Obama offer to 5m illegal migrants

[up-country_sinclair]

It appears that the GOP will not be putting up a fight over executive amnesty...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/11/22/Michelle%20Bachmann-GOP-Will-Not-Resist-Obama-Executive-Amnesty

1. Is that what they're calling it now? "executive amnesty". It's like "newspeak" in 1984.

And of course Republican leadership is not going to "resist" because they know they have no legal footing.

[chuckd]

I did google "Obama amnesty" to look at those web sites. I presume your objection is most of them are conservative in nature.

No, not at all. I grew up reading US News and World Report, and right now I'm looking at a copy of the The Economist on my coffee table. The majority of the websites are not conservative. They're extreme right wing: Breitbart, WND, TownHall, etc... These websites are all about uploading clickbait for partisans so their ad revenues increase. "Obama and Amnesty" is probably the most successful piece of clickbait on conservative websites these days.

the way he has accomplished it is by the use of prosecutorial discretion. He has not used the word amnesty that I can find, other than to deny his executive order is really amnesty. He has simply drawn a line in the sand and said...anybody that arrived in the US before 2009 is eligible for relief from prosecution for their acts of illegal immigration.

Well, I'm not sure what we're debating, because you're making a lot of sense here.

Let me know if you can find any other definition of amnesty as it relates to immigration.

As I posted earlier, in the context of immigration (in particular "illegal immigration"), amnesty specifically refers to the granting of citizenship. Prosecutorial discretion is not the same as granting amnesty. Sorry, but it just isn't.

"amnesty specifically refers to the granting of citizenship."

I give up. You win.

We now have 5+ million new citizens of the United States of America.

Now we can save all those millions of dollars we were going to use to print all those millions of green cards for people to legally reside in the US and apply for citizenship after their waiting period.

That citizenship ceremony is gonna be a big one.

PS: I never said prosecutorial discretion was the same as amnesty. Obama is using prosecutorial discretion as the back up for his executive order...instead of amnesty. Neither of them grant instant citizenship.

I do believe his executive order may have provided a path to citizenship, but citizenship was not granted by his executive order.

[Ulysses G.]

Oh, god. Is that going to be the excuse for not taking this court? It will take too long?

For God's sake, just admit its within his authority as president and move on.

I don't think it is. I think it is unconstitutional. If it does not go to court, it will be purely for political considerations. That would be the sneaky little maneuver that I mentioned before.

By the way, Michele Bachmann is somewhat of a loon. I really doubt if the GOP leadership is confiding their plans to her.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Publicus]

I did google "Obama amnesty" to look at those web sites. I presume your objection is most of them are conservative in nature.

No, not at all. I grew up reading US News and World Report, and right now I'm looking at a copy of the The Economist on my coffee table. The majority of the websites are not conservative. They're extreme right wing: Breitbart, WND, TownHall, etc... These websites are all about uploading clickbait for partisans so their ad revenues increase. "Obama and Amnesty" is probably the most successful piece of clickbait on conservative websites these days.

<<snip>>

Let me know if you can find any other definition of amnesty as it relates to immigration.

As I posted earlier, in the context of immigration (in particular "illegal immigration"), amnesty specifically refers to the granting of citizenship. Prosecutorial discretion is not the same as granting amnesty. Sorry, but it just isn't.

"amnesty specifically refers to the granting of citizenship."

I give up. You win.

We now have 5+ million new citizens of the United States of America.

Now we can save all those millions of dollars we were going to use to print all those millions of green cards for people to legally reside in the US and apply for citizenship after their waiting period.

That citizenship ceremony is gonna be a big one.

PS: I never said prosecutorial discretion was the same as amnesty. Obama is using prosecutorial discretion as the back up for his executive order...instead of amnesty. Neither of them grant instant citizenship.

I do believe his executive order may have provided a path to citizenship, but citizenship was not granted by his executive order.

I never said prosecutorial discretion was the same as amnesty. Obama is using prosecutorial discretion as the back up for his executive order...instead of amnesty. Neither of them grant instant citizenship.

I do believe his executive order may have provided a path to citizenship, but citizenship was not granted by his executive order.

I didn't see it was alleged you said that but your making your position clear on the issue is welcomed and is respected. Prez Obama's executive order did almost exactly as you now say and confirm that it did.

Of the several concession statements coming forward tonight in respect of the thread topic I'd have to say yours is the most accurate and to the point with the least amount of 'our day is coming' rhetoric from your side.

So that would pretty much wrap it up then for at least several of you guys.

Meaning, yes, the executive order is legal, constitutional, a matter of public policy under the purview of the president, that it is not an amnesty and doesn't remotely resemble an immigration amnesty, that the executive order was compelled by the long term inaction by Congress on the issue, and that it resolves for the next ten or so years serious immigration issues involving legal (documented) and illegal (undocumented) immigrants.

President Barack Obama signs two presidential memoranda associated with his actions on immigration in his office on Air Force One as he arrives at McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas, Friday, Nov. 21, 2014, before traveling to Del Sol High School to speak about the steps he will be taking on immigration

(AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster)The Associate

Edited November 23, 2014 by Publicus

[samran]

as it relates to immigration.

As I posted earlier, in the context of immigration (in particular "illegal immigration"), amnesty specifically refers to the granting of citizenship. Prosecutorial discretion is not the same as granting amnesty. Sorry, but it just isn't.

"amnesty specifically refers to the granting of citizenship."

I give up. You win.

We now have 5+ million new citizens of the United States of America.

Now we can save all those millions of dollars we were going to use to print all those millions of green cards for people to legally reside in the US and apply for citizenship after their waiting period.

That citizenship ceremony is gonna be a big one.

PS: I never said prosecutorial discretion was the same as amnesty. Obama is using prosecutorial discretion as the back up for his executive order...instead of amnesty. Neither of them grant instant citizenship.

I do believe his executive order may have provided a path to citizenship, but citizenship was not granted by his executive order.

You are naïve to believe that citizenship will not be granted relatively soon..

Maybe just in time to vote for Hillary?

Before or after you've had your revolution?

[Publicus]

The Great Fear of the Republican party and of the fringe radical right wing of the United States -- a woman Democratic party president and a dynamic young and articulare Hispanic vice president who is the former mayor of San Antonio, Texas.

The Republican party and its tea party along with the far right wingnuts everywhere are going down faster than a Russian submarine full of rocks.

Hillary Grooming Julian Castro to Become 2016 Running Mate

Hillary Clinton, Julian Castro (Wikipedia public domain)

Rumor has it that Hillary Clinton is grooming HUD Secretary, Julian Castro to run alongside Clinton in 2016 in her bid for the White House.

The rising Democratic star has long been considered a potential running mate for Clinton or another Democratic presidential candidate in 2016, but until recently he didn’t have the kind of national profile and experience that is generally associated with the nation’s second in command.

That all changed when President Barack Obama nominated him as HUD secretary in May, a position he was confirmed for in August.

http://pumabydesign001.com/2014/08/18/hillary-grooming-julian-castro-to-become-2016-running-mate/

The Republican party considers it has a couple of strong Hispanic senators and a couple of Hispanic governors, so this jockeying for votes has only just begun. Round One goes to Prez Obama which one can say is good for the D party ticket in 2016.

The Clintons break bread and build ties with Julian Castro, stoking talk of a 2016 ticket

The Clinton-Castro relationship dates at least to 2012, when the former president and the Castro brothers appeared together at a political fundraiser in Los Angeles, shortly after Julian Castro’s DNC keynote speech. In his remarks at the event, Clinton suggested that Julian would one day be president and that the Castro brothers were building a legacy of public service similar to that of the Kennedys, according to a close associate of both camps who was in attendance.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-clintons-break-bread-and-build-ties-with-julian-castro-stoking-talk-of-a-2016-ticket/2014/08/14/ad57c662-23c3-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html

[Jingthing]

Castro is a very impressive young man! And I don't mean Fidel. This Castro is also ... very significantly in American Latino politics NOT CUBANO like yuck Rubio and super yuck Cruz! It would be kind of a Dan Quayle play but this time someone with brains. Could make Texas and Georgia competitive for Hillary. A Hillary win would also be a TWOFER. First woman prez, first Latino Vice Prez.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Jingthing

[chuckd]

Let me know if you can find any other definition of amnesty as it relates to immigration.

As I posted earlier, in the context of immigration (in particular "illegal immigration"), amnesty specifically refers to the granting of citizenship. Prosecutorial discretion is not the same as granting amnesty. Sorry, but it just isn't.

"amnesty specifically refers to the granting of citizenship."

I give up. You win.

We now have 5+ million new citizens of the United States of America.

Now we can save all those millions of dollars we were going to use to print all those millions of green cards for people to legally reside in the US and apply for citizenship after their waiting period.

That citizenship ceremony is gonna be a big one.

PS: I never said prosecutorial discretion was the same as amnesty. Obama is using prosecutorial discretion as the back up for his executive order...instead of amnesty. Neither of them grant instant citizenship.

I do believe his executive order may have provided a path to citizenship, but citizenship was not granted by his executive order.

I never said prosecutorial discretion was the same as amnesty. Obama is using prosecutorial discretion as the back up for his executive order...instead of amnesty. Neither of them grant instant citizenship.

I do believe his executive order may have provided a path to citizenship, but citizenship was not granted by his executive order.

I didn't see it was alleged you said that but your making your position clear on the issue is welcomed and is respected. Prez Obama's executive order did almost exactly as you now say and confirm that it did.

Of the several concession statements coming forward tonight in respect of the thread topic I'd have to say yours is the most accurate and to the point with the least amount of 'our day is coming' rhetoric from your side.

So that would pretty much wrap it up then for at least several of you guys.

Meaning, yes, the executive order is legal, constitutional, a matter of public policy under the purview of the president, that it is not an amnesty and doesn't remotely resemble an immigration amnesty, that the executive order was compelled by the long term inaction by Congress on the issue, and that it resolves for the next ten or so years serious immigration issues involving legal (documented) and illegal (undocumented) immigrants.

President Barack Obama signs two presidential memoranda associated with his actions on immigration in his office on Air Force One as he arrives at McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas, Friday, Nov. 21, 2014, before traveling to Del Sol High School to speak about the steps he will be taking on immigration

(AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster)The Associate

"Meaning, yes, the executive order is legal, constitutional, a matter of public policy under the purview of the president, that it is not an amnesty and doesn't remotely resemble an immigration amnesty, that the executive order was compelled by the long term inaction by Congress on the issue, and that it resolves for the next ten or so years serious immigration issues involving legal (documented) and illegal (undocumented) immigrants.

If this summary is what you think I said, you are a little too enthusiastic with your interpretation of my words.

Yes, the President (never liked the word Prez as it is rude to the office holder) clearly has the authority to offer amnesty and certainly has the authority to offer prosecutorial discretion up to a limit.

The offering of amnesty absolves an individual, group or class of people from crimes of a certain nature that have already been committed. It does not offer any form of citizenship or other award. His argument for prosecutorial discretion calls on protection from prosecution for the 5 million or so he outlined in his Executive Order, which could also fit the description of an amnesty. So in my opinion, it does fit the description of an immigration amnesty. If there is no prosecution on the table, then all crimes committed concerning illegal immigration have been relieved. Ergo, an amnesty.

There is some discussion as to whether prosecutorial discretion can be used in a broad case such as this one. It is generally reserved to much smaller groups and individuals. Perhaps the courts will have to decide on this. It is over our collective pay grades on this forum.

I wouldn't say the Order was impelled by the inaction of anything. It was done for political reasons and for the possible enrichment of Obama's legacy, which at this point is probably paramount in his mind.

Technically it only resolves the situation until 20 January 2017. It can be undone as quickly as it was done. The stroke of a pen by the next President can do away with it.

Where I think Obama is in Constitutional hot water is found in Article II, Section 3, to wit:

...He shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed...

He hasn't exactly held up his end of the bargain on this part.

[chuckd]

Castro is a very impressive young man! And I don't mean Fidel. This Castro is also ... very significantly in American Latino politics NOT CUBANO like yuck Rubio and super yuck Cruz! It would be kind of a Dan Quayle play but this time someone with brains. Could make Texas and Georgia competitive for Hillary. A Hillary win would also be a TWOFER. First woman prez, first Latino Vice Prez.

Adding God to the Hillary ticket wouldn't help her in Texas.

Looks like they use the same photo-shop and dentist,

[Jingthing]

So you're sayin' Texans are Godless?

[chuckd]

Nope. Hillarylesser.

[F430murci]

I am a bit torn on this issue because my wife is an immigrant that came here for school and never left. I know so many Russian and Ukranian immigrants that work 2 or 3 jobs and do whatever they have to do to survive. Then I see so many lazy, food gorging pathetic losers from other countries not working and just living off the system. How do fix it without penalizing the decent? You don't, so just keep them all out unless they can show an ability to support themselves.

[NeverSure]

I dont quite buy the corporate interests theory. In a congress where members basically have more corporate sponsorship than your average NFL quarterback, if corporate interests wanted this the issue would have been settled years ago without a whimper.

Why is it so popular to be a lemming? I can't figure out where people get their ideas. Do they just make this stuff up because they want to believe it?

Prohibited Contributions

Corporations, Labor Organizations and National Banks

Government Contractors

Foreign Nationals

Cash Contributions

Contributions in the Name of Another

FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION

[Publicus]

Castro is a very impressive young man! And I don't mean Fidel. This Castro is also ... very significantly in American Latino politics NOT CUBANO like yuck Rubio and super yuck Cruz! It would be kind of a Dan Quayle play but this time someone with brains. Could make Texas and Georgia competitive for Hillary. A Hillary win would also be a TWOFER. First woman prez, first Latino Vice Prez.

....and then...the first Latino prez.....

Republicans are wrong to think their two Cuban-American senators Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio could win a national election. Cruz is extreme and harsh while Rubio is regarded as essentially still in college and still president of the political science club. Their two Hispanic governors are no-name women that would have to walk in Sarah Palin's shoes as their only predecessor. Only Rubio comes from a swing electoral state, the other three are from red states.

Rubio voted for immigration reform, Cruz voted against. Neither likes nor recognizes Cuba.

Majority of Americans Favor Ties With Cuba, Poll Finds

After more than a half-century of official United States hostility toward Cuba punctuated by a comprehensive trade embargo, a majority of Americans — and an even greater majority of Floridians, home to this country’s largest Cuban-American population — now favor normalizing relations or engaging more directly with the Cuban government, according to a nonpartisan survey.

The results of the survey, commissioned by the Atlantic Council, a prominent Washington research institution, and released on Tuesday, were described by the group as an unprecedented reflection of shifting American attitudes toward Cuba that confound some long-held assumptions, particularly about Cuban-American antipathy toward the government of Raúl Castro.

“This survey shows that the majority of Americans on both sides of the aisle are ready for a policy shift,” Peter Schechter and Jason Marczak, the top two executives at the Adrienne Arsht Latin America Center of the Atlantic Council, wrote in an introduction to the survey. “Most surprisingly, Floridians are even more supportive than an already supportive nation to incrementally or fully change course.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/11/world/americas/majority-of-americans-favor-ties-with-cuba-poll-finds.html?_r=0

[Publicus]

Congress granted citizenship to illegal aliens, Reagan did not veto the bill and allowed it to pass. Obama's sneaky little maneuver is not connected to a legitimate bill that made it through the system as required by the constitution.

Seems to me Reagan DID issue an EO that was not covered under existing law.

Congress’ amnesty was large—just shy of 3 million people—and it had the unanticipated effect of splitting up freshly-legalized parents from their illegally-present minor children who did not qualify for relief.

So Reagan, seeing this family unity problem that Congress had not anticipated or addressed when it granted amnesty to millions of parents, issued an executive order to defer the removal of children of the people who had applied for immigration amnesty under Congress’ new law. He allowed those children to remain in the United States while their parents’ applications for amnesty were pending. A few years later, Bush 41 extended this bit of administrative grace to these same children plus certain spouses of the aliens who had actually been granted immigration amnesty under Congress’ new law.

Congress, though it had desired to grant amnesty, had not considered and not included the spouses and children.

I don't remember if this caused a kerfuffle at the time or not.

Not a peep.

No problem at all.

Just as you'd expect.

[Publicus]

As I posted earlier, in the context of immigration (in particular "illegal immigration"), amnesty specifically refers to the granting of citizenship. Prosecutorial discretion is not the same as granting amnesty. Sorry, but it just isn't.

"amnesty specifically refers to the granting of citizenship."

I give up. You win.

We now have 5+ million new citizens of the United States of America.

Now we can save all those millions of dollars we were going to use to print all those millions of green cards for people to legally reside in the US and apply for citizenship after their waiting period.

That citizenship ceremony is gonna be a big one.

PS: I never said prosecutorial discretion was the same as amnesty. Obama is using prosecutorial discretion as the back up for his executive order...instead of amnesty. Neither of them grant instant citizenship.

I do believe his executive order may have provided a path to citizenship, but citizenship was not granted by his executive order.

I never said prosecutorial discretion was the same as amnesty. Obama is using prosecutorial discretion as the back up for his executive order...instead of amnesty. Neither of them grant instant citizenship.

I do believe his executive order may have provided a path to citizenship, but citizenship was not granted by his executive order.

I didn't see it was alleged you said that but your making your position clear on the issue is welcomed and is respected. Prez Obama's executive order did almost exactly as you now say and confirm that it did.

Of the several concession statements coming forward tonight in respect of the thread topic I'd have to say yours is the most accurate and to the point with the least amount of 'our day is coming' rhetoric from your side.

So that would pretty much wrap it up then for at least several of you guys.

Meaning, yes, the executive order is legal, constitutional, a matter of public policy under the purview of the president, that it is not an amnesty and doesn't remotely resemble an immigration amnesty, that the executive order was compelled by the long term inaction by Congress on the issue, and that it resolves for the next ten or so years serious immigration issues involving legal (documented) and illegal (undocumented) immigrants.

President Barack Obama signs two presidential memoranda associated with his actions on immigration in his office on Air Force One as he arrives at McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas, Friday, Nov. 21, 2014, before traveling to Del Sol High School to speak about the steps he will be taking on immigration

(AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster)The Associate

"Meaning, yes, the executive order is legal, constitutional, a matter of public policy under the purview of the president, that it is not an amnesty and doesn't remotely resemble an immigration amnesty, that the executive order was compelled by the long term inaction by Congress on the issue, and that it resolves for the next ten or so years serious immigration issues involving legal (documented) and illegal (undocumented) immigrants.

If this summary is what you think I said, you are a little too enthusiastic with your interpretation of my words.

Yes, the President (never liked the word Prez as it is rude to the office holder) clearly has the authority to offer amnesty and certainly has the authority to offer prosecutorial discretion up to a limit.

The offering of amnesty absolves an individual, group or class of people from crimes of a certain nature that have already been committed. It does not offer any form of citizenship or other award. His argument for prosecutorial discretion calls on protection from prosecution for the 5 million or so he outlined in his Executive Order, which could also fit the description of an amnesty. So in my opinion, it does fit the description of an immigration amnesty. If there is no prosecution on the table, then all crimes committed concerning illegal immigration have been relieved. Ergo, an amnesty.

There is some discussion as to whether prosecutorial discretion can be used in a broad case such as this one. It is generally reserved to much smaller groups and individuals. Perhaps the courts will have to decide on this. It is over our collective pay grades on this forum.

I wouldn't say the Order was impelled by the inaction of anything. It was done for political reasons and for the possible enrichment of Obama's legacy, which at this point is probably paramount in his mind.

Technically it only resolves the situation until 20 January 2017. It can be undone as quickly as it was done. The stroke of a pen by the next President can do away with it.

Where I think Obama is in Constitutional hot water is found in Article II, Section 3, to wit:

...He shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed...

He hasn't exactly held up his end of the bargain on this part.

What I wrote is what I think.

Everyone else knows I'm not anyone's speechwriter and I have my hands full besides in writing my own posts, so you can relax about it.

The executive order is further testimony that Prez Obama has done an excellent job in taking care that the laws be faithfully executed.

In contrast Republicans and their tea party bosses in the Congress have failed to provide laws in areas where the public specifically calls for laws, such as S-744 the comprehensive immigration reform bill enacted by the Senate 68-32 but ignored for two years by the Republican controlled House.

You mention the "next president." I can assure you that you won't get any different on immigration from Mme President than you got from Barack Obama, G.W. Bush, and RR himself.

[Publicus]

Castro is a very impressive young man! And I don't mean Fidel. This Castro is also ... very significantly in American Latino politics NOT CUBANO like yuck Rubio and super yuck Cruz! It would be kind of a Dan Quayle play but this time someone with brains. Could make Texas and Georgia competitive for Hillary. A Hillary win would also be a TWOFER. First woman prez, first Latino Vice Prez.

Adding God to the Hillary ticket wouldn't help her in Texas.

Looks like they use the same photo-shop and dentist,

That's because, and everyone knows, God is the original white male conservative Anglo-Saxon Protestant Republican rope carrying redneck.

I'm told it's in the Bible and that one only has to be able to read certain pages diagonally.

Kind of like reading an X that's already on the ballot when you get it in Texas.

Georgia too btw.

[NeverSure]

-snip-

You mention the "next president." I can assure you that you won't get any different on immigration from Mme President than you got from Barack Obama, G.W. Bush, and RR himself.

When EACH of those people was elected, the US didn't have as big of an illegal immigration problem, and more, it wasn't as widely realized how many of them were gangsters and making up a larger and larger percentage of the prison population.

20 years ago they came to the US looking for work and they did work and send money home.

Today they have learned how to game the system and Americans know that and are waking up.

Obama is busy assuring that no Democrat could possibly win the next presidential election.

Obama won both of his elections by just 51% of the vote. 49% didn't want him either time. Now he's one of the least popular presidents ever, and still digging a hole.

In the recent election the Democrat ass-kicking was so bad that only the blind could fail to see what's happening.

After the next presidential election the US will have a Republican Congress and a Republican President and the Democrats have no one to blame but themselves.

Edited November 23, 2014 by NeverSure

[lannarebirth]

Obama on immigration Executive Order legality:

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/19/watch-obama-admit-that-obamas-immigration-executive-order-is-illegal/

Government's spurious justification:

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/21/4-things-you-should-know-about-dojs-legal-justification-for-obamas-amnesty/

Obama Puts The Republic Out Of Its Misery:

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/21/obama-puts-the-republic-out-of-its-misery/

[Publicus]

Obama on immigration Executive Order legality:

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/19/watch-obama-admit-that-obamas-immigration-executive-order-is-illegal/

Government's spurious justification:

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/21/4-things-you-should-know-about-dojs-legal-justification-for-obamas-amnesty/

Obama Puts The Republic Out Of Its Misery:

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/21/obama-puts-the-republic-out-of-its-misery/

Fringe media that every time take a hard right. so many times a hard right they keep cutting corners inside a self-contained box.

The post consists entirely of far out fringe fiction and fantasy so that's what I address in reply.

[NeverSure]

Obama on immigration Executive Order legality:

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/19/watch-obama-admit-that-obamas-immigration-executive-order-is-illegal/

Government's spurious justification:

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/21/4-things-you-should-know-about-dojs-legal-justification-for-obamas-amnesty/

Obama Puts The Republic Out Of Its Misery:

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/21/obama-puts-the-republic-out-of-its-misery/

Fringe media that every time take a hard right. so many times a hard right they keep cutting corners inside a self-contained box.

The post consists entirely of far out fringe fiction and fantasy so that's what I address in reply.

Shoot the messenger when you don't know enough to address the content.

[CMNightRider]

Castro is a very impressive young man! And I don't mean Fidel. This Castro is also ... very significantly in American Latino politics NOT CUBANO like yuck Rubio and super yuck Cruz! It would be kind of a Dan Quayle play but this time someone with brains. Could make Texas and Georgia competitive for Hillary. A Hillary win would also be a TWOFER. First woman prez, first Latino Vice Prez.

Adding God to the Hillary ticket wouldn't help her in Texas.

Looks like they use the same photo-shop and dentist,

That's because, and everyone knows, God is the original white male conservative Anglo-Saxon Protestant Republican rope carrying redneck.

I'm told it's in the Bible and that one only has to be able to read certain pages diagonally.

Kind of like reading an X that's already on the ballot when you get it in Texas.

Georgia too btw.

This is unbelievable, besides your utter distain for law enforcement, and conservatives (normal common sense people) you even hate God.

[lannarebirth]

Obama on immigration Executive Order legality:

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/19/watch-obama-admit-that-obamas-immigration-executive-order-is-illegal/

Government's spurious justification:

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/21/4-things-you-should-know-about-dojs-legal-justification-for-obamas-amnesty/

Obama Puts The Republic Out Of Its Misery:

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/21/obama-puts-the-republic-out-of-its-misery/

Fringe media that every time take a hard right. so many times a hard right they keep cutting corners inside a self-contained box.

The post consists entirely of far out fringe fiction and fantasy so that's what I address in reply.

That isn't fringe media. It's a site that advocates for following the rule of law as laid out in the constitution . It is not partisan in any way. It speaks to the law not politics.

[Ulysses G.]

Congress granted citizenship to illegal aliens, Reagan did not veto the bill and allowed it to pass. Obama's sneaky little maneuver is not connected to a legitimate bill that made it through the system as required by the constitution.

Seems to me Reagan DID issue an EO that was not covered under existing law.

Congress amnesty was largejust shy of 3 million peopleand it had the unanticipated effect of splitting up freshly-legalized parents from their illegally-present minor children who did not qualify for relief.

So Reagan, seeing this family unity problem that Congress had not anticipated or addressed when it granted amnesty to millions of parents, issued an executive order to defer the removal of children of the people who had applied for immigration amnesty under Congress new law. He allowed those children to remain in the United States while their parents applications for amnesty were pending. A few years later, Bush 41 extended this bit of administrative grace to these same children plus certain spouses of the aliens who had actually been granted immigration amnesty under Congress new law.

Congress, though it had desired to grant amnesty, had not considered and not included the spouses and children.

I don't remember if this caused a kerfuffle at the time or not.

Not a peep.

No problem at all.

Just as you'd expect.

Of course. It was tied to existing legislation passed by congress - as the constitution requires.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[chuckd]

Congress granted citizenship to illegal aliens, Reagan did not veto the bill and allowed it to pass. Obama's sneaky little maneuver is not connected to a legitimate bill that made it through the system as required by the constitution.

Seems to me Reagan DID issue an EO that was not covered under existing law.

Congress’ amnesty was large—just shy of 3 million people—and it had the unanticipated effect of splitting up freshly-legalized parents from their illegally-present minor children who did not qualify for relief.

So Reagan, seeing this family unity problem that Congress had not anticipated or addressed when it granted amnesty to millions of parents, issued an executive order to defer the removal of children of the people who had applied for immigration amnesty under Congress’ new law. He allowed those children to remain in the United States while their parents’ applications for amnesty were pending. A few years later, Bush 41 extended this bit of administrative grace to these same children plus certain spouses of the aliens who had actually been granted immigration amnesty under Congress’ new law.

Congress, though it had desired to grant amnesty, had not considered and not included the spouses and children.

I don't remember if this caused a kerfuffle at the time or not.

Not a peep.

No problem at all.

Just as you'd expect.

Perhaps it could have been "peeped" if a link had been provided.

Having said that, it would appear the Reagan amnesty was issued to keep families together, which would have been separated under a recent (at that time) law. The Bush amnesty extended the Reagan one.

Would you have been in favor of separating families then? Maybe you "evolved". That seems to be a progressive liberal thing-to-do these days.

[kingalfred]

all these republican extremists (basically the whole party) can enjoy their day in the sun.The current, second, third generation immigrant voters will never forget as their voting numbers increase.The Repubs will see how hard it is to gerrymander their way to winning.

[boomerangutang]

The Obama plan is another nail in the coffin of a 'unified' America.

White anger will boil over at some point.

Secession or outright civil war...or both.

Liberals and conservatives have been moving apart for several decades now.

The twain will never meet again this side of eternity.

Come to think of it, Obama and the liberals have offered the 'Right' an opportunity.

Hopefully it will galvanize even the most naïve whites that the America they knew is over or will be in the next few decades.

Buy guns and ammo.

wow, I'm glad people like you are a minority. Every white person has mixed blood, just like every black, brown, yellow and whatever shade of their skin. I'm blonde/blue eyed, and when I come out of the sun, my arm skin is darker than most Thais. If you want to shoot things, go get a pig carcass and hang it up in back of your trailer. Far better to get active for environmental issues, than for self-fueled anger about people who don't have freckles.

[kingalfred]

The Obama plan is another nail in the coffin of a 'unified' America.

White anger will boil over at some point.

Secession or outright civil war...or both.

Liberals and conservatives have been moving apart for several decades now.

The twain will never meet again this side of eternity.

Come to think of it, Obama and the liberals have offered the 'Right' an opportunity.

Hopefully it will galvanize even the most naïve whites that the America they knew is over or will be in the next few decades.

Buy guns and ammo.

wow, I'm glad people like you are a minority. Every white person has mixed blood, just like every black, brown, yellow and whatever shade of their skin. I'm blonde/blue eyed, and when I come out of the sun, my arm skin is darker than most Thais. If you want to shoot things, go get a pig carcass and hang it up in back of your trailer. Far better to get active for environmental issues, than for self-fueled anger about people who don't have freckles.

there a substantial minority of racists in the US,many of whom have a voice in congress, but they will be marginalised as they become a minority in their own right.

[Publicus]

Seems to me Reagan DID issue an EO that was not covered under existing law.

Congress amnesty was largejust shy of 3 million peopleand it had the unanticipated effect of splitting up freshly-legalized parents from their illegally-present minor children who did not qualify for relief.

So Reagan, seeing this family unity problem that Congress had not anticipated or addressed when it granted amnesty to millions of parents, issued an executive order to defer the removal of children of the people who had applied for immigration amnesty under Congress new law. He allowed those children to remain in the United States while their parents applications for amnesty were pending. A few years later, Bush 41 extended this bit of administrative grace to these same children plus certain spouses of the aliens who had actually been granted immigration amnesty under Congress new law.

Congress, though it had desired to grant amnesty, had not considered and not included the spouses and children.

I don't remember if this caused a kerfuffle at the time or not.

Not a peep.

No problem at all.

Just as you'd expect.

Of course. It was tied to existing legislation passed by congress - as the constitution requires.

The president's action addresses Title 8 of the United States Code of laws that regulate Aliens & Nationality. Accordingly, the president is seeing to it that the laws of the land are faithfully executed, same as Bush did, same as Clinton did, same as old man Bush did, same as Reagan did, same as Ford did, same as Johnson and Kennedy did etc.

As I'd noted in a previous post, the Immigration Act of 1965 that was initiated by Prez Kennedy placed a strong emphasis on immigrant family unity and reunification, which is the authority used by Reagan and G.W. Bush when each issued an executive order to compensate for Congress' overlooking or inaction in respect of family unity and reunification in the new laws of the moment and in the amendments to existing laws.

In this particular instance, Prez Obama as ceo of the executive branch is using his authority and obligation under the constitution to see that these existing laws are faithfully executed by those he has designated to implement the public policies he establishes and pursues within the United States Code of laws, Title 8, Aliens & Nationality.

This is exactly and precisely what presidents get elected and paid to do.

U.S. Code: Title 8 - ALIENS AND NATIONALITY

• CHAPTER 1—GENERAL PROVISIONS (§ 1_to_18)
• CHAPTER 2—ELECTIVE FRANCHISE (§ 31,_32)
• CHAPTER 3—CIVIL RIGHTS (§§ 41_to_43–53_to_56)
• CHAPTER 4—FREEDMEN (§ 61_to_65)
• CHAPTER 5—ALIEN OWNERSHIP OF LAND (§§ 71_to_78–83_to_86)
• CHAPTER 6—IMMIGRATION (§§ 100,_101–241_to_246)
• CHAPTER 7—EXCLUSION OF CHINESE (§§ 261–299)
• CHAPTER 8—THE COOLY TRADE (§ 331_to_339)
• CHAPTER 9—MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS (§ 351_to_416)
• CHAPTER 10—ALIEN REGISTRATION (§ 451_to_460)
• CHAPTER 11—NATIONALITY (§§ 501_to_504–1001_to_1006)
• CHAPTER 12—IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY (§§ 1101–1537)
• CHAPTER 13—IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE (§§ 1551–1574)
• CHAPTER 14—RESTRICTING WELFARE AND PUBLIC BENEFITS FOR ALIENS (§§ 1601–1646)
• CHAPTER 15—ENHANCED BORDER SECURITY AND VISA ENTRY REFORM (§§ 1701–1778)

http://www.law.corne...u/uscode/text/8

President Obama Issued a Directive, Not an “Executive Order” or “New Law”

While folks are free to criticize the President, they should at least strive for accuracy. The President did not create a new law, sign an executive order or grant anyone citizenship or amnesty, he merely directed DHS to exercise discretion to grant deferred action to qualified immigrant youth—an action that is well within his power as President..

http://immigrationimpact.com/2012/06/19/president-obama-issued-a-memo-not-an-executive-order/

[Publicus]

The Obama plan is another nail in the coffin of a 'unified' America.

White anger will boil over at some point.

Secession or outright civil war...or both.

Liberals and conservatives have been moving apart for several decades now.

The twain will never meet again this side of eternity.

Come to think of it, Obama and the liberals have offered the 'Right' an opportunity.

Hopefully it will galvanize even the most naïve whites that the America they knew is over or will be in the next few decades.

Buy guns and ammo.

wow, I'm glad people like you are a minority. Every white person has mixed blood, just like every black, brown, yellow and whatever shade of their skin. I'm blonde/blue eyed, and when I come out of the sun, my arm skin is darker than most Thais. If you want to shoot things, go get a pig carcass and hang it up in back of your trailer. Far better to get active for environmental issues, than for self-fueled anger about people who don't have freckles.

there a substantial minority of racists in the US,many of whom have a voice in congress, but they will be marginalised as they become a minority in their own right.

Indeed, the poster's racist rants refer to "white anger" and "naive whites" along with the imperatives of secession, civil war and to "buy guns and ammo".

Fact is these people constitute the entrails of history, sometimes and necessarily literally.

When people here ask me about the United States, the first thing I say to 'em is that America is always changing. And the only thing new about it is that the changes are occurring more rapidly and unpredictably than one could ever foresee.

The US has been busy globalizing the world of nations and for a considerable time already the United States has been globalizing itself. The national policy of demographic self-globalization has now become manifest and it will only continue to occur. It's been the national public policy for the past 50 years so I dunno why anyone should suddenly be so surprised or so fierce about it.