why can't I find qualified office worker for 30,000 baht

[lvr181]

What about hiring a foreigner? Is that an option? There's gotta be a few qualified English teachers that could use a break from the classroom. It might cost you a little more to hire one, but could be worth it given your inability to find good Thai staff.

Good to see some lateral thinking!

[konying]

The labor market is a market, which means the market sets the price. If no one accepts the OP's offer it must therefore be too low, assuming that his adertising is effective at reaching his target group. Thailand claims to have close to full employment, which stories like this encourage me to believe may actually be true. The Thai economy is slowing down, but not contracting yet. So, it is apparently still the case that workers are choosy.

Sorry but you make me laugh.

Bank employees are on 15 k per month .

Hotel managers are on 30k per month

Office staff are on 15-20k per month , but in your baseless opinion OP does not offer enough.

If OP offered 100k per month , rest assured he will have same unqualified people coming for interview.

I once ran an experiment offering 40k per month for a 9k per month job.

The same type applied , I chose the best one and guess how long she lasted ? 1 day is the answer.

Why? Because lazy ass thought learning company rules was too hard

Hotel managers are on 30k per month

This must be guesthouse managers with a few rooms only.

F&B Manager: Around 65-80,000B per month

Sales & Marketing Manager 70-120,000B per month

Residence Manager: 120,000B per month

General Manager: 150-450,000B per month

I am talking about 4-5 star hotels, both Thai or foreign brands.

A three star hotel would be minus 25%.

Also I disagree, not all Thais are lazy.

I am a consultant to many companies (all farang owned) and they have a work force of between 150 - 3000 staffs.

They pay premium and most of their staffs are on average 10 years already at the company.

Thais want to work for large companies and the best of the pack ends up in those companies.

I can only wonder where you pulling these figures from.

Assistant Manager at All Seasons-30K(my ex was one)

Assistant Manager at Hilton-30K(a friend of mine is)

General Manager at Holiday Inn-90k per month(was offered the job)

General Manager, foreigner sourced in Thailand 90K

General Manager brought from Overseas-120-150 package.

Not sure where you consulting and to whom you consulting to, but after almost 14 years in business myself and all of my friends who are in business for just as long, seem to have different opinion from yours.

May be grass looks greener on the other side.Though admittedly things have gotten worse in the past 2 years. May be minimum wage rise related.

The more they get paid, they less they want to work.

[konying]

You already hitting the right places, the fact that you not getting employees has little to do with where you been advertising.

This is a problem nationwide.

I advertise for staff 365 days per year and always short staffed.

I advertise for ability to speak some English, they show up and can not speak any.

I advertise people with experience ONLY, but they show up with no experience at all.

I advertise for the night shift, they show up wanting to work ONLY morning.

Just keep on advertising, but to make you feel better, i am so short staffed, that i have been working 20 hour per day for the past 3 weeks and no prospect

of stopping, as no one is showing up for interview, and the ones who do show up, are beyond useless.

"I advertise people with experience ONLY, but they show up with no experience at all"

Yes, but this is a universal complaint for job seekers. If people only want employees with prior experience it greatly limits the opportunity for those seeking work, particularly young people, to ever acquire any useful experience.

Depending on the nature of the work you might offer a 2 or 3 month trial period at reduced salary while they gain experience, with the prospect of a bonus & higher salary for those who stick with it and develop the skills you want. Sometimes starting out with someone who has no experience ... there's no guarantee experience gained elsewhere includes the sort of work habits or methodology you value ... may prove better for you in the long run.

I would nominate you for nobble prize if i could.

When company advertises for people with experience, it means just that-people with experience, it does not mean anything else but that.

When company advertisers no experience required or does not mention anything about the experience then one can assume they could apply.

Welcome to the real world not fantasy internet world

[Nepal4me]

Shouldn't be an issue. Maybe I can refer you 2-3 candidates. Is this in Bangkok?

We are in Bangkok, near Lumpini Park. If you could refer me candidates, that would be most appreciated. PM would be best.

Thanks very much.

[wooloomooloo]

why can't I find qualified office worker for 30,000 baht

Wait until you've tried to recruit in London. Absolute professionals at interviews and it all ends there. Useless.

[Nepal4me]

If you need people with good English and MS office skills, then I know some. Contact me at [email protected]

Thanks, I'll send you an email immediately.

[johnnybangkok]

Since I'm running one of Thailand's largest executive search agencies hopefully I have a bit of insight that may help you.
Firstly there is no such thing as an impossible hire. I guarantee that the person you are looking is out there; it's just about how you find them, attract them and then retain them. Blaming the state of the market or the lack of available talent is universal; you hear it in London, in New York in Tokyo. There is ALWAYS a lack of great talent so the trick is to put yourself in as good a position as possible to ensure that you aren't overlooked by this talent.
The finding them is the most challenging and is why many companies use recruitment partners such as ourselves but if your budget doesn't stretch to agencies then you can do your own advertising (Jobs DB being the obvious) but the trick here is to be creative and stand out from the crowd. I don't know the specifics of what you are looking for but all candidates are looking for more than ‘just a job’ and with so much competition for English speaking candidates, you really have to go to town on your USP’s.

As well as being an attractive advert you should also continually advertise which is very important when you are relying on hiring the same people time after time. The idea is that if you only advertise when you want the people, then you are limiting yourself to who applies at the time rather than continuously advertising and 'grazing' for the best people. Candidates apply to jobs when it suits them so if you are restricting yourself to say 1 month of advertising, you are missing 11 months of applicants.
The next stage is attracting and that takes into consideration salary (are you really competitive in the market, 30k sounds good but what are you comparing it to?), benefits and career progression. You really need to find your USP and if you don't have any, then may I suggest to start creating them. USP's come in many forms; it could be the type of work they will be doing, the office environment (working with like minded people etc), the chance to learn more skills or career advancement. Do a poll of your current people to see what they think is good about working at your company and even talk to people who left. If you always conduct an exit interview you will start to know what didn't work for that certain person and be able to adjust things for the future.
You can also get involved in Facebook campaigns and also pay for access to Jobs Db’s own CV database which means you can peruse candidates that are looking for jobs and then contact them directly. If you understand what your target audience is reading/browsing then you can target this area but remember, the vast majority of people are not just working for money; it’s about work environment, the people they will be working with, additional training and the ability to move forward in their careers. If you understand what your target audience is really looking for then you can start to individually bespoke your offering to their needs. It's quid pro quo - you give them what they want and in return they give you more of what you want to include longevity and loyalty.
All of this may sound a bit daunting and if you have neither the time nor the inclination then I would suggest you contact a good generalist recruiter who will probably charge you quite a bit but at least you will get the right people in front of you and be able to get some sort of refund (usually 3 months) if the person doesn’t work out.

I hope this helps you a little and may I wish you every success in your future business.

[Hawkman]

I think a lot of problems is how they are educated here with reference to "the everybody must pass at school" problem.

Have had Thai employees who have joined at our company with their business degree, who were expecting a management position and would leave in just a couple of weeks as they couldn't see management positions coming up and each one of the girls would never ever be management material, more interested in their nails and using Line and moaning about the work being boring while the boys have been too shy and quiet to communicate.

Not all are the same, but I do think it's a problem here. They are expecting too much. Though that criticism could easily be applied to the population around the world as a whole.

[stupot1952]

I will do it living in pattaya please send details been a transport manager hgv driver owner driver own business in uk

[wonder6281]

I'm more than able to work for 30+K per month. I Have the right extension of stay and tired of sitting a t home all day when I could be earning a few extra baht!

[WilliamCave]

I think it is like other places also not just here .

I am a supervisor usually in the refineries with numerous trade skills .

When I help look for potential recruits the problem is most of the good workers already have good jobs

Most people that work hard care about there job they do etc already have work they are not looking

[watcharacters]

The labor market is a market, which means the market sets the price. If no one accepts the OP's offer it must therefore be too low, assuming that his adertising is effective at reaching his target group. Thailand claims to have close to full employment, which stories like this encourage me to believe may actually be true. The Thai economy is slowing down, but not contracting yet. So, it is apparently still the case that workers are choosy.

Sorry but you make me laugh.

Bank employees are on 15 k per month .

Hotel managers are on 30k per month

Office staff are on 15-20k per month , but in your baseless opinion OP does not offer enough.

If OP offered 100k per month , rest assured he will have same unqualified people coming for interview.

I once ran an experiment offering 40k per month for a 9k per month job.

The same type applied , I chose the best one and guess how long she lasted ? 1 day is the answer.

Why? Because lazy ass thought learning company rules was too hard

Hotel managers are on 30k per month

This must be guesthouse managers with a few rooms only.

F&B Manager: Around 65-80,000B per month

Sales & Marketing Manager 70-120,000B per month

Residence Manager: 120,000B per month

General Manager: 150-450,000B per month

I am talking about 4-5 star hotels, both Thai or foreign brands.

A three star hotel would be minus 25%.

Also I disagree, not all Thais are lazy.

I am a consultant to many companies (all farang owned) and they have a work force of between 150 - 3000 staffs.

They pay premium and most of their staffs are on average 10 years already at the company.

Thais want to work for large companies and the best of the pack ends up in those companies.

.

Those are impressive figures you list!

[Mudcrab]

Finding the kind of staff the OP describes is a real headache. We've had nothing but problems this year with staff until we finally found an excellent employee who is Thai but grew up and was educated in the UK, fluent in both languages, can think for herself and has lots of initiative.

Without sounding disrespectful, the member of staff I'm talking about could probably do the job of two or three Thai staff, can turn up for work on time and doesn't do a runner after pay day.

Earlier this year we wasted more than 6 months hiring and being given the run around by Thai graphic designers. We took on 3 in total. 2 simply lied about their level of expertise and were calling themselves graphic designers but all they really knew how to do was touch up photos in Photoshop. The 3rd one was talented and a nice guy but he simply couldn't work to deadlines and was very unreliable.

We now outsource this to a guy in India who costs half the price of a Thai graphic designer and is twice as competant.

Without being too nosey...how do you continue to trade as a business in Thailand?

I know very little of IP tracking.

India sounds less of a hassle.

[Junkyarddog]

If your in Bangkok, I ran a company in Bangkok for 10 years. I got all my staff from one company. It's an employment agency named "Girl Friday". Sorry I don't have their phone number anymore.

[Mudcrab]

Since I'm running one of Thailand's largest executive search agencies hopefully I have a bit of insight that may help you.

Firstly there is no such thing as an impossible hire. I guarantee that the person you are looking is out there; it's just about how you find them, attract them and then retain them. Blaming the state of the market or the lack of available talent is universal; you hear it in London, in New York in Tokyo. There is ALWAYS a lack of great talent so the trick is to put yourself in as good a position as possible to ensure that you aren't overlooked by this talent.

The finding them is the most challenging and is why many companies use recruitment partners such as ourselves but if your budget doesn't stretch to agencies then you can do your own advertising (Jobs DB being the obvious) but the trick here is to be creative and stand out from the crowd. I don't know the specifics of what you are looking for but all candidates are looking for more than ‘just a job’ and with so much competition for English speaking candidates, you really have to go to town on your USP’s.

As well as being an attractive advert you should also continually advertise which is very important when you are relying on hiring the same people time after time. The idea is that if you only advertise when you want the people, then you are limiting yourself to who applies at the time rather than continuously advertising and 'grazing' for the best people. Candidates apply to jobs when it suits them so if you are restricting yourself to say 1 month of advertising, you are missing 11 months of applicants.

The next stage is attracting and that takes into consideration salary (are you really competitive in the market, 30k sounds good but what are you comparing it to?), benefits and career progression. You really need to find your USP and if you don't have any, then may I suggest to start creating them. USP's come in many forms; it could be the type of work they will be doing, the office environment (working with like minded people etc), the chance to learn more skills or career advancement. Do a poll of your current people to see what they think is good about working at your company and even talk to people who left. If you always conduct an exit interview you will start to know what didn't work for that certain person and be able to adjust things for the future.

You can also get involved in Facebook campaigns and also pay for access to Jobs Db’s own CV database which means you can peruse candidates that are looking for jobs and then contact them directly. If you understand what your target audience is reading/browsing then you can target this area but remember, the vast majority of people are not just working for money; it’s about work environment, the people they will be working with, additional training and the ability to move forward in their careers. If you understand what your target audience is really looking for then you can start to individually bespoke your offering to their needs. It's quid pro quo - you give them what they want and in return they give you more of what you want to include longevity and loyalty.

All of this may sound a bit daunting and if you have neither the time nor the inclination then I would suggest you contact a good generalist recruiter who will probably charge you quite a bit but at least you will get the right people in front of you and be able to get some sort of refund (usually 3 months) if the person doesn’t work out.

I hope this helps you a little and may I wish you every success in your future business.

and sometimes it is a simple as stating the job, the salary and the location

trust me I have worked for multinational;s and transnationals......and without fail the fail the initial "Vetting' is given to some graduate (yes I'm sorry to say) straight out of Uni.for the first with a degree in possibly Psychology or Human Relations/ or blah blah blah...but they are qualified.

In the real world I have hire people after I have met them. A bit of paper saying something and the reality is very different.

Just my two bobs worth.

[Emster23]

Perhaps you listed duties to perform in the job, which implies that the job might involve what is known in the West as "work". That will put a real damper on potential employees list.

[BKKdreaming]

people in West would also like a job with good pay and little work

does taking a job with a small company like the OPs help or hurt your chances of later getting a job later at a Multinational company ?

does job experience matter where you get it ?

[realenglish1]

Part of the problem is the time of the year Most do not want to make a move until later in the new year because

they will be getting bonuses I went through this before You will find someone I am sure

[richard peters]

Several years ago, I got my International Businssman friend two very good middle aged women to apply and they were both excellent office managers, but they have since moved on for various reasons. If you get stuck I can give you their E-mails or contact them myself, but give me some basic job details first. ( E-mail me on [email protected] )

Edited November 21, 2014 by richard peters

[bkk_mike]

people in West would also like a job with good pay and little work

does taking a job with a small company like the OPs help or hurt your chances of later getting a job later at a Multinational company ?

does job experience matter where you get it ?

My first two jobs were with companies with less than 20 people. Five years at the first, where the technology they used ended up getting me employed in several huge multinationals when they moved to the same technology.

(The second wasn't as useful technically, but it was an HR consultancy where I was one of the programmers, and working with psychologists all day definitely helped my interviewing skills.)

I think the same is true in Thailand, although there's probably more of a need to know someone already working in the multinational here to get an initial interview.

[jacksam]

Is this another troll post? ...Sent OP Contact details for top Thai office manager. Yes had reply for her cell number. Must be very busy chap.

[ldnguy]

The labor market is a market, which means the market sets the price. If no one accepts the OP's offer it must therefore be too low, assuming that his adertising is effective at reaching his target group. Thailand claims to have close to full employment, which stories like this encourage me to believe may actually be true. The Thai economy is slowing down, but not contracting yet. So, it is apparently still the case that workers are choosy.

Sorry but you make me laugh.

Bank employees are on 15 k per month .

Hotel managers are on 30k per month

Office staff are on 15-20k per month , but in your baseless opinion OP does not offer enough.

If OP offered 100k per month , rest assured he will have same unqualified people coming for interview.

I once ran an experiment offering 40k per month for a 9k per month job.

The same type applied , I chose the best one and guess how long she lasted ? 1 day is the answer.

Why? Because lazy ass thought learning company rules was too hard

I think it is you that's wrong. Maybe to most people 15K at a big bank is better than 30K at what they think is a small foreign employer. Maybe they think they have prospects of moving up the career ladder at bank but none at this company. If he's reaching people and hey say no to 30K, then obviously it's not enough to attract them. But it might be more than money. What else is the OP offering? A bank employee might have access to cheaper mortgages. Would the OP offer this.

I know Thai office workers with English that earn 40-50K baht a month and more. If someone already has a bank job, they might not want to risk work fora small company. Maybe it would take 40-50K to make it worth the risk.

[jacksam]

The labor market is a market, which means the market sets the price. If no one accepts the OP's offer it must therefore be too low, assuming that his adertising is effective at reaching his target group. Thailand claims to have close to full employment, which stories like this encourage me to believe may actually be true. The Thai economy is slowing down, but not contracting yet. So, it is apparently still the case that workers are choosy.

Sorry but you make me laugh.

Bank employees are on 15 k per month .

Hotel managers are on 30k per month

Office staff are on 15-20k per month , but in your baseless opinion OP does not offer enough.

If OP offered 100k per month , rest assured he will have same unqualified people coming for interview.

I once ran an experiment offering 40k per month for a 9k per month job.

The same type applied , I chose the best one and guess how long she lasted ? 1 day is the answer.

Why? Because lazy ass thought learning company rules was too hard

I think it is you that's wrong. Maybe to most people 15K at a big bank is better than 30K at what they think is a small foreign employer. Maybe they think they have prospects of moving up the career ladder at bank but none at this company. If he's reaching people and hey say no to 30K, then obviously it's not enough to attract them. But it might be more than money. What else is the OP offering? A bank employee might have access to cheaper mortgages. Would the OP offer this.

I know Thai office workers with English that earn 40-50K baht a month and more. If someone already has a bank job, they might not want to risk work fora small company. Maybe it would take 40-50K to make it worth the risk.

You are out of touch with what people earn.

My previous Thai gf was brilliant in her job of running office of 8 staff. I used office and saw her in full flight. Has good qualifications and serious hard worker. One day off per 7. All for about 25k. Sent details to op and no contact. This is a w,,,,,,k

[ldnguy]

Finding the kind of staff the OP describes is a real headache. We've had nothing but problems this year with staff until we finally found an excellent employee who is Thai but grew up and was educated in the UK, fluent in both languages, can think for herself and has lots of initiative.

Without sounding disrespectful, the member of staff I'm talking about could probably do the job of two or three Thai staff, can turn up for work on time and doesn't do a runner after pay day.

Earlier this year we wasted more than 6 months hiring and being given the run around by Thai graphic designers. We took on 3 in total. 2 simply lied about their level of expertise and were calling themselves graphic designers but all they really knew how to do was touch up photos in Photoshop. The 3rd one was talented and a nice guy but he simply couldn't work to deadlines and was very unreliable.

We now outsource this to a guy in India who costs half the price of a Thai graphic designer and is twice as competant.

So you hired them without testing their skills. That makes it your fault not theirs.

[otocheater]

Good offered but I got working contract already. Any part time?

:-)

Edited November 21, 2014 by otocheater

[Nepal4me]

Your post is confusing. You and I did have a back and forth by pm. I did talk to the lady you suggested.

Is this another troll post? ...Sent OP Contact details for top Thai office manager. Yes had reply for her cell number. Must be very busy chap.

[jacksam]

The labor market is a market, which means the market sets the price. If no one accepts the OP's offer it must therefore be too low, assuming that his adertising is effective at reaching his target group. Thailand claims to have close to full employment, which stories like this encourage me to believe may actually be true. The Thai economy is slowing down, but not contracting yet. So, it is apparently still the case that workers are choosy.

Sorry but you make me laugh.

Bank employees are on 15 k per month .

Hotel managers are on 30k per month

Office staff are on 15-20k per month , but in your baseless opinion OP does not offer enough.

If OP offered 100k per month , rest assured he will have same unqualified people coming for interview.

I once ran an experiment offering 40k per month for a 9k per month job.

The same type applied , I chose the best one and guess how long she lasted ? 1 day is the answer.

Why? Because lazy ass thought learning company rules was too hard

I think it is you that's wrong. Maybe to most people 15K at a big bank is better than 30K at what they think is a small foreign employer. Maybe they think they have prospects of moving up the career ladder at bank but none at this company. If he's reaching people and hey say no to 30K, then obviously it's not enough to attract them. But it might be more than money. What else is the OP offering? A bank employee might have access to cheaper mortgages. Would the OP offer this.

I know Thai office workers with English that earn 40-50K baht a month and more. If someone already has a bank job, they might not want to risk work fora small company. Maybe it would take 40-50K to make it worth the risk.

You are out of touch with what people earn.

My previous Thai gf was brilliant in her job of running office of 8 staff. I used office and saw her in full flight. Has good qualifications and serious hard worker. One day off per 7. All for about 25k. Sent details to op and no contact. This is a w,,,,,,k

[konying]

The labor market is a market, which means the market sets the price. If no one accepts the OP's offer it must therefore be too low, assuming that his adertising is effective at reaching his target group. Thailand claims to have close to full employment, which stories like this encourage me to believe may actually be true. The Thai economy is slowing down, but not contracting yet. So, it is apparently still the case that workers are choosy.

Sorry but you make me laugh.

Bank employees are on 15 k per month .

Hotel managers are on 30k per month

Office staff are on 15-20k per month , but in your baseless opinion OP does not offer enough.

If OP offered 100k per month , rest assured he will have same unqualified people coming for interview.

I once ran an experiment offering 40k per month for a 9k per month job.

The same type applied , I chose the best one and guess how long she lasted ? 1 day is the answer.

Why? Because lazy ass thought learning company rules was too hard

I think it is you that's wrong. Maybe to most people 15K at a big bank is better than 30K at what they think is a small foreign employer. Maybe they think they have prospects of moving up the career ladder at bank but none at this company. If he's reaching people and hey say no to 30K, then obviously it's not enough to attract them. But it might be more than money. What else is the OP offering? A bank employee might have access to cheaper mortgages. Would the OP offer this.

I know Thai office workers with English that earn 40-50K baht a month and more. If someone already has a bank job, they might not want to risk work fora small company. Maybe it would take 40-50K to make it worth the risk.

I suggest you read OP again

OP clearly said he has a certain criteria and he can not get applicants to meet his criteria.

I am sure you know many workers who speak fluent English and get paid double the going rates, only for some reason hardly anyone ever meets those and every where you go, hardly anyone speaks decent English.

Bank employee has access to cheaper mortgages? well school teachers have access to even cheaper loans, so what?!

What point are you trying to make?

OP is offering a decent salary, decent enough to be more than a large number of people get after working in the company for 15 years.

I just interviewed a 47 year old woman, who has worked at Marriot for 15 years in reservations and her salary after 15 years was 9000 baht.

Not only she has a written reference but i also called to get a verbal reference and all was confirmed. Happy to post for you the reference from Marriot.

So what is your point? OP should offer 60K starting salary? or provide cheaper mortgages?

Banks do have limited vacancy's so i doubt they could employ ALL applicants

Also how many bank tellers or managers have you met who speak excellent english? keeping in mind to work in the bank one must have bachelor degree.

Edited November 21, 2014 by konying

[jacksam]

Apologies to OP. Think I've been trying to assist too often with zero uptake. Good luck with future employ that suits.

[ldnguy]

You already hitting the right places, the fact that you not getting employees has little to do with where you been advertising.

This is a problem nationwide.

I advertise for staff 365 days per year and always short staffed.

I advertise for ability to speak some English, they show up and can not speak any.

I advertise people with experience ONLY, but they show up with no experience at all.

I advertise for the night shift, they show up wanting to work ONLY morning.

Just keep on advertising, but to make you feel better, i am so short staffed, that i have been working 20 hour per day for the past 3 weeks and no prospect

of stopping, as no one is showing up for interview, and the ones who do show up, are beyond useless.

"I advertise people with experience ONLY, but they show up with no experience at all"

Yes, but this is a universal complaint for job seekers. If people only want employees with prior experience it greatly limits the opportunity for those seeking work, particularly young people, to ever acquire any useful experience.

Depending on the nature of the work you might offer a 2 or 3 month trial period at reduced salary while they gain experience, with the prospect of a bonus & higher salary for those who stick with it and develop the skills you want. Sometimes starting out with someone who has no experience ... there's no guarantee experience gained elsewhere includes the sort of work habits or methodology you value ... may prove better for you in the long run.

I would nominate you for nobble prize if i could.

When company advertises for people with experience, it means just that-people with experience, it does not mean anything else but that.

When company advertisers no experience required or does not mention anything about the experience then one can assume they could apply.

Welcome to the real world not fantasy internet world

What they say doesn't mean anything. I've had many jobs in my life that required a certain level of experience that I din't have. I lied or talked my way into those jobs and know others that have done the same. You need to show a little initiative and aim a little higher to get a good job, not just give up at the first little hurdle (no experience). Obviously some jobs really do need experience (brain surgeon), but many employers claim experience is need when all that's actually needed is a little common sense and a few hours to learn. For many office jobs, common sense and a will to learn and get on is far more valuable than experience but without common sense, etc.