Renew British Passport: Appointment Blocked

[raro]

Part of the goodwill is the location. If you want to have a successful business, the location is everything. So if there is a bar for sale at a good location it is probably better to buy it than opening around the corner from scratch.

[khunPer]

Johnnybgood,

You buy ”goodwill” when you buy a business, and often you also buy some inventory – but the physical place may be rented and you still have to pay rent, license fees and taxes to run the business.

Even you buy property together with a business, you often pay for “goodwill” on top.

You talked about a rented car as example, now if that car is for business and has a name and “goodwill” – people orders for example that specific named car for pick up at airport because of the good service – then that’s what you buy, even you don’t own the car and shall continue to pay rent and maintenance.

The price is depending of the value of the former business and the location – a business at a busy main street is worth a lot more than a business in an empty backyard – and if it’s not just a free for lease place, then you cannot have it without negotiation with the present (soon former) owner. Also remaining length of lease period is a factor; if only 1 year left you don’t have long time to recover the investment against the unknown factor of future lease agreement, compared if you are offered to take over a 10-year contract, in that case fairly save if stated on the land deed. Of course also the “market value”, if you ask 5 million and nobody wants to pay more than 1 million, then you cannot sell it before you lower the price to what “the market” is willing to pay. If you act the other way round, sell for 1 million if worth 5 million, then you are either a “kwai” (buffalo) or desperate to get out.

In busy bar-areas you may see bars traded for 10 million and up, even there comes a quite high rent of top that can also be in millions a year.

By the way, I believe when you “buy” a go-go dancer, you also buy some “goodwill” for a (very) limited time; the rent you paid as a “fine” in the bar...

Edited November 22, 2014 by khunPer

[smotherb]

Rent a girl from a gogo bar...why can't you sell her, have you tried? Try it, I'm sure if you choose a nice girl you will find a ready buyer to pay you to take her off your hands for the night.

Rent a condo...at a good rent and require a fee for another renter to move in and take over the contract....why not? It's called novation.

Etc etc...

No, it's called sublet. Actually, the best way to deal with bars. Get a long-term lease with the property owner which allows you to sublet. Do whatever modifications you deem necessary, staff it, stock it, and open it. The rights to an open and operating bar are more expensive--so charge a rights fee. Lease it for as short a period as you can--a monthly rental plus a deposit. Charge for the mods, stock, licensing fees--additional revenue. If they want to keep your staff--they pay another fee. The staff should be yours to take to your next sublet bar. That way the poor slobs who buy your rights have to worry about making money. They will all invariably make improvements. Boot them if they fail to make rent and sell it again.

[frank0424]

If you want to make a small fortune running a bar,

start off with a big fortune.

[MauiSteveBKK]

I've owned 14 small businesses. Currently, own two on Maui.

Never buy from an individual. or a business broker.

Buy the "location" and then renovate to the way you want.

Buy a business is bad news, as you'll want to make many changes. Just buy a location, gut it, and

then make it the way you want. Cheaper. Easier.

You may buy some "Good Will." Maybe, you buy some "Bad Will" also. It goes both ways.

I'm looking at a coffee shop near the university and will turn it into a "Texas-theme Restaurant & Saloon" with all "Texas Stuff" and have girls in skimpie shorts and tops with cowboy boots. Ya -- Hoo !

[tancred]

Buying a Bar is nearly as dangerous as marrying,making oneself a target for expensive demands,

[davethailand]

Buying a Bar is nearly as dangerous as marrying,making oneself a target for expensive demands,

Depends who you marry.

[davethailand]

Why on earth would anyone want to by a bar?

In reality the only way to make money from a bar is to sell it for more than you paid to the next idiot.

Some very successful bar owners out there may disagree with that.

[Tokay]

Why on earth would anyone want to by a bar?

In reality the only way to make money from a bar is to sell it for more than you paid to the next idiot.

Some very successful bar owners out there may disagree with that.

Compared to the numbers who have lost their shirt in the bar business, there are not many successful bar owners out there.

Yes, they exist, but they are the exception, not the norm. However, that can be said about most businesses.

The bar business in general is difficult, but add Thailand, Thais, crooked police, and non-stop shenanigans to the mix... no thanks.

[johnnybgood]

Why on earth would anyone want to by a bar?

In reality the only way to make money from a bar is to sell it for more than you paid to the next idiot.

Some very successful bar owners out there may disagree with that.

"Owners" ?? Do you mean the renters / lease holders?

Successful owners = Passively enriched Thais.

They get the equity and an endless line of eager foreign developers - and hard working bar business moguls.

[davethailand]

Why on earth would anyone want to by a bar?

In reality the only way to make money from a bar is to sell it for more than you paid to the next idiot.

Some very successful bar owners out there may disagree with that.

Compared to the numbers who have lost their shirt in the bar business, there are not many successful bar owners out there.

Yes, they exist, but they are the exception, not the norm. However, that can be said about most businesses.

The bar business in general is difficult, but add Thailand, Thais, crooked police, and non-stop shenanigans to the mix... no thanks.

I know, did it for almost 13 years.

[davethailand]

Why on earth would anyone want to by a bar?

In reality the only way to make money from a bar is to sell it for more than you paid to the next idiot.

Some very successful bar owners out there may disagree with that.

"Owners" ?? Do you mean the renters / lease holders?

Successful owners = Passively enriched Thais.

They get the equity and an endless line of eager foreign developers - and hard working bar business moguls.

real regs.jpg

So no foreign bar owner (sorry leaseholder) has taken a lease over, turned it into a great business and then sold it on for a nice profit?

[johnnybgood]

Yes Dave, We all know how well you did with the Blues Factory.

...............or was it the 19th Hole next door?......... I get confused

[davethailand]

Yes Dave, We all know how well you did with the Blues Factory.

...............or was it the 19th Hole next door?......... I get confused

19th hole was upstairs, that changed maybe 6 years or more ago.

Blues Factory was mine, I closed it down in July (didn't sell it, literally gutted it and closed it) and I'm back in the UK.

Had almost 13 years there and lived well and enjoyed it (well most).

I'm not one of the barowners that I posted about.

Edited November 23, 2014 by davethailand

[khunPer]

Why on earth would anyone want to by a bar?

In reality the only way to make money from a bar is to sell it for more than you paid to the next idiot.

Some very successful bar owners out there may disagree with that.

"Owners" ?? Do you mean the renters / lease holders?

Successful owners = Passively enriched Thais.

They get the equity and an endless line of eager foreign developers - and hard working bar business moguls.

real regs.jpg

So no foreign bar owner (sorry leaseholder) has taken a lease over, turned it into a great business and then sold it on for a nice profit?

Some has indeed...

[Anthony5]

Yes Dave, We all know how well you did with the Blues Factory.

...............or was it the 19th Hole next door?......... I get confused

19th hole was upstairs, that changed maybe 6 years or more ago.

Blues Factory was mine, I closed it down in July (didn't sell it, literally gutted it and closed it) and I'm back in the UK.

Had almost 13 years there and lived well and enjoyed it (well most).

I'm not one of the barowners that I posted about.

Maybe you should name a few of those successful foreign bar owners you had in mind. Bet you can complete the list on the back of a beer pad.

[davethailand]

Yes Dave, We all know how well you did with the Blues Factory.

...............or was it the 19th Hole next door?......... I get confused

19th hole was upstairs, that changed maybe 6 years or more ago.

Blues Factory was mine, I closed it down in July (didn't sell it, literally gutted it and closed it) and I'm back in the UK.

Had almost 13 years there and lived well and enjoyed it (well most).

I'm not one of the barowners that I posted about.

Maybe you should name a few of those successful foreign bar owners you had in mind. Bet you can complete the list on the back of a beer pad.

Maybe I could but who says I know any?

Fact is there are successful farang bar owners.

Edited November 23, 2014 by davethailand

[Chivas]

A lot depends on locality. Only a few designated entertainment areas exist in reality and unless you in one of those 'zones' the permits and licences for a bar are troublesome and often not that legal to begin with.

Certainly half the ones seem to have managers with no work permits. Half of Soi 6 seem to be at the very least,

[manarak]

What a strange pointless topic.

Indeed. A college course in business management wouldn't go amiss.

Pointless... yes, for someone who knows how restaurant/shop businesses usually work.

But then, giving it some thought, OP's point brings back common sense into evaluating such businesses.

The point is that when a business does not own the real estate and if the lease is not a long term lease with drastic clauses protecting it from being evicted with financial losses, the business will just be ephemereal, I.e. not last long, be temporary.

People embarking into such ventures are usually hard working professionals who know how to build up a business during 2-3 years to make the figures look very good and then sell it... My opinion is that it is already very hard to maintain a well-running business built in such a way...

Anyone who wants to run a business long term needs to secure the walls, especially in Thailand.