Michael Brown shooting: Ferguson jury reaches verdict

[chuckd]

Replying to post #179 by CM Nightrider:

I am not hating anyone, not even racist coppers.

It DOES matter, by the way, why he was stopped, because action triggers reaction!

But of course, you know that, don't you?

It doesn't sit too well, with the population of a mainly "black" community, when they got stopped for no obvious reason by a mainly "white" police- force.

Come to think about it: I assume you know, but you couldn't care less, because the one time in your live that you got stopped by a cop, you didn't bother.

Come back, when you get stopped over and over and over again, by a cop for no obvious reason and tell me again, that it doesn't matter!

I would ask you, to walk a mile in the shoes of an African- American, being subjected to racial profiling.

But I guess, it makes no sense, because...racism in the US simply doesn't exist...right?!

Wilson originally told Brown and Johnson to stop walking in the middle of the street and get on the sidewalk. I don't see any racial profiling here. Do you?

They mouthed off to him and then he heard a physical description of the person who had robbed a convenience store, stealing some Swisher Sweets. I presume you are an American and know what Swisher Sweets are. If not, Google is your friend.

Noticing Brown had a hand full of Swisher Sweets, Wilson, rightfully so, initiated the action to arrest the suspect.

Little did Wilson know that Brown had drugs in his system and was not going to be receptive to any form of authority.

The rest is history.

I'm presuming you are either a non-American or a very old American. The term "coppers" hasn't been used in the US since prohibition.

[Jingthing]

Hmm.

Instead, McCulloch short-circuited the process — reinforcing a sense among African Americans, and many others, that the justice system is rigged. He almost certainly could have secured an indictment on a lesser charge simply by requesting it, yet he acted as if he were a spectator, saying that jurors decided not to return a “true bill” on each possible charge — as if this were a typical outcome.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-bob-mccullochs-pathetic-prosecution-of-darren-wilson/2014/11/25/a8459e16-74d5-11e4-a755-e32227229e7b_story.html?hpid=z2

[thailiketoo]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/25/politics/giuliani-grand-jury-right-decision/

Giuliani on Ferguson: Right decision, prosecution could 'never have won

Giuliani, who also served six years as a U.S. attorney, said the case against Wilson failed the two tests that should be considered in weighing an indictment: whether there is probable cause and whether a prosecutor could clinch a conviction.

You have every right to protest, you have every right to scream, you have every right to yell. The first time you throw something at a police officer, you get handcuffed arrested and taken away," Giuliani said.

He added that he would have doubled or tripled the police presence in Ferguson.

Edited November 26, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Asiantravel]

Hmm.

Instead, McCulloch short-circuited the process — reinforcing a sense among African Americans, and many others, that the justice system is rigged. He almost certainly could have secured an indictment on a lesser charge simply by requesting it, yet he acted as if he were a spectator, saying that jurors decided not to return a “true bill” on each possible charge — as if this were a typical outcome.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-bob-mccullochs-pathetic-prosecution-of-darren-wilson/2014/11/25/a8459e16-74d5-11e4-a755-e32227229e7b_story.html?hpid=z2

I believe there is a gag order on all 12 jurors. They needed only needed 9 to agree who could have all been white and it seems we will never know if any the three black juror's disagreed with the outcome?

Edited November 26, 2014 by Asiantravel

[thailiketoo]

I believe there is a gag order on all 12 jurors. They needed only needed 9 to agree who could have all been white and it seems we will never know if any the three black juror's disagreed with the outcome?

Can members of the grand jury speak publicly or tell friends or relatives about the case after their work is done?

No. They are prohibited by state law from discussing any details. They would be facing a contempt-of-court charge, a Class A misdemeanor, which could result in a fine and up to one year in jail.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-ferguson-grand-jury-process-works/2014/11/24/46599f9a-73f9-11e4-a589-1b102c2f81d0_story.html

[Mrjlh]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Isn't it interesting how certain people just can not accept the truth? That not matter what anyone says, they are right and everyone is wrong. The Grand Jury in this case "saw ALL the evidence", we did not. They heard "ALL" the testimonies, we (the Public) did not. They heard more evidence than what is normally presented by the Prosecution beyond anything the US justice system has ever seen before. A Grand Jury is comprised from 16-23 people, you are "one" person. Their conclusion is there was NOT enough evidence nor was there sufficient cause to press charges in this case. Case "Closed".

It's also interesting how worlds away people are passing judgement of an event they "only" read in the newspapers and what they saw on TV. People who have never even been in the US and have no clue as to what low income life is like there. They don't see the racism nor the hate that certain ethnic group generate even though it happens in their own country. There were several documented reports that described and detailed the history of the neighborhood that Mr. Brown grew up. Drugs and gangs where prevalent and they are currently the ones causing the riots in Ferguson.

What is totally amazing how certain people have made a hero ( martyr) out of a person who on "video" committed a Felony assault and robbery. Then assaulted a Police Officer. Seems we really have really good examples of winners of the "Darwin Award". Most are the ones rioting in Ferguson.

.I can see your point. But sometimes to get to the truth you just need to keep digging. This is evidenced by the necessity of multiple congressional committee reports into the the Bengazi fiasco. The case isn't closed, it just needs further investigation. Sure, the Grand Jury saw all the evidence, but can they have really seen all the evidence if the outcome isn't what I think it should be? Absolutely not. More investigation is needed most certainly.

In this case the answer is YES. They were privy to all the evidence. The Prosecutor made it very clear he had presented more evidence than in a normal GJ investigation. It's been all over the news in fact as to why did Officer Wilson appeared since he is the one being prosecuted. The prosecutor wanted every thing laid on the the able due to racial overtones of this case. In fact there were only two witness's that did not appear was because they could not "find" them after they made their reports of what they saw. Like I stated, the GJ saw more evidence than what was reported in all the news mediums. But you always have the narrow minded, bigoted idiot who refuses to accept the truth. They believe what they want to hear just to suit their own falsely contrived impression of what happened. It is a known fact when a person witness any event, the mind fills in the gaps of what it does not understand.

This case can not be compared to the Benghazi fiasco because in that situation there was a deliberate cover up attempt.

[chuckd]

Here is some reading for those that want the opinions of various lawyers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Legal scholars praise Ferguson grand jury for fairness beyond the norm

By Kellan Howell - The Washington Times - Tuesday, November 25, 2014

Legal experts across the country agree that while the process that led to a grand jury’s decision not to indict Officer Darren Wilson for killing Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, was unusual, it was not unfair. Rather if it was anything unusual, it was in its fairness and openness.

Lawyers and academics told The Washington Times that, despite their personal opinions on the case, which has sparked riots over police brutality, St. Louis county prosecutor Robert McCulloch sought unbiased justice in presenting the jury with every piece of evidence and then making that evidence public.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/nov/25/legal-scholars-praise-ferguson-grand-jury-fairness/#ixzz3KC63VLc9

[Publicus]

There is among legal scholars and practitioners as much controversy about how the public prosecutor Robert McCulloch presented things to the grand jury as there is among the general public and a lot of forum posters.

Nothing has been settled legally except to confirm there never was going to be a trial by the state or an indictment.

Darren Wilson was never cross examined by a lawyer for the plaintiff -- oops, wow, it seems there was no plaintiff, no complaint, no accuser.And this was a homicide killing.....a homicide killing by a police officer of an unarmed citizen. Yet there was no formal legal complaint or charge of any kind......

Legal scholars that can support and defend the processes pursued by the public prosecutor turned Wilson and Ferguson PD defense lawyer Robert McCulloch are only those who think and act in the same ways he does. Forum posters who support, defend, advocate that have their own agendas.

What's in Ferguson files? Little clarity, lots of questions

The decision by a Missouri grand jury not to indict Police Officer Darren Wilson is stirring controversy not just on urban streets but also among legal scholars

Some say the lack of criminal charges in the shooting death of black teen Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., shows a pro-police bias on the part of the St. Louis County prosecutor’s office.

But others say the process appears to have reached the correct conclusion based on a wide-ranging review of the available evidence.

http://news.yahoo.com/whats-ferguson-files-little-clarity-lots-questions-233942814.html

Wilson may never escape public infamy, but he won't have a criminal arrest record, McGraugh said. Since St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch did not bring a criminal complaint against Wilson and he was never charged, arraigned or arrested.

"They did not find probable cause to believe a crime was committed and Darren Wilson committed it," said Susan McGraugh, a criminal defense lawyer and a professor at the St. Louis University School of Law. "They don't have to explain their reasoning, and they won't. They simply have a form and sign something that says 'no true bill.' "

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/27154-grand-jury-call-not-the-end-for-darren-wilson

So neither Wilson nor Brown committed a crime on the day that one shot the other to death. One had a handgun and the other was unarmed. Neither have ever been charged with anything. Neither were arrested or arraigned. And neither has been convicted of anything to include jaywalking.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Publicus

[Publicus]

Grand Jury Call Not the End for Darren Wilson

By Yamiche Alcindor, USA Today

25 November 14

The grand jury, which convened Aug. 20, did not weigh whether Wilson had a justifiable reason to shoot Brown.

"They are not making a decision on Officer Wilson's guilt," said Peter Joy, a criminal defense attorney and law professor at Washington University in St. Louis School of Law.

Brown's family could sue Wilson and the Ferguson Police Department for excessive force and wrongful death, said James Cohen, a professor at Fordham University Law School.

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/27154-grand-jury-call-not-the-end-for-darren-wilson

The Brown family could file a civil suit similar to the O.J. Simpson case in which Simpson was acquitted of homicide but later found liable in a subsequent civil trial.

The Justice Department is pursuing its finding of a prima facie case against the Ferguson PD and the St Louis county PD which trains Ferguson PD police officers, of having a practice and pattern of violating the constitution and U.S. civil rights statutes.

The news article linked in this post discusses how, if DoJ finds the pattern and practice it strongly suspects exists, the issue of training would engulf and sweep through each police department.

[F430murci]

Grand Jury Call Not the End for Darren Wilson

By Yamiche Alcindor, USA Today

25 November 14

The grand jury, which convened Aug. 20, did not weigh whether Wilson had a justifiable reason to shoot Brown.

"They are not making a decision on Officer Wilson's guilt," said Peter Joy, a criminal defense attorney and law professor at Washington University in St. Louis School of Law.

Brown's family could sue Wilson and the Ferguson Police Department for excessive force and wrongful death, said James Cohen, a professor at Fordham University Law School.

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/27154-grand-jury-call-not-the-end-for-darren-wilson

The Brown family could file a civil suit similar to the O.J. Simpson case in which Simpson was acquitted of homicide but later found liable in a subsequent civil trial.

The Justice Department is pursuing its finding of a prima facie case against the Ferguson PD and the St Louis county PD which trains Ferguson PD police officers, of having a practice and pattern of violating the constitution and U.S. civil rights statutes.

The news article linked in this post discusses how, if DoJ finds the pattern and practice it strongly suspects exists, the issue of training would engulf and sweep through each police department.

Somebody needs to arrest and sue Brown's POS stepfather for inciting a riot by yelling at every to "burn the beotchhh down." Not much wonder why Brown turned out the way he did given the horrible role models in his life.

Any civil case will be subject to Givernmental Tort Liability Act so they will remain food stampers regardless if the file a civil suit. They ain't getting squat out of that one due to GTLA and based on witness interviews I read. BTW, OJ was acquitted in a criminal trial which had a much higher burden than a GJ proceeding. If they couldn't get a GJ to indict, fat chance getting a civil award when there are good attorneys defending those claims.

[F430murci]

Wow, any wonder why Brown turned out to be a thug POS? Check out role model step dad. They need to sue this POS civilly for damage down the city.

---------

http://news.yahoo.com/michael-brown-stepfather-burn-this-down-ferguson-video-182317962.html

[Publicus]

Grand Jury Call Not the End for Darren Wilson

By Yamiche Alcindor, USA Today

25 November 14

The grand jury, which convened Aug. 20, did not weigh whether Wilson had a justifiable reason to shoot Brown.

"They are not making a decision on Officer Wilson's guilt," said Peter Joy, a criminal defense attorney and law professor at Washington University in St. Louis School of Law.

Brown's family could sue Wilson and the Ferguson Police Department for excessive force and wrongful death, said James Cohen, a professor at Fordham University Law School.

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/27154-grand-jury-call-not-the-end-for-darren-wilson

The Brown family could file a civil suit similar to the O.J. Simpson case in which Simpson was acquitted of homicide but later found liable in a subsequent civil trial.

The Justice Department is pursuing its finding of a prima facie case against the Ferguson PD and the St Louis county PD which trains Ferguson PD police officers, of having a practice and pattern of violating the constitution and U.S. civil rights statutes.

The news article linked in this post discusses how, if DoJ finds the pattern and practice it strongly suspects exists, the issue of training would engulf and sweep through each police department.

Somebody needs to arrest and sue Brown's POS stepfather for inciting a riot by yelling at every to "burn the beotchhh down." Not much wonder why Brown turned out the way he did given the horrible role models in his life.

Any civil case will be subject to Givernmental Tort Liability Act so they will remain food stampers regardless if the file a civil suit. They ain't getting squat out of that one due to GTLA and based on witness interviews I read. BTW, OJ was acquitted in a criminal trial which had a much higher burden than a GJ proceeding. If they couldn't get a GJ to indict, fat chance getting a civil award when there are good attorneys defending those claims.

The post is by another lawyer with a legal and personal opinion, which is fine given what it is.

Yes, O.J. Simpson did go to trial and yes he faced a much greater burden than Wilson did at the grand jury hosted by his close pal and new best buddy Robert McCulloch.

Simpson charmed a petite jury of 9 blacks, 1 Hispanic, 2 whites while Wilson had a an equal number to dazzle on his grand jury consisting of 9 whites and three blacks. Each jury turned out to be of an equal number so it might remain a rhetorical formality as to which was petite and which might have been grand.

As with most homicide defendants, Simpson chose not to take the stand. Wilson in contrast enjoyed the rare hospitality of having been invited to testify before the grand jury by his newest chum and strongest supporter, the prosecutor for the defense Robert McCulloch.

McCulloch had no opposing counsel whereas Simpson's dream team of criminal defense lawyers did have to face a team of public prosecutors that simply bungled the case. Wilson conversely had his own personal team of lawyers, his A Team of lawyers but Wilson also had a B Team of defense lawyers headed by McCulloch himself. Two for the price of one.

A DoJ study shows that over a long stretch of time federal grand juries nationwide issued indictments in all but 11 instances of 162,000 grand jury sittings. That's a rate of 99.9% and everyone around seems to agree McCulloch is a masterful state prosecutor.

[Publicus]

Wow, any wonder why Brown turned out to be a thug POS? Check out role model step dad. They need to sue this POS civilly for damage down the city.

---------

http://news.yahoo.com/michael-brown-stepfather-burn-this-down-ferguson-video-182317962.html

The family of the slain teenager Michael Brown has endured a crucible that is only just beginning for them as they now contemplate filing a civil liability suit over the homicide of their son.

Michael Brown's biological parents have consistently and only called for calm in the midst of chaos, peace when there has been violent disorder, justice where justice is still at issue. They deserve respect in their quiet dignity and their honorable simplicity.

Michael Brown’s parents testify at UN in Geneva: ‘We need answers,’ mom says

BY DEBORAH HASTINGS

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Published: Tuesday, November 11, 2014, 4:47 PM

Updated: Tuesday, November 11, 2014, 9:25 PM

SUSAN WALSH/APThe parents of Michael Brown, Lesley McSpadden, left, and Michael Brown Sr., right, traveled to Geneva to address a U.N. committee Tuesday.

The parents of a black teenager shot to death by a white officer in Ferguson, Mo., testified at the United Nations in Geneva on Tuesday, saying they wanted to world to know what has taken place in their suburban Midwest town.

"We need answers and we need action," said mother Lesley McSpadden. "And we have to bring it to the U.N. so they can expose it to the rest of the world - what's going on in small-town Ferguson," she told members of the Committee Against Torture.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/michael-brown-parents-u-n-st-louis-braces-verdict-article-1.2007263

Edited November 26, 2014 by Publicus

[F430murci]

Grand Jury Call Not the End for Darren Wilson

By Yamiche Alcindor, USA Today

25 November 14

The grand jury, which convened Aug. 20, did not weigh whether Wilson had a justifiable reason to shoot Brown.

"They are not making a decision on Officer Wilson's guilt," said Peter Joy, a criminal defense attorney and law professor at Washington University in St. Louis School of Law.

Brown's family could sue Wilson and the Ferguson Police Department for excessive force and wrongful death, said James Cohen, a professor at Fordham University Law School.

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/27154-grand-jury-call-not-the-end-for-darren-wilson

The Brown family could file a civil suit similar to the O.J. Simpson case in which Simpson was acquitted of homicide but later found liable in a subsequent civil trial.

The Justice Department is pursuing its finding of a prima facie case against the Ferguson PD and the St Louis county PD which trains Ferguson PD police officers, of having a practice and pattern of violating the constitution and U.S. civil rights statutes.

The news article linked in this post discusses how, if DoJ finds the pattern and practice it strongly suspects exists, the issue of training would engulf and sweep through each police department.

Somebody needs to arrest and sue Brown's POS stepfather for inciting a riot by yelling at every to "burn the beotchhh down." Not much wonder why Brown turned out the way he did given the horrible role models in his life.

Any civil case will be subject to Givernmental Tort Liability Act so they will remain food stampers regardless if the file a civil suit. They ain't getting squat out of that one due to GTLA and based on witness interviews I read. BTW, OJ was acquitted in a criminal trial which had a much higher burden than a GJ proceeding. If they couldn't get a GJ to indict, fat chance getting a civil award when there are good attorneys defending those claims.

The post is by another lawyer with a legal and personal opinion, which is fine given what it is.

Yes, O.J. Simpson did go to trial and yes he faced a much greater burden than Wilson did at the grand jury hosted by his close pal and new best buddy Robert McCulloch.

Simpson charmed a petite jury of 9 blacks, 1 Hispanic, 2 whites while Wilson had a an equal number to dazzle on his grand jury consisting of 9 whites and three blacks. Each jury turned out to be of an equal number so it might remain a rhetorical formality as to which was petite and which might have been grand.

As with most homicide defendants, Simpson chose not to take the stand. Wilson in contrast enjoyed the rare hospitality of having been invited to testify before the grand jury by his newest chum and strongest supporter, the prosecutor for the defense Robert McCulloch.

McCulloch had no opposing counsel whereas Simpson's dream team of criminal defense lawyers did have to face a team of public prosecutors that simply bungled the case. Wilson conversely had his own personal team of lawyers, his A Team of lawyers but Wilson also had a B Team of defense lawyers headed by McCulloch himself. Two for the price of one.

A DoJ study shows that over a long stretch of time federal grand juries nationwide issued indictments in all but 11 instances of 162,000 grand jury sittings. That's a rate of 99.9% and everyone around seems to agree McCulloch is a masterful state prosecutor.

Oh dear God, stop with the OJ bs. Unbelievable evidence of guilt in OJ case followed by him taking off in his Bronco with police following him. Read the transcripts of the evidence presented to the GJ in the Brown case. Unbelievable evidence supporting officer's actions. The facts are pretty compelling and definitely support the GJ's findings. You incessantly talk nonsense, which is perhaps the norm for internet forums, but you talk no facts and sound as if you refused to actually read the real evidence and not the social network and media ramblings of other loons with agendas.

The fact remains, if Brown had been white this would not have gone to the GJ. The evidence was not there, but they had to present to the GJ due to the powder keg racial issues fueled by Obama and Holder. The reason they did not indict is because the case should have never been presented in the first place. Prosecutors typically only present cases to the GJ where they know they can get an indictment.

[Publicus]

Grand Jury Call Not the End for Darren Wilson

By Yamiche Alcindor, USA Today

25 November 14

The grand jury, which convened Aug. 20, did not weigh whether Wilson had a justifiable reason to shoot Brown.

"They are not making a decision on Officer Wilson's guilt," said Peter Joy, a criminal defense attorney and law professor at Washington University in St. Louis School of Law.

Brown's family could sue Wilson and the Ferguson Police Department for excessive force and wrongful death, said James Cohen, a professor at Fordham University Law School.

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/27154-grand-jury-call-not-the-end-for-darren-wilson

The Brown family could file a civil suit similar to the O.J. Simpson case in which Simpson was acquitted of homicide but later found liable in a subsequent civil trial.

The Justice Department is pursuing its finding of a prima facie case against the Ferguson PD and the St Louis county PD which trains Ferguson PD police officers, of having a practice and pattern of violating the constitution and U.S. civil rights statutes.

The news article linked in this post discusses how, if DoJ finds the pattern and practice it strongly suspects exists, the issue of training would engulf and sweep through each police department.

Somebody needs to arrest and sue Brown's POS stepfather for inciting a riot by yelling at every to "burn the beotchhh down." Not much wonder why Brown turned out the way he did given the horrible role models in his life.

Any civil case will be subject to Givernmental Tort Liability Act so they will remain food stampers regardless if the file a civil suit. They ain't getting squat out of that one due to GTLA and based on witness interviews I read. BTW, OJ was acquitted in a criminal trial which had a much higher burden than a GJ proceeding. If they couldn't get a GJ to indict, fat chance getting a civil award when there are good attorneys defending those claims.

The post is by another lawyer with a legal and personal opinion, which is fine given what it is.

Yes, O.J. Simpson did go to trial and yes he faced a much greater burden than Wilson did at the grand jury hosted by his close pal and new best buddy Robert McCulloch.

Simpson charmed a petite jury of 9 blacks, 1 Hispanic, 2 whites while Wilson had a an equal number to dazzle on his grand jury consisting of 9 whites and three blacks. Each jury turned out to be of an equal number so it might remain a rhetorical formality as to which was petite and which might have been grand.

As with most homicide defendants, Simpson chose not to take the stand. Wilson in contrast enjoyed the rare hospitality of having been invited to testify before the grand jury by his newest chum and strongest supporter, the prosecutor for the defense Robert McCulloch.

McCulloch had no opposing counsel whereas Simpson's dream team of criminal defense lawyers did have to face a team of public prosecutors that simply bungled the case. Wilson conversely had his own personal team of lawyers, his A Team of lawyers but Wilson also had a B Team of defense lawyers headed by McCulloch himself. Two for the price of one.

A DoJ study shows that over a long stretch of time federal grand juries nationwide issued indictments in all but 11 instances of 162,000 grand jury sittings. That's a rate of 99.9% and everyone around seems to agree McCulloch is a masterful state prosecutor.

Oh dear God, stop with the OJ bs. Unbelievable evidence of guilt in OJ case followed by him taking off in his Bronco with police following him. Read the transcripts of the evidence presented to the GJ in the Brown case. Unbelievable evidence supporting officer's actions. The facts are pretty compelling and definitely support the GJ's findings. You incessantly talk nonsense, which is perhaps the norm for internet forums, but you talk no facts and sound as if you refused to actually read the real evidence and not the social network and media ramblings of other loons with agendas.

The fact remains, if Brown had been white this would not have gone to the GJ. The evidence was not there, but they had to present to the GJ due to the powder keg racial issues fueled by Obama and Holder. The reason they did not indict is because the case should have never been presented in the first place. Prosecutors typically only present cases to the GJ where they know they can get an indictment.

No more trying to exploit the stepfather is a welcome development especially for a poster who furthered the O.J. Simpson case, trial and verdict in the discussion then denounced the fact of a reply.

I'm mildly surprised a legal mind would expect another person who reads the identical documents to necessarily come to a conclusion that would be identical, same or similar to that of the individual poster himself. Eyewitnesses to the events of the homicide can't agree on what they saw, legal beagle minds disagree over the significance and meaning of the grand jury documents and decision.

Others might be shocked that a supposedly competent independent prosecutor there turned out to be as neutral as some legal beagles and others are here.

Thanksgiving Day is upon us and so are the turkeys so enjoy the feasting but there are some celebrants out there who need to go easy on the stuffing.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Publicus

[Publicus]

New Yorker’s Ferguson cover shows black and white Arch

The New Yorker's Dec. 8 cover will feature a disconnected Arch that's white on its south leg and black on its north.

In the wake of Michael Brown's shooting death, the region has received an overwhelming amount of negative press. Bob Staake, who lived in St. Louis for 17 years before moving to Massachusetts, designed the cover for the magazine.

"At first glance, one might see a representation of the Gateway Arch as split and divided, but my hope is that the events in Ferguson will provide a bridge and an opportunity for the city, and also for the country, to learn and come together," Staake told the magazine, which has a circulation of 1,049,430.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog/2014/11/new-yorker-s-ferguson-cover-shows-black-and-white.html

For others abroad who might not know, St Louis during the last half of the 19th century was the departure point of most wagon trains bearing settlers moving west from across the Mississippi River where St Louis is to the open prairie and destinations such as Denver, Texas, Oklahoma, California, Oregon, Washington (state).

The St. Louis Gateway Arch in January 2008

Gateway to the West

I was sent to St Louis in 1991 as head of an official audit crew from my base in Washington DC so we rode bucket seats in the claustrophobic arches to its bird's nest at the top and its view to Kansas flat out to the distant horizon. The arch is 630 ft (132m) of stainless steel, the tallest manmade monument in the Americas.

The Arch and the Old Courthouse

in St. Louis

The otherwise memorable view showed me how geographically small St Louis city is to include very few skyscrapers (if any). Compared to the view from inside the cone atop the Washington Monument St Louis is a small town. (The view from here at TVF is almost entirely to the right far far off out to the remote distance.)

Missouri entered the Union in 1821 as a slave state (the infamous Missouri Compromise), was legally neutral during the Civil War but adopted an anti-slavery state constitution while sending volunteer troops to both the Union and to the Confederacy, more than twice as many siding with the Union.

Wm B Ferguson founded the town for the Wabash Railroad in 1855 and by legal incorporation in 1894 had a population 99% white. It is currently two-thirds black with a median household income of $43,000 which is a couple of percent below the national average.

[ABCer]

Not easy to be a Judge in this case.

There are lots of Pros and Cons in this case.

* Pros for Brown:

- He was young

- He was black

- His gun was a fake

- He was a good boy (usually)

- He is dead

* Cons for Wilson:

- He is an adult

- He is white

- He is a cop (usually bad?)

- He had a real gun

- He didn't read Brown his rights

- He is still alive

Edited November 27, 2014 by Scott

[chuckd]

Thanksgiving Day is upon us and so are the turkeys so enjoy the feasting but there are some celebrants out there who need to go easy on the stuffing.

Physician, heal thyself.

Luke 4:23

[CMNightRider]

Wow, any wonder why Brown turned out to be a thug POS? Check out role model step dad. They need to sue this POS civilly for damage down the city.

---------

http://news.yahoo.com/michael-brown-stepfather-burn-this-down-ferguson-video-182317962.html

The family of the slain teenager Michael Brown has endured a crucible that is only just beginning for them as they now contemplate filing a civil liability suit over the homicide of their son.

Michael Brown's biological parents have consistently and only called for calm in the midst of chaos, peace when there has been violent disorder, justice where justice is still at issue. They deserve respect in their quiet dignity and their honorable simplicity.

Michael Brown’s parents testify at UN in Geneva: ‘We need answers,’ mom says

BY DEBORAH HASTINGS

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Published: Tuesday, November 11, 2014, 4:47 PM

Updated: Tuesday, November 11, 2014, 9:25 PM

SUSAN WALSH/APThe parents of Michael Brown, Lesley McSpadden, left, and Michael Brown Sr., right, traveled to Geneva to address a U.N. committee Tuesday.

The parents of a black teenager shot to death by a white officer in Ferguson, Mo., testified at the United Nations in Geneva on Tuesday, saying they wanted to world to know what has taken place in their suburban Midwest town.

"We need answers and we need action," said mother Lesley McSpadden. "And we have to bring it to the U.N. so they can expose it to the rest of the world - what's going on in small-town Ferguson," she told members of the Committee Against Torture.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/michael-brown-parents-u-n-st-louis-braces-verdict-article-1.2007263

Brown's mother "needs answers?" What's the question? It is a little late now, but maybe the Browns should have attended some sort of parenting class, when Michael was young. Somewhere along the line, these people need to accept responsibility for raising Michael Brown, into the person who thought is was okay to commit a robbery, assault a store clerk, and assault an on duty police officer. Gee, that's a novel thought, accepting responsibility for ones own actions.

[DM07]

1 ) the drug argument is laughable. There were traces of Marihuana in Michale Brown's blood, but that doesn't mean he was "under the influence". You can trace Marihuana in the blood for a few days after consumption. And even if: drug does not equal drug! Pott is a downer, if anything, it makes you mellow and not aggressive.

2 ) right after the shooting, the police- chief of Fergusson was asked REPEATEDLY in an interview, if Officer Willson was aware of the robbery in the convenience store. He REPEATEDLY said, that Willson had no knowledge of this. Later, the spin- machine under full steam, he had...a little...maybe...for sure. Conveniently there is no recorded evidence of that.

3 ) Officer Willson was 6,4...he was a big guy and a trained (at least, we hope so) long-serving police officer! He was frightened like a 5 year old, facing Hulk Hogan? How tall was Brown? 8,5? If he was so scared of a "demon", maybe he should quit police-work and do something more soothing...like gardening!

4 ) He said himself, he was chasing Michael Brown. Then he said, Brown turned around and was "charging" at him. The few credible eye- witnesses said NOTHING like that. Brown had his hand up and got shot several times. How logical (oh...I forgot...he was drugged!) is it to turn around and charge at someone, who is shooting at someone from behind? And he was charging through the bullets? He was a big black man- not Batman!

5 ) the prosecutor delivered points for the deffence, because he wanted to "fairly present all sides"! That is NOT what he should do!

These are just some of the points, that punch HUGE holes into this case!

Reminds you of something?

Koh Tao, maybe?!

[NeverSure]

1 ) the drug argument is laughable. There were traces of Marihuana in Michale Brown's blood, but that doesn't mean he was "under the influence". You can trace Marihuana in the blood for a few days after consumption. And even if: drug does not equal drug! Pott is a downer, if anything, it makes you mellow and not aggressive.

2 ) right after the shooting, the police- chief of Fergusson was asked REPEATEDLY in an interview, if Officer Willson was aware of the robbery in the convenience store. He REPEATEDLY said, that Willson had no knowledge of this. Later, the spin- machine under full steam, he had...a little...maybe...for sure. Conveniently there is no recorded evidence of that.

3 ) Officer Willson was 6,4...he was a big guy and a trained (at least, we hope so) long-serving police officer! He was frightened like a 5 year old, facing Hulk Hogan? How tall was Brown? 8,5? If he was so scared of a "demon", maybe he should quit police-work and do something more soothing...like gardening!

4 ) He said himself, he was chasing Michael Brown. Then he said, Brown turned around and was "charging" at him. The few credible eye- witnesses said NOTHING like that. Brown had his hand up and got shot several times. How logical (oh...I forgot...he was drugged!) is it to turn around and charge at someone, who is shooting at someone from behind? And he was charging through the bullets? He was a big black man- not Batman!

5 ) the prosecutor delivered points for the deffence, because he wanted to "fairly present all sides"! That is NOT what he should do!

These are just some of the points, that punch HUGE holes into this case!

Reminds you of something?

Koh Tao, maybe?!

Most of your "facts" are dead wrong and were proven wrong by forensic evidence.

A grand jury of ordinary citizens had 3 months to look at the actual evidence and hear the actual experts and came to one conclusion.

You don't know a damned thing but have your own conclusions. Brilliant.

[jpinx]

It's so sad to see the USA pull itself apart like this, but it has to be said that they made their own bed, and now they're finding it not so comfortable.

Education is always the key -- as it is in Thailand. Make education something that kids actually want and the next generation will not have similar problems. How many improvements to education could be achieved with the money that is currently going on military operations in other peoples countries? I know that's simplistic, but it's also symptomatic. Politicans want to have an impact and education doesn't have the ability to grab the headlines.

[chuckd]

1 ) the drug argument is laughable. There were traces of Marihuana in Michale Brown's blood, but that doesn't mean he was "under the influence". You can trace Marihuana in the blood for a few days after consumption. And even if: drug does not equal drug! Pott is a downer, if anything, it makes you mellow and not aggressive.

2 ) right after the shooting, the police- chief of Fergusson was asked REPEATEDLY in an interview, if Officer Willson was aware of the robbery in the convenience store. He REPEATEDLY said, that Willson had no knowledge of this. Later, the spin- machine under full steam, he had...a little...maybe...for sure. Conveniently there is no recorded evidence of that.

3 ) Officer Willson was 6,4...he was a big guy and a trained (at least, we hope so) long-serving police officer! He was frightened like a 5 year old, facing Hulk Hogan? How tall was Brown? 8,5? If he was so scared of a "demon", maybe he should quit police-work and do something more soothing...like gardening!

4 ) He said himself, he was chasing Michael Brown. Then he said, Brown turned around and was "charging" at him. The few credible eye- witnesses said NOTHING like that. Brown had his hand up and got shot several times. How logical (oh...I forgot...he was drugged!) is it to turn around and charge at someone, who is shooting at someone from behind? And he was charging through the bullets? He was a big black man- not Batman!

5 ) the prosecutor delivered points for the deffence, because he wanted to "fairly present all sides"! That is NOT what he should do!

These are just some of the points, that punch HUGE holes into this case!

Reminds you of something?

Koh Tao, maybe?!

I will bow to your obvious expertise on the use of drugs. The remainder of your post has been covered multiple times.

[NeverSure]

It's so sad to see the USA pull itself apart like this, but it has to be said that they made their own bed, and now they're finding it not so comfortable.

Education is always the key -- as it is in Thailand. Make education something that kids actually want and the next generation will not have similar problems. How many improvements to education could be achieved with the money that is currently going on military operations in other peoples countries? I know that's simplistic, but it's also symptomatic. Politicans want to have an impact and education doesn't have the ability to grab the headlines.

The USA isn't "pulling itself apart" any more than England is pulling itself apart with its influx of foreigners or any more than Thailand is with its upheavals in government and in the South. It isn't pulling itself apart any more than the EU is pulling itself apart.

There are always conflicts in this world. Some are foreign and some are domestic.

The US was born in blood and will always have blood. Other countries which weren't born in blood are beginning to have blood.

This is actually statically a tiny incident in a nation of more than 300 million people which has the world's third largest population. If some people with national voices didn't whip this up we never would have heard of it. If the deceased was white or the officer black we never would have heard of it.

While the grand jury was deliberating, about 8,000 Americans died on the highways. We didn't hear about that. Annually about 10 people in a 100,000 die in a road accident. Thats still 32,000 people and no one panics.

It's just a really big country and the odds are that a lot of things, good and bad, are going to happen. It will be in the news because it is the largest country by economy, the largest by usable land mass, the largest by natural resources, the largest militarily, and almost any thing that happens is news.

[jpinx]

It's so sad to see the USA pull itself apart like this, but it has to be said that they made their own bed, and now they're finding it not so comfortable.

Education is always the key -- as it is in Thailand. Make education something that kids actually want and the next generation will not have similar problems. How many improvements to education could be achieved with the money that is currently going on military operations in other peoples countries? I know that's simplistic, but it's also symptomatic. Politicans want to have an impact and education doesn't have the ability to grab the headlines.

The USA isn't "pulling itself apart" any more than England is pulling itself apart with its influx of foreigners or any more than Thailand is with its upheavals in government and in the South. It isn't pulling itself apart any more than the EU is pulling itself apart.

There are always conflicts in this world. Some are foreign and some are domestic.

The US was born in blood and will always have blood. Other countries which weren't born in blood are beginning to have blood.

This is actually statically a tiny incident in a nation of more than 300 million people which has the world's third largest population. If some people with national voices didn't whip this up we never would have heard of it. If the deceased was white or the officer black we never would have heard of it.

While the grand jury was deliberating, about 8,000 Americans died on the highways. We didn't hear about that. Annually about 10 people in a 100,000 die in a road accident. Thats still 32,000 people and no one panics.

It's just a really big country and the odds are that a lot of things, good and bad, are going to happen. It will be in the news because it is the largest country by economy, the largest by usable land mass, the largest by natural resources, the largest militarily, and almost any thing that happens is news.

When the population does not accept the findings of the judicial system, that is surely a bad thing. Whether it is seen as the country pulling itself apart or not depends on from where one is looking. Comparisons are odious at best, and usually very misleading. The numbers of people who find themselves to be victims or perpetrators of these incidents is easily arguably far higher in USA than any other country - as a proportion of the total population.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[WillLangdon]

The policeman should never have shot this guy.

The Mini Mart store clerk should have shot him 30 minutes earlier, when this big thug assaulted him & robbed the place.

My message to the crybabies?

Pick your battles. This guy had it coming.

[DM07]

1 ) the drug argument is laughable. There were traces of Marihuana in Michale Brown's blood, but that doesn't mean he was "under the influence". You can trace Marihuana in the blood for a few days after consumption. And even if: drug does not equal drug! Pott is a downer, if anything, it makes you mellow and not aggressive.

2 ) right after the shooting, the police- chief of Fergusson was asked REPEATEDLY in an interview, if Officer Willson was aware of the robbery in the convenience store. He REPEATEDLY said, that Willson had no knowledge of this. Later, the spin- machine under full steam, he had...a little...maybe...for sure. Conveniently there is no recorded evidence of that.

3 ) Officer Willson was 6,4...he was a big guy and a trained (at least, we hope so) long-serving police officer! He was frightened like a 5 year old, facing Hulk Hogan? How tall was Brown? 8,5? If he was so scared of a "demon", maybe he should quit police-work and do something more soothing...like gardening!

4 ) He said himself, he was chasing Michael Brown. Then he said, Brown turned around and was "charging" at him. The few credible eye- witnesses said NOTHING like that. Brown had his hand up and got shot several times. How logical (oh...I forgot...he was drugged!) is it to turn around and charge at someone, who is shooting at someone from behind? And he was charging through the bullets? He was a big black man- not Batman!

5 ) the prosecutor delivered points for the deffence, because he wanted to "fairly present all sides"! That is NOT what he should do!

These are just some of the points, that punch HUGE holes into this case!

Reminds you of something?

Koh Tao, maybe?!

Most of your "facts" are dead wrong and were proven wrong by forensic evidence.

A grand jury of ordinary citizens had 3 months to look at the actual evidence and hear the actual experts and came to one conclusion.

You don't know a damned thing but have your own conclusions. Brilliant.

Facts like: a big@$$ grown man with police training was scared to death by a guy, who was slightly taller than him and unarmed?

Facts like: dope turns you into an aggressive animal?

Facts like: he was shot from a distance of up to 35 feet away?

Facts like: he had his hands up as a sign of surrender, as reported by credible eye- witnesses?

Facts that were presented in an insuficient way, by a (most likely biased) prosecutor?

Facts like: police- officers never do wrong- black men always do wrong?

The only point that I give you: there seemed to be a confrontation between Michael Brown and officer Willson before the fatal shooting.

And -at best for Willson- Brown started it!

But even if that was the case: everything that followed is solely and clearly the responsibility of Willson!

In his own words: he was chasing Brown, shooting at him FROM BEHIND!

And concerning consistent and credible eye- witnesses, Brown was not "charging" at Willson through a rain of bullets.

He had his hands up!

He was surrendering!

At best, Willson acted in a form of hyped- up anger.

At worst, he shot him in cold blood.

But unfortunately, we will never know, because there will never be a trial.

Willson was not only whitewashed, he was made the victim!

We have heard his side, now let's hear Michael Browns version of things!

Oh...wait...we can't....because he was shot in the head and died!

[WillLangdon]

There were black witnesses that told the grand jury the culprit turned and charged at the cop.

They were not on facebook or TV telling the story.

This is confirmed by physical evidence.

His blood was found 30' beyond where his body lay.

This is proof he came back towards the cop.

Consider, moments before he assaulted the cop and was suspect in a robbery.

Next time you rob a Mini Mart, don't go strutting down the middle of the road, smashing cops in the face.

[Mrjlh]

Even when the truth is place before you...with actual hard physical evidence ...we still have a few who still believe the world is flat! I can now say there are at least three poster's here that have an extremely wrapped sense of the world. Two can still not get the facts straight even when it has been pointed out repeatedly of their errors and one contradicts every word he writes in the same post under the pretense of appearing intelligent and all knowing. If I captured and para-phased with rebuttal on every statement of all three, my post would become a novel. I'm really starting to pity these people.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Mrjlh