Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[greenchair]

Just to note that Andy Hall has started tweeting live from the Samui Courthouse at @atomicalandy

@Atomicalandy 2m2 minutes ago

Defence lawyers prepare to request court to postpone hearing as documents/witness issues not satisfactorily prepared, timeline too tight

Could this be the message aleg is trying to distract you all from. Pay attention folks.

Any news?

Last tweet from Andy Hall about an hour ago:

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 1h1 hour ago

Parents and families of Wei Phyo/Zaw Lin (Koh Tao case accused) just arrived in court during case hearing with Myanmar monks

Before that about 2 hours ago:

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 2h2 hours ago

Head of Koh Tao case defense legal team Nakhon Chompuchat arrives to Koh Samui court to request case postponement

Oh thank you. Please keep everybody up to speed with the defense today. Be careful of people who will stop at nothing to draw us away from this topic. ?

[JLCrab]

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 2m2 minutes ago

Defense lawyers 4 Zaw Lin(Koh Tao accused)charged illegal entry/stay in Thailand, just produced his passport in court

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 7m7 minutes ago

Zaw Lin's passport clearly rebuts prosecutor charge illegal stay in Thailand, he was lawfully residing in Thailand at time of his arrest

Edited December 26, 2014 by JLCrab

[uty6543]

These pictures of nomsod with the limp wrist can be found all over the net many people suspect he was on the island the night of the deaths according to news reports threats have been made to hush people up.

crimescene35.jpg

We cannot say with 100% certainty that it is Nomsod but it is enough of a likeness to demand that the person in the CCTV pictures be found. It was good enough for the police in the early stages and if an honest investigator was brought back to solve the case and put real suspects on trial it would be good enough again. Forensic people could enhance the picture to guarantee someone stays a monk for 20 years.

[Willy Eckerslike]

@ draftvader " Without you clarifying the source there will be some debate, etc."

So when I wrote...."Copied from the news above" ....is not clarifying the source, what was the source?

This is not picking. I am with you. Anyway, "copied" implies, at least to me, that you copied the text from the news item above due to the nature of this word when used in an technical environment. What you actually did was transcribe. Being that there was no text to copy I assumed you had copied mine from the thread that bought the news item to our attention. Nonetheless this is insignificant when you consider what we are discussing and I really didn't want to make this the debate. Thank you for bringing the content from yesterday into the main debate. I just didn't have the time as my little girl awoke from her afternoon nap and I didn't come back on ThaiVisa again as it was her day yesterday

Understood, My poor choice of words. it comes from lack of formal education, I ran away to sea at the age of 15, I am now 58 and still looking..............

FYI it was StealthEnergiser who brought the content from yesterday into the main debate not me so our thanks should be to him

[StealthEnergiser]

These pictures of nomsod with the limp wrist can be found all over the net many people suspect he was on the island the night of the deaths according to news reports threats have been made to hush people up.

crimescene35.jpg

We cannot say with 100% certainty that it is Nomsod but it is enough of a likeness to demand that the person in the CCTV pictures be found. It was good enough for the police in the early stages and if an honest investigator was brought back to solve the case and put real suspects on trial it would be good enough again. Forensic people could enhance the picture to guarantee someone stays a monk for 20 years.

yes of course we don't know if it is him I have just amended my post and fully agree that the person needs finding and questioning .

[StealthEnergiser]

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 2m2 minutes ago

Defense lawyers 4 Zaw Lin(Koh Tao accused)charged illegal entry/stay in Thailand, just produced his passport in court

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 7m7 minutes ago

Zaw Lin's passport clearly rebuts prosecutor charge illegal stay in Thailand, he was lawfully residing in Thailand at time of his arrest

Good to see the defence are holding the cards close to their chests as they will slowly and surely prove the B2 innocent.

[uty6543]

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 2m2 minutes ago

Defense lawyers 4 Zaw Lin(Koh Tao accused)charged illegal entry/stay in Thailand, just produced his passport in court

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 7m7 minutes ago

Zaw Lin's passport clearly rebuts prosecutor charge illegal stay in Thailand, he was lawfully residing in Thailand at time of his arrest

Defense Team 1

Prosecutor 0

Edited December 26, 2014 by uty6543

[Willy Eckerslike]

Just to note that Andy Hall has started tweeting live from the Samui Courthouse at @atomicalandy

@Atomicalandy 2m2 minutes ago

Defence lawyers prepare to request court to postpone hearing as documents/witness issues not satisfactorily prepared, timeline too tight

I am guessing that the request for postponement was denied,

[JLCrab]

Just to note that Andy Hall has started tweeting live from the Samui Courthouse at @atomicalandy

@Atomicalandy 2m2 minutes ago

Defence lawyers prepare to request court to postpone hearing as documents/witness issues not satisfactorily prepared, timeline too tight

I am guessing that the request for postponement was denied,

So far no comment by Mr. Hall one way or the other.

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 2m2 minutes ago

Emotional scenes Koh Samui courtroom as parents/family of Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo (Koh Tao accused) hold/cling to their sons during the hearing.

Edited December 26, 2014 by JLCrab

[falangjim]

Just to note that Andy Hall has started tweeting live from the Samui Courthouse at @atomicalandy

@Atomicalandy 2m2 minutes ago

Defence lawyers prepare to request court to postpone hearing as documents/witness issues not satisfactorily prepared, timeline too tight

I am guessing that the request for postponement was denied,

I am guessing the same thing. Let's get this railroading over with is the prosecutor's mantra. Stick it to 'em Burma~!

[Thai at Heart]

On the BBC news about the trial starting today.

Let's hope they get a fair trial although I very much doubt it. Poor lads.

[DM07]

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 2m2 minutes ago

Defense lawyers 4 Zaw Lin(Koh Tao accused)charged illegal entry/stay in Thailand, just produced his passport in court

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 7m7 minutes ago

Zaw Lin's passport clearly rebuts prosecutor charge illegal stay in Thailand, he was lawfully residing in Thailand at time of his arrest

Priceless! They can't even get THAT right?!

I am 100% convinced now, that all the other claims are airtight and water- and bulletproof!

[greenchair]

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 2m2 minutes ago

Defense lawyers 4 Zaw Lin(Koh Tao accused)charged illegal entry/stay in Thailand, just produced his passport in court

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 7m7 minutes ago

Zaw Lin's passport clearly rebuts prosecutor charge illegal stay in Thailand, he was lawfully residing in Thailand at time of his arrest

Yahoo small win. but a win none the less. Wouldn't it be a treat if they got bail today. How could the prosecution not know that. (Idiots )?

[JLCrab]

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 3m3 minutes ago

Wei Phyo/Zaw Lin today in court wrote these 2 letters saying thank-you for everyone's support/encouragement/letters

(JPG of letters in Burmese script attached)

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 3m3 minutes ago

Wei Phyo/Zaw Lin today in court wrote these 2 letters saying thank-you for everyone's support/encouragement/letters

(JPG of handwritten letters in Burmese script attached)

pic.twitter.com/TE8Pre7aeZ

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 4m4 minutes ago (3:37 PM)

Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo words today: 'before we had no chance to prove our innocence, we are victims of influential people'

Edited December 26, 2014 by JLCrab

[StealthEnergiser]

@Atomicalandy Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo words today: 'before we had no chance to prove our innocence, we are victims of influential people'

[AleG]

@Atomicalandy Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo words today: 'before we had no chance to prove our innocence, we are victims of influential people'

Did they say who this influential people are?

[aimbc]

What I have said over and over again is that I want to see how the evidence stands up to scrutiny in court, and in the meantime I take a stand about people that spread speculation based on at best third hand accounts, partial information, conflicting reports, outright misinformation and not a small dose of prejudice.

If you believe in that, then can you tell me that you honor the claim of the two defendants that they were tortured and force to plead guilty. You need to give it as much weight as the police. They never receive the justice, as the police refuses to answer to the human rights people. And this is very relevant, as it will change the course of the police investigation. If found to be true. Remember, the law needs oversight as well. You can never surrender your rights and freedom to the government. They must be held accountable. But RTP would like to stay above the law. If they didn't do such a thing, they have nothing to be scared of. Migrant workers are guest to Thailand. They come to do work that Thais do not want to do. Everyone should be thankful for that, in any country. We should never be prejudice against them.

Use your logic this time and tell me, why the police refuse to answer these allegation with the human rights people? So going into trial with the police having an unfair advantage is not a trial. These are things that makes everything stink about the whole investigation.

Logic says that they have not gone to trial, so they are not guilty. If they not guilty, then they the proper respect of any human being. And that is what I believe and that is what I am advocating here, along with everyone who believes in saving humanity. Because it's worth saving.

If it takes speculation as you call it, but I call it putting it to theory. Even police investigation starts with speculation. The what ifs. As we have here, and add it all up, the probability of some of the speculation appears to be high. But since no one has access to key evidence or question it, it will appear to be speculation. But it doesn't mean that it's not valid. Just that it hasn't been proven yet. And with all the speculation, there is bound to be one that can stand on it's own.

• My speculation, is that wounds on the male victim can not have been from just the hoe. So it's not probable that these two murdered the two.
• My speculation is that the two victims did not have intimate relationship with each other on the beach, as they are hardly seen together that night. Even from the CCTV footage.
• My speculation is that the two in jail, did not get so excited to need to grab a hoe to raped and kill the two victims.
• My speculation is that the male victim did not fight the two accused off, as they don't even have any marks on them.
• My speculation is that the entire investigation will look quite weak and will be thrown out. Then the police will blame each other for their incompetence and that everyone will just forget about this as they know nothing ever changes. And the killer will still be on the loose because the crime scene was so contaminated. And that was the idea in the first place to contaminate it so that they can protect the killer.
• My speculation is that the killer is well connected enough for the police to protect them.

The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture, it's not the same as being tortured. Besides that they also confessed to the crime to a Myanmar delegation and the Human Rights Commission, did they torture them into confession too?

In any case if they were tortured that doesn't make them innocent, it means there are two cases to answer for, the murder of the two British tourists and the torture allegations; furthermore confessions are not the deciding factor in a case, physical evidence is the most relevant.

You speculations and conspiracy theories bore me, come back when you have anything to back them up.

Everything is relevant, even allegation of abuse can turn in to reality. Police made mistakes where false announcements. And you forgive their stupidity.

When this two get threaten with their lives, you are hanging on to their confession. This is why inquiry needs to happen. But it hasn't. They are innocent. What is your logical I opinion.

You are so weak. Please continue to defend the police as you believe these two are guilty. I will continue to defend them. Because they have not been found guilty. I will make sure the world never forgets. I am glad at least you read it. Thanks.

[DKUNPUTAF713]

I am delighted and most happy that the parents of the B2 are with them on this day!!

[Exsexyman]

People.... stop trying to convice the Gang of 4 about anything.

They are not here to be convinced or to debate or to discuss.

Their JOB is to deny deny deny. That is what they are here for. They have no other purpose here.

IMO. the best strategy is to ignore them completely and they will run out of oxygen fairly quickly. Not necessay to put them on the ignore list if you don't want to..... just pretend they are not here making a noise.

OTOH, if you like bashing your head against the wall. ... feel free to feed them.

Just remember ........ THEIR JOB is to present the official mantra. You need to understand this point!

I agree.............. send them to Coventry

Oh deary deary me. How old are you, fifteen?

[Krenjai]

@Atomicalandy Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo words today: 'before we had no chance to prove our innocence, we are victims of influential people'

Did they say who this influential people are?

Just be patient we will get to the bottom of this......

Koh Samui court sets full witness hearing dates in Koh Tao case trial: 8th July to 25th Sept 2015. Total 18 days of witness hearings.

[aimbc]

@Atomicalandy Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo words today: 'before we had no chance to prove our innocence, we are victims of influential people'

Did they say who this influential people are?

Just be patient we will get to the bottom of this......

Koh Samui court sets full witness hearing dates in Koh Tao case trial: 8th July to 25th Sept 2015. Total 18 days of witness hearings.

yes, The trump card will be shown at the appropriate time.

[Krenjai]

@Atomicalandy Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo words today: 'before we had no chance to prove our innocence, we are victims of influential people'

Did they say who this influential people are?

Just be patient we will get to the bottom of this......

Koh Samui court sets full witness hearing dates in Koh Tao case trial: 8th July to 25th Sept 2015. Total 18 days of witness hearings.

yes, The trump card will be shown at the appropriate time.

No bail I guess, fell sorry for these B2 , another 9 months in jail for a crime they did not commit.

[AleG]

The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture, it's not the same as being tortured. Besides that they also confessed to the crime to a Myanmar delegation and the Human Rights Commission, did they torture them into confession too?

In any case if they were tortured that doesn't make them innocent, it means there are two cases to answer for, the murder of the two British tourists and the torture allegations; furthermore confessions are not the deciding factor in a case, physical evidence is the most relevant.

You speculations and conspiracy theories bore me, come back when you have anything to back them up.

Everything is relevant, even allegation of abuse can turn in to reality. Police made mistakes where false announcements. And you forgive their stupidity.

When this two get threaten with their lives, you are hanging on to their confession. This is why inquiry needs to happen. But it hasn't. They are innocent. What is your logical I opinion.

You are so weak. Please continue to defend the police as you believe these two are guilty. I will continue to defend them. Because they have not been found guilty. I will make sure the world never forgets. I am glad at least you read it. Thanks.

"Everything is relevant, even allegation of abuse can turn in to reality"

Really, is that so? So if I'd start saying at every opportunity that the murders were committed by space aliens then that could turn into reality at some point?.

"When this two get threaten with their lives, you are hanging on to their confession."

If I was I wouldn't have written: "confessions are not the deciding factor in a case, physical evidence is the most relevant."

Again, try to read and understand what you are replying to.

"You are so weak"

Oh gee, random ad hominem, I'm undone.

"But it hasn't. They are innocent. What is your logical I opinion."

My "I" opinion is you are making statements of fact based on what you want to believe, rather than what the facts are.

"Please continue to defend the police as you believe these two are guilty."

Again, you have not been paying attention at what I have been saying, I'm not defending the police, I don't "believe" them to be guilty, I'm waiting to see how the evidence stands up in court to decide that; got it now?

[falangjim]

The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture, it's not the same as being tortured. Besides that they also confessed to the crime to a Myanmar delegation and the Human Rights Commission, did they torture them into confession too?

In any case if they were tortured that doesn't make them innocent, it means there are two cases to answer for, the murder of the two British tourists and the torture allegations; furthermore confessions are not the deciding factor in a case, physical evidence is the most relevant.

You speculations and conspiracy theories bore me, come back when you have anything to back them up.

Everything is relevant, even allegation of abuse can turn in to reality. Police made mistakes where false announcements. And you forgive their stupidity.

When this two get threaten with their lives, you are hanging on to their confession. This is why inquiry needs to happen. But it hasn't. They are innocent. What is your logical I opinion.

You are so weak. Please continue to defend the police as you believe these two are guilty. I will continue to defend them. Because they have not been found guilty. I will make sure the world never forgets. I am glad at least you read it. Thanks.

"Everything is relevant, even allegation of abuse can turn in to reality"

Really, is that so? So if I'd start saying at every opportunity that the murders were committed by space aliens then that could turn into reality at some point?.

"When this two get threaten with their lives, you are hanging on to their confession."

If I was I wouldn't have written: "confessions are not the deciding factor in a case, physical evidence is the most relevant."

Again, try to read and understand what you are replying to.

"You are so weak"

Oh gee, random ad hominem, I'm undone.

"But it hasn't. They are innocent. What is your logical I opinion."

My "I" opinion is you are making statements of fact based on what you want to believe, rather than what the facts are.

"Please continue to defend the police as you believe these two are guilty."

Again, you have not been paying attention at what I have been saying, I'm not defending the police, I don't "believe" them to be guilty, I'm waiting to see how the evidence stands up in court to decide that; got it now?

Get a room!

[greenchair]

@Atomicalandy Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo words today: 'before we had no chance to prove our innocence, we are victims of influential people'

Did they say who this influential people are?

Just be patient we will get to the bottom of this......

Koh Samui court sets full witness hearing dates in Koh Tao case trial: 8th July to 25th Sept 2015. Total 18 days of witness hearings.

yes, The trump card will be shown at the appropriate time.

No bail I guess, fell sorry for these B2 , another 9 months in jail for a crime they did not commit.

Well that sounds fair. That gives plenty of time for the defense to find the evidence they need. Surely they could have given conditional bail though. The Myanmar government said they would take responsibility themselves of the b2. Surely that is a reasonable guarantor. ?

[AleG]

@Atomicalandy Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo words today: 'before we had no chance to prove our innocence, we are victims of influential people'

Did they say who this influential people are?

Just be patient we will get to the bottom of this......

Koh Samui court sets full witness hearing dates in Koh Tao case trial: 8th July to 25th Sept 2015. Total 18 days of witness hearings.

yes, The trump card will be shown at the appropriate time.

Are you saying the defense is withholding evidence that would set their clients free because... what?

[Krenjai]

Andy Hall: "Just spoke Wei Phyo/Zaw Lin in court. Both smiled innocently as usual, said 9 months in prison is a very long time for them. But seem strong"

My problem with this? Lets hope they stay alive 9 months, I am sure some dark figures are already planning this not to be the case.

[JLCrab]

UPDATE as of 5:04 PM

1. Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 4m4 minutes ago

   Just spoke Wei Phyo/Zaw Lin in court. Both smiled innocently as usual, said 9 months in prison is a very long time for them. But seem strong

2. Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 19m19 minutes ago

   Prosecution witness hearings set as 8th July to 28th August 2015. Defense witness hearings set as 1st September to 25th September 2015.

3. Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 22m22 minutes ago

   Koh Samui court sets full witness hearing dates in Koh Tao case trial: 8th July to 25th Sept 2015. Total 18 days of witness hearings.

4. Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 57m57 minutes ago

   Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo both replied strongly to the judge's question: 'We really don't know. We were drunk, just went back home. We know nothing.'
5. Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 58m58 minutes ago

   Koh Samui court head judge just asked both Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo: 'If u not involved in this crime, tell us who is. Don't be scared.'

Edited December 26, 2014 by JLCrab

[greenchair]

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 2m2 minutes ago

Defense lawyers 4 Zaw Lin(Koh Tao accused)charged illegal entry/stay in Thailand, just produced his passport in court

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 7m7 minutes ago

Zaw Lin's passport clearly rebuts prosecutor charge illegal stay in Thailand, he was lawfully residing in Thailand at time of his arrest

Good to see the defence are holding the cards close to their chests as they will slowly and surely prove the B2 innocent.

One point. Many more to come.

[greenchair]

UPDATE as of 5:04 PM

• Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 4m4 minutes ago

  Just spoke Wei Phyo/Zaw Lin in court. Both smiled innocently as usual, said 9 months in prison is a very long time for them. But seem strong

• Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 19m19 minutes ago

  Prosecution witness hearings set as 8th July to 28th August 2015. Defense witness hearings set as 1st September to 25th September 2015.

• Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 22m22 minutes ago

  Koh Samui court sets full witness hearing dates in Koh Tao case trial: 8th July to 25th Sept 2015. Total 18 days of witness hearings.

• Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 57m57 minutes ago

  Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo both replied strongly to the judge's question: 'We really don't know. We were drunk, just went back home. We know nothing.'

• Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 58m58 minutes ago

  Koh Samui court head judge just asked both Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo: 'If u not involved in this crime, tell us who is. Don't be scared.'

?? Edited December 26, 2014 by greenchair