Apec agrees on new trade area, but not US deal

[webfact]

Apec agrees on new trade area, but not US deal
The Nation, Agencies
Beijing

BANGKOK: -- CHINA HAS gained support for its version of a regional free-trade arrangement as leaders to the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation (Apec) agreed to create a new free-trade area "as early as possible." The US-sponsored Trans Pacific Partnership, however, failed to set a timeframe.

In a drafted joint statement, leaders of 21 economies reaffirmed commitment to the Chinese-backed Free Trade Area of the Asia-Pacific for further regional economic integration.

Meanwhile, US President Barack Obama has called for a deal to be reached "as soon as possible" on a proposed free-trade agreement, which has added to China-US discord, at a regional summit in Beijing.

Obama and leaders from 11 other Pacific Rim countries including Japan, Canada, Australia and Mexico instructed negotiators to build on "significant progress" and push toward a conclusion of difficult talks on the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) free-trade idea.

"With the end coming into focus, we have instructed our ministers and negotiators to make concluding this agreement a top priority ... to reap the real and substantial benefits of the TPP agreement as soon as possible," a statement said.

The TPP countries met on the sidelines of the Apec summit in Beijing.

Washington has for years pushed for the TTP, which proposes a loosening of trade restrictions, but notably excludes China, the world's second-largest economy. However, the talks have become bogged down amid resistance from some prospective members wary of opening up domestic markets, notably Japan.

A US official who spoke on condition of anonymity said: "This is not an agreement which is about to get signed. This will take a period of time to finish off some of the difficult issues."

China wanted the 21-member Apec meeting to endorse a stronger commitment to the Free Trade Area of the Asia-Pacific idea, a longer-term concept for the entire region that would build on the TPP and other free-trade initiatives.

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha attended the Apec summit and delivered a statement endorsing regional economic integration, particularly establishment of a FTAAP. He emphasised reduction of disparity in sustainable growth, further development in food and energy security, and attempted to boost confidence in Thailand in order for the country to commit to global responsibility.

Prayut did not make clear his stance on the TPP although Thailand was persuaded to join the scheme with many Asean members. Prayut yesterday met bilaterally with the Philippines' President Aquino, and Papua New Guinea Prime Minister Peter O'Neill.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Apec-agrees-on-new-trade-area-but-not-US-deal-30247470.html


-- The Nation 2014-11-11

[RustBucket]

The US getting the cold shoulder?

[retarius]

Well done in rejecting TTP.....the EU have a similar treaty in the works....a disaster for a nation's sovereignty as local will be unable to sue US corporations in courts, however egregious their behaviour

[taony]

I'm all for anything that derails the TTP.

[sgtsabai]

There are actually 3 so-called free trade deals being negotiated in super secret without even the US Congress seeing the drafts, hence the push for "fast-track" where the US Congress will not even see or read the "agreements". What few drafts that have been leaked, thank you Wikileaks, read like a corporate take over of the world. They are all being done by multi-national corporations, by and for multi-national corporations with the push and support of the Obama (obushma) administration. Only the corporations and their owners will benefit, the people, medicine, internet, environment etc. will suffer. NAFTA on multi steroids and a disaster. I'm sure any so-called trade agreement with China will be much the same except it will be the Chinese government/businesses that benefit. You can bet the people won't.

[rickirs]

President Obama hardly has the full backing of his own Democractic party for the TTP much less any enthusiastic support from the Republican party that will control Congress in 2015. As a prelude to the 2016 Presidential elections the Republicans, who usually can be relied upon to support international free-trade agreements, will be hesitant to give President Obama any political victories - especially should he start to circumvent Congress with presidential directives on hot issues like immigration. So it comes as no surprise that Apec is ambivalent at best with Obama's TTP.

[Krataiboy]

The US is facing several harsh realities. Its economic empire is shrinking, the dollar is dying and the giant corporations which have traditionally propelled US presidents and politicians into power and dominated world markets face an increasingly severe mauling from China and the Asian tigers - ravenous beasts which already have their jaws locked around 55 per cent of world trade and still look hungry.

Hence the roll-out of so-called free trade initiatives, such as the TPP, designed to claw back lost ground for the Uncle Sam's beleaguered super-corporations and guarantee an ongoing edge over any opposition. In effect, these clandestine deals, drawn up and negotiated largely behind closed doors and with little public scrutiny, are Trojan horses, cynically constructed to rob sovereign governments of the right to control undesirable activities by commercial cuckoos in their midst.

For example, one clause of the much-maligned TPP entitles an immigrant company which considers itself unfairly treated by the regulators of a host nation to sue for damages, in respect of "notional" lost profits, in an international court of corporate lawyers set up specifically for the purpose. In some instances the sum demanded could amount to more than an entire nation's GDP - and act as a considerable deterrent to would-be indigenous regulators.

Despite President Obama throwing his considerable personal weight behind TPP - along with other similar free trade-damaging deals earmarked for implementation across other continents - the initiative has been widely condemned as blatant protectionism and met strong resistance from countries across Asia, including Thailand.

Assuming the TPP proves a dead duck, the same nations it sought to suborn now face a no less daunting task - that of ensuring that the alternative Apec agreement being negotiated with China is not another poisoned chalice offered by different hand. An continuing challenge for the Kingdom will be to welcome beneficial initiatives from both the Chinese and Americans while maintaining its own political and economic independence.

This will be no easy juggling act. Fortunately, Thai leaders have historically demonstrated considerable diplomatic agility when it comes to looking after their own - both internationally and on the domestic front - and the Kingdom is unlikely to be found wanting as the fading superpower and its rising star rival come a-courting.

[than]

Trade with US are always in one way

[Ulic]

Many so called free trade agreements a simply trade agreements. Even NAFTA with free trade in the name if far

from free trade. Canada wants to protect culture (publishing industry), milk, and egg marketing boards etc, the US

wants to protect farm subsidies, lumber industry, etc.. in other words both sides want to protect there industries

that are not that competitive, while opening up markets for themselves. The only true free trade agreements I am aware

of are between Australia and New Zealand and the formation of the European Union. Everything else is just a trade

agreement with give and take on both/all sides. Many of you know far more than I do but so far that is how I understand

these trade agreements. Of course it is big multinational companies that shape these agreements so it tends to be

there connections with conservative governments, Republicans in the US and Conservatives in Canada from which they

get what they want the most from.

[Nickymaster]

Trade with US are always in one way

That's why you call it trade.

[wandasloan]

The US is facing several harsh realities. Its economic empire is shrinking, the dollar is dying and the giant corporations which have traditionally propelled US presidents and politicians into power and dominated world markets face an increasingly severe mauling from China and the Asian tigers - ravenous beasts which already have their jaws locked around 55 per cent of world trade and still look hungry.

My, you do make it difficult to find a good starting place. I'll just more or less randomly start with the fact that your "55 per cent" INCLUDES the United States.

The "economic empire" continues to expand, if unevenly from year to year, the dollar is - even as you write - stronger than it has been in years.

You seem, in this paragraph and the whole post, to share the silly view that if an Asian makes a dollar or the local equivalent of one, it comes right out of the pockets of the an American. A decent economy doesn't run that way, not at all, not even close. The current imperfect, unfair world still makes it possible for all countries and all citizens to do better economically. And in the Asia-Pacific region, that's pretty well what is happening INCLUDING to America.

.

[Strangebrew]

I'll pass Make a deal with China and end selling your soul.

[Strangebrew]

Now India is the country to trade with more people to sell products to And think of all the 7-11's you could open. But then again I'm not in any curry.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Strangebrew

[Jackson86]

The TPP is nothing more than the economic version of US encirclement of China in the pacific region.

[poweratradio]

The US getting the cold shoulder?

Again!

[poweratradio]

Many so called free trade agreements a simply trade agreements. Even NAFTA with free trade in the name if far

from free trade. Canada wants to protect culture (publishing industry), milk, and egg marketing boards etc, the US

wants to protect farm subsidies, lumber industry, etc.. in other words both sides want to protect there industries

that are not that competitive, while opening up markets for themselves. The only true free trade agreements I am aware

of are between Australia and New Zealand and the formation of the European Union. Everything else is just a trade

agreement with give and take on both/all sides. Many of you know far more than I do but so far that is how I understand

these trade agreements. Of course it is big multinational companies that shape these agreements so it tends to be

there connections with conservative governments, Republicans in the US and Conservatives in Canada from which they

get what they want the most from.

You are obviously an advanced thinker. Hopefully it comes naturally without to much research effort. You clearly state the code of conduct they operate under in such a neat packaged precise paragraph. Kudos to you.

[poweratradio]

Trade with US are always in one way

That's why you call it trade.

Forget the 2 way street concept I believe he meant.! Deals with the U.S. is not trade but a one way street. 10-4

[NeverSure]

Trade with US are always in one way

That's why you call it trade.

Forget the 2 way street concept I believe he meant.! Deals with the U.S. is not trade but a one way street. 10-4

You're kidding, right? China, Taiwan and Japan built entire manufacturing businesses selling goods to the US. The US gets screwed. The US doesn't charge import duties to those countries, but they charge import duties to US goods entering their countries. They are protectionist to the max.

Same with Thailand. They can export duty free to the US but charge terrible duties on US goods they import.

The US is a sucker who should hit those countries with big tariffs which would close down their exports because then US made goods would be cheaper. That would create American jobs.

Some people are so flapping ignorant I can't believe it. America has been subsidising Asia including China for decades. It's time to stop. Let Thailand get into bed with China, let China shun the US and see what happens to them. The US is the biggest buyer of Chinese exports surpassing all of the EU.

Let's shut them down.

Edited November 11, 2014 by NeverSure

[poweratradio]

Trade with US are always in one way

That's why you call it trade.

Forget the 2 way street concept I believe he meant.! Deals with the U.S. is not trade but a one way street. 10-4

You're kidding, right? China, Taiwan and Japan built entire manufacturing businesses selling goods to the US. The US gets screwed. The US doesn't charge import duties to those countries, but they charge import duties to US goods entering their countries. They are protectionist to the max.

Same with Thailand. They can export duty free to the US but charge terrible duties on US goods they import.

The US is a sucker who should hit those countries with big tariffs which would close down their exports because then US made goods would be cheaper. That would create American jobs.

Some people are so flapping ignorant I can't believe it. America has been subsidising Asia including China for decades. It's time to stop. Let Thailand get into bed with China, let China shun the US and see what happens to them. The US is the biggest buyer of Chinese exports surpassing all of the EU.

Let's shut them down.

Again I must mention one way streets aka: trade one way. which is either or neither nor. Also china can do what you suggest because they hold more U.S. money then the U.S. can back with Gold. China can ruin the U.S. currency market in one day just by releasing their U.S. dollar into the system hence their good deal based on fear. I notice you left out NAFTA also where protectionism runs rampant. U.S. picks and chooses what is best for it any of the deals of which you suggest are one sided are of the U.S. making.

[NeverSure]

You're kidding, right? China, Taiwan and Japan built entire manufacturing businesses selling goods to the US. The US gets screwed. The US doesn't charge import duties to those countries, but they charge import duties to US goods entering their countries. They are protectionist to the max.

Same with Thailand. They can export duty free to the US but charge terrible duties on US goods they import.

The US is a sucker who should hit those countries with big tariffs which would close down their exports because then US made goods would be cheaper. That would create American jobs.

Some people are so flapping ignorant I can't believe it. America has been subsidising Asia including China for decades. It's time to stop. Let Thailand get into bed with China, let China shun the US and see what happens to them. The US is the biggest buyer of Chinese exports surpassing all of the EU.

Let's shut them down.

Again I must mention one way streets aka: trade one way. which is either or neither nor. Also china can do what you suggest because they hold more U.S. money then the U.S. can back with Gold. China can ruin the U.S. currency market in one day just by releasing their U.S. dollar into the system hence their good deal based on fear. I notice you left out NAFTA also where protectionism runs rampant. U.S. picks and chooses what is best for it any of the deals of which you suggest are one sided are of the U.S. making.

Where do you get this stuff? China and most other countries hold US dollars so they can engage in international trade. No one will accept Chinese money for trade goods. China, as well as Thailand and most others hold those dollars in the form of US bonds to back their trades.

The US dollar is the international unit of trade and is also called the petro-dollar if you want to buy oil. The dollar has been increasing in value.

China's debt to GDP ratio is about 250% as is Japan's. The UK's is about 100% and the US's is 90%. I posted links to all of that just a couple of days ago.

The UK is much deeper in debt for its size than the US and going in deeper thanks to the EU.

If China was to sell its US dollars its trade would come to a rapid halt. It is on the verge of bankruptcy already.

If the US slapped an import duty on China's goods, China would collapse. The US is the largest buyer of Chinese exports and Americans wouldn't pay the tariffs. They'd buy something else.

Drop the ignorance which keeps repeating that the US owes China money. If the US called those bonds, it is China who would be out of business.

[poweratradio]

You're kidding, right? China, Taiwan and Japan built entire manufacturing businesses selling goods to the US. The US gets screwed. The US doesn't charge import duties to those countries, but they charge import duties to US goods entering their countries. They are protectionist to the max.

Same with Thailand. They can export duty free to the US but charge terrible duties on US goods they import.

The US is a sucker who should hit those countries with big tariffs which would close down their exports because then US made goods would be cheaper. That would create American jobs.

Some people are so flapping ignorant I can't believe it. America has been subsidising Asia including China for decades. It's time to stop. Let Thailand get into bed with China, let China shun the US and see what happens to them. The US is the biggest buyer of Chinese exports surpassing all of the EU.

Let's shut them down.

Again I must mention one way streets aka: trade one way. which is either or neither nor. Also china can do what you suggest because they hold more U.S. money then the U.S. can back with Gold. China can ruin the U.S. currency market in one day just by releasing their U.S. dollar into the system hence their good deal based on fear. I notice you left out NAFTA also where protectionism runs rampant. U.S. picks and chooses what is best for it any of the deals of which you suggest are one sided are of the U.S. making.

Where do you get this stuff? China and most other countries hold US dollars so they can engage in international trade. No one will accept Chinese money for trade goods. China, as well as Thailand and most others hold those dollars in the form of US bonds to back their trades.

The US dollar is the international unit of trade and is also called the petro-dollar if you want to buy oil. The dollar has been increasing in value.

China's debt to GDP ratio is about 250% as is Japan's. The UK's is about 100% and the US's is 90%. I posted links to all of that just a couple of days ago.

The UK is much deeper in debt for its size than the US and going in deeper thanks to the EU.

If China was to sell its US dollars its trade would come to a rapid halt. It is on the verge of bankruptcy already.

If the US slapped an import duty on China's goods, China would collapse. The US is the largest buyer of Chinese exports and Americans wouldn't pay the tariffs. They'd buy something else.

Drop the ignorance which keeps repeating that the US owes China money. If the US called those bonds, it is China who would be out of business.

If you wish to use the word ignorant in this debate then it is you who seems to subscribe to it with this comment >If China was to sell its US dollars its trade would come to a rapid halt. It is on the verge of bankruptcy already.< I suggest you do some research on this point alone... While you are at check on your duty free comments as well. You are stating as facts total rubbish when you can so easily google duties.

[PaullyW]

The US is facing several harsh realities. Its economic empire is shrinking, the dollar is dying and the giant corporations which have traditionally propelled US presidents and politicians into power and dominated world markets face an increasingly severe mauling from China and the Asian tigers - ravenous beasts which already have their jaws locked around 55 per cent of world trade and still look hungry.

Hence the roll-out of so-called free trade initiatives, such as the TPP, designed to claw back lost ground for the Uncle Sam's beleaguered super-corporations and guarantee an ongoing edge over any opposition. In effect, these clandestine deals, drawn up and negotiated largely behind closed doors and with little public scrutiny, are Trojan horses, cynically constructed to rob sovereign governments of the right to control undesirable activities by commercial cuckoos in their midst.

For example, one clause of the much-maligned TPP entitles an immigrant company which considers itself unfairly treated by the regulators of a host nation to sue for damages, in respect of "notional" lost profits, in an international court of corporate lawyers set up specifically for the purpose. In some instances the sum demanded could amount to more than an entire nation's GDP - and act as a considerable deterrent to would-be indigenous regulators.

Despite President Obama throwing his considerable personal weight behind TPP - along with other similar free trade-damaging deals earmarked for implementation across other continents - the initiative has been widely condemned as blatant protectionism and met strong resistance from countries across Asia, including Thailand.

Assuming the TPP proves a dead duck, the same nations it sought to suborn now face a no less daunting task - that of ensuring that the alternative Apec agreement being negotiated with China is not another poisoned chalice offered by different hand. An continuing challenge for the Kingdom will be to welcome beneficial initiatives from both the Chinese and Americans while maintaining its own political and economic independence.

This will be no easy juggling act. Fortunately, Thai leaders have historically demonstrated considerable diplomatic agility when it comes to looking after their own - both internationally and on the domestic front - and the Kingdom is unlikely to be found wanting as the fading superpower and its rising star rival come a-courting.

O ye, of little faith

I reckon the US has some ways to go yet before worrying about any "dying". Still doing alright I take it.

When you say that Thai leaders have been historically demonstrated diplomatic agility, yes, that is a reasonable statement. But, I wonder if painting such a rosy picture of their actual big picture progress is warranted? One need only look at almost any measure (other than mandated Happiness) to see that Thailand's future is certainly not on strong economic foundations. Vast majority of the country are still poor. Country is small with small economy. No strategic vision. So, nothing like Switzerland in fact other than in its ability to avoid an @ss kicking from other, stronger countries. The middle way as it were.

I wonder if you've been in Thailand too long? Big world out there with real, heavy hitting players.

I wouldn't count out the US just yet.

[PaullyW]

Trade with US are always in one way

That's why you call it trade.

Forget the 2 way street concept I believe he meant.! Deals with the U.S. is not trade but a one way street. 10-4

You're kidding, right? China, Taiwan and Japan built entire manufacturing businesses selling goods to the US. The US gets screwed. The US doesn't charge import duties to those countries, but they charge import duties to US goods entering their countries. They are protectionist to the max.

Same with Thailand. They can export duty free to the US but charge terrible duties on US goods they import.

The US is a sucker who should hit those countries with big tariffs which would close down their exports because then US made goods would be cheaper. That would create American jobs.

Some people are so flapping ignorant I can't believe it. America has been subsidising Asia including China for decades. It's time to stop. Let Thailand get into bed with China, let China shun the US and see what happens to them. The US is the biggest buyer of Chinese exports surpassing all of the EU.

Let's shut them down.

And, despite all that, somehow the US is in arguably the BEST economic shape of them. Maybe those protectionist policies are hurting those countries (with exception of Japan)?