay for extension to your tourist visa? Apply for non-b?

What happens if you can't find your passport?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Can someone confirm that work a permit has to be issued in my passport for it to be be Regarded as the document I would need to legally be starting work? And if it is not my contract is void?

I mentioned in my previous post, they where in the process of doing as I was meant to go to immigration today... But refused to.

I did sign the contract, I hate myself for this!

No they just want me to go to immigration to add an extra month to my existing tourist visa, then at the same time get my work permit (I think) as apparently I can't get my work permit visa unless I have a month on my tourist visa

Thank you everyone for the advice

You can't get a WP on a tourist VISA.

You need a non-Imm (B?) VISA.

They are lying to you.

Just don't turn up for work again, what they gonna do?

Forget the 3 days pay, that's gone.

[brianp0803]

Possibly post that exact question in the visa forum as a new thread. Ubonjoe will probably notice it and reply.

I think ubonjoe has said before that the work permit is required to work legally.

He is the expert here. He would know certain.

[Dalesh]

So if there is nothing in my passport then I can't officially have one? I'm just second guessing the things I have signed for now at the school and don't want it to be document I have signed in the school. Does there need to be a stamp in my passport?

They wanted me to pay 1,900 bht for a visa extension on my tourist visa & then, it would mean they could then get the working visa ( not sure what type non- etc

[brianp0803]

Ever teacher I have seen starts work immediately on a tourist visa while the school gets approval from the labor board to get the non-b visa.

The work permit comes later.

I think this is common practice but not the legal path.

Typically schools wait until the probation period to complete and pay for work permit.

[Scott]

I would check with someone with some legal expertise. I believe that during probation, either side can end the employment...but I could be wrong on that point. They can enforce anything in a contract which contravenes Thai law. A contract cannot be used to deny a person's lawful employment rights.

Usually, if they have done this, then the entire contract is void.

Most employers hold all the cards, but if you are going to get out then do so before the non-B legally ties you to the school.

Best of luck and keep us informed.

[Scott]

If you still have a tourist visa then you are working illegally.

You must have a non-immigrant B (sometimes a non-O) visa to have a work permit. You will have to go to the Ministry of Labor for the Work Permit. If you haven't gone there, then you don't have a work permit.

[brianp0803]

You have a tourist visa.

Impossible to get a work permit on a tourist visa

With 15-21 days left on your tourist visa you can apply for non-b visa(maybe 1,900 baht)

This would be a half page stamp in your passport with the name of your school and 3 month valid stay date.

Then they can get the work permit

Your current status in Thailand is tourist. Work prohibited

[Eddy B]

Just to point out in many countries 'teaching assistant' is the job title given to untrained and unqualified people assigned to control a disabled or challenged child in a school environment. In other words a minder.

In this Thai school it appears they hired within the correct job description.

As you have no WP you are working illegally, no contract with illegal workers can be enforced.

Just walk away.

I agree with AnotherOneAmerican. Just walk away. The 3 days you have worked are lost in the way of cash. You do not have a finalised contract as you have not changed your visa from tourist to Non-B. You have not got a work permit so again that has not attached your visa to a school. If you just walk they can not touch you. If you decide you want to find work after this, do it in a different area of BKK. Let us know how it goes!

[brianp0803]

When did you apply for the job?

When did you present all your documents to be copied?

Did you get the job through an agency or directly through the school?

Not sure what you mean by switched on school.

If it all happened quickly then the school is not at a loss and will not pursue money.

Unless it is a high position and they turned down other people and waited for you to start then you are just a warm body to fill the position and are easily replaced.

I agree. Walk away. There is no official record of you working there.

But if your tourist visa is about to expire then you need to extend you visa or leave soon.

[SOTIRIOS]

...hmm...just out of curiosity...what part of town is the school located in......

[rich666]

Sounds like the school know exactly what they are doing, almost like they have been through this before!

Ubonjoe and siam legal will have good clear advice for you.

You have my sympathies and if your gut is telling you that something isn'tright...its probably true.

[brianp0803]

What are you going to do?

Unless you have a high salary job, it is not worth their time to collect the money.

Some schools collect 2,000 baht per month for 7 months it is returned on completion of contract.

But this does not protect them from people leaving after 1 month.

If you have other options I would not show up the next day.

Once you get the non-b there will be a record in you passport about working there.

Get out before that happens

[jerryw]

You say you are on a tourist visa. You are not allowed to work on a tourist visa. If the company is not willing to help you secure the proper visa and work permit, you don't have to pay much attention to the contract. I would just walk away.

It is illegal for them to have you work without a work permit. The work permit is not in your passport, it is a separate document. If you are working there without a work permit it could mean legal trouble for them. Again, I would just walk away. If they want to make an issue, as long as you are a tourist I don't think there is much of an issue they can make.

In the future, NEVER accept a contract that says you need to pay your employer. It's a sure sign they don't mean to treat you fairly. Again, I would walk away and get away from this outfit as quickly as possible and not look back.

Also, don't trust this school with your passport. You can get a 30-day extension for 1900 THB, but that would not qualify for the work permit.

Typically, when you are hired for a teaching job, there is a 3 month probationary period. The school would have to send all sorts of documents to a Thai consulate in another country (let's say Penang, Malaysia) where the foreign teacher would apply for a non-immigrant visa. Legally, you are not supposed to begin working before you have the non-immigrant visa. And you can only get a non-immigrant visa outside of Thailand, so far as I know. And you can only get a non-immigrant visa if your workplace provides documents to show that they agree to hire you. The non-immigrant visa is a 3-month visa, which coincides with the school's 3-month probationary period. The non-immigrant visa can be extended after probation.

Again, don't think too much about the contract; just get away from these people. There are decent places to work, and decent people to work for all over Thailand.

Edited October 30, 2014 by jerryw

[jacksam]

OP your fretting over nothing. Just walk away .....

Nothing will happen. Put it down to experience. You haven't invested a lot of time in the job......as the song goes..."hit the road jack......"

[KIWIBATCH]

My advice...

1.Sit out the remaining days of this month....(i am assuming you will receive a portion of a months (October) salary seeing as you have only been at the school 3 days)

2. Keep your mouth shut...do not tell the school you are leaving

3. Check that the portion of salary has gone into your bank...when it has...empty your bank a/c out...barring 500b

4. WALK AWAY

Don't get involved with discussions with Thai school directors, Thai teachers whatever....don't start quoting or referring to your "contract"...it is a worthless document anyway....Thai schools will always circumvent anything written in it

Move on...plenty of other teaching jobs available

[casualbiker]

There are still many possibilities to get a new job NOW. But if you wait much passed November 1st these will start being filled .. check out all the Facebook sites for teaching in Thailand ..or Ajarn.com ... loads of job's available!

[tonypace02]

I have sued 2 schools in Thailand, a university and a private school, for early termination and both schools settled for more than double what was owed me plus legal expenses. Farang teachers have rights but prefer to whine about schools rather than do something about it. I know of two other farang teachers who sued successfully. I have taught in two other Thai schools since without any problems. When I first applied for a teaching position in Thailand, I was a newly retired English teacher from the USA. Knowing from experience that educational institutions do not function logically or even legally sometimes, but always with complete disregard for the rights of faculty and staff, I spent countless hours pouring over complaints and experiences posted on AJARN.COM. Still, I made mistakes, the biggest one being failing to secure a copy of my contract. The judges told me in the first case that the contract was everything in litigation. The school never gave me a copy of the contract then told the court that its copy was lost. Then I told the judges that a copy of the contract accompanied my application to the labor ministry for my work permit. My lawyer requested a subpoena and the school's lawyer immediately began negotiating for a settlement.

When dealing with any organization in Asia, you must keep this caveat in mind. In the Asian cultures, supervisors and managers enjoy absolute authority over subordinates and are never challenged or questioned by them. Management personnel do not learn the law because they are the law. They have nothing but contempt for anyone who suggests they may be in error. And to be challenged successfully by a subordinate results in a gross loss of face. (Ergo, the rush to negotiate.)

Litigation in Thai courts is very much the same as in Western Courts. First you get all of your ducks in a row: documents, witnesses, reports, a list of appropriate details, and a log of steps you have taken in connection with your complaint. Get an appointment with a reputable attorney. Make sure you get a written agreement with the attorney, and do what he tells you. I can't guarantee you will be treated 100% fairly, but neither could I make that guarantee in Chicago, or Leeds, or La Rochelle, or anywhere else in the world. But you will have as good a chance here as in any of those places. Possibly better, because the people you are challenging have already screwed up by operating on the arrogant faith that you have no power in this country. In fact, I have concluded that farang believe that they have no power in Thailand because Thais tell them that. Also, because farang just don't want to go to the trouble to fight back.

If you are not using Ajarn.com, I suggest you join immediately. The posts of other teachers will help you avoid many of the pitfalls of dealing with pedagogical martinets as well as keep you abreast of legal and occupational matters involved in the teaching profession.

[casualbiker]

I have sued 2 schools in Thailand, a university and a private school, for early termination and both schools settled for more than double what was owed me plus legal expenses. Farang teachers have rights but prefer to whine about schools rather than do something about it. I know of two other farang teachers who sued successfully. I have taught in two other Thai schools since without any problems. When I first applied for a teaching position in Thailand, I was a newly retired English teacher from the USA. Knowing from experience that educational institutions do not function logically or even legally sometimes, but always with complete disregard for the rights of faculty and staff, I spent countless hours pouring over complaints and experiences posted on AJARN.COM. Still, I made mistakes, the biggest one being failing to secure a copy of my contract. The judges told me in the first case that the contract was everything in litigation. The school never gave me a copy of the contract then told the court that its copy was lost. Then I told the judges that a copy of the contract accompanied my application to the labor ministry for my work permit. My lawyer requested a subpoena and the school's lawyer immediately began negotiating for a settlement.

When dealing with any organization in Asia, you must keep this caveat in mind. In the Asian cultures, supervisors and managers enjoy absolute authority over subordinates and are never challenged or questioned by them. Management personnel do not learn the law because they are the law. They have nothing but contempt for anyone who suggests they may be in error. And to be challenged successfully by a subordinate results in a gross loss of face. (Ergo, the rush to negotiate.)

Litigation in Thai courts is very much the same as in Western Courts. First you get all of your ducks in a row: documents, witnesses, reports, a list of appropriate details, and a log of steps you have taken in connection with your complaint. Get an appointment with a reputable attorney. Make sure you get a written agreement with the attorney, and do what he tells you. I can't guarantee you will be treated 100% fairly, but neither could I make that guarantee in Chicago, or Leeds, or La Rochelle, or anywhere else in the world. But you will have as good a chance here as in any of those places. Possibly better, because the people you are challenging have already screwed up by operating on the arrogant faith that you have no power in this country. In fact, I have concluded that farang believe that they have no power in Thailand because Thais tell them that. Also, because farang just don't want to go to the trouble to fight back.

If you are not using Ajarn.com, I suggest you join immediately. The posts of other teachers will help you avoid many of the pitfalls of dealing with pedagogical martinets as well as keep you abreast of legal and occupational matters involved in the teaching profession.

Quick question : this was in labour court, right?

[brianp0803]

At my old school teachers had to sign the contract but we didn't get the contract back with the director's signature for 3 months.

The teachers were under contract immediately but the school withheld returning the signed contract for 3 months.

[Dalesh]

I have been to the Ministry of labour today and they have said that the contract is still valid even though I don't have a working visa, and they can take me to court if they want. But I have a good case due the miss leading job role.

Hopefully I can dispute my case through emails and not go to court. As Iv now handed my notice in and have left the school.