Former Dreamliner Safety Engineer: I don't feel safe flying on the 787

(eTN) I don't feel safe flying on the 787. Given what I've seen, working at the South Carolina Boeing plant, doing structural repairs for the Boeing 787, I definitely would be concerned about flying on it myself.

These are the words of former Boeing Manufacturing Engineer John Woods in an interview with Al Jazeera.

In September 2009, Boeing hired John Woods for its 787 "Dreamliner" factory in Charleston, South Carolina.

Just over a year later, Boeing fired him. The company said he was working too slowly.

Woods said he was fired for raising safety concerns. He filed a whistleblower complaint with the US aviation safety regulator, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), alleging seven serious violations. The FAA substantiated only one of the seven: that Boeing used "inadequate manufacturing planning documents that lacked revision control and were missing inspection steps".

Woods also appealed to Boeing's Ethics Department, claiming he was being harassed. After 91 days, Boeing rejected his complaint. The Labor Court upheld the company.

A worker has 90 days from the point at which they believe they have been retaliated against to make a complaint with the Department of Labor. For Woods, because he had waited for Boeing's Ethics Department, he could not turn to the Department of Labor.

At the time he was hired, Woods had declared to Boeing that he had psychiatric conditions: Attention Deficit Disorder, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, and mild depression.

Full story: http://www.eturbonews.com/52717/former-dreamliner-safety-engineer-i-dont-feel-safe-flying-787

-- eTN 2014-11-19

The safety engineer doesn't feel safe,maybe he's got Thai roots!

^^ What an unnecessarry and unnecessarily dumb comment containing gratuitous Thai bashing.

Not so long back, a TV program highlighted the amazing number of Boeing workers who said they would not fly on a 787. That plane has a bad reputuation, and maybe not without good reason.... I was going to say "where there's smoke etc etc", but in light of the batery issue, perhaps I'll skip that.

Disgruntled employee.

So far they're not falling from the skies.

B787 Dreamliner: Unsafe according to some Boeing experts

(eTN) Is the Dreamliner really safe? Employers for Boeing do not always think so. Al Jazeera's report and currently aired on that network is nothing more than shocking.

Worker C (Quality Assurance worker): They've been flying for a few years and haven't had any go down. I personally wouldn't get on one for five years. If I had to go to Thailand and have fun for a week or two and they put me on a 787, I'd change my flight. I'd go on a 777 or a 747.

On the 'Dreamliner'
Worker A: My in-laws are about to fly on one of these things, they asked me, oh is it safe?
Worker E: I wouldn't.
Worker A: You wouldn't, dude you're a lead!
Worker E: Yeah, I know.
Worker A: And you wouldn't fly on one.
Worker E: I would not until probably plane 100.
Worker A: What are we at?
Worker E: One hundred and this way [points]. First 100 no way! I've been here since plane 20.
Worker A: Jesus.

Full story: http://www.eturbonews.com/52716/b787-dreamliner-unsafe-according-some-boeing-experts

-- eTN 2014-11-19

For those who have not endured a flight in a Dreamliner it has hard seats.

I recently had the most uncomfortable journey in one from Ghuangzhou China to Bangkok. It was as bad as a similar trip,I endured from Mumbai to BKK on a 737. I am a regular sized bloke but the seat configuration and hardness made the three hour trip excruciating.

Give me an Airbus any day. I am not a. Thai Airways fan but I love their comfy roomy Airbus's on internal flights.

Edited November 19, 201411 yr by Jay Sata

At the time he was hired, Woods had declared to Boeing that he had psychiatric conditions: Attention Deficit Disorder, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, and mild depression.

Just what you need when fixing planes. Shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

Boeing.

Parachutes come as standard.

Boeing have got left behind in commercial design and the Dreamliner is not match for the long established Airbus range.

The A380 is a wonderful aircraft. It will take Boeing decades to catch up.

So he would be and feel safer on a bus in Thailand rather than fly up North.

he said flying in one of these is on par with a bus trip in thailand

Disgruntled employee.

So far they're not falling from the skies.

You really need to do more research on this matter before you dismiss it like that. To begin with it's not one employee. A number of existing employees have expressed similar sentiments. Of course they are not falling out of the sky today because it's a new aircraft. But it won't be a new aircraft in five or ten years time and that is when some of these employees could be proved right.

"At the time he was hired, Woods had declared to Boeing that he had psychiatric conditions: Attention Deficit Disorder, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, and mild depression." However through his complaint, changes to safety were made so I give him that.

For those who have not endured a flight in a Dreamliner it has hard seats.

I recently had the most uncomfortable journey in one from Ghuangzhou China to Bangkok. It was as bad as a similar trip,I endured from Mumbai to BKK on a 737. I am a regular sized bloke but the seat configuration and hardness made the three hour trip excruciating.

Give me an Airbus any day. I am not a. Thai Airways fan but I love their comfy roomy Airbus's on internal flights.

Airlines pick interiors and specify seat pitch. Not the manufacturer.

'No revision control on some manufacturing planning documents'.

I worked in an aircraft software development team and people who would be in a position to shout about things like that have absolutely zero impact on any of the system development or it's ultimate safety. They are there for ticks in boxes at audits.

Definitely a disgruntled employee who Aljazeera have delighted in blowing out of all proportion to discredit the USA. He is an insult to real whistle-blowers who have the courage to stand up for what they think is right.

For those who have not endured a flight in a Dreamliner it has hard seats.

I recently had the most uncomfortable journey in one from Ghuangzhou China to Bangkok. It was as bad as a similar trip,I endured from Mumbai to BKK on a 737. I am a regular sized bloke but the seat configuration and hardness made the three hour trip excruciating.

Give me an Airbus any day. I am not a. Thai Airways fan but I love their comfy roomy Airbus's on internal flights.

The internal fit out out of a passenger aircraft I always believed, is a specification of the Operator (airline), not the aircraft manufacturer. To generalise that 767 seats are hard is a tad wide of the mark.

Boeing have got left behind in commercial design and the Dreamliner is not match for the long established Airbus range.

The A380 is a wonderful aircraft. It will take Boeing decades to catch up.

Yes the A380 is a very good aircraft although Boeing has trumped Airbus with the 787 in fuel savings. It's Airbus who needs to catch up unless fuel prices go down.

NB:Interesting test done on trans Pacific flight comparing 777 and 787 fuel consumption = 30 tonnes less for the Dreamliner.

Incidentally, the OP story is a load of BS. Been circulating for many months and I'm surprised anyone would still give credence to it.

They don't call it the Screamliner for nothing.

Qatar are flying one BAH-DOH, because the flight isn't long enough for the thing to overheat and catch fire again.

Boeing have got left behind in commercial design and the Dreamliner is not match for the long established Airbus range.

The A380 is a wonderful aircraft. It will take Boeing decades to catch up.

Yes the A380 is a very good aircraft although Boeing has trumped Airbus with the 787 in fuel savings. It's Airbus who needs to catch up unless fuel prices go down.

NB:Interesting test done on trans Pacific flight comparing 777 and 787 fuel consumption = 30 tonnes less for the Dreamliner.

Incidentally, the OP story is a load of BS. Been circulating for many months and I'm surprised anyone would still give credence to it.

But the 777 can carry more (passengers and cargo), and the Airbus A380 even more than that.

I'd like to see costs per tonne, which might be a more meaningful statistic.

Added: This isn't up to date, but it states that the new A350's are 25% more fuel efficient than the 777. It also says the A380 is the most fuel efficient.

http://www.businesstraveller.asia/asia-pacific/news/six-of-the-most-fuel-efficient-aircraft

Edited November 19, 201411 yr by Chicog

Boeing have got left behind in commercial design and the Dreamliner is not match for the long established Airbus range.

The A380 is a wonderful aircraft. It will take Boeing decades to catch up.

Yes the A380 is a very good aircraft although Boeing has trumped Airbus with the 787 in fuel savings. It's Airbus who needs to catch up unless fuel prices go down.

NB:Interesting test done on trans Pacific flight comparing 777 and 787 fuel consumption = 30 tonnes less for the Dreamliner.

Incidentally, the OP story is a load of BS. Been circulating for many months and I'm surprised anyone would still give credence to it.

" Incidentally, the OP story is a load of BS. Been circulating for many months and I'm surprised anyone would still give credence to it."

If that's the case, how do you explain the same criticism from Vincent A. Weldon back in 2006 who has an exemplary 46 year career having designed critical components for the Apollo moon mission, as well as the space shuttle?

Weldon told Boeing management that the carbon fiber-reinforced plastic material which was being used to construct the Boeing 787 Dreamliner was unsafe, less safe than a conventional aluminium aircraft, and that in the event of a crash the composite fuselage would "shatter too easily and burn with toxic fumes".^[7] Boeing fired Weldon in July 2006.^[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Weldon

Edited November 19, 201411 yr by Asiantravel

'No revision control on some manufacturing planning documents'.

I worked in an aircraft software development team and people who would be in a position to shout about things like that have absolutely zero impact on any of the system development or it's ultimate safety. They are there for ticks in boxes at audits.

Definitely a disgruntled employee who Aljazeera have delighted in blowing out of all proportion to discredit the USA. He is an insult to real whistle-blowers who have the courage to stand up for what they think is right.

“Definitely a disgruntled employee who Aljazeera have delighted in blowing out of all proportion to discredit the USA”

oh really ?

In 2007 the US journalist and broadcaster Dan Rather Reports produced a documentary entitled “ Plastic Planes “

Top former and current Boeing engineers believe the new 787 Dreamliner should not be certified to fly since it was built primarily out of high tech plastics called composites.

http://www.amazon.com/Dan-Rather-Reports-231-Plastic/dp/B0018C6TQ8%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-d-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB0018C6TQ8

Boeing have got left behind in commercial design and the Dreamliner is not match for the long established Airbus range.

The A380 is a wonderful aircraft. It will take Boeing decades to catch up.

The A350 is the more direct Airbus challenger to the 787.

I'd like to fly on a 787. Have even contemplated flying Air India, but the scheduling doesn't work well for me.

The rollout of the Dreamliner was had many problems compared to a380. This makes me think Airbus is much more concerned about safety than Boeing. That is Airbus will delay the rollout until all issues are resolved while Boeing is more interested in getting product out of the door...

The 787 has much more new tech in it. The A380 is relatively conventional. To an extent, I think the 787 is experimental and the lessons learned will be used for future airliners. The thing I always wondered about was why so many obscure airlines were among the initial recipients- Ethiopian, Kenyan, Air India etc. I would have expected Boeing to be pushing to more prestigious airlines first.

I have flown the 787 twice between DEN and NRT, once each way. Both times we had delays due to aircraft problems. One was minimal, the other was substantial.

As far as the aircraft itself, I was a bit underwhelmed. As others have noted, the interior specs are largely dictated by the customer.

I have done quite a few trips in the Dreamliner and have to say after all the hype I was totalled underwhelmed.

Boeing hyped this aircraft because it is their first foray in to a territory dominated by Airbus.

They derided the fly by wire and composite technology and got left behind with variants of the 737 and 747 which were designed in the 1960's.

They got left behind and in trying to catch up made loads of mistakes not least in the electrics.

The main benefit from a passenger's point of view is that the air pressure is higher, so you benefit from more humid and more oxygen rich air. Not sure how much you notice that. I'm sure the airlines still cram them in.

I can't say I have noticed.

Has anybody that criticizes Aljazeera news ever watched if for more than 30 seconds or do they just spout the

FOX news party line. I have only watched the English version as I do not understand Arabic, but the English channel provides excellent balanced coverage of world stories that are may not be covered by CNN or BBC which I also consider excellent. All this said I think both Air Bus and Boeing are excellent reputable companies who both set the gold standard in aircraft design and manufacture. I feel 100% safe when flying on both companies equipment and I make flight choices based on cost and logistics. All this said I find it hard to believe that a company with Boeing's reputation would suppress/cover-up any design/manufacturing flaws. The cost of an accident in lives, money and reputation are just too big if they are found to be at fault for a design/manufacturing flaw accident Only time will tell but from what I have read you have one guy who yes helped put a man on the moon using a slide rule who believes aluminium is the only way to go, and this guy who has OCD and maybe thinks nothing is ever good enough. Just my two cents.

I have made thousands of flights and will hopefully make a few hundred more and I look forward to a flight on the Dreamliner.

Boeing has a cost controls programme and in order to contain it there were moves a few years ago,to outsource a lot of manufacturing previously done in house at their Seattle plant.

It did not go down well with the locals as this from the Seattle Times underlines:

Boeing 787s problems blamed on outsourcing, lack of oversight
Company engineers blame the 787s outsourced supply chain, saying that poor quality components are coming from subcontractors that have operated largely out of Boeings view.

By Dominic Gates
Seattle Times Aerospace writer.

On the Dreamliner, seen here at the Everett widebody jet plant, Boeing contracted with a top tier of about 50 suppliers in all, handing them complete control of the design of their piece of the plane, including the electrical.

Boeings 787 Dreamliner has suffered numerous electrical system flaws beyond the battery problems that led to its current grounding, according to engineers with knowledge of the situation.

Read more here: http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2020275838_boeingoutsourcingxml.html

Edited November 19, 201411 yr by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy and supporting link added.