Changing to 17" Rims; What Size Tires?

[Thailaw]

A friend has a 2012 Camry with 16" wheels and 215/60 x 16 tires. He wants to change the wheels to 17" and change to lower profile tires. Toyota shows the "standard" 17' wheels come with 215/55 x 17 tires. Is that the best choice for tires for new 17" rims? Would 225/50 x 17 or 225/45 x 17 be better? Are there any problems in going to wider (from 215 to 225) tires? He and I have checked several sites, but no one provides any specific tire recommendations and the pluses and/or minuses of each choice. Also, are Yokohama tires any good? The car has Michelin tires on it now. Thanks for any help/thoughts.

[mafumo]

I have a 2012 Camry. Also looked into wider tyres. Went to lots of shops and all said they could not fit tyres any wider than 215 . I wanted 225's . Also tried to get 215/65 R16 and after all the hassle settled for 215/60 R16 Michelin Pilots . Found them to be way way better than the original Bridgstone Turanza's , a lot quieter and better ride .

[Thailaw]

I have a 2012 Camry. Also looked into wider tyres. Went to lots of shops and all said they could not fit tyres any wider than 215 . I wanted 225's . Also tried to get 215/65 R16 and after all the hassle settled for 215/60 R16 Michelin Pilots . Found them to be way way better than the original Bridgstone Turanza's , a lot quieter and better ride .

You may be right; 225 wide tires may not be an option, but I expect that with 17" rims it is. Why did you want to go to 225 wide tires? He can check on the ability to put 225 tires on 17" rims. I don't think he wants the car to sit any lower to the ground than it does now, so 55 or 50 profile tires may be his best/only options. So, that still leaves 4 options -- 225/55; 225/50; 215/55 and 225/50. I expect that all equal and assuming that they can be fitted on 17" rims, he would go with the 225/50's, But another size may be a better choice. Here's a quote from the 2006 V6 Accord sedan comparison test I found on the internet: "This Accord gets the same 17-inch wheels as the Accord coupe, but all the V-6 Accords get new 17-inchers, wearing rather wimpy 215/50 Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 all-season tires", suggesting I think that 225/50 tires would have been a better choice. Thoughts?

Edited November 4, 2014 by Thailaw

[culicine]

225 can fit an accord. I'm not sure about the camry. Maybe there will be rubbing issues but it seems unlikely. I looked at the 225 for my civic, on 17 inch wheels. They are much bigger than the 215 - wider and taller. My car is lowered so they suggested using the 215 (which I had always used), as 225 may rub on turns at the front.

[Thailaw]

225 can fit an accord. I'm not sure about the camry. Maybe there will be rubbing issues but it seems unlikely. I looked at the 225 for my civic, on 17 inch wheels. They are much bigger than the 215 - wider and taller. My car is lowered so they suggested using the 215 (which I had always used), as 225 may rub on turns at the front.

The car has not been lowered or modified in any way. It sounds like 225's are preferred if they will fit. They are certainly wider than the 215's, no question about that, but you can choose the profile, from 45 to 60. I worry that the 45's might lower the car and cause bottom scraping and the ride may be overly stiff. I'm thinking that 50 or 55, 215 or 225 are likely the safest bets, but among them, I am really not sure.

[Ace of Pop]

Apart from it looking nicer to a few, the only thing gained is a lighter wallet. Just done a 500Clic run in one,most enjoyable easy Cruzin Car. .

[culicine]

225 can fit an accord. I'm not sure about the camry. Maybe there will be rubbing issues but it seems unlikely. I looked at the 225 for my civic, on 17 inch wheels. They are much bigger than the 215 - wider and taller. My car is lowered so they suggested using the 215 (which I had always used), as 225 may rub on turns at the front.

The car has not been lowered or modified in any way. It sounds like 225's are preferred if they will fit. They are certainly wider than the 215's, no question about that, but you can choose the profile, from 45 to 60. I worry that the 45's might lower the car and cause bottom scraping and the ride may be overly stiff. I'm thinking that 50 or 55, 215 or 225 are likely the safest bets, but among them, I am really not sure.

If you keep the overall same diameter (or close) and still on 17" the ride quality should be very similar. I guess then its up to the brand of tire to contribute to ride comfort. Some are softer and have softer sidewalls so they ride better. I have michelin PS3 and they are quite good, not too soft. I think I've used quieter softer tires before though, like dunlop veuro's. They were quite soft. Ask the dealer about what is best for comfort, if that is what you are after.

[Thailaw]

Apart from it looking nicer to a few, the only thing gained is a lighter wallet. Just done a 500Clic run in one,most enjoyable easy Cruzin Car. .

I think that you are referring to a new Accord for your 500 klik run, no?

I think that you are very right, the major difference in going to 17" rims and narrower profile ties is, as you say, a "nicer look". I doubt that the ride/performance with 215/60 x 16 tires will be noticeably different than with 225/50 x 17 tires. I think that the 225/45 x 17 tyres would look really great, but I expect that road clearance would be a problem and the ride would be very (probably too) hard/rough. So, still back to 225 vs 215 and 55 vs 50. Same, same??

[Thailaw]

If you keep the overall same diameter (or close) and still on 17" the ride quality should be very similar. I guess then its up to the brand of tire to contribute to ride comfort. Some are softer and have softer sidewalls so they ride better. I have michelin PS3 and they are quite good, not too soft. I think I've used quieter softer tires before though, like dunlop veuro's. They were quite soft. Ask the dealer about what is best for comfort, if that is what you are after.

The lower profile tires have harder and firmer walls that cause a harder ride. They look a lot better, but you pay for it in ride comfort. Tire brands cold also have some effect, probably do.

I am sure that he can't go wrong with 215/55 x 17 tires, as those are the standard Toyota Camry tires with 17" rims. But, I think that 225/50 x 17 tires might look better, provide better traction on wet roads and have just about the same ride. I think that he is down to Michelin or Yokohama, but not sure if there are other options that he is considering.

[Ace of Pop]

Smaller Tyre width gives better traction in the wet and reduces aquaplane.

[Thailaw]

Smaller Tyre width gives better traction in the wet and reduces aquaplane.

You are certainly correct about narrower tires reducing the probability of hydroplaning. But, I think that in general wider tires provide better performance for braking in wet conditions, and improved wet driving traction in the absence of conditions that would cause hydroplaning. Equally important, I think, is tread design that allows/encourages water to move quickly out of the tire footprint. Perhaps it is difficult (or not possible) to say whether narrow or wider tires are generally better in wet driving conditions.

[Ace of Pop]

Admittedly i was thinking wet loose tracks round here, where i like skinny wheels.

[BSJ]

You need to consider the wheel offset if your changing to 225 size. The best way to know if you have room is get it up on a hoist and turn the steering each way and measure how much space is on each side of the existing tyre. Then get the new wheels with the correct offset.

[culicine]

Smaller Tyre width gives better traction in the wet and reduces aquaplane.

You are certainly correct about narrower tires reducing the probability of hydroplaning. But, I think that in general wider tires provide better performance for braking in wet conditions, and improved wet driving traction in the absence of conditions that would cause hydroplaning. Equally important, I think, is tread design that allows/encourages water to move quickly out of the tire footprint. Perhaps it is difficult (or not possible) to say whether narrow or wider tires are generally better in wet driving conditions.

My dad had some 265's on the back of a ford fairlane. They were horrendous in the wet when the tread wore down. You need lots of tread in the wet here. I notice a difference when down to about 50% tread in the wet. The michelin PS3 are great in the wet - on my car, so far.

[Thailaw]

You need to consider the wheel offset if your changing to 225 size. The best way to know if you have room is get it up on a hoist and turn the steering each way and measure how much space is on each side of the existing tyre. Then get the new wheels with the correct offset.

Wheel offset.JPG

Very interesting, thanks. This is far more complicated that I realized. Only problem is that I think he already has purchased the rims and was just deciding on tires. So, the tires will need to fit on the rims he has already purchased, which may now limit him to 215s.

[Sayonarax]

why would you have 225s all round?

[Thailaw]

why would you have 225s all round?

I think that you are suggesting 225s in the rear and 215s in the front. Interesting idea, and one that I had not thought of. I always put the same tires all the way around. But this may give better performance and handling and solve some of the possible issues with wider tires. I'll mention it to the Camry owner. Thanks.

Is anyone running 215/45 or 225/45 tires on a 4 door sedan. like a Camry? Ride comfort ok? By my calculations, going from 215/60 x 16 to 215/45 x 17, the wheel and tire radius and road clearance is reduced by 0.27 inch. That seems ok, agree?

[steve187]

in my reckoning 215/60 x16 makes a total diameter of the wheel and tyre to be 663mm

and 215/45x17 is 624mm

making a ride height decrease of 20mm or 3/4 inch

where 215/50 x 17 makes a total diameter of the wheel and tyre to be 645mm would give you a height decrease of 9mm

215/55 x17 makes a total diameter of the wheel and tyre to be 663 giving you the same height ride as before

and 225/50 x17 makes a total diameter of the wheel and tyre to be 655mm would be 4mm

i think 215/45 would give you a bumpy ride and pot holes would be a nightmare

[Ace of Pop]

Watch when You have new tires fitted they put the Colored Spot opposite the Valve. They dont seem to know why here.

[Thailaw]

in my reckoning 215/60 x16 makes a total diameter of the wheel and tyre to be 663mm

and 215/45x17 is 624mm

making a ride height decrease of 20mm or 3/4 inch

where 215/50 x 17 makes a total diameter of the wheel and tyre to be 645mm would give you a height decrease of 9mm

215/55 x17 makes a total diameter of the wheel and tyre to be 663 giving you the same height ride as before

and 225/50 x17 makes a total diameter of the wheel and tyre to be 655mm would be 4mm

i think 215/45 would give you a bumpy ride and pot holes would be a nightmare

You are right, and my math was incorrect. The tire side wall height on the 215/60 x 16 is 5.08" and on the 215/45 x 17 the tire wall height is 3.81", so the side wall height is 1.27" less on the 45 than on the 60. But the wheel is going from 16" to 17", so I netted the 1" wheel size increase against the 1.27 tire side wall height decrease, which was wrong. Only 0.5" of the rim size increase applies. On Tire Size Conversion, it shows the diameter of the 215/45 x 17 to be 24.6" and the diameter of the 215/60 X 16 to be 26.2", and a difference of .8" in wheel height, as you correctly stated. Only half of the 1" wheel increase offsets the tire side wall reduction, so it is 8" + 5.08" = 13.08" vs. 8.5" + 3.81" = 12.31", with a difference of 0.77". Thanks for pointing our my error. And I agree that a drop in height of 3/4 of an inch is too much. 50 or 55 is it.

[Thailaw]

Watch when You have new tires fitted they put the Colored Spot opposite the Valve. They dont seem to know why here.

Are you suggesting that they do it and don't know why or that they just don't worry about the location of the spot on the tire vis-a-vis the valve?

I thought that the yellow spot on the tire was to designate the lightest (heaviest?) point on the tire which is to be aligned (matched) with the valve, which is at the heaviest (lightest?) point on the rim (there may also be a red spot, but that is different and relates to high and low points). Matching the yellow dot and the valve helps to offset differences in the combined tire and rim weights and reduces the balancing weight required. Very minor point, but If they are putting the yellow spot and the valve on opposite sides, they are making the weight imbalance slightly worse, so better if they forget doing that.

But, proper balancing of the tire and rim once mounted should solve the problem in any event, no?

[Don Mega]

http://www.yokohamatire.com/tires_101/tire_care_and_safety/match_mounting/

Observe match-mounting procedures


Proper tire and wheel assembly balancing is important from a vehicle safety standpoint. In high-speed driving, improperly balanced tire/wheel assemblies will cause a vehicle to lose stability and not operate in a safe and comfortable manner. Improperly balanced tire/wheel assemblies also cause abnormal treadwear patterns.

To facilitate proper balancing, Yokohama places red and yellow marks on the sidewalls of its tires to enable the best possible match-mounting of the tire/wheel assembly. There are two methods of match-mounting Yokohama tires to wheel assemblies using these red or yellow marks:

Uniformity (red mark)
Weight (yellow mark)

Uniformity Method

When performing uniformity match-mounting, the red mark on the tire, indicating the point of maximum radial force variation, should be aligned with the wheel assembly's point of minimum radial run-out, which is generally indicated by a colored dot or a notch somewhere on the wheel assembly (consult manufacturer for details). Radial force variation is the fluctuation in the force that appears in the rotating axis of a tire when a specific load is applied and the tire rotated at a specific speed. It is necessary to minimize radial force variation to ensure trouble-free installation and operation. Not all wheel assemblies indicate the point of minimum radial run-out, rendering uniformity match-mounting sometimes impossible. If the point of minimum radial run-out is not indicated on a wheel assembly, the weight method of match-mounting should be used instead.

Weight Method

When performing weight match-mounting, the yellow mark on the tire, indicating the point of lightest weight, should be aligned with the valve stem on the wheel assembly, which represents the heaviest weight point of the wheel assembly. After match-mounting by either of the above methods, the tire/wheel assembly can be balanced.

[seedy]

What you suggested in the OP - and Toyota agreed - is commonly called a Plus 1 upgrade. Larger diameter rim but shorter aspect ratio sidewall.

Why Toyota does this is to keep the diameter the same, so VSS sensor reads correctly.

Try Tire Rack dot com as they have a great site to allow you to change the rim style, tire type, etc and see how your ride will look with the various changes.

Be aware that a shorter sidewall will ride more firmly than a taller one - less room for the tire to deflect to absorb bumps. Hit a big enuf one and the rim will contact - bye bye rim.

[meatboy]

make sure you inform your insurance co.my b.i.l.done the same and had an accident which damaged one of the front wheels,the ins.wouldnt cover it,he hadnt informed them of the change.

[Thailaw]

What you suggested in the OP - and Toyota agreed - is commonly called a Plus 1 upgrade. Larger diameter rim but shorter aspect ratio sidewall.

Why Toyota does this is to keep the diameter the same, so VSS sensor reads correctly.

Try Tire Rack dot com as they have a great site to allow you to change the rim style, tire type, etc and see how your ride will look with the various changes.

Be aware that a shorter sidewall will ride more firmly than a taller one - less room for the tire to deflect to absorb bumps. Hit a big enuf one and the rim will contact - bye bye rim.

Thanks, great post! Will definitely check out Tire Rack. 45s have been ruled out, but 50 or 55s are sill options, I think. 55 x 17 would leave the wheel diameter unchanged and is a Toyota option. And you are right, the move from 55 to 50s is purely appearance and would result in a wheel radius decrease of 9mm, about 1/3".

What about 225s all around (assuming that they will fit) or 225s in the rear and 215s in the front?

[culicine]

What you suggested in the OP - and Toyota agreed - is commonly called a Plus 1 upgrade. Larger diameter rim but shorter aspect ratio sidewall.

Why Toyota does this is to keep the diameter the same, so VSS sensor reads correctly.

Try Tire Rack dot com as they have a great site to allow you to change the rim style, tire type, etc and see how your ride will look with the various changes.

Be aware that a shorter sidewall will ride more firmly than a taller one - less room for the tire to deflect to absorb bumps. Hit a big enuf one and the rim will contact - bye bye rim.

Thanks, great post! Will definitely check out Tire Rack. 45s have been ruled out, but 50 or 55s are sill options, I think. 55 x 17 would leave the wheel diameter unchanged and is a Toyota option. And you are right, the move from 55 to 50s is purely appearance and would result in a wheel radius decrease of 9mm, about 1/3".

What about 225s all around (assuming that they will fit) or 225s in the rear and 215s in the front?

Remember you will get less life out of the tires if the front and rear are different widths as you can't (or shouldn't) move the 225's to the front when you get to 10K kms. The front's will wear quicker, so it's best to rotate. If me, I'd get the same width front and back. 225 should be no problem for a camry front and back.

[Ace of Pop]

Where is Tire Rack located in Thailand.?

[seedy]

Where is Tire Rack located in Thailand.?

Strictly used as mentioned to explore different rims and tires - and see them as they are displayed on your ride.

Find a rim you like - take pic to LOS shop and get as close as you can to the look you want.

You will also have the correct offset as I believe Tire Rack will warn you if the offset will not clear, but you still have to check.

I use a piece of angle iron and a threaded rod - checks body and suspension clearance before you go. Then you know exactly what will fit - and what won't.