I didn't know... (Thailand's trade in dog meat)

[AyG]

I'm a great fan of Judi Dench. This is probably the only one of her works I don't want to see again.

Sign the petition at http://savedogs.soidog.org/petition

[ktm jeff]

If selfish people allow "their" dogs ( stray / wild soi dogs) to rampage loose causing accidents with cars and bikes , not to mention attacking people ,it is only right to round these dangers up , and disposed of . The fact that people are starving and will be glad of the meat may be wrong to some , but have you ever been in such a desperate situation where you are starving ?. A little like the dogs are , and would be more so , if their numbers werent thinned out.You and many others may reguard them as pets , as some people keep rats as pets , but to others its their only source of affordable meat source. I dont wish to offend anybody , and your opinion is just as valied as mine BUT the true facts have been ignored here. Ive read the reports of 500,000 dogs being exported , and i dont honestly know if these are true , but if so , the numbers , in my experience of seeing how many wild dogs there are roaming loose , need to be increased by 50%. The problem is theres very little money in this service (and i use the word service after carefull thought) , which makes the report of the animals being used in £30 (1,500 Baht) currys all the more unbelievable , along with many more of the reportse "facts". Dogs give may people much joy , i like them too , BUT , responsibilty and care must be taken of them.I have no doubht many do look after them well , including yourself , but as the figures suggest , 500,000 people dont. Thats the source of the initial problem , and the severe food shortage for many in other countries. This is my opinion based on the facts i know about .

[Suradit69]

The fact that people are starving and will be glad of the meat may be wrong to some ...

i doubt many of the people who eat dog meat are starving.

I do agree that much of the problem is caused by irresponsible dog owners who buy cute puppies and then abandon them when they become too much bother or make little effort to look after them or do anything to curtail their uncontrolled breeding, but many of the dogs running about on the street are in no fit condition for human consumption nor do they represent a solution to human hunger. Connecting the problems of human malnutrition to the problem of abandoned and feral dogs is somewhat ludicrous.

Thousands upon thousands of perfectly healthy dogs are put to death each year in the west because of the same irresponsible behavior of breeders and owners, very few of those dogs would be used for human consumption, even though the number of people going hungry in the west is appalling.

I don't like the idea of dogs being eaten or sharks having their fins cut off for food, after which they are tossed back in the ocean to die a horrible death or elephants being slaughtered for ivory, etc., but if dogs are going to be eaten they should be humanely treated during their lives, just as I would expect pigs, cattle and chickens to be treated humanely while they are living and when they are killed for human consumption it should not be a tortuous end where they are tied in painful positions, deprived of food & water and piled upon one another in suffocating conditions for days on end while being transported. Punishing them because people have left them to fend for themselves on the streets where they are often abused is totally illogical.

If dogs are going to be used for meat that doesn't justify them living a desperate, horrible life nor does it mean they should face a brutal, cruel death. And those that are diseased and parasite ridden should not become food for anyone.

[ktm jeff]

Suradit69 , i agree with you completly on the terrible transport conditions. The killing also needs to be done as humanely as possible , but the poor profit margins will / may be used as an excuse - will an official standard help here ?.Would it help if this trade is registered and controled. Some people would still say its wrong , and in several asspects i would agree.What i meant in my line you quoted , but may not have put it over very well , was that if your hungry , call it starving or malnutrition , due to the poor earning rates being even lower in some countries , including Viethnam , than Thailand, many people may simply not be able to afford any other meat. The dogs are abandoned by selfish people yes , not the dogs fault. If they are to be rounded up (which i agree with) i think , my opinion , their meat should be put to use by feeding those who cannot afford anything else.

[meatboy]

If selfish people allow "their" dogs ( stray / wild soi dogs) to rampage loose causing accidents with cars and bikes , not to mention attacking people ,it is only right to round these dangers up , and disposed of . The fact that people are starving and will be glad of the meat may be wrong to some , but have you ever been in such a desperate situation where you are starving ?. A little like the dogs are , and would be more so , if their numbers werent thinned out.You and many others may reguard them as pets , as some people keep rats as pets , but to others its their only source of affordable meat source. I dont wish to offend anybody , and your opinion is just as valied as mine BUT the true facts have been ignored here. Ive read the reports of 500,000 dogs being exported , and i dont honestly know if these are true , but if so , the numbers , in my experience of seeing how many wild dogs there are roaming loose , need to be increased by 50%. The problem is theres very little money in this service (and i use the word service after carefull thought) , which makes the report of the animals being used in £30 (1,500 Baht) currys all the more unbelievable , along with many more of the reportse "facts". Dogs give may people much joy , i like them too , BUT , responsibilty and care must be taken of them.I have no doubht many do look after them well , including yourself , but as the figures suggest , 500,000 people dont. Thats the source of the initial problem , and the severe food shortage for many in other countries. This is my opinion based on the facts i know about .

the main fact that you IGNORED is the way they are KILLED and that is A FACT.

[AyG]

If selfish people allow "their" dogs ( stray / wild soi dogs) to rampage loose causing accidents with cars and bikes , not to mention attacking people ,it is only right to round these dangers up , and disposed of . The fact that people are starving and will be glad of the meat may be wrong to some , but have you ever been in such a desperate situation where you are starving ?. A little like the dogs are , and would be more so , if their numbers werent thinned out.You and many others may reguard them as pets , as some people keep rats as pets , but to others its their only source of affordable meat source. I dont wish to offend anybody , and your opinion is just as valied as mine BUT the true facts have been ignored here. Ive read the reports of 500,000 dogs being exported , and i dont honestly know if these are true , but if so , the numbers , in my experience of seeing how many wild dogs there are roaming loose , need to be increased by 50%. The problem is theres very little money in this service (and i use the word service after carefull thought) , which makes the report of the animals being used in £30 (1,500 Baht) currys all the more unbelievable , along with many more of the reportse "facts". Dogs give may people much joy , i like them too , BUT , responsibilty and care must be taken of them.I have no doubht many do look after them well , including yourself , but as the figures suggest , 500,000 people dont. Thats the source of the initial problem , and the severe food shortage for many in other countries. This is my opinion based on the facts i know about .

Dog meat is a luxury product in Vietnam. It's not going to starving people. In fact, it's mostly eaten in specialised restaurants in dishes designed to improve male "performance".

Most of the dogs which are trafficked to Vietnam are actually people's pets which have been snatched from the streets or stolen from people's yards - not feral soi dogs. No doubt they're more attractive because they're plumper and in better health.

Thailand does have a street dog problem, and unfortunately government programmes to limit the numbers are pretty ineffective. A proper dog licensing scheme with chipping of all dogs with harsh penalties for dumping your dog plus a programme of sterilising all street dogs would pretty much eliminate the problem in a few years.

Indeed, for me the main issue here isn't that people are eating dog, it's the dreadful - and totally unnecessary - cruelty with which the dogs are treated.

[meatboy]

If selfish people allow "their" dogs ( stray / wild soi dogs) to rampage loose causing accidents with cars and bikes , not to mention attacking people ,it is only right to round these dangers up , and disposed of . The fact that people are starving and will be glad of the meat may be wrong to some , but have you ever been in such a desperate situation where you are starving ?. A little like the dogs are , and would be more so , if their numbers werent thinned out.You and many others may reguard them as pets , as some people keep rats as pets , but to others its their only source of affordable meat source. I dont wish to offend anybody , and your opinion is just as valied as mine BUT the true facts have been ignored here. Ive read the reports of 500,000 dogs being exported , and i dont honestly know if these are true , but if so , the numbers , in my experience of seeing how many wild dogs there are roaming loose , need to be increased by 50%. The problem is theres very little money in this service (and i use the word service after carefull thought) , which makes the report of the animals being used in £30 (1,500 Baht) currys all the more unbelievable , along with many more of the reportse "facts". Dogs give may people much joy , i like them too , BUT , responsibilty and care must be taken of them.I have no doubht many do look after them well , including yourself , but as the figures suggest , 500,000 people dont. Thats the source of the initial problem , and the severe food shortage for many in other countries. This is my opinion based on the facts i know about .

Dog meat is a luxury product in Vietnam. It's not going to starving people. In fact, it's mostly eaten in specialised restaurants in dishes designed to improve male "performance".

Most of the dogs which are trafficked to Vietnam are actually people's pets which have been snatched from the streets or stolen from people's yards - not feral soi dogs. No doubt they're more attractive because they're plumper and in better health.

Thailand does have a street dog problem, and unfortunately government programmes to limit the numbers are pretty ineffective. A proper dog licensing scheme with chipping of all dogs with harsh penalties for dumping your dog plus a programme of sterilising all street dogs would pretty much eliminate the problem in a few years.

Indeed, for me the main issue here isn't that people are eating dog, it's the dreadful - and totally unnecessary - cruelty with which the dogs are treated.

yes ayg a proper dog licensing scheme with chipping and harsh penalties for irasponsible owners,but that would cost a few hundred bht.so how would they be able to but that tin of car wax.

[isanbirder]

Nothing to do with poverty..... dog meat is a luxury, in Thailand, in Hong Kong (and, I suppose, at least neighbouring parts of China), and probably in Vietnam (I wouldn't know).

Chinese tradition says that, if you beat the dog to death so that the blood rises to the surface, the meat is more tasty. I suspect that the Vietnamese have similar ideas.

One, when I was Vice-President of the RSPCA in Hong Kong, I said publicly that I would not object to people eating dogmeat "if the animals were bred for the pot, and killed humanely." You should have heard the outcry (I still have a copy of a newspaper cartoon of me with knife and fork chasing a cute little dog).

Of course my point was that neither of these things is ever going to happen.

[ktm jeff]

meatboy , hi.I did mention in my second post (posted after yours) my concern on the transport conditions , and the inhumane kill , in my first line. Indeed they are facts , that need addressing. You are , im afraid , correct in your assumption that animal "chips" will not be bought by the selfish owners. AyG , i too have heard the potency story , and this belief is true of other animals such as bears. Education is needed here but old beliefs and superstitions run deep. Your last line on post 6 sums it up for me. isanbirder , boy , what can i say. You were very brave to give such an opinion on the consumption of dog meat to such a group (and i agree with the "bred for the pot" idea) , and you faced a backlash i was half expecting to face myself when i first posted. May i say that this is a delicate subject involving some loved animals , and that we may never all be happy with any outcome , but despite the sensitive issue , people have been polite and gave thought to their replies and some very valid concerns and possible answers and solutions have been put forward.

[meatboy]

meatboy , hi.I did mention in my second post (posted after yours) my concern on the transport conditions , and the inhumane kill , in my first line. Indeed they are facts , that need addressing. You are , im afraid , correct in your assumption that animal "chips" will not be bought by the selfish owners. AyG , i too have heard the potency story , and this belief is true of other animals such as bears. Education is needed here but old beliefs and superstitions run deep. Your last line on post 6 sums it up for me. isanbirder , boy , what can i say. You were very brave to give such an opinion on the consumption of dog meat to such a group (and i agree with the "bred for the pot" idea) , and you faced a backlash i was half expecting to face myself when i first posted. May i say that this is a delicate subject involving some loved animals , and that we may never all be happy with any outcome , but despite the sensitive issue , people have been polite and gave thought to their replies and some very valid concerns and possible answers and solutions have been put forward.

thanks ktm. in over 30yrs.i have never seen anything done regarding strays[lets call them that] although most of them had owners and yes the ones that are stolen aswell.it is one big problem that has never been adressed by any governing party.

if it wasnt for the likes of soi dog foundation and others who i am afraid are fighting a loseing battle,as the count gets bigger

when we hear the excuse,we cant put then as we are BUDDHISTS.that gets my goat.

yet its ok.for them to kill human beings on a daily basis.

what suffering they must go through we cant imagine,yet lets not forget dogs are intelligent and sense danger.

myself i dont like to read about it and try to avoid talking about it but sometimes you have to.

dog lover.meatboy.

[isanbirder]

I assume that all the people on this subforum are dog-lovers, but this does not apply to those who eat dogmeat.

Therefore we cannot use the "dear little doggie" approach. The main lines of attack must be public health and cruelty.

BTW, meatboy, pigs are intelligent too...... but our Buddhist neighbours have no scruples about killing and eating them. I actually know two professional pig slaughtermen, very nice people! It is hypocritical to say they will not kill a dog to put it out of its misery.

[Keesters]

If selfish people allow "their" dogs ( stray / wild soi dogs) to rampage loose causing accidents with cars and bikes , not to mention attacking people ,it is only right to round these dangers up , and disposed of . The fact that people are starving and will be glad of the meat may be wrong to some , but have you ever been in such a desperate situation where you are starving ?. A little like the dogs are , and would be more so , if their numbers werent thinned out.You and many others may reguard them as pets , as some people keep rats as pets , but to others its their only source of affordable meat source. I dont wish to offend anybody , and your opinion is just as valied as mine BUT the true facts have been ignored here. Ive read the reports of 500,000 dogs being exported , and i dont honestly know if these are true , but if so , the numbers , in my experience of seeing how many wild dogs there are roaming loose , need to be increased by 50%. The problem is theres very little money in this service (and i use the word service after carefull thought) , which makes the report of the animals being used in £30 (1,500 Baht) currys all the more unbelievable , along with many more of the reportse "facts". Dogs give may people much joy , i like them too , BUT , responsibilty and care must be taken of them.I have no doubht many do look after them well , including yourself , but as the figures suggest , 500,000 people dont. Thats the source of the initial problem , and the severe food shortage for many in other countries. This is my opinion based on the facts i know about .

Most of the dogs which are trafficked to Vietnam are actually people's pets which have been snatched from the streets or stolen from people's yards - not feral soi dogs.

Any dog that can be snatched from the street is not a pet. It is an unloved runaway and the owner deserves to lose their dog as they do not take proper care of it.

[AyG]

Any dog that can be snatched from the street is not a pet. It is an unloved runaway and the owner deserves to lose their dog as they do not take proper care of it.

(1) In rural area in the north east it's perfectly normal for dogs to roam freely around the village. That doesn't make the dog "an unloved runaway".

(2) Whilst you may believe that "the owner deserves to lose their dog", the dog doesn't deserve to be treated inhumanely and ultimately be killed, even if, in your opinion "they do not take proper care of it".

[Keesters]

Any dog that can be snatched from the street is not a pet. It is an unloved runaway and the owner deserves to lose their dog as they do not take proper care of it.

(1) In rural area in the north east it's perfectly normal for dogs to roam freely around the village. That doesn't make the dog "an unloved runaway".

(2) Whilst you may believe that "the owner deserves to lose their dog", the dog doesn't deserve to be treated inhumanely and ultimately be killed, even if, in your opinion "they do not take proper care of it".

And when it is well known that dogs may be snatched owners continue to allow their "pet" freedom to roam and be at the mercy of the dog snatchers rather than take PROPER care of it.

Never made any mention of how I feel about the dog so please refrain from such unprovoked comments.

In Thailand most owners of dogs are very irresponsible.