Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[annabel]

Thai Newspaper wrote David and Hannah family believe the Burmese suspects are actual suspects not scapegoats. David and Hannah family have never said that.

[balo]

The family must be protecting the rich headsman son now too? This conspiracy has just grown -- thank god for the social media detectives to point our all the implausible reason why these two are not solid suspects and a rich the son of an island headsman, who was not on the island at the time, really did this.

who says he was not on the island at the time? you?

Do you really think the British police didn't look into this ? Its very easy to check with the university and also to confirm that the CCTV footage is real, or do you think that the university and their teachers are also involved in this big "cover up"?

Obviously the British police didn't look into this or anything much else. Their job was simply to parrot the part of the Thai police report that said they were satisfied that the headman's son had a cast iron alibi and was definitely in Bangkok at the time of the murders.

And how do you know all this ? Obviously you don't have a clue what the British investigators did in Thailand. Unless you work for them .

[jdinasia]

as if what ever was presented to the families and S.Y.. wouldnt concur with the rtp line.

any and all evidence that pointed in another direction would be well and truly

destroyed.

this is the whole problem from the very first report and the crimescene being trampled

there has been a problem with 'evidence'

So you think that the UK police are so inept that they wouldn't see through your conspiracy theory?

So YOU tell me what the UK police would have said to THAILAND IF they were not happy.

YOU tell me if the UK police have told THAILAND the UK police are happy or not.

YOU have the answers to everything so please tell.............

The UK police were not talking to Thailand. They were talking to the families of the victims.

I don't have the answers, which is why I want a trial. Strangely (not) the families of the victims want a trial too.

DNA from another was found on the deceased, YOU never mention the fact that it was a "gang" thing, YOU just want two blokes to get strung up and the REAL case closed.

VERY strange.....................

And again I don't have all the answers. That is what a trial is for.

You severely chastised me about the feelings of the victims' families in the past, yet here you are ignoring those feelings.

[JohnThailandJohn]

The parents obviously have little understanding of just how entrenched graft is here, it is not fair to blame them for taking the word of Thai authorities as gospel.

Thought they spoke to UK investigators before releasing their statements? UK investigators who examined the evidence and handling of the case first hand.

We assume the UK experts looked at evidence. But how much of that could they do (?) if only in Thailand a few days, and under restraint of only being 'observers' and not participants in the investigation. They don't speak Thai. There could have been many instances where the Brits asked something like "what did so 'n so say? Did you question him?" ...and Thai authorities respond, "Yes, we talked to him. He has nothing significant to add." OR, the Brits could ask, "did you find any bloody clothes anywhere?" ....and the Thai cops respond, "No bloody clothes anywhere. No laundry. No indications of clothes being burnt or buried." Similar dialogue for phone records, CCTV, weapons, Nomsod's alibi, a prime suspect on the beach the next morning, the cop who threatened Sean, The 'Stingray Man' with the shark-tooth ring, etc.

You get the picture? The Brits are not allowed to question anyone (other than RTP) at Ko Tao, and aren't allowed to do any independent investigating there. Granted, the Brits supposedly did DNA testing on the victims (though aren't allowed by Thai officials, to see DNA profile of some suspects), but we haven't heard anything from the Brits about DNA. Thus far, 100% of DNA commentary has come from the Thais, and they've made it crystal clear which direction they want this investigation to go.

Police from one country tend to trust police from another. This case could put a serious crimp in that trust, if it's proved that Thai cops lied to UK experts, in order to further Thai officials' agenda. I await the DNA trail from the Brits. If it points to the B2, I will agree the B2 are guilty of rape. Judging from DNA claims by Thai officials, I can't say the same.

Weren't you one of the ones all confident of and in favor of UK authorities looking into the case? Now you don't like their findings appear to be so they are either incompetent or involved in the cover up.

[Dogmatix]

I wonder how these statements might have read and how impressed the plods would have been by the perfect textbook investigation of their uncorruptible, unbungling Thai counterparts, if the latter had stuck to their original plan to fit up David's friend and travelling companion, Chris Ware, in pursuit of which they claimed he had committed the rape and murders in a hissy fit of homosexual rage and jealousy.

It's lucky that Burmese are people no consequence in the UK or Thailand but I wonder how Chris Ware feels knowing it could so easily have been him facing trial.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Dogmatix

[jdinasia]

The family must be protecting the rich headsman son now too? This conspiracy has just grown -- thank god for the social media detectives to point our all the implausible reason why these two are not solid suspects and a rich the son of an island headsman, who was not on the island at the time, really did this.

who says he was not on the island at the time? you?

Do you really think the British police didn't look into this ? Its very easy to check with the university and also to confirm that the CCTV footage is real, or do you think that the university and their teachers are also involved in this big "cover up"?

Obviously the British police didn't look into this or anything much else. Their job was simply to parrot the part of the Thai police report that said they were satisfied that the headman's son had a cast iron alibi and was definitely in Bangkok at the time of the murders.

Quite a change from your initial assessment of the UK police, isn't that?

[JohnThailandJohn]

Thai Newspaper wrote David and Hannah family believe the Burmese suspects are actual suspects not scapegoats. David and Hannah family have never said that.

Like · · Share · 2,933268106

Must be a conspiracy since this paper paraphrased the family's statement for a headline.

[lil fluffy clouds]

Interesting how so many people jump to conclusions,

"Appears to be convincing" has a completely different connotation from "we are convinced"...

I would suggest that many posters study up on the subtleties of language...

This statement was written by professionals.

[Dogmatix]

Quite a change from your initial assessment of the UK police, isn't that?

No.

[CharlieH]

Thai articles and Thai text removed.

[JohnThailandJohn]

I wonder how these statements might have read and how impressed the plods would have been by the perfect textbook investigation of their uncorruptible, unbungling Thai counterparts, if the latter had stuck to their original plan to fit up David's friend and travelling companion, Chris Ware, in pursuit of which they claimed he had committed the rape and murders in a hissy fit of homosexual rage and jealousy.

It's lucky that Burmese are people no consequence in the UK or Thailand but I wonder how Chris Ware feels knowing it could so easily have been him facing trial.

I think you would have to be clueless to believe the police should not have investigated EXTREMELY thoroughly their friends initially. However they should not have speculated or released so much information about this but just as bad is people pretending them looking closely at their friends initially was not normal and right.

As you put it, the police also tried to "stitch up" others early on including how they publicly accused the son of the island headsman (same one every believes they are too scared to arrest) until they found out they were barking up the wrong tree there too. All absolutely normal in an investigation like this except the police releasing info too early about their leads and worse thinking the leads were real before following up.

Edited December 7, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[Dogmatix]

Thai Newspaper wrote David and Hannah family believe the Burmese suspects are actual suspects not scapegoats. David and Hannah family have never said that.

Must be a conspiracy since this paper paraphrased the family's statement for a headline.

And just below the main Thai Rath headline, which you correctly translated it says,

" Families of the two farangs announce they are confident that the two Burmese are the murderers."

So much for a fair trial and presumption of innocence until proved otherwise.

[jdinasia]

Thai Newspaper wrote David and Hannah family believe the Burmese suspects are actual suspects not scapegoats. David and Hannah family have never said that.

Must be a conspiracy since this paper paraphrased the family's statement for a headline.

And just below the main Thai Rath headline, which you correctly translated it says,

" Families of the two farangs announce they are confident that the two Burmese are the murderers."

So much for a fair trial and presumption of innocence until proved otherwise.

You are quite aware that there is no jury pool to contaminate.

[Dogmatix]

I wonder how these statements might have read and how impressed the plods would have been by the perfect textbook investigation of their uncorruptible, unbungling Thai counterparts, if the latter had stuck to their original plan to fit up David's friend and travelling companion, Chris Ware, in pursuit of which they claimed he had committed the rape and murders in a hissy fit of homosexual rage and jealousy.

It's lucky that Burmese are people no consequence in the UK or Thailand but I wonder how Chris Ware feels knowing it could so easily have been him facing trial.

I think you would have to be clueless to believe the police should not have investigated EXTREMELY thoroughly their friends initially. However they should not have speculated or released so much information about this but just as bad is people pretending them looking closely at their friends initially was not normal and right.

As you put it, the police also tried to "stitch up" others early on including how they publicly accused the son of the island headsman (same one every believes they are too scared to arrest) until they found out they were barking up the wrong tree there too. All absolutely normal in an investigation like this except the police releasing info too early about their leads and worse thinking the leads were real before following up.

In case you have never noticed or have only just arrived it is standard operating procedure to publicly accuse suspects to up the anti at the negotiating table. Remember Chalerm making a big song and a dance in the media about the killing of the police sergeant by the Red Bull brat before everything went stonily silent on that case.

[jdinasia]

Interesting how so many people jump to conclusions,

"Appears to be convincing" has a completely different connotation from "we are convinced"...

I would suggest that many posters study up on the subtleties of language...

This statement was written by professionals.

Not at all. A trial is required.

[joebrown]

Someone in an earlier post said it takes 2 sides to keep a conspiracy theory alive. I agree with this logic. In fact JTJ and JD have said that the conspiracy theorists should stop posting as a show of respect for the families' wishes. Some people also suggested that this thread should be closed down by the TV Moderators to halt further speculation. For the conspiracy theory to exist it needs the 'oxygen' of claim and rebuttal.

My question is why do none of you switch-off the 'oxygen' or close down the thread to STOP the continual and blatant disrespect for the families' stated wishes? Let's have some reasoned explanation as to why you keep this conspiracy theory alive against the families' expressed wishes.

I would appreciate separate answers from 1. Global Moderators, 2. JD, 3. JTJ. and 4 JOC.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Interesting how so many people jump to conclusions,

"Appears to be convincing" has a completely different connotation from "we are convinced"...

I would suggest that many posters study up on the subtleties of language...

This statement was written by professionals.

Statements from family who met with UK Investigators who examined the police work and evidence while in Thailand...

From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing

There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us.

We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes.....

Nobody is saying including the families that these two should be found guilty without a trial but what clearly seems to being said is these two should stand trial based on the evidence that appears pretty convincing at this point ... unlike the complete lack of evidence and actual evidence disproving the son of the small island headsman had anything to do with the murders.

Lets stop trying to pick apart their words --- clearly they have indicated the believe the right people are about to stand trial and nothing they said indicates they believe others may be responsible or that anything is being covered up. These are people only motivated by seeing justice done and who have much more info on the case than any of us.

Edited December 7, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[Dogmatix]

Do you really think the British police didn't look into this ? Its very easy to check with the university and also to confirm that the CCTV footage is real, or do you think that the university and their teachers are also involved in this big "cover up"?

Obviously the British police didn't look into this or anything much else. Their job was simply to parrot the part of the Thai police report that said they were satisfied that the headman's son had a cast iron alibi and was definitely in Bangkok at the time of the murders.

And how do you know all this ? Obviously you don't have a clue what the British investigators did in Thailand. Unless you work for them .

Well, it is hardly likely that the plods got hold of the CCTV footage from BU and quizzed students and teachers there, isn't it?

[Dogmatix]

So Cameron took credit by bowing to public pressure for UK police involvement and also probably deflects any further calls for UK police to investigate the murders of Brits abroad because their families and friends know there is no point. Thailand will probably reward the UK with some business deals. After all British embassies under Cameron are only supposed to promote trade. The interests of UK citizens have virtually fallen off the priority list and nearly all consular staff are now locals who have conflicts of interests.

It actually looks as if the timing of this press releases is designed to make the defence lawyers capitulate and advice their clients to plead guilty to try to avoid the death penalty. Anyway the Metropolitan Police does have an unenviable reputation for corruption, even if they are amateurs compared to their Thai counterparts.

The prosecutor's report is incredibly flimsy and weak. With the British police being so supportive of the investigation, bungling and torture included, one would have expected something more substantial. I wonder how the prosecution will explain the strange "hoe" wounds inflicted on David. . I suppose they will just say it's in the police forensic report, so must be true.

Congratulations you not only insult the families of the victims, you add the UK police and FCO and the UK government into your conspiracy theories.

Thank you for your kind words, jdinasia.

[CharlieH]

Post containing Thai txt and links to CSI have been removed

[catsanddogs]

The Miller family said in the FCO released memo: Further speculation should be put aside until all the evidence is made public and appropriate conclusions can be drawn.

Net result: Speculation as to why they would request there be no further speculation.

It is too late in the day for the families request to be honoured in my opinion. Had Scotland Yard issued a statement on their return to the UK assuring the public that statements were/would be been taken from all UK friends of the victims who were in Koh Tao at the time of the murders, the speculation may not have been so widespread.

[JohnThailandJohn]

And how do you know all this ? Obviously you don't have a clue what the British investigators did in Thailand. Unless you work for them .

Well, it is hardly likely that the plods got hold of the CCTV footage from BU and quizzed students and teachers there, isn't it?

More likely they were just incompetent fools who the far superior Thai investigators were able to dupe -- either that or they got paid off by the village headsman too.

Interesting what great respect everyone had for the UK and their investigators until they get a glimpse of their views in this case that don't seem to indicate a cover up and that the right people are about to go on trial.

Edited December 7, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[JohnThailandJohn]

Apparently the families of the victims have come out to say that they did NOT make those statements.

Is this what you need to stoop to at this point?

[jdinasia]

Deleted

Edited December 7, 2014 by jdinasia

[CharlieH]

A post without credible source, and therefore "rumor" has been removed

[draftvader]

This will be the same 23 pages I've read before. Forgive me if this has been covered but I STILL don't see any sign of this statement through the FCO. This time a search on "Witheridge".

https://www.gov.uk/government/announcements?keywords=witheridge&announcement_filter_option=all&topics[]=all&departments[]=foreign-commonwealth-office&world_locations[]=all&from_date=&to_date=

My problem is that we have seen a couple of announcements that appear to have come from the families. In those statements they are unclear as to which investigation they are in agreement with. The worst part of this is that the official mouthpiece of the FCO has not published ANY statement whereas the media reports I have read state that this statement has been released "through" the FCO yet the FCO has NOT released ANY statement on this case since the October 13th. This does call into question the veracity of this press release.

As a Brit I find this statement HIGHLY unusual as it is NOT a part of any media case that I have ever experienced being relayed through the British media. Not to say that this can't be true but it is incredibly unusual AND not an official statement from the FCO.

IF anybody has any doubt as to the thoroughness of the FCO media department please understand that the unfortunate death of the Brit/US hostage in the Yemen has got a statement and that happened within the past 24 hours.

[Oscar2]

The report said the families back the police investigation,

which police are they talking about, the Thai or the UK's?

Use your head --- only one police department investigated the case and are involved in filing and bringing charges. The UK police just reported on and examined the Thai investigation and evidence the Thai police already collected. The statement is very clear in showing gratitude to the Thai police for letting the UK police review the case and to the UK police for doing so and reporting directly back to the parents about the strength and credibility of the case.

that may be the way you see things - or your employer.

[JohnThailandJohn]

The Miller family said in the FCO released memo: Further speculation should be put aside until all the evidence is made public and appropriate conclusions can be drawn.

Net result: Speculation as to why they would request there be no further speculation.

It is too late in the day for the families request to be honoured in my opinion. Had Scotland Yard issued a statement on their return to the UK assuring the public that statements were/would be been taken from all UK friends of the victims who were in Koh Tao at the time of the murders, the speculation may not have been so widespread.

I think it would be highly wrong for UK authorities to release any such finding on the case given it is an ongoing and open case. I would agree with them releasing either very general statements such as they are confident in the Thai investigators abilities and Thai justice system (something along these lines to indicate they found no reason to distrust). Anything else could be viewed as influencing the case, especially if they revealed what they did or who they spoke to. This could be used by the defense to claim a kind of pressure from the UK Government to convict their clients. On the other hand, if they found there was some kind of cover-up happening, I would agree with them immediately making such findings public and very loudly.

[JOC]

Someone in an earlier post said it takes 2 sides to keep a conspiracy theory alive. I agree with this logic. In fact JTJ and JD have said that the conspiracy theorists should stop posting as a show of respect for the families' wishes. Some people also suggested that this thread should be closed down by the TV Moderators to halt further speculation. For the conspiracy theory to exist it needs the 'oxygen' of claim and rebuttal.

My question is why do none of you switch-off the 'oxygen' or close down the thread to STOP the continual and blatant disrespect for the families' stated wishes? Let's have some reasoned explanation as to why you keep this conspiracy theory alive against the families' expressed wishes.

I would appreciate separate answers from 1. Global Moderators, 2. JD, 3. JTJ. and 4 JOC.

Let me start!!

First all I have 2 (two) posts on the topic today. (this is my third).

If posters like me don't reply to the nonsense posted by JD and TJT, their post are going to stay on here unchallenged.

As for posting here against the families wishes, as long as the thread stays open and I post within the rules of the the forum, why shouldn't I be free to share my opinion? If the parents don't like the posts here (from either side), don't log in to Thaivisa. Simple as that!!

And seriously how can the parents expect to muzzle social media posters by making a "statement" two days before trial in a high profile case like this??

[JohnThailandJohn]

This will be the same 23 pages I've read before. Forgive me if this has been covered but I STILL don't see any sign of this statement through the FCO. This time a search on "Witheridge".

https://www.gov.uk/government/announcements?keywords=witheridge&announcement_filter_option=all&topics[]=all&departments[]=foreign-commonwealth-office&world_locations[]=all&from_date=&to_date=

My problem is that we have seen a couple of announcements that appear to have come from the families. In those statements they are unclear as to which investigation they are in agreement with. The worst part of this is that the official mouthpiece of the FCO has not published ANY statement whereas the media reports I have read state that this statement has been released "through" the FCO yet the FCO has NOT released ANY statement on this case since the October 13th. This does call into question the veracity of this press release.

As a Brit I find this statement HIGHLY unusual as it is NOT a part of any media case that I have ever experienced being relayed through the British media. Not to say that this can't be true but it is incredibly unusual AND not an official statement from the FCO.

IF anybody has any doubt as to the thoroughness of the FCO media department please understand that the unfortunate death of the Brit/US hostage in the Yemen has got a statement and that happened within the past 24 hours.

Very reputable newspapers have released the families statements -- just a few can be found here .. https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS582US582&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&tbm=nws&q=koh+tao+families+statement

But agree, would like to see it publicly released by the FCO but then again, sending it to the media is a way of publicly releasing it. I certainly have not seen or heard from the FCO or family denying this is real and would like to believe reputable news sources reporting this have confirmed it is authentic before reporting.

Edited December 7, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn