Suspects in the murder of a 46 year old German man in Samui could walk free on Tuesday

[sambum]

Yes I really think they are -----but---. Lets face it,if they can easily come up with evidence that suits them for any particular occasion,and if they can persuade people that they are doing everything right,or if they can use the law that somehow will put them in a good light,then I sometimes think that maybe they have just learned to be very clever.I also believe that the old saying "time is a good healer"plays a big part in all these episodes,and even if the police have made the odd "blue",it will be all forgotten in a few months time and the most important thing is that the tourists will have forgotten it too,and all the people will be back to normal and earning lots of money again. What a happy ending !!!!!

I don't agree with most of your reasoning,I'm afraid. First of all, I think that quite a few recent events have shown that they can come up with "evidence" that does the exact opposite of showing them in a good light.

It shows them as "trying to be very clever" which is not quite the same! Also the old saying "time is a good healer" does sometimes apply, but there is another saying, which I believe was used by Japanese POW's - "We can forgive, but never forget" (In any cases I know of, or heard of - neither applies) People still remember the Chiang Mai murder, the New Year's Eve murder on Koh Samui, and will remember them for many years to come, and even more so the recent murders on Koh Tao. The current tourist figures show it (although the inability to acquire travel insurance during martial law may have a bearing), but in general, prospective visitors will take one nor two things into account when choosing their holiday destination, and one of these is primarily safety. For instance, who in their right mind would take themselves and their family to a war zone for a holiday? I am not saying that Thailand is a war zone (yet!) but people do remember negative publicity, and the above, combined with the strong baht, (why?) the closing of the Airport by protestors, the violence and deaths in the streets of Bangkok (caused by both sides) during political protests, the seemingly never ending occasions where "connected" Thais seem to be able to attack and even kill people with impunity (Red Bull heir) - these all serve to make people inclined to think that Thailand (and not just Bangkok) is quickly becoming a destination that is not safe, and getting less so by the day. There are also various other compelling reasons why tourists are opting for other destinations, but they are "off topic" and mostly covered already, (corruption, the farang always wrong in an accident, different pricing for Thais and farangs everywhere, unreliability of information etc etc etc) but even if the visitor is prepared to accept the "covered already" topics, if they don't feel safe, they aren't going to come! My final point is that a few years ago, people used to return to Thailand year after year for their annual holidays, and recommend it to their friends. This doesn't happen much anymore for all of the above reasons , but at the risk of repeating myself, it's because they don't feel safe anymore. Rant ended! (Temporarily!)

And a well put reply Sir

Thank you! Only today a Koh Tao "copycat" attack on a farang in Udon Thani can only justify my comments above! I wonder if the perpetrators in Udon Thani are "connected" and if so how long will it be until they are back on the streets again?

[bangon04]

Wonder if the world's press will pick up on this one

We can hope so, and do our best to spread the word.... German tabloids first I think - to add to the other good news...

[tingtongtourist]

I cannot help to think all this recent crime against farang is a built up anger and frustration from all the rage and nasty political fighting that been going on in the country in last few years.

And this "what did he do?" mentality, im sure a majority of Thais ask first when every foreigner gets murdered. So farang usually get the blame

So then assumption is that the guy did something to bring on and therefor condone the attack.

But no one deserve this no matter what.

and now the guy from UdonThani attacked for no reason and many posters saying "there must be more behind this" ect

Sadly i must admit i also think at first reaction "what did this guy do?" Then i am disgusted at myself, how my thinking has also got like that.

this whole business is just getting beyond the word dispicable.

I really hope for Thailands sake someone in authority gets up and give some statement to the world and promise some real plan and real action against all this

if some world media put all these latest things together in some 60 minute current affair television show, wow the country might as well kiss its tourism business goodbye

Edited November 17, 2014 by tingtongtourist

[Dannybigboy]

They are of course guilty....not all of them stabbed him of course......but it cant be to hard to pressure these youngsters and find out who delivered the fatal blow !! Thai justice is too slow.....maybe that is a deliberate tactic to stall things ??? Oh yeah !!

Another corrupt case like the one on Koh Tao where Hanna and David were killed ??? Yepp !! The real killers of Hannah and David are still at large as we speak !

[mrtoad]

Oh i thought thought he simply had zero moral backbone! Just a boring troll then........

He is the know it all, an expert in everything. Next he will be giving comments in The Spurs thread.

[patrick1968]

Bull<deleted> again ,,,,,,

[carmine]

How did the DNA tests come out? Oh... yeah... Thai perps.... never mind. "A rule that is not enforced ceases to be a rule". Seems to apply regarding murder of farangs in Thailand. Many Thais too, of course.

The DNA does not prove murder in this instance.

It simply identifies the weapon that was used to stab the German.

There could be a reasonable explanation why the weapon needed to be used.

Self-defense.

Please answer my questions in post #22. I'm sure i'm not the only one that would like you to clarify exactly what you mean. Thankyou

Please read my posts #17 and #27 since I have already made my point clear.

Secondly, your post #22 is an emotional rant and suggests I have said all sorts of things that any intelligent reader easily understands I did not.

They say breathing into a brown paperbag can help when you are hyper-ventilating.

But its up to you.

No answer directly to my post please.

So i ask you again, what exactly do you mean?

[HeijoshinCool]

If I recall the original incident correctly, the bike was not being stolen.

The hooligans were simply sitting on the bike waiting for the German to return so they could have a "friendly" discussion.

OK, since sarcasm is often lost on this crowd. They were waiting for him so they could rough him up. Was murder intended? Who knows? But such things can quickly escalate when alcohol is involved.

.

If that is the case, in California and other states, that would be called, Lying in Wait, would be evidence of intent, allowing the prosecutor the ability to raise the classification of the murder charge to first degree. Doesn't matter if they intended to kill him, or not.

One more nail in their coffin.

It has been said many times before on these forums and it will certainly be said again....... this is not California, HeijoshinCool. This is a lawless island in an unstable, socially backward, corruptly governed country.

.

Well, yes, that was my point. But I guess the oblique manner in which I phrased it was prone to be somewhat obscure to the obtuse.

[HeijoshinCool]

If I recall the original incident correctly, the bike was not being stolen.

The hooligans were simply sitting on the bike waiting for the German to return so they could have a "friendly" discussion.

OK, since sarcasm is often lost on this crowd. They were waiting for him so they could rough him up. Was murder intended? Who knows? But such things can quickly escalate when alcohol is involved.

.

If that is the case, in California and other states, that would be called, Lying in Wait, would be evidence of intent, allowing the prosecutor the ability to raise the classification of the murder charge to first degree. Doesn't matter if they intended to kill him, or not.

One more nail in their coffin.

This ain't California or Kansas Toto.

.

Same reply as above post.

[HeijoshinCool]

And is this not the same prosecutor's office? It is certainly in the same province.

EDIT: Illiterate spell-checker.

Actually it is not.

Koh Samui belongs to Surat Thani province but Koh Tao belongs to Chumphon province.

.

Yes, but the Burmese case is being handled by the Samui prosecutor's office.

[manarak]

The perps must absolutely pay dearly for this crime!

Some people hold the belief that the more planned and the more fruitful the murder is for the perp, the heavier the sentence should be - I believe the opposite: the more gratuitous and stupid a crime is, the harsher it should be punished, because it shows total disdain for human life.

There are young murderers who hurry with murdering someone 'just to know how it feels' before they reach the age at which they can get real sentences.

I'd remove them permanently from the gene pool.

Thailand has this growing problem because too many young Thai males grow up without a father, or one that is too absent from their education.

[RTH10260]

its no wonder the tourist numbers are dwindling, are the police really that stupid to not understand what damage is being done to the thai image

Thai police couldn't care less, tourism is not their line of business. Any income from the tourism industry to line their pockets will flow anyhow. Only a significant breakdown of the tourist industry and a huge number of shops going out of business and therefor not supplying their lifestyle will wake them up.

[jesimps]

This is another example of tourist not getting justice in thailand wht would the prosecuter leave it this long ?

If I were the defense attorney:

My client was awaiting the arrival of the now deceased German to discuss the deceased continued harassment of his female Thai ladyfriend and employee of the deceased.

The deceased became very belligerent and combative when my client requested the deceased quit sexually harassing my lady friend. My client had to protect himself from the physical aggression of the much larger German man and when in fear of his own life he eventually stabbed the aggressor.

There are no witnesses to the contrary.

-----------

if I recall, the "lady" in question made statements at the time to indicate she was supportive of the Thai male rather than the now deceased German.

Ofcourse, my own opinion on what happened is NOT what I describe above; however, the charge of murder is not as "cut & dry" as some here suggest.

My own opinion, based on the original news article (and we all should know by now not to place much belief in any news article) is that the "lady" was playing both ends. She was leading the German on to improve her position at work and for the good life of restaurants and gifts that comes from dating farang while at the same time playing her old Thai boyfriend who wanted her back. In all too typical fashion, she has nothing to gain by defending a dead German whose wallet is now dry and she now sides with the Thai boyfriend who has much more to now offer than a dead farang.

The prosecution would have to rely heavily on her testimony since the accused friends are the only witnesses and will support him.

My opinion from the beginning is that when the German approached a group of Thai males sitting on his motorcycle in the dark night, he should have had the wisdom to walk away and retrieve the bike the next morning. He was not a tourist, he was a bar owner and lived in Thailand long enough to know the danger of the Thai male mindset.

You're a wind-up merchant pal and have been for a while now. Can't understand why you haven't been banned for trolling.

[Straight8]

They fled the crime scene without knowing that the victim was dead, Pol.Col. Satit said.

Typical thai way of saying, "I didn't know, he was dead...."

Yeah you'll not see shitbags walk away from justice in the West through technicalities, lack of evidence/witnesses/corroboration etc.

We always get it right and the Thais always do their utmost to get it wrong.

If Thailand and Thais are so morally irredeemable, put yourself out of your misery and do us all a favour...buy a one way ticket back to your own little. 'jerusalem'.

Yawn.

Well gee, thanks for enlightening us on our options.

I'll also give that "1st prize for originality" comment a big............... Yawn!!!

[bender92]

I wonder who the boys' fathers are? That will determine guilt or innocence.

[PoorSucker]

And is this not the same prosecutor's office? It is certainly in the same province.

EDIT: Illiterate spell-checker.

Actually it is not.

Koh Samui belongs to Surat Thani province but Koh Tao belongs to Chumphon province.

.

Yes, but the Burmese case is being handled by the Samui prosecutor's office.

Koh Tao is a tambon within the district of Koh Pha Ngan of Surat Thani Province.

[monkeycountry]

I am guessing the Thai police / prosecutor was hoping after 84 days everyone would have forgotten and the case could silently be dropped and the perpetrators be let out the back door. Someone might be suing Samui Times for not keeping this secret.

[slipperylobster]

This must be the new "Five out, Five in" rule. Just read about the attempted Murder in Udon with the hoe. That along with the successful murder with the hoe (Koh Tao) would basically make it that.

Where I went to school...it still adds up to 10 bads guys, who find it fun to kill farangs. That is just recently~~

Edited November 18, 2014 by slipperylobster

[Tropicalevo]

Seems that they are not going to be freed today after all.

http://www.samuitimes.com/samui-prosecutor-gives-police-one-month-make-case-suspects-murdered-german/

So how are some of your (well worn) predictions looking now?

[luckyman]

And is this not the same prosecutor's office? It is certainly in the same province.

EDIT: Illiterate spell-checker.

Actually it is not.

Koh Samui belongs to Surat Thani province but Koh Tao belongs to Chumphon province.

.

Yes, but the Burmese case is being handled by the Samui prosecutor's office.

Koh Tao is a tambon within the district of Koh Pha Ngan of Surat Thani Province.

I think we are both correct, because according to Wikipedia it is as follows:

Why these ads?

"Turtle Island") is an island in Thailand and forms part of the Chumphon Archipelago on the western shore of the Gulf of Thailand. It covers an area of about 21 km². Administratively it forms a tambon within the district (amphoe) Ko Pha Ngan of Surat Thani Province.

[hobz]

"One of the suspects said Mr. Volker berated the group for sitting on his motorcycle in the parking lot of a nightclub, Pol.Col. Satit said. The suspects confessed to punching and stabbing him in the neck after the argument escalated, the officer said."

So he confessed to assault, why arn't they being charged with that? I know it is only a 500 baht fine for a Thai....but at least it is something !!

Maybe they can't prove it wasn't self defense... ps stabbing someone in the neck is not assault. It's attempted murder / murder

[hobz]

its no wonder the tourist numbers are dwindling, are the police really that stupid to not understand what damage is being done to the thai image

Thai police couldn't care less, tourism is not their line of business. Any income from the tourism industry to line their pockets will flow anyhow. Only a significant breakdown of the tourist industry and a huge number of shops going out of business and therefor not supplying their lifestyle will wake them up.

What's really sickening is that the really wealthy always gains by a sudden drop. Because they can buy up all the failing businesses or even get them for free if they default. And when tourism goes back up again they own a bigger share of the market. Pure profit

[Lex Talionis]

The judicial system in this country defies logics, every prosecutor is an entity on it's self, they're powerful

people in their capacity, if they wish so to prosecute than the will even if the evidence are flimsy at best,

if they decide not to prosecute, and damn the many evidences at hands, than this is it unless

a higher court will appeal, want

Just out of curiosity where do you get this information? Is it hearsay or are there actual cases you can point to?

[siampolee]

Lex Talionis post # 120

Just out of curiosity where do you get this information? Is it hearsay or are there actual cases you can point to?

Methinks you need to get out more and also peruse the media a little more my boy or girl.

You've either not been here very long or you've led a very sheltered existence going by your comment.

[Lex Talionis]

typical TV blather. 5 pages of hot air and then:

today it has been reported that Prosecutor in Chief Paibul Achawanantakul has given the police one month to submit their case against the accused, it is believed this report will implicate a further suspect in the case. The prosecutor believes that there is enough evidence to put all of the accused on trial for the murder of Volker Schwartges.

ahem

[Lex Talionis]

Lex Talionis post # 120

Just out of curiosity where do you get this information? Is it hearsay or are there actual cases you can point to?

Methinks you need to get out more and also peruse the media a little more my boy or girl.

You've either not been here very long or you've led a very sheltered existence going by your comment.

Not saying one way or the other. But everybody know, opinions are like &lt;deleted&gt;. Everybody got one. Getting down to actual cases, on the other hand, backing up your gas - well that's a lot harder to do. But go ahead, blow it out of your nose. Might do you some good.

[tomacht8]

Seems that they are not going to be freed today after all.

http://www.samuitimes.com/samui-prosecutor-gives-police-one-month-make-case-suspects-murdered-german/

So how are some of your (well worn) predictions looking now?

They are freed on bail since 2,5 month!

translated:

However, it came to light that the youth confessed Ittison Tanprasert, head of a local youth gang up on Samui, has been two and a half months can roam freely on the island. His family made on August 21, a security deposit for the release and deposited as collateral country papers. The other accused accomplices are, according to the court for many weeks no longer in custody.

http://der-farang.com/de/pages/mordfall-schwartges-schlampige-polizeiarbeit

[Tropicalevo]

Lex Talionis post # 120

Just out of curiosity where do you get this information? Is it hearsay or are there actual cases you can point to?

Methinks you need to get out more and also peruse the media a little more my boy or girl.

You've either not been here very long or you've led a very sheltered existence going by your comment.

There is a lot of rhetoric and barstool lawyering on the forum. Especially on recent threads.

Just because something is said on social media does not make it a fact. Saying it 500 times or 50,000 times on social media still does not make it a fact.

Equally - there is corruption here as well as in most other places in the world. Also - God forbid, the police and judges in Thaialnd do make mistakes and again - as in most other places in the world.

The fact that all of these recent cases have happened is sad and unforgivable and all the more poignant because this is a tropical island paradise where people come to live their dreams.

Small facts (from personal experience). I have been involved in 3 different court cases in Thailand. 2 in Bangkok and one in Hua Hin. In all three cases - the innocent went free and the guilty went to jail. (One murder, one death in an auto accident and one libel.) From the justice system that I have witnessed - 100% accurate.

My last piece of personal experience that I will share is that I have frequently interacted with Samui's finest. Usually on behalf of my guests or trying to assist at accidents. I have always found them to be professional (but not in a 'British Bobby' way) and helpful as far as they can be given their constraints/restrictions.

Samui's BIBs have helped me to recover stolen property a number of times and they have never asked for a bribe. The only police that I have found that do that are the traffic cops in Bangkok.

EDIT - 45 years working with computers and I still cannot trype

Edited November 18, 2014 by Tropicalevo

[Tropicalevo]

Seems that they are not going to be freed today after all.

http://www.samuitimes.com/samui-prosecutor-gives-police-one-month-make-case-suspects-murdered-german/

So how are some of your (well worn) predictions looking now?

They are freed on bail since 2,5 month!

translated:

However, it came to light that the youth confessed Ittison Tanprasert, head of a local youth gang up on Samui, has been two and a half months can roam freely on the island. His family made on August 21, a security deposit for the release and deposited as collateral country papers. The other accused accomplices are, according to the court for many weeks no longer in custody.

http://der-farang.com/de/pages/mordfall-schwartges-schlampige-polizeiarbeit

One paper states one thing - another states something different.

In English:

'other reports suggested that one of the suspects was in fact not being detained at the jail but was let out on bail two months ago'

So - we still do not know the facts! I certainly do not believe everything that I read in the papers in this country - too many places for errors with bad translation.

[razer]

They have the murder weapon found in the house of one of the accused ... they should have the broken glass bottles from the scene of the crime ... but do Thai police know about fingerprints yet? If they do know about fingerprints then what's the problem?

I hope the German Embassy raises Hell ... and the Deutsch media as well ... where is Der Spiegel?