Bilingual Schools In Bangkok

[thaigene2]

Hi thanks for your help.

Our oldest child attends a bi-lingual kindergarten in BKK. It's a hi-so Thai sort of place..only one other luuk krung child (aside from ours). But the class size is 29..(K2), English is only taught a couple of hours per day, and it's 110,000 Baht ++ per year.

So .. learning from my mistakes, we are now looking for a better deal for Primary bi-lingual education with more english and a good curriculum where the kids are actively involved, farang (native english) teachers are not only present, but teach the bulk of the class hours each day. There should also be no more than around 15 kids per class I think..

We can't afford international schools, though Rasami has been considered. But even that would break us when the 2nd child is old enough to attend

Does anyone know from personal experience a primary school that can match or exceed above requirements? Needs to be central Bangkok (say from Vibibadi-Rangsit in the east over to the river and central lad-prao area in the north and no farther south than the downtown core)

Thanks again if you have any advice

[jbowman1993]

While a lot of the teachers seem to complain about them, I have heard many good things from parents whose children attend the Sarasas Witead Bilingual Schools.

I have a newborn myself, and we live out in far west Bangkok, so international schools are not an option. Have thought about the Sarasas Witead Bangbon School as a good option, as many of the farang at my university have kids that go there.

[Thaiboxer]

You'll have to look really hard for a bilingual school with 15 or fewer students per class. Most have around 30 and this doesn't seem to be affected by tuition fees either. The word "bilingual" is often misued just as the word "international" is. A true bilingual school should be teaching roughly half their subjects/activities in English and the other half in Thai. This is often not the case and many "bilingual" schools are simply expensive, Thai private schools with a compliment of foreign teachers who teach in English. Some schools may also reteach the English classes in Thai at the end of the day which undermines having an English cirriculum.

Beware of the Sarasass schools!! In addition to mistreating teachers (which is no good for the kids either), the level of education isn't great. Sarasass isn't a well-known school in terms of quality, rather they were well-known since there are so many of them. It's a franchise just like 7-11. I have heard that they were good for disciplining the students though.

[Khun Jean]

I have this "school" finding problem too.

Still have about a year to find a good one. Sofar no luck. Real International schools are out of my budget. I have 2 children and it would severly damage financial security. 100-200 Kb per year would be OK. The international schools seem to be a lot higher. Not wanting to live in Bangkok makes it more difficult to find a good school.

For the 100-200Kb you would expect some quality. Check out the site www.ajarn.com. It is a teachers site and it is a good site to ask questions about schools.

[Amyji]

I might be biased since I used to teach at this school, but it is in the vicinity of the area you need and the bilingual program is pretty good. I taught math, science, health, English, geography and the fun clubs in English language. The students had a back up class in Thai once a week (I taught math four days a week and the Thai teacher went over the same subject matter in Thai once a week to make sure the students understand.) The school even had a farang PE teacher.

The foreign teachers were happy (at that time) and happy teachers do their jobs well. I left the school to move back to the US last year, but I think they have added a kindergarten curriculum since that time. There were also quite a few luuk krung kids attending and the class sizes were at a manageable number. Put it this way, if my husband and I were to move back to Thailand, I would want to work here and send my son to this school. I don't want to name the school on this forum, but if you click this link it will take you to the school's website. I hope this helps. Go to the school and check it out for yourself. Ask for Aeid, as she's the admin lady there and speaks perfect English and is wonderful.

[samran]

I might be biased since I used to teach at this school, but it is in the vicinity of the area you need and the bilingual program is pretty good. I taught math, science, health, English, geography and the fun clubs in English language. The students had a back up class in Thai once a week (I taught math four days a week and the Thai teacher went over the same subject matter in Thai once a week to make sure the students understand.) The school even had a farang PE teacher.

The foreign teachers were happy (at that time) and happy teachers do their jobs well. I left the school to move back to the US last year, but I think they have added a kindergarten curriculum since that time. There were also quite a few luuk krung kids attending and the class sizes were at a manageable number. Put it this way, if my husband and I were to move back to Thailand, I would want to work here and send my son to this school. I don't want to name the school on this forum, but if you click this link it will take you to the school's website. I hope this helps. Go to the school and check it out for yourself. Ask for Aeid, as she's the admin lady there and speaks perfect English and is wonderful.

The CV's of the international teachers don't seem to indicate that there are too many B.Ed's amongst them!

[Amyji]

The CV's of the international teachers don't seem to indicate that there are too many B.Ed's amongst them!

Yes, bilingual schools do not yet require a B.Ed. for foreign teachers. As long as a foreign teacher has some teaching experience (preferably 3 years or more) a university degree and a certificate to teach English as a foreign language, that person is qualified to teach at better bilingual schools in Thailand. I do not have a B.Ed., but I got many job offers and this school would take me back in a second because I'm very good with the kids, the parents like me and being a farang woman is a plus for teaching the little ones. Having the the B.Ed. is only one small part of the overall qualities Thais look for in their farang teachers. You've got to be easy going, fun in class with a demeanor that both the students and their parents like. The ability to get along well with other staff members is also critical. But this is getting off topic, so I will leave it at that. I still recommend this school to the OP.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'd like to make a few comments here. It's true that few of us teachers in Bangkok bilingual schools have educational degrees. I have a degree in a subject, and I teach that subject- I also have a number of years of TEFL experience previously. However, as you parents have noticed, for the schools here to employ teachers with Eds' after their names requires them to pay exorbitantly high salaries, which translates into huge fees for you. Not every English-speaking parent here is making the international expat's salary with expenses necessary to pay such fees. Furthermore, it is not impossible to make a school with subject-educated teachers work; I am in a school which I am proud to say has excellent and impressive staff, and if I were to have children of the right age I would not hesitate to enroll them in my own program. [i'm sorry, but because of considerations of anonymity I will not post more details about my own school here].

I think that in many ways your interests are similar to the interests of the better teachers in Bangkok, and in that cause I recommend that you read and post on the various teachers' boards (including the one here, of course). Ajarn (www.ajarnforum.net) can be informative, but I'm afraid it's rather rough; you may not find it a very "family-oriented" site. Teflwatch.org (www.teflwatch.org/forum) has a forum on which you can read how a school treats its teachers (and sometimes its kids). And I recommend that you read this thread I recently wrote in the teaching subforum, which was specifically directed towards parents looking for bilingual school programs, or EPs:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=76103

Another thread worth looking at might be this one, where we teachers post the names of schools (no details) which we wouldn't recommend to our friends (for working). I think it's a safe bet that if we wouldn't recommend them to our friends for work, we also wouldn't recommend them to parents for their kids:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=31430

Good luck, and if I can offer any advice please don't hesitate to ask.

"Steven"

[jbowman1993]

I appreciate the advice Steven. I think they list is a good starting point. I would also caution people from relying too much on teachers opinions when deciding about school. They can form a part of your decision making process, but they shouldn't be the deciding factor. Too many teachers who post on the websites have an axe to grind with former administrators, and their opinions aren't unbiased.

Just as important would be talking with parents of current students. Finding out their thoughts about the school, educational quality, etc.

[MikeWill]

thaigene2,

I am not in a position to make recommendations especially in public, but if you PM me, would be glad to tell you about the school my daughter (almost 4) is attending.

[nickkaskanlian]

I have this "school" finding problem too.

Still have about a year to find a good one. Sofar no luck. Real International schools are out of my budget. I have 2 children and it would severly damage financial security. 100-200 Kb per year would be OK. The international schools seem to be a lot higher. Not wanting to live in Bangkok makes it more difficult to find a good school.

For the 100-200Kb you would expect some quality. Check out the site www.ajarn.com. It is a teachers site and it is a good site to ask questions about schools.

hi this is nick. i have lived in bangkok and phuket. i have a 6 year old daughter and school in bangkok was to exspencive. i have moved down to phuket and found a wonderfull school called kajonkietsuksa. they teach english and thai and my daughter has learned so much more in phuket then she did in bangkok.. i pay just under 100k baht per year in phuket and when i was in bangkok i was paying well over 200k baht per year.\

so check out a diffrent location if you are tired of bangkok.

take care

nick

[bogi]

HI!

I'm having a hard time to figure out which schools are that I really have to pay for education,or just have the name 'international' which means barely nothing but the same as a bilingual education system. I'm a junior grade highschool student,right now in the US, and I want to find a good,but not too expensive international,or bilingual highschool in Bangkok,for my last high school year. I don't speak thai,and I don't know a lot about bilingual high schools.Do they require to speak thai? do they have ONLY english speaking classes? Does anyone know a good international school (fees around baht 100,000-200,000/YEAR)

I really ask for someone's help!!

Thank you!

[geovalin]

Hi thanks for your help.

Our oldest child attends a bi-lingual kindergarten in BKK. It's a hi-so Thai sort of place..only one other luuk krung child (aside from ours). But the class size is 29..(K2), English is only taught a couple of hours per day, and it's 110,000 Baht ++ per year.

So .. learning from my mistakes, we are now looking for a better deal for Primary bi-lingual education with more english and a good curriculum where the kids are actively involved, farang (native english) teachers are not only present, but teach the bulk of the class hours each day. There should also be no more than around 15 kids per class I think..

We can't afford international schools, though Rasami has been considered. But even that would break us when the 2nd child is old enough to attend

Does anyone know from personal experience a primary school that can match or exceed above requirements? Needs to be central Bangkok (say from Vibibadi-Rangsit in the east over to the river and central lad-prao area in the north and no farther south than the downtown core)

Thanks again if you have any advice

Yes

http://yamsaard.ac.th/EN/index1.html

My daughter is now in Year 5 of the bilingual section.

13 children in the room.

Science and English are taught by US teachers.

Maths by a Philippines girl (perfect English).

Half of the hours of the day are in English.

Vipavadee soi 20 (5 mn from Central Lardprao).

Cost is around 110 K THB.

You can contact me in private.

[think_too_mut]

My daughter is now in Year 5 of the bilingual section.

13 children in the room.

Science and English are taught by US teachers.

Maths by a Philippines girl (perfect English).

Half of the hours of the day are in English.

Vipavadee soi 20 (5 mn from Central Lardprao).

Cost is around 110 K THB.

I just don't know how it can work. Some classes in Thai, some in English.

What would be the kids good for if they have had science and maths in English and the rest in Thai?

No wonder one poster said there is a complimentary class to make sure they understand the subject. Does it make them competitive for Uni entrance tests at Thai Unis, or at all?

Ahh..when I called this topic on my screen, a "Gay in Thailand" banner appeared, a big, bold, adverisment.

You can imagine what my wife said.

Another thing, a poster with precisely 1 post called it back, as if there were no other, even pinned, threads.

[Xangsamhua]

There are different models, think_too_mut. At my school, about 55% of the time in class is in English as the medium of instruction, but that's over 13 years, from KG3 to M6. It varies from year to year, depending on circumstances, e.g. whether there are national or o-net tests that year.

The core subjects - Maths, Science and Social Studies are taught in both English and Thai. A Thai teacher introduces the content, key concepts, etc and then in a later period the English-medium (usually a foreign) teacher covers the same content in less depth with more focus on the English language of the topic. Students are assessed in both Thai and English. Non-core subjects - PE, Library, Music, etc may be taught in either Thai or English.

It doesn't work perfectly, but it seems to work quite well. Kids get very high scores on national and o-net tests for English and achieve a range of results from very good to about average in other subjects. All national tests other than English are in Thai. They are held in Years 3, 6, 9 and 12.

[think_too_mut]

It doesn't work perfectly, but it seems to work quite well. Kids get very high scores on national and o-net tests for English and achieve a range of results from very good to about average in other subjects. All national tests other than English are in Thai. They are held in Years 3, 6, 9 and 12.

How could that be then?

From the national test point of view, half time at bilingual school is effectively lost. All that English teaching does nothing, quite contrary, does harm that would show at (other than English) national tests.

The secret could be: extensive private tutoring after school. That eats up quite hard into kids' free time and childhood.

There IMO the trade off is: Thais would send their kids for private tutoring anyway, most likely English won't be overlooked.

So, rather than worrying who and how may be teaching their kids English, they leave that worry to bilingual schools and organize core teaching (much easier and cheaper) themselves. A Thai maths private tutor (could even be a student) would do it for 100B an hour or whatever, much cheaper than native English speaker (parents have no way to check the personality, background, skills, credentials).

So, at national tests both are happy: bilingual school show their results (without even acknowledging they come from or at least are helped by private tutoring), parents are happy with results and that they got their kids good English in a safe way and at a much lower price.

Edited May 19, 2009 by think_too_mut

[geovalin]

Another point which can be looked as positive or negative.

The atmosphere in the class is VERY different than the one in the "normal" classes.

It's a kind of western pocket in a Thai system. Only 13 in a big classroom: it allows the rooms to be decorated and comfortable, the kids can speak casually (some time too casually) to the westerner teachers, they can have a sort of private tuition due to small size of the group, relations are far more affective, they give their own opinion on any topic, etc. In terms of personal development it's unique.

My other daughter is in the same school but in the Thai system (because she was not able to write English at the end of Kindergarten): 39 children in the class. Knowing her, I'm sure she never opens the mouth.

Now, even in the Thai style, it's a good school and at the end the bilingual will not brig any benefit. Who knows?

Right now, I mention P 1-6. About M 1-6, we can consider to focus only on the learning in all the matters and leave English aside for a while.

[Xangsamhua]

It doesn't work perfectly, but it seems to work quite well. Kids get very high scores on national and o-net tests for English and achieve a range of results from very good to about average in other subjects. All national tests other than English are in Thai. They are held in Years 3, 6, 9 and 12.

How could that be then?

From the national test point of view, half time at bilingual school is effectively lost. All that English teaching does nothing, quite contrary, does harm that would show at (other than English) national tests.

The secret could be: extensive private tutoring after school. That eats up quite hard into kids' free time and childhood.

There IMO the trade off is: Thais would send their kids for private tutoring anyway, most likely English won't be overlooked.

So, rather than worrying who and how may be teaching their kids English, they leave that worry to bilingual schools and organize core teaching (much easier and cheaper) themselves. A Thai maths private tutor (could even be a student) would do it for 100B an hour or whatever, much cheaper than native English speaker (parents have no way to check the personality, background, skills, credentials).

So, at national tests both are happy: bilingual school show their results (without even acknowledging they come from or at least are helped by private tutoring), parents are happy with results and that they got their kids good English in a safe way and at a much lower price.

Many hypotheses here. (Maybe thinking_too_mut? ) I don't know what parents do with their kids after school. Our primary kids have after-school classes at school anyway, in a range of subjects, English and Thai, and finish at 5.00, so I doubt they're going off to tutoring.

It does sound like duplication to be teaching the same content twice; however, it's not just mirroring in a different language. With the English-medium teacher kids get another way of processing the material; they get the English language and the class runs differently - methods and classroom management are different.

Whatever happens, the results are on the board. The kids do very well in English in the national tests and are usually up to speed or beyond it (sometimes well beyond it in some subjects in some years) - and we have classes of 36. Experience confirms the international research that, over time, learning content in a second language does not impede learning and language development in the first language.

Still, it's up to parents. There are different options available at a range of prices and, in Bangkok, where so many different kinds of school are available, parents don't seem to mind switching kids at the end of Year 6 or Year 9 if they think a change is merited.

[think_too_mut]

Many hypotheses here. (Maybe thinking_too_mut? ) I don't know what parents do with their kids after school. Our primary kids have after-school classes at school anyway, in a range of subjects, English and Thai, and finish at 5.00, so I doubt they're going off to tutoring.

It does sound like duplication to be teaching the same content twice; however, it's not just mirroring in a different language. With the English-medium teacher kids get another way of processing the material; they get the English language and the class runs differently - methods and classroom management are different.

Whatever happens, the results are on the board. The kids do very well in English in the national tests and are usually up to speed or beyond it (sometimes well beyond it in some subjects in some years) - and we have classes of 36. Experience confirms the international research that, over time, learning content in a second language does not impede learning and language development in the first language.

You don't know what they do after school, so my guess is equally good then. It's not only a guess, it's a typical Asian thing. Japanese, Koreans, all do that to their kids. "Sleep 7 hours - you fail, sleep 6 hours - you pass" is the golden formula - all other time of a day is studying.

At my Uni, there was a professor of German as a second foreign language . He loved the heavilly criticised "natural method" and his opening class for new course takers was - reading Goethe's poetry in German. And always like that, every class.

Everybody hated him but he always had results handy showing the lowest rate of dropouts and generally better scores than other second foreign languages (Italian, French, Spanish) that were taught in different way.

Until someone reported that in German class a nearby language isnstitute 20 out of 25 students in the class - were his students, paying out of their pockets to learn German.

Still, it's up to parents. There are different options available at a range of prices and, in Bangkok, where so many different kinds of school are available, parents don't seem to mind switching kids at the end of Year 6 or Year 9 if they think a change is merited.

At first, sounds like if parents do not like 1 mil baht condo, they can move to a 10 mil one. So many condos at a range of prices.

If you meant - if they do not see the value they can move to a cheaper or free school - then yes, but it never goes easy on kids.

Edited May 20, 2009 by think_too_mut

[TruthWillOut]

What type of school do/did your kids go to think_too_much & how many of them have completed full time education for you to be such an expert?

Seems to me parents should do what they think is best for their kids for the money they have. No one elses place to critise or put down on their choices.

[think_too_mut]

What type of school do/did your kids go to think_too_much & how many of them have completed full time education for you to be such an expert?

Not very hard to be an expert among people like this.

[nanyang]

My other daughter is in the same school but in the Thai system (because she was not able to write English at the end of Kindergarten):

Excuse me but, how many kids can write anything at the end of kindergarten?

[nanyang]

The core subjects - Maths, Science and Social Studies are taught in both English and Thai.

Since when was Social Studies a core subject?

[nanyang]

[quote

Many hypotheses here. (Maybe thinking_too_mut? ) I don't know what parents do with their kids after school. Our primary kids have after-school classes at school anyway, in a range of subjects, English and Thai, and finish at 5.00, so I doubt they're going off to tutoring.

This recent link refers to U.K. teachers saying that homework for primary school children is a waste of time.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/primaryeducation/5125232/Homework-should-be-banned-in-primary-school-say-teachers.html

In Thailand, however, it is mandatory and will continue to be so as it is a money spinner for the schools.

This is ONE of the huge problems with the 'education' system in Thailand.

SOME of the other huge problems are:

Thai is spoken extensively in and out of the learning environment.

This leads to little, if any, reinforcement of the English language.

The no fail policy encourages laziness and poor motivation.

[think_too_mut]

My other daughter is in the same school but in the Thai system (because she was not able to write English at the end of Kindergarten):

Excuse me but, how many kids can write anything at the end of kindergarten?

That was my understanding too. But Thais who put their kids through private schools drive them pretty hard, just as Japanese or Koreans do.

When my daughter enrolled into Jindapong school at 3 years of age - she was the only child that could not read Thai (most others could also write). We had to pay for extra tution for her to catch up with other kids, she was dragging the class down.

One and a half year later, she was reading and writing both Thai and English (still, by rote).

When she enrolled into Int school in Japan (kindergarden, she has 1 more year before primary school) - she was the only child at 4.5 years who could sign up her name in the school bus. Other kids (mostly foreigners) at that age were not expected to read and write.

[think_too_mut]

This recent link refers to U.K. teachers saying that homework for primary school children is a waste of time.

In my daughters Int school, 12 kids in a class, 2 teachers per class, 8am-3pm, means no homework, ever, guaranteed.

Thai (inexpensive but still private) school in BKK was saddling her with at least 1 hour homework a day (at age of 3), always something to spoil weekends and holidays.

[TruthWillOut]

think_too_mut post Today, 2009-05-21 04:46:42

so that'd be a none then. haha

Shame you can't answer a simple question without resorting to pointless diversions.

[geovalin]

My other daughter is in the same school but in the Thai system (because she was not able to write English at the end of Kindergarten):

Excuse me but, how many kids can write anything at the end of kindergarten?

Sorry I meant read and write the letters / alphabet. Not to be able to write a 500 pages novel.

[rachels]

ok, i have 2 kids that are now going to lertlah school, before that they were in pac chong and by k3 both of them can do maths adding with 3 numbers easily, and write alot. In canada they have a bilingual system that has been adopted by lertlah and the feedback is great. Kids have the ability to understand many languages and its fact that they lern the most before the age of 5 years..

[nanyang]

by k3 both of them can do maths adding with 3 numbers easily

Presumably single digit numbers?

Kids have the ability to understand many languages

Before puberty is the ideal time for other language acquisition.

So far so good but, you then go on to say:

and its fact that they lern the most before the age of 5 years..

Pray tell me from where did you acquire this fact (sic).

At face value it's complete and utter nonsense but I'm sure you can justify it with a reference to some obscure statistical analysis carried out by a (another) group of free thinkers.