US Social Security - Does Thailand report my earnings?

[dslocum]

I'm about 2 years from US retirement, but would like to start teaching with TEFL (or similar) in TH. Does TH report my earnings to US?

[wayned]

No

[bkkcanuck8]

No

Question,

Did your financial institution ask you if you were American and what your social insurance number is? If they did, then your financial institution might have done reporting on interest income (though it is probably too little to infer what you make). I know I have programmed US tax reporting into systems for other countries to use.... it is part of agreements to report any financial account information (capital gains, interest, withdrawals etc.). (can't remember all that is part of it). These days with all the pressure from the US on tax havens etc, many countries will either reject Americans -- or ask for your social insurance number and report back to the IRS the same that any American company would. Either way, if it is just teaching salary -- you would never really owe enough tax to make it worth it. Either way, you are suppose to fill out your tax return in either case (luckily I am not American - their rules suck ).

[paz]

It's not just about USA, it's global.

http://www.oecd.org/ctp/exchange-of-tax-information/

[soundman]

Not really Visa related. Moved, to business, banking and finance forum.

[JLCrab]

When you apply for SS benefits you will be asked:

Did you work outside the US for salary, wages, or self-employment in (current year)?

Answer up-to-you.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/EN-05-10523.pdf

[wayned]

The link provided in post number 4 refers to OCED (Organization for Economic Co‑operation and Development) or G20 member countries. Thailand is not currently an OCED member.

[bkkcanuck8]

It's not just about USA, it's global.

http://www.oecd.org/ctp/exchange-of-tax-information/

Not quite the same. For no other country was there the inclusion of tax numbers. For no other countries were the systems automatically withholding US withholding tax on interest and capital gains (other than the country the system was in). The extent with the US goes much farther. Not many countries tax individuals on worldwide income.

Now I do not that as of Jan 1st 2015, the Canadian Revenue Agency (CRA - aka IRS Canada) will have to receive the same reports that is done for money laundering... i.e. any transfer of $10,000 or more will have to be reported to CRA. It makes it more difficult to move money offshore for income evasion but really only catches the big fish in the net.

I am not legally required to file a Canadian Tax return either - the US requires that of every citizen unless you renounce citizenship (which more and more people are doing). All that was required was for me to leave canada and close all credit cards and bank accounts and stay out of the country for 3+ years (2+ years if the intent is longer and you actually file the appropriate paperwork when you leave).

The problem is that banks all over the world have some operations in the US and therefore are at risk if they allow Americans to set up offshore accounts like they did before.... so international banks are treating Americans like pariah...

Edited December 4, 2014 by bkkcanuck8

[BKKSnowBird]

If you teach in Thailand, you do not pay fica tax on your earnings in most cases.

The bad news is you will get a $0 averaged in to your work history. Social Security retirement will use your 35 highest years to calculate how much you get per month.

[bkkcanuck8]

If you teach in Thailand, you do not pay fica tax on your earnings in most cases.

The bad news is you will get a $0 averaged in to your work history. Social Security retirement will use your 35 highest years to calculate how much you get per month.

That screws me.... I only have 3 years.... so I have a lot of 0s averaged in

[BKKSnowBird]

If you teach in Thailand, you do not pay fica tax on your earnings in most cases.

The bad news is you will get a $0 averaged in to your work history. Social Security retirement will use your 35 highest years to calculate how much you get per month.

That screws me.... I only have 3 years.... so I have a lot of 0s averaged in

How old are you? You need at least 10 years (40 quarters) to get anything at 62, 67 or 70. The amount is calculated using 35 years.

[bkkcanuck8]

50 years old..... I worked in the US for 3 years.... not planning on ever going back so it is a write-off.... of course it is a big pyramid scheme so they need more people like me.... many more....

[BKKSnowBird]

Well in 3 years you did not pay much so who cares. I guess you were smart and saved elsewhere.

[bunnydrops]

I believe you can make about $14,000 before the SS begins reducing the amount you receive at $1 for every $2 you earn over that amount. Besides the annual tax report you file, you have to do a Fbar report every year informing the US of any assets over $10,000 held outside the country. Thai banks now report that to the US.

Anyway if you don't have any other income and you have a 35000 baht a month teaching job, you don't have much to worry about.

[BKKSnowBird]

I believe you can make about $14,000 before the SS begins reducing the amount you receive at $1 for every $2 you earn over that amount. Besides the annual tax report you file, you have to do a Fbar report every year informing the US of any assets over $10,000 held outside the country. Thai banks now report that to the US.

Anyway if you don't have any other income and you have a 35000 baht a month teaching job, you don't have much to worry about.

If under full retirement age and working in Thailand he is subject to the foreign work test and can not work over 45 hours in a month. If he plans to teach he is better off waiting to collect until FRA or 70.

I think finding a job when over 60 is going to be the real problem so why bother.

[paz]

It's not just about USA, it's global.

http://www.oecd.org/ctp/exchange-of-tax-information/

Not quite the same. For no other country was there the inclusion of tax numbers. For no other countries were the systems automatically withholding US withholding tax on interest and capital gains (other than the country the system was in). The extent with the US goes much farther. Not many countries tax individuals on worldwide income.

What I'm trying to say is just that on the matter of tax information exchanges, things are changing rapidly

http://finops.co/regulations/reporting/gatca-brace-for-fatca-on-steroids/

[bkkcanuck8]

It's not just about USA, it's global.

http://www.oecd.org/ctp/exchange-of-tax-information/

Not quite the same. For no other country was there the inclusion of tax numbers. For no other countries were the systems automatically withholding US withholding tax on interest and capital gains (other than the country the system was in). The extent with the US goes much farther. Not many countries tax individuals on worldwide income.

What I'm trying to say is just that on the matter of tax information exchanges, things are changing rapidly

http://finops.co/regulations/reporting/gatca-brace-for-fatca-on-steroids/

Cool..... I did most of the work for FACTA in one system, maybe they will get me to do all the additional bilateral agreements

[bkkcanuck8]

At least HK and Singapore are not part of the group yet

[BKKSnowBird]

At least HK and Singapore are not part of the group yet

The OP is not asking about banking. He is asking about working.

His earning will not be reported to the IRS or SS but he is still required to report it on his 1040 and use 2555 to use the foreign income exclusion.

US citizens are taxed on world wide income. The good news is we can collect our SS with COLAs almost anywhere we want. I hope this does not change.

Edited December 5, 2014 by BKKSnowBird

[bkkcanuck8]

At least HK and Singapore are not part of the group yet

The OP is not asking about banking. He is asking about working.

We know that, that was answered in the first reply.

BUT, One of the most common way for tax evaders getting paid under the table in Canada (and probably other nations) to get caught is by having unexplained transactions / deposits in one's bank account. I know of at least 4 people caught that way.

[gk10002000]

Just following what another poster wrote. While I don't recommend paying anything more into social security than is absolutely necessary because in general it is a negative return on your investment, if you have overseas earnings, you can pay into FICA and get credit for those monies earned. The FICA monies will not be automatically withheld as if you had an American paycheck, but at tax time you can pay into Social Security.

[brianp0803]

I thought they averaged the highest 30 years salary in the calculation. worked about 27 years as an engineer and more years at low salary. I thought I only had a few zeros.

If living outside the US for 330 days ir more then there is a very large income exclusion(close to $100,000) and no federal tax consequences. But California still want tax.

Now I am concerned FICA may be expecting money on foreign earned income.

[BKKSnowBird]

They pick your 35 highest years. Your less earning years are better than a zero obviously. Not sure where you got 30 years from.

[Pib]

And cut and paste from a document on the Social Security Web site explaining how your benefit is calculated:

Many people wonder how their benefit is figured. Social Security benefits are based on

your lifetime earnings. Your actual earnings are adjusted or “indexed” to account for changes

in average wages since the year the earnings were received. Then Social Security calculates

your average indexed monthly earnings during the 35 years in which you earned the most. We

apply a formula to these earnings and arrive at your basic benefit, or “primary insurance

amount”. This is how much you would receiveat your full retirement age—65 or older,

depending on your date of birth.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Pib

[brianp0803]

Thank you for the correction.

27 years paying maximum social security I should get good social security along with pension. I know someone gets $1100 a month from 40 years at close to minimum wage.

Will FICA expect money on my reported foreign income? Even working part time as a student I think my wages were higher than a teacher. I thought no benefit or harm from reporting my teaching wages.

Low foreign income when living abroad has no impact on my federal taxes but worry now if

[BKKSnowBird]

27 years paying the max should yeild close to the max. You may not even have any 0s. You can create a MySSA account and see for sure. One poster said you can pay if you want but sounds like it would not help you.

Btw, the max is $2642 in 2014. 1.7% COLA increase this year.

[phuketrichard]

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If you teach in Thailand, you do not pay fica tax on your earnings in most cases.

The bad news is you will get a $0 averaged in to your work history.

That screws me.... I only have 3 years.... so I have a lot of 0s averaged in

u need 10 years of paying in to get SS

40 Quarters, I have LOTS of zero years LOL

I make the MIN $302/month

[Pib]

I thought they averaged the highest 30 years salary in the calculation. worked about 27 years as an engineer and more years at low salary. I thought I only had a few zeros.

If living outside the US for 330 days ir more then there is a very large income exclusion(close to $100,000) and no federal tax consequences. But California still want tax.

Now I am concerned FICA may be expecting money on foreign earned income.

All depends on what the salary was for those 27 years...occupation don't matter....it all depends on what your salary was as an engineer, janitor, or whatever.

This IRS webpage should help in determining if you owe FICA or not. Link.

And of course when it comes to state tax the laws vary greatly from state to state, but California is known as being an aggressive state in pursuing taxes from residents and former residents.

[BKKSnowBird]

He said he paid the max for 27 years. It changes every year but is 117k I think this year.

[brianp0803]

The last 15 years or more they stopped taking out social security around November. Maybe the previous 10 years didn't max out social security but probably close.

California is aggressive about getting taxes but not sure what benefits they give a working or retired person and not benefits if retire in Thailand.

I am slowly converting my IRA to ROTH but only converting enough to stay in the lowest tax bracket. California is getting taxes. I should have most converted by the time I am 65.