Toshiba Laptop Start-up Problem

[Pib]

The computer has built-in protection provisions to shut itself down for certain major problems like certain major component failing, overheating, etc. This occurs "before" your operating system even begins to boot.

When the video chip, an ATI X1300, died on my 7 year old Toshiba laptop the computer usually wouldn't even turn on. When pressing the power button you would see a flicker of some of the panel LEDs for a second or two, screen would remain black, no BIOS screen, etc., and then it just seemed like it had turned itself off. A few times when actually booting-up all the way and operating under Windows for a few minutes the screen just went black and the computer shut itself off. But usually, the computer wouldn't even boot up. The video chip actually resided on a video daughter board that plugged into the motherboard.

[seedy]

Thanks Pib - you Da' Man !!

Edited December 5, 2014 by seedy

[seedy]

Begs the question what SVOA thought by saying it needs a new motherboard when the small independent shop found the cause almost immediately.

And a Toshiba authorized repair center too ! Maybe milk the manufacturer as much as possible ? I am sure happens everywhere too !

[laislica]

Just to add to the things we don't know....

I had a desktop where one of the HDDs became faulty after ages of good operation.

Win 7, 64 bit.

The dodgy 1Tb Green, actually stopped the OS from beginning POST!

If it didn't start, I'd switch off for a few seconds and back on and usually before the fifth time it started normally.

It took ages to find the fault but once that HDD was replaced, all was good.

It was not the boot HDD.

I suppose I could have tried a replacement circuit board, but ...... Easier to change and not that expensive, used the replacement to use a 2Tb, can't have enough disk space LOL

(I went for the Green cos of the lower speed spec and less power consumption so cooler operation)

[Pib]

Begs the question what SVOA thought by saying it needs a new motherboard when the small independent shop found the cause almost immediately.

And a Toshiba authorized repair center too ! Maybe milk the manufacturer as much as possible ? I am sure happens everywhere too !

Maybe SVOA is one of those electronic repair shops that does not accomplish detailed troubleshooting or component replacement on major assemblies like a motherboard. Basically, they have made the business decision (or don't have the expertise or equipment) to accomplish component level repair/replacement on motherboards unless its something minor and easy to repair. They will troubleshoot down to a certain level, like determine the problem is a faulty component on the motherboard somewhere, stop at that point, and tell the customer a new motherboard is required. Maybe an analogy would be they won't fix a flat tire but will sure sell you a new replacement tire.

[Pib]

Just to add to the things we don't know....

I had a desktop where one of the HDDs became faulty after ages of good operation.

Win 7, 64 bit.

The dodgy 1Tb Green, actually stopped the OS from beginning POST!

If it didn't start, I'd switch off for a few seconds and back on and usually before the fifth time it started normally.

It took ages to find the fault but once that HDD was replaced, all was good.

It was not the boot HDD.

I suppose I could have tried a replacement circuit board, but ...... Easier to change and not that expensive, used the replacement to use a 2Tb, can't have enough disk space LOL

(I went for the Green cos of the lower speed spec and less power consumption so cooler operation)

Major failure of the hard drive circuit board could sure cause that problem, especially if a short circuit is dragging down the power supply voltages. But a person could have removed the hard drive to see if the computer would then start up to a point, like allow you to get into the BIOS or you get the error message that no drive can be found. But with my video chip problem it was like flipping a light switch on and then immediately switching it off...the computer would basically shut itself down within a second or two of turning the power switch on...and the screen stayed black the whole time.

[laislica]

Just to add to the things we don't know....

I had a desktop where one of the HDDs became faulty after ages of good operation.

Win 7, 64 bit.

The dodgy 1Tb Green, actually stopped the OS from beginning POST!

If it didn't start, I'd switch off for a few seconds and back on and usually before the fifth time it started normally.

It took ages to find the fault but once that HDD was replaced, all was good.

It was not the boot HDD.

I suppose I could have tried a replacement circuit board, but ...... Easier to change and not that expensive, used the replacement to use a 2Tb, can't have enough disk space LOL

(I went for the Green cos of the lower speed spec and less power consumption so cooler operation)

Major failure of the hard drive circuit board could sure cause that problem, especially if a short circuit is dragging down the power supply voltages. But a person could have removed the hard drive to see if the computer would then start up to a point, like allow you to get into the BIOS or you get the error message that no drive can be found. But with my video chip problem it was like flipping a light switch on and then immediately switching it off...the computer would basically shut itself down within a second or two of turning the power switch on...and the screen stayed black the whole time.

It was the intermittent nature of the fault that was so frustrating, it was only after the fault started to affect file transfer and induce power off type shut down that I started to investigate HDDs. Previously, I had unplugged, cleaned all ribbon and power connections to the mother board and that seemed to help - not, as it turned out LOL

BTW, thanks for your many and informative posts.

[seedy]

Got tied up and will not pick up until tomorrow morning. Updates when I get it home and use for a bit.

Many thanks to all who took the time too share their expertise on this subject. Invaluable.

Be Well.

[seedy]

The Saga continues.

New video card did Nada. Trying something else today.

If worst come true, and it can not be fixed in LOS, can the two HDD be removed, placed in a box, and used with another laptop ? He has some used ones for sale - refurb - for 5000 - 6000 baht. My thought was to copy my C drive onto new laptop and use the internal HDD's in an external box until return to Canada in May.

Maybe it can be repaired back there.

Your thoughts ?

[Pib]

Sure, hard or solid state drives can be removed from one computer and put in another or in external boxes. In fact most of my drives living in external boxes now use to be the primary drive in my laptops...or they got moved/cloned from one laptop to another for whatever reason like a drive upgrade. You would be able to access your data no problem with the drives in an external box. However, don't expect the drive which has the operating system on it to allow another computer to boot since the operating system will sense it's now in another computer which the operating system may not allow...you may have to do a complete reload of your operating system...plus the drivers that would try to load are for your old laptop which probably uses different drivers unless you bought an exact model computer of the one that died.

[seedy]

Thanks Pib !

Edited December 13, 2014 by seedy

[Hmmm]

IME there is a tendency in Thailand when a technical business cannot diagnose the source of a problem, they will often say that the whole motherboard / car engine management computer / operating system / hard drive / <insert-name-of-a-big-single-part> needs replacing.

I have seen this go badly wrong on a number of occasions, ie the problem not solved and major cost incurred.

I wonder if this is a "face" thing. ie the technician or the company does not want to admit to the customer that they can't diagnose the specific problem, so they propose a blanket, over-the-top, expensive solution. Of course the bigger the proposed replacement part the chances of that fixing the problem are often pretty good, even if it was totally unnecessary. Unfortunately it sometimes makes no difference to the real problem, and you are still billed for that big part, and the company refuses responsibility.

If such a "solution" is ever proposed, you must get a gaurantee that if it doesn't solve the problem, you won't get charged for the part and the system will be returned to you in its original state.

The best approach is to google/trawl the international forums for your laptop, for other people with a similar problem. While the posters here at TV are knowledgeable, there is more specific expertise elsewhere. Then order the part yourself and if necessary, learn how to install it. It's usually not that difficult.

Having said all that, it is faintly possible that your laptop does really need a new motherboard. But if so you are better off buying a new laptop.

[seedy]

Thanks Hmmm. My first effort was a trawl of the net. In almost all cases the cause was overheating. My fan works same as always, and was just in for a clean and check over in Sept.

We will see.

[seedy]

Just got the call. Unable to fix. First Tech tried for over a week. Sent it to another man, same story.

The nice thing - always try and find something good ! - is there is no charge for the attempted repair.

Reason given - I was unable to repair it, so no charge.

Always a first time !

[seedy]

I stand corrected.

Rode to town, stopped for a haircut. GF gets a fone call ...

Seems there was a misunderstanding between Mr. Wit and the second tech. both assumed the other had replaced the VGA chip.

What a VGA chip is doing in a laptop these days is a complete mystery to me - have not used them since HDMI appeared.

Anyway, tech #2 changed the chip.

Works just like it used to, on AC power and battery.

Seems the bad VGA chip was telling the computer to shut down, and the reason for the problem was the self same chip.

Highly recommend this man - when I got the call yesterday saying he could not fix it, I asked what the bill was.

His reply - nothing. I was not able to fix it, so no charge.

[Pib]

Good to see your machine is fixed. As I mentioned in post #31 the video chip on my 7 year Toshiba caused the same problem.

Video chips are still used in the better laptops because the video capability that comes built into CPUs now days is not that powerful....fine for basic video like browsing, most office productivity products like word processors, spreadsheets, basic graphics, etc., but not really enough for any serious video or gaming stuff which requires some real video horsepower....the CPUs built-in video capability will work for serious video and games but time to complete tasks, smoothness of the game video, etc., will be noticeably affected.

And depending on the age of the machine, like my 7 year Toshiba, its CPU which is a Pentium Core Duo does not come with video built in; a separate video chip provides the video capability. Even my one year Lenovo i7 quad core CPU machine which does have video built into the CPU which is used the great majority of time also comes with a separate video chip for plenty of horsepower when running games, etc...drivers tell the machine which video capability to use (ie., CPU built-in video or separate video chip) depending on the video horsepower need.

[slipperylobster]

If it turns out to be the adapter, then do the best you can to get an original. I fried my last laptop while it was recharging. It was an ASUS. It actually burned the motherboard...unfixable. (7000 baht new). The adapter was 600 baht, and I was to lazy to order an original. It sort of worked, but never fit right. The amp output was in range....but I think it put out more than it was supposed to

[seedy]

This thing will not resolve itself.

Worked fine from about 1500 until 2000 last nite. Then shut itself off again.

Removed battery, took 2 restarts to stay on. Been asleep all nite.

Afraid to wake it up !

Got another tech I was told about. Round 3 !

[Pib]

Why don't you try booting directly into your BIOS. Then just let it set on that BIOS screen for X-hours/overnight. If it stays on OK then the only real difference between that a complete boot up into Windows is operating system is not involved. While the computer circuits would see less activity (less work) because the operating system is not making the computer due various this, this still might give more of an idea if the problem is hardware related or operating system related. Good luck.

[seedy]

Why don't you try booting directly into your BIOS. Then just let it set on that BIOS screen for X-hours/overnight. If it stays on OK then the only real difference between that a complete boot up into Windows is operating system is not involved. While the computer circuits would see less activity (less work) because the operating system is not making the computer due various this, this still might give more of an idea if the problem is hardware related or operating system related. Good luck.

Thanks Pib. Will try that this morning before the shopping expedition.

The tech did put in apps to stress the CPU, as well as temp readings at various places, and fan speed. All log the results. All results normal, except that it says battery is not 100%, but expected in an 18 month machine.

If OK on BIOS, but not on Windows, this indicates an operating system problem ?

Edited December 26, 2014 by seedy

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Is this thread still going? Didn't someone ask about the model number back in November?

[Pib]

If OK on BIOS, but not on Windows, this indicates an operating system problem ?

I could be. But it just gives you another indicator when combined with other indicators which may help narrow down the problem. Software/drivers can definitely cause a computer to experience weird & intermittent problems....and you may get misdirected as to where the problem really lies...a person can start blaming the hardware when it software related and vice-versa. But your problem sounds hardware related to me.

[seedy]

Update - did what you suggested Pib, booted into BIOS and left it. No issues.

After about 30 hours, shut down, and tried restart. Took 8 to 10 times before it came on and stayed on.

Since then have left it in sleep mode overnight, every night. Battery in, battery out.

As a test, after 2 days with only AC power, I inserted battery, unplugged AC, took it outside onto my deck, no issues.

Since then, it has been plugged in, battery in, used normally, put to sleep each night, but never shut down.

The Mind Boggles.

My thought - please correct me if I am wrong - instead of spending any more $$ here, if the performance remains the same, I will never shut down until I get on the bird in May for work. Take it into the place I bought it, and have them diagnose.

Any questions - answered directly. Any suggestions - gratefully appreciated and will follow them.

[Pib]

You just may have some corrupt operating system files only used during initial boot which is causing your problem or the boot area of your hard drive has a problem. When the boot drive is going bad or you have some corrupt boot files, booting can take a long time if it decides to boot at all.

You might want to try creating yourself a bootable DVD (if you have a DVD drive) or USB stick. Try booting that way to see if the computer starts easily each time and stays running.

Or maybe since you said it had two hard 750GB hard drives move any data you have on the second drive to your 1st drive, then move that second drive to the first drives position (or just leave that 1st drive out for a while), and reload Windows onto that drive...that is, do a new operating system install on your 2nd drive....then see what happens.

Or maybe do a repair install of your operating system since windows allows that.

Trying this would determine if its a hard drive or operating system problem.

[seedy]

You might want to try creating yourself a bootable DVD (if you have a DVD drive) or USB stick. Try booting that way to see if the computer starts easily each time and stays running.

If I understand you correctly ...

C: drive has all the operating system files on it.

D: drive is empty

Copy all C: files onto D: drive, remove C physically, plug D into where C was leaving D slot empty

Try restart.

[Pib]

Pretty close. If some operating files on Drive C are corrupt, then "cloning" C drive to D drive will just duplicate the problem. The reason I emphasized "cloning" is because you would need to accomplish a clone operation versus just trying to copy over files. Some of the operating system files are hidden files and placed at very specific areas on a drive which a copy operation won't accomplish for you.

Now, if none of the files are corrupt and instead it's a drive hardware problem, then cloning from C drive to D drive, removing C Drive, moving the old D Drive (which is now a cloned C drive) to the C drive position, then the computer should boot fine.

.

But if some files were corrupt the you need to "reinstall or repair" Windows. By reinstall I mean basically a Format C Drive and reinstall Windows. And by repair I mean run the Repair/fix function which I've never had much luck with over the years.

Before doing any of this I would recommend you do an "image" backup of your drive(s) to an external drive...be sure to create the recovery disk during this imaging process.

Before you do any of this you might want to create that separate bootable DVD/USB stick, boot from that to see what happens. Good luck.