Divorce - Is she entitled to anything?

[Rjc123]

Fact is that in the UK, at least, men end up richer and women end up poorer after divorce.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/jan/25/divorce-women-research

[topdjdel]

Where did you marry? I may have missed that Sorry. Where is she now? 10k,if you married her in Thai then do a uncontested divorce. Its easy and cheap, I know I done it 2weeks ago.

[alantan88]

Sorry to hear that. I had exactly the same experience. Yes, entitle 50/50 in law. Best way is to sit down and comes with an agreement. Put it in black and white in front of lawyer. This is the cheapest way. Else, will need to go to the court and will cost you much much more.

[transam]

Sorry to hear that. I had exactly the same experience. Yes, entitle 50/50 in law. Best way is to sit down and comes with an agreement. Put it in black and white in front of lawyer. This is the cheapest way. Else, will need to go to the court and will cost you much much more.

Thai law, not farang law............

[Tokyo 90]

So much unprofessional, inaccurate advice on here.

The only person you should be listening to is a UK solicitor.

[dotpoom]

Just a thought ... she's thinking in round numbers.

Maybe counter offer with an agreed Bt 100,000 payable as the divorce papers are signed in Thailand.

She still saves face and a tidy sum for her efforts.

Good luck with the process.

I think offering your wife of 6 years 100,000 Baht to get out of your life might just be small enough to really get her back up and make her make every effort possible to really take you to the cleaners. I gave a girlfriend two and a half times that for the same reason after 2 years together (and was supporting her for those two years). We are very good friends today. Somehow, if we treat others with dignity and respect we seem to have better "luck" in life for it.

Edited November 14, 2014 by dotpoom

[Andre0720]

So the advice that I repeat to my son, 15 years old now...

Marry only to someone whose wealth is equivalent to yours...

[LemmyDude]

We got married in an amphur in Bangkok but I am still going to go to a solicitor for advice.

If I can get her to agree to a settlement and cooperate and fly back to Thailand would that be the end of it? Or would she still be able to make a claim at a later date if she ran out of money?

Unfortunately she hasn't been very cooperative since she went back to Thailand in October.

[alantan88]

Tokyo 90: Pls read carefully before writing unprofessional and inaccurate. What I wrote is the 'Cheapest' way.

Transam: U r right. Is Thai law.

Normally, once have to register the marriage in Thailand and the country of origin. Divorce needs to be done in 2 counties as well. If u do it in UK first, u need a solicitor and pay a hefty cost. This is why I suggested the cheapest way I.e. To do it in Thailand first. After u get the divorced cert. (Yellow color). Translate to English and certified by yr embassy. Bring the Thai divorce cert. to UK and u still need a solicitor to get the divorce done in UK. This is easiest and cheapest way.

[georgemandm]

Just don't get married but you have now you have to fix it up and I think she will get half of what you have so plan for it from now on and hide all your cash money like my friend did and he's exwife miss out on a lot of cash some things you can't hide but the cash yes so start from now and you will do ok cheers all the best .

[AnotherOneAmerican]

We got married in an amphur in Bangkok but I am still going to go to a solicitor for advice.

If I can get her to agree to a settlement and cooperate and fly back to Thailand would that be the end of it? Or would she still be able to make a claim at a later date if she ran out of money?

Unfortunately she hasn't been very cooperative since she went back to Thailand in October.

If she agrees to terms in Thailand under Thai law, that will be the end of it.

UK recognizes Thai marriage, and Thai divorce.

There is no chance for a second bite at any time in the future.

[alantan88]

Lemmy, I will be free another 2 hrs. If u ok, u can add me to skype at Alan_Tan_CT. I can show u everything I had gone through.

[spambot]

There are a lot of incredibly badly informed people about what is and isn't true under UK divorce law. What is most true is that if you call a solicitor in Thailand and file for divorce there today... she can't file in the UK. Given a lack of cross-border enforcement between the two nations; a Thai court could give her 100% of your stuff and she'd still get $0 in reality. A British court may not be as lenient on you. Stick the boot in first and stick it in hard.

Currently she is telling you where the divorce process should occur.

Start the process yourself in Thailand - And if TheSeamReaper is correct then you will have no problems.

Clearly you are feeling under pressure to give in to what she wants, equally she might feel in a similar way if you take action in Thailand.

In effect start thinking about what decides which country can take presidence and why.

She has been proactive - You might want to do the same.

[Jip99]

Tokyo 90: Pls read carefully before writing unprofessional and inaccurate. What I wrote is the 'Cheapest' way.

Transam: U r right. Is Thai law.

Normally, once have to register the marriage in Thailand and the country of origin. Divorce needs to be done in 2 counties as well. If u do it in UK first, u need a solicitor and pay a hefty cost. This is why I suggested the cheapest way I.e. To do it in Thailand first. After u get the divorced cert. (Yellow color). Translate to English and certified by yr embassy. Bring the Thai divorce cert. to UK and u still need a solicitor to get the divorce done in UK. This is easiest and cheapest way.

This is not correct - please read post 41 from AnotherOneAmerican who's response is spot.

You marry in Thailand and divorce in Thailand (effectively handing back the original marriage certificate in exchange for the divorce paper) that is the end of the matter.

Marriage and registration are two different matters. In this instance it is straight forward. Get the divorce done in Bangkok and once the settlement has been agreed you should be in the clear. A written acknowledgement that the £10,000 is in full and final settlement of the divorce would do no harm.

[harrry]

It doesnt matter if you divorce in the UK or Thailand she is entitled to 50% of all your assets. If you enter into a pre-nup you could be better off in Thailand. If you decide to pay her the 10 k you must do this through a laywer to make certain there is no further claims, although I think such an agreement could be declared void in a UK court.

Not completely true. If you start the procedings here it is very likely that the UK courts will refuse to hear the case as it is allready before a relevant court. It will award less...it only looks at assets gained in marriage and not past assets. Cost here would be much lower too as she would have to pay her own lawyer.....no legal aid and even if you had to make the one trip here needed for the court it would be cheapest.

[cup-O-coffee]

We got married in an amphur in Bangkok but I am still going to go to a solicitor for advice.

If I can get her to agree to a settlement and cooperate and fly back to Thailand would that be the end of it? Or would she still be able to make a claim at a later date if she ran out of money?

Unfortunately she hasn't been very cooperative since she went back to Thailand in October.

What makes you think that she has anything on you?

She does not. In fact, by what I read in about one hour on the Internet, you two are not even recognized as being married by UK law.

Consider this:

Overseas marriages are legal in the UK, provided they comply with the marriage laws of the country you have got married in. However, overseas marriage cannot be ‘registered’ here in the UK. An exception to this is where one of the couple is a serving member of, or is attached to, the British Armed Forces at the time of the marriage. This should be discussed with the Forces prior to the marriage-taking place.

If, however, this is not the case, provided one or both of you is a British citizen, and your wedding has taken place in one of the countries from which the General Register Office (GRO) can accept formal notifications, (these are referred to as ‘Article 7 marriages’. Please view the list of countries from which overseas certificates >> can be accepted), a ‘record’ can be created for your overseas marriage by depositing the marriage certificate along (with translations if applicable) in the GRO.

This record can be created at anytime after your marriage ceremony. In order to have your marriage certificate deposited you will need to specifically contact the GRO in the UK, and the British Embassy in the country you were married, as this is not an automatic process, and state that you wish to deposit your marriage certificate with the GRO.

You will need to provide the British Embassy, in the country where you got married, with a certified copy of your marriage certificate, which will have been duly authenticated by the local authority. They will then translate the certificate, possibly subject to a fee. The British Consular General will then forward the certificate, along with an accompanying note, to the GRO in the UK, again subject to a fee.

Once the documents have been received by the GRO you will be notified. The documents are then held with the GRO and from then onwards a copy of your marriage certificate can be requested, should the need arise.

Always check the exact rules and regulations during you wedding preparation.

Did you contact the GRO? I don't think so.

Read this: The Consular Marriages and Marriages under Foreign Law Order 2014 and tell me if you two performed any of these requirements. I doubt it.

Read this: The Immigration Bill and sham marriages and tell me if there isn't at least a HUGE loophole you could manipulate to demonstrate that she was leading you on these six years.

Moreover, when considering Seven things to consider before getting hitched abroad Item 2:

2. You cannot get a British marriage certificate if you get married abroad

Although you cannot get a British marriage certificate for a foreign marriage, you can deposit your foreign marriage documents with the General Records Office. That is not required, but it will, at least, enable you to get copies of your marriage documents if you need them in future.

Again, did you ever go to the GRO?

And you may also want to have a look through this: The Consular Marriages and Marriages under Foreign Law Order 2014

and this: Sham Marriage and Civil Partnerships

Lemmydude, I think you are looking at this from the south end of a north bound bull. You are talking as if you are married, when in fact, even were you two to wish to be married and for her to permanently settle in the UK, you would be looking at a gauntlet that is near impossible to achieve.

What I am basically telling you is it would be easier for you to prove that she is a sham wife and lead you on than it would be for her to prove that you are her husband under UK or Thai law.

With a bit of due diligence and some inexpensive action and documentation recording, you can tell her to take a high leap of a cliff, or simply give a polite good bye and walk away from any thoughts of trying to destroy your life.

She has no documentation to prove anything, and no processes have been carried out that would give any UK lawyer even a remote advantage over you. And if one does contact you, tell him that anything he has to say to you can be done in writing and mailed to you... absolutely NO PHONE CONVERSATIONS. Everything is in writing or nothing.

Lock her out and try to get a restraining order on her.

Focus on this: Sham Marriage. She didn't put out in six years, and she can't prove that this is not true.

Hang in there and give it some due diligence. She doesn't have a leg to stand on. You are not married. Perhaps you can even contact a good Thai attorney and arrange for a Sham Marriage in Thailand. You were mislead and given a lot of broken promises. It's funny how paperwork can disappear in Thailand.

Just some food for thought. When the bullets are about to fly, there is no room in the fox hole for idealists and wimps.

Apologies can be made by the victor after the ass kicking is finished.

Go get 'em tiger.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

We got married in an amphur in Bangkok but I am still going to go to a solicitor for advice.

If I can get her to agree to a settlement and cooperate and fly back to Thailand would that be the end of it? Or would she still be able to make a claim at a later date if she ran out of money?

Unfortunately she hasn't been very cooperative since she went back to Thailand in October.

What makes you think that she has anything on you?

She does not. In fact, by what I read in about one hour on the Internet, you two are not even recognized as being married by UK law.

If there is a Thai marriage certificate, he is married under UK law.

Your understanding of UK law is wrong.

No registration in the UK is required, any UK government office will accept a Thai marriage certificate, and a certified translation into English.

Exactly the same as Birth certificates.

Edited November 14, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[dunque]

And as she isn't working, and you are, she gets legal aid, and you don't.

That means at the end you get to pay all her legal fees as well as your own.

(as legal aid is generally recovered from the working spouse)

Strangely,

she can afford the very best lawyer, as she has to pay nothing up front, while you probably can't.

A mediocre lawyer in the UK, in a contentious divorce, will cost about 5,000UKP/month and up (that's each).

There is no legal aid for divorce in UK as of last year - you can get free conciliation services but that is all.

[Mudcrab]

Dunno about the UK law as such but Aussie law is very similar to Thai law. %0/50 split on all assets brought into a marriage and them consideration of what happened during the marriage.

Say a man has a million, gets married for a couple of years, earns 200,000 during this time and the wife earns nothing. Then she may be able to claim 100,000.

Mind you when I got divorced 15 years ago my lawyer told me he was going to court for a 60 year old bloke whose wife was going for the lot ...100% of all assets based on the fact that she was a stay at home mum who never worked but raised the kids and had no prospect of working and earning an income in he future whereas the man still had a few years of earning potential in him.

I think the OP will be ok...there shouldn't be a substantial claim based on a short marriage. Still see a lawyer.

[cup-O-coffee]

We got married in an amphur in Bangkok but I am still going to go to a solicitor for advice.

If I can get her to agree to a settlement and cooperate and fly back to Thailand would that be the end of it? Or would she still be able to make a claim at a later date if she ran out of money?

Unfortunately she hasn't been very cooperative since she went back to Thailand in October.

What makes you think that she has anything on you?

She does not. In fact, by what I read in about one hour on the Internet, you two are not even recognized as being married by UK law.

If there is a Thai marriage certificate, he is married under UK law.

Your understanding of UK law is wrong.

No registration in the UK is required, any UK government office will accept a Thai marriage certificate, and a certified translation into English.

Exactly the same as Birth certificates.

In all those UK laws I read, and the ones I posted (not to name the many others I read), I did not read anywhere that "he is married under UK law". Care to provide a government link which states exactly that, verbatum?

Edited November 14, 2014 by cup-O-coffee

[MAJIC]

yes

easy to get into and expensive to get out of

Thai marriage not registered at Embassy or Consulate OK

BUT

UK has Common Law and so as you lived with her in UK as man and wife then you are on the hook

Are you sure about Common Law?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/richard-adams/common-law-marriage-myth_b_2661452.html

[Jip99]

We got married in an amphur in Bangkok but I am still going to go to a solicitor for advice.

If I can get her to agree to a settlement and cooperate and fly back to Thailand would that be the end of it? Or would she still be able to make a claim at a later date if she ran out of money?

Unfortunately she hasn't been very cooperative since she went back to Thailand in October.

What makes you think that she has anything on you?

She does not. In fact, by what I read in about one hour on the Internet, you two are not even recognized as being married by UK law.

If there is a Thai marriage certificate, he is married under UK law.

Your understanding of UK law is wrong.

No registration in the UK is required, any UK government office will accept a Thai marriage certificate, and a certified translation into English.

Exactly the same as Birth certificates.

In all those UK laws I read, and the ones I posted (not to name the many others I read), I did not read anywhere that "he is married under UK law". Care to provide a government link which states exactly that, verbatum?

A married registered at a Thai amphur is legally valid globally i.e. they are legally married. Full stop.

She has entitlements. Full stop.

The rest comes down to negotiation.

[mercman24]

READ THIS sell up now and bloody move away, hide your money, if possible, surely as you live in the uk, you know the rules, a well known saying is "marry a thai/philipino and lose your house in 2 years," you are stitched my friend, try to offer some more money, otherwise it is 50% of wat ya got.

[maidee]

is it an option to take a leave of absence of your work, rent a condo cheap in bangkok, move officialy to thailand so any claim in the UK is void?

[ableguy]

She is entitled to,

At least half your home, maybe more, and residence in said home with an exclusion order for you until sold.

At least half any savings and investments you made in the last 6 years, judge would probably just award 50/50 on the lot.

Half any pension you earned in that 6 years.

Half of your NI payments, for the time she didn't earn any.

UK divorce law is brutal.

And as she isn't working, and you are, she gets legal aid, and you don't.

That means at the end you get to pay all her legal fees as well as your own.

(as legal aid is generally recovered from the working spouse)

Strangely,

she can afford the very best lawyer, as she has to pay nothing up front, while you probably can't.

A mediocre lawyer in the UK, in a contentious divorce, will cost about 5,000UKP/month and up (that's each).

Whatever you do, don't let her back in the house under any circumstances for any reason at any time (change the locks now, front and back).

If she calls at your house, do not open the door to her, record what she says through the door.

All and any meetings with her should be in public places in front of many witnesses, I would suggest only meeting during arbitration, which can be arranged very cheaply by your lawyer, about 50UKP/hour.

At the moment she has voluntarily relinquished her rights of residence in your home, which may prevent her getting a court order to stay in it (with you out) and you can claim she deserted you.

I say may, because if she claims she left because she was frightened of you, threatened by you, or beaten by you, then she's back in, any you're out.

PS

Don't mention 'rent free', she was your wife, expecting her to pay rent would be considered 'controlling behaviour' which is a form of abuse as far as UK family court is concerned.

Load of rubbish, I was in the same situation, married six years owned my home when we married, she was awarded none of it, I paid her a lump sum but would take me too long to explain why and it was a sun I suggested. How will she sustain herself in the UK whilst going through this.?

[transam]

My UK wife got stuffed by the UK court sorting the financial stuff out at the who gets what hearing.

Every case is different....

[cup-O-coffee]

A married registered at a Thai amphur is legally valid globally i.e. they are legally married. Full stop.

She has entitlements. Full stop.

The rest comes down to negotiation.

Still not reading any UK law here; just what you are saying. The numerous variables which qualify a marriage of this sort, simply to get it polished up, and to be able to put on the table for UK review makes the implications of what she "could do" mighty shaky.

Sham marriage. Marriage under duress. Marriages not annulled prior to existing marriage. Marriage of convenience...

I still vote that this woman has nothing to stand on. In fact, mentioning for him to pay her off is a mark against her if he can get that documented: it's blackmail. As she has no reason to ask him for money other than the fact that to do so is easily interpreted as give me, or else. And any intelligent person would ask, if you love him so much, then why place such a cheap price on your love, and is that all it takes for you to walk away? Or rather instead, an immigratin officer considering her application for citizenship because her love is worth 10,000 (or whatever it was). No dice!

It's all in how the facts are presented, and even legit couples who wish to run the gauntlet find it difficult, much less a citizen and a foreign national in dispute.

With a bit of knowledge on sham marriage laws in the UK, and the strict penalties and prison time one can get served with, it would be fairly easy for him to convince an authority that he wanted to avoid the sham once he found out she did not love him and began this "act" after she found out he was not going to afford her in some manner.

It is possible to object to this marriage after the fact if he has reasonable grounds.

It sounds to me like that would not be difficult to do, and in an extremely objective manner. Her behavior reeks of a sham if she still persists on wanting to be in the UK without him.

If she truly loved him, she would walk away and come back to Thailand and live here. No way she can prove this sham marriage is nothing but a preemptive move to convenience, sans the sucker.

Just my opinion, and the law is still on his side. She has a mountain to climb to even get any consideration by the law and I don't think any UK lawyer would do this pro-Bono for a foreigner on a green card.

Edited November 14, 2014 by cup-O-coffee

[Capt Rob]

Hi All,

Thanks for all your advice. I have contacted the citizens advice bureau and am going to make an appointment with a solicitor next week.

I am going to change the locks on my house as a few people have recommended that to me.

I really hate what is happening. I wish we could have remained friendly about this as I probably would of helped her out a bit to help her move on.

My ex sent me an email saying that she asked for some money to help with her rent when she first arrives here.

Do you think I could try to get things back on track by agreeing to help her with her rent for a short period of time and then get a divorce back in Thailand?

I think she is working on your easy going nature. Take your lawyers advice and in the mean time promise her nothing.

[Liquorice]

cup-O-coffee, on 14 Nov 2014 - 19:43, said:

AnotherOneAmerican, on 14 Nov 2014 - 19:32, said:

cup-O-coffee, on 14 Nov 2014 - 19:27, said:

LemmyDude, on 14 Nov 2014 - 18:35, said:

We got married in an amphur in Bangkok but I am still going to go to a solicitor for advice.

If I can get her to agree to a settlement and cooperate and fly back to Thailand would that be the end of it? Or would she still be able to make a claim at a later date if she ran out of money?

Unfortunately she hasn't been very cooperative since she went back to Thailand in October.

What makes you think that she has anything on you?

She does not. In fact, by what I read in about one hour on the Internet, you two are not even recognized as being married by UK law.

If there is a Thai marriage certificate, he is married under UK law.

Your understanding of UK law is wrong.

No registration in the UK is required, any UK government office will accept a Thai marriage certificate, and a certified translation into English.

Exactly the same as Birth certificates.

In all those UK laws I read, and the ones I posted (not to name the many others I read), I did not read anywhere that "he is married under UK law". Care to provide a government link which states exactly that, verbatum?

The marriage will only be recognised under UK law if it is valid under Thai law. For it to be valid in Thai law, the marriage must be registered with the Registrar at an Amphur Office (District Office). A list of some Amphur offices in Bangkok and upcountry is attached.

http://www.siam-legal.com/Thailand_Service/thailand-marriage-uk.php

Recording a Thai marriage in the UK isn't necessary. It is still recognised as a legal marriage if it was legal in Thailand.

[thhMan]

No wonder she is leaving.. you cant blame a woman for not wanting to live with a cheap charlie... who also thinks that they must live where he decides....

Your fault.. deal with it