Sydney siege: Gunman takes hostages in Lindt cafe

[Scott]

A post has been removed.

Please address the comments on the forum and not the poster.

[dragonfly94]

Racist nonsense..what has a smear campaign against Pakistanis got to do with a lone wolf nut job murderer in Sydney...completely .

If you have seen footage of the perp he was clearly a disturbed individual well known to the police for molesting women when supposedly reading their fortunes through astrology cards, jumping on the IS bandwagon, because he knew that would be an attention grabber...he didn’t even have their flag.

He was just a publicity seeker carefully choosing the venue for his crime opposite a TV station for max exposure.

While the Muslim community are paying their respects at the site of the crime

http://www.aljazeera.com/video/asia-pacific/2014/12/australians-launch-anti-islamophobia-campaign-20141216192834527672.html

the usual Islam bashing hatefest has emerged on this forum.

To be against Islamic violence cannot be excused as racist. all races are Muslims so that moan is a non starter. Of course the perpetrator was disturbed, so would you be if you believed in the Koran as the word of god and acted out Allah's commands. The Muslim community might well be paying their respects but that does not alter the fact that Islam has no respect for western values or freedoms. islam is an evil force in the world that has done and is doing far, far more harm than good and all the excuses about nutters, disturbed loners and not real muslim will never alter that.

[bendejo]

As convenient as it is to point the finger at Islam, this was a person with mental health issues.

I would argue that most Islamic terrorists that attack innocent civilians have mental health issues, including the leaders. They court people with mental issues to become suicide bombers and to carry out lone wolf attacks. I see no reason that radical Islam should be let off the hook in any regard.

By Western standards, this man may have had mental issues. But in Iran, in the Middle East, I'll bet he is a dime a dozen. I doubt he would stand out at all. He is normal by the standards of the average mullah, I would wager.

Mental health problem, like believing in a supreme being that lives beyond the clouds, continuously falling on your knees (and face) to pray to him throughout the day, doing things beause he wants you to, etc. Is he one of the truly faithful or a delusional nutter? For any country between India and Morroco the former, nearly anywhere else...

[bendejo]

The other was a demand for the government to provide him with an IS flag.

Couldn't he buy his own online? Doesn't IS have a website where they sell t-shirts, coffee mugs, shot glasses, etc?

Maybe they should have got some comedian who does a Tony Abbot impersonation on the phone for him.

Time to see "Four Lions" again.

[simple1]

Politicians are terrified of the Islamic community in Australia and will never associate Islam and this guy in the same breath. Politicians are after the votes of the fast growing Islamic community in Australia and will stand shoulder to shoulder with them no matter how much death and destruction they cause. Australian politicians are cowards just like those they defend for a single vote and Australia can go down the toilet for all they care as long as they have a job and support of Islam.

Breathtaking bullshit.

Totally false when taking into consideration policy, actions and legislation of Federal Government to address radical Islam.

[chooka]

Sydney hostage-taker Hojat al-Islam Muhammad Hassan Manteqi is a cousin of Irans Islamic Chief Justice Amoli, according to Tehran sources

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/12/16/sydney-hostage-taker-hojat-al-islam-muhammad-hassan-manteqi-is-a-cousin-of-irans-islamic-chief-justice-amoli-according-to-tehran-sources/

ozsamurai

I think a lot of them are related through interbreeding.

Certainly the Muslims of Pakistani heritage are keen on marrying off to cousins etc.

It could explain the large amount of nutjobs.

Racist nonsense..what has a smear campaign against Pakistanis got to do with a lone wolf nut job murderer in Sydney...completely .

If you have seen footage of the perp he was clearly a disturbed individual well known to the police for molesting women when supposedly reading their fortunes through astrology cards, jumping on the IS bandwagon, because he knew that would be an attention grabber...he didnt even have their flag.

He was just a publicity seeker carefully choosing the venue for his crime opposite a TV station for max exposure.

While the Muslim community are paying their respects at the site of the crime

http://www.aljazeera.com/video/asia-pacific/2014/12/australians-launch-anti-islamophobia-campaign-20141216192834527672.html

the usual Islam bashing hatefest has emerged on this forum.

islam is not race so waving the racist card doesn't mean you win. Islam isn't even a religion, it's an evil murderous cult.

[Fred Flinstone]

Australia for the record has 3% less Muslims than UK -

It is also very much vocal in its assessment.

It is not scared of the Muslims .

It is more truthful to say the muslims are uncomfortable if not fearful of reactions after such events (that are rare here)

[metisdead]

Another post commenting on a poster rather than the topic has been removed.

[dexterm]

Sydney hostage-taker Hojat al-Islam Muhammad Hassan Manteqi is a cousin of Irans Islamic Chief Justice Amoli, according to Tehran sources

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/12/16/sydney-hostage-taker-hojat-al-islam-muhammad-hassan-manteqi-is-a-cousin-of-irans-islamic-chief-justice-amoli-according-to-tehran-sources/

ozsamurai

I think a lot of them are related through interbreeding.

Certainly the Muslims of Pakistani heritage are keen on marrying off to cousins etc.

It could explain the large amount of nutjobs.

Racist nonsense..what has a smear campaign against Pakistanis got to do with a lone wolf nut job murderer in Sydney...completely .

If you have seen footage of the perp he was clearly a disturbed individual well known to the police for molesting women when supposedly reading their fortunes through astrology cards, jumping on the IS bandwagon, because he knew that would be an attention grabber...he didnt even have their flag.

He was just a publicity seeker carefully choosing the venue for his crime opposite a TV station for max exposure.

While the Muslim community are paying their respects at the site of the crime

http://www.aljazeera.com/video/asia-pacific/2014/12/australians-launch-anti-islamophobia-campaign-20141216192834527672.html

the usual Islam bashing hatefest has emerged on this forum.

islam is not race so waving the racist card doesn't mean you win. Islam isn't even a religion, it's an evil murderous cult.

If you and dragonfly read my post more carefully you will see that my comment clearly refers to the off topic smear against Pakistanis who are a nationality/broad ethnic group, not a religion.

to the second part of my post..

I despise the madman who terrorized and caused the deaths of customers in the cafe. I am no fan of ISIS either whom I condemn for encouraging copycat killings.

What I object to is the enthusiasm of some posters on this forum to generalize from this incident to stereotype and tarnish 1.6 billion Muslims. That IMO is hate filled bigotry...call it religionism if you like...which I equally abhor ...and in my mind puts the bigots on a par with the crazed fanatic perp.

Edited December 17, 2014 by dexterm

[Chicog]

Australia for the record has 3% less Muslims than UK -

It is also very much vocal in its assessment.

It is not scared of the Muslims .

It is more truthful to say the muslims are uncomfortable if not fearful of reactions after such events (that are rare here)

Nutters like this are not "fearful of reactions" - they thrive on them.

[Morch]

ozsamurai

I think a lot of them are related through interbreeding.

Certainly the Muslims of Pakistani heritage are keen on marrying off to cousins etc.

It could explain the large amount of nutjobs.

Racist nonsense..what has a smear campaign against Pakistanis got to do with a lone wolf nut job murderer in Sydney...completely .

If you have seen footage of the perp he was clearly a disturbed individual well known to the police for molesting women when supposedly reading their fortunes through astrology cards, jumping on the IS bandwagon, because he knew that would be an attention grabber...he didnt even have their flag.

He was just a publicity seeker carefully choosing the venue for his crime opposite a TV station for max exposure.

While the Muslim community are paying their respects at the site of the crime

http://www.aljazeera.com/video/asia-pacific/2014/12/australians-launch-anti-islamophobia-campaign-20141216192834527672.html

the usual Islam bashing hatefest has emerged on this forum.

islam is not race so waving the racist card doesn't mean you win. Islam isn't even a religion, it's an evil murderous cult.

If you and dragonfly read my post more carefully you will see that my comment clearly refers to the off topic smear against Pakistanis who are a nationality/broad ethnic group, not a religion.

to the second part of my post..

I despise the madman who terrorized and caused the deaths of customers in the cafe. I am no fan of ISIS either whom I condemn for encouraging copycat killings.

What I object to is the enthusiasm of some posters on this forum to generalize from this incident to stereotype and tarnish 1.6 billion Muslims. That IMO is hate filled bigotry...call it religionism if you like...which I equally abhor ...and in my mind puts the bigots on a par with the crazed fanatic perp.

and in my mind puts the bigots on a par with the crazed fanatic perp.

A mind which equates perceived bigotry on an internet forum with actually taking hostages in a downtown cafe.

Hyperbole much?

[adamgordon]

This guy was just a nut. Religion aside he was out on bail as an accessory to his wife's murder and had a number of sexual assault convictions against his name. Religion was just an excuse for a deranged man. We cannot blame religion for this one people

[Mosha]

Well at least the nut job had a gun licence.

[tw25rw]

The other was a demand for the government to provide him with an IS flag.

Couldn't he buy his own online? Doesn't IS have a website where they sell t-shirts, coffee mugs, shot glasses, etc?

Maybe they should have got some comedian who does a Tony Abbot impersonation on the phone for him.

Time to see "Four Lions" again.

This was funny. Like someone had an IS flag to lend him or someone in town was going to whip one up.

[tw25rw]

Australia for the record has 3% less Muslims than UK -

It is also very much vocal in its assessment.

It is not scared of the Muslims .

It is more truthful to say the muslims are uncomfortable if not fearful of reactions after such events (that are rare here)

Nutters like this are not "fearful of reactions" - they thrive on them.

Unfortunately, I think that bastard Abbott will too. This is the kind of thing that will keep him in power.

[neverdie]

Australia for the record has 3% less Muslims than UK -

It is also very much vocal in its assessment.

It is not scared of the Muslims .

It is more truthful to say the muslims are uncomfortable if not fearful of reactions after such events (that are rare here)

Nutters like this are not "fearful of reactions" - they thrive on them.

Unfortunately, I think that bastard Abbott will too. This is the kind of thing that will keep him in power.

If Kevin747 had still been in power then he would of rung the man and probably put him to sleep with all that usual BS and nonesense he use to have gone on with. The matter would of been resolved in one of two ways,

1. The gunman would of fallen asleep and the hostages would of walked out and the police walked in.

2. The gunman would of committed suicide just to get off the phone from KRudd, realising once he had been caught by the pathetic little dweeb, there was no escape.

[OZEMADE]

After debriefing Police and Hostages some more has come to light.

It has now come out that Monis told the hostages they would all be dead in the morning and he later shot two hostages after some escaped again.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/25792328/you-will-be-dead-in-morning-hostages-told/

[dexterm]

dexterm wrote..

and in my mind puts the bigots on a par with the crazed fanatic perp.

Morch replied

A mind which equates perceived bigotry on an internet forum with actually taking hostages in a downtown cafe.

Hyperbole much?

Far from hyperbole.

History tells us there’s a thin veneer between an apparently normal citizen and one who would gladly participate in racist atrocities, or if not, would cheer from the sidelines. It’s a short step from “I didn’t know” to “I was only following orders".

There’s a very interesting article about increased racist abuse on Australian public transport which has now escalated to racist emails from a senior University of Sydney academic and Abbott government consultant

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/are-we-all-to-blame-for-racism-in-australia/story-fnixwvgh-1227101933576?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=lifestyle

Well I am the sort of guy who stands up and says “leave them alone”.

Edited December 18, 2014 by dexterm

[Mosha]

After debriefing Police and Hostages some more has come to light.

It has now come out that Monis told the hostages they would all be dead in the morning and he later shot two hostages after some escaped again.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/25792328/you-will-be-dead-in-morning-hostages-told/

Someone is telling porkies

From the link

"Court documents from 2011 reveal Monis had a gun licence while working as a security officer but it had expired. But NSW Police on Wednesday said there's no record of Monis having held a firearms licence."

[Ulysses G.]

dexterm wrote..

and in my mind puts the bigots on a par with the crazed fanatic perp.

Morch replied

A mind which equates perceived bigotry on an internet forum with actually taking hostages in a downtown cafe.

Hyperbole much?

Far from hyperbole.

Denying the obvious as per usual. Morch was spot on. People that disagree with nutty opinions on the Internet are not automatically "bigots" and even if they were, they would not be even close to being on par with actually taking hostages in a downtown cafe.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Will27]

What really burns my bum is that people can get access to legal aid for these type of cases.

At least Abbott saw sense in that he scrapped legal aid funding for failed asylum seeker cases.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/12/18/13/24/abbott-slams-lindt-cafe-gunman-s-legal-aid-funding-for-high-court-challenges

[Morch]

dexterm wrote..

and in my mind puts the bigots on a par with the crazed fanatic perp.

Morch replied

A mind which equates perceived bigotry on an internet forum with actually taking hostages in a downtown cafe.

Hyperbole much?

Far from hyperbole.

History tells us there’s a thin veneer between an apparently normal citizen and one who would gladly participate in racist atrocities, or if not, would cheer from the sidelines. It’s a short step from “I didn’t know” to “I was only following orders".

There’s a very interesting article about increased racist abuse on Australian public transport which has now escalated to racist emails from a senior University of Sydney academic and Abbott government consultant

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/are-we-all-to-blame-for-racism-in-australia/story-fnixwvgh-1227101933576?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=lifestyle

Well I am the sort of guy who stands up and says “leave them alone”.

No, you are the sort of guy who would insinuate that someone offering an opposing view to yours on an internet forum is the same as an actual terrorist. While this is indeed one of TVF's long standing traditions, it is nothing to be proud about.

So until that time where you can actually point out to another poster doing anything more than expressing his views on the forum (even if these are unpalatable), it would be appreciated if you limit your assertions on these matters to the confines of your alleged mind.

[dexterm]

dexterm wrote..

and in my mind puts the bigots on a par with the crazed fanatic perp.

Morch replied

A mind which equates perceived bigotry on an internet forum with actually taking hostages in a downtown cafe.

Hyperbole much?

Far from hyperbole.

History tells us there’s a thin veneer between an apparently normal citizen and one who would gladly participate in racist atrocities, or if not, would cheer from the sidelines. It’s a short step from “I didn’t know” to “I was only following orders".

There’s a very interesting article about increased racist abuse on Australian public transport which has now escalated to racist emails from a senior University of Sydney academic and Abbott government consultant

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/are-we-all-to-blame-for-racism-in-australia/story-fnixwvgh-1227101933576?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=lifestyle

Well I am the sort of guy who stands up and says “leave them alone”.

No, you are the sort of guy who would insinuate that someone offering an opposing view to yours on an internet forum is

the same as an actual terrorist. While this is indeed one of TVF's long standing traditions, it is nothing to be proud about.

So until that time where you can actually point out to another poster doing anything more than expressing his views on

the forum (even if these are unpalatable), it would be appreciated if you limit your assertions on these matters to the

confines of your alleged mind.

I have read many posts on this forum where members were cheering terrorists from the sidelines.

And I would appreciate it if you refrain from being rude with your personal flame.

[F4UCorsair]

I think a key piece of missing evidence is his actual motivation. Forgot for a moment what people say caused the action, what was the end point that he hoped to achieve?

Terrorism and he was successful.

He certainly terrorized the cafe customers and caused the tragic deaths of two innocent people. I cant begin to imagine the grief of Katrina Dawson’s 3 young children. He's dead. Good riddance.

I think he was mad, but not on a suicide mission. We may never know. He could have killed the hostages anytime in the 16 hour siege before he started dropping off to sleep. I think he was milking the publicity angle for all it was worth...hence using social media and TV stations to air his warped grievances. I await the public inquiry.

It's been revealed by one of the hostages that he told them they would all be dead in the morning, so that sounds like terror to me, possibly for 16+ hours!!!

[neverdie]

I think a key piece of missing evidence is his actual motivation. Forgot for a moment what people say caused the action, what was the end point that he hoped to achieve?

Terrorism and he was successful.

He certainly terrorized the cafe customers and caused the tragic deaths of two innocent people. I cant begin to imagine the grief of Katrina Dawsons 3 young children. He's dead. Good riddance.

I think he was mad, but not on a suicide mission. We may never know. He could have killed the hostages anytime in the 16 hour siege before he started dropping off to sleep. I think he was milking the publicity angle for all it was worth...hence using social media and TV stations to air his warped grievances. I await the public inquiry.

It's been revealed by one of the hostages that he told them they would all be dead in the morning, so that sounds like terror to me, possibly for 16+ hours!!!

The cafe manager Mr Tori Johnson did exactly what he needed to do. It's such a shame he couldn't overpower the filthy scum and drive the barrel of the said shotgun right up his dirty arse and pull the trigger.

This man is such a hero. His family must be in immense pain right now, I feel for them, they must know that their son is responsible for saving so many lives. What a brave individual, he wasn't trained to disarm terrorists, he was a cafe manager, a very successful and likeable one at that. It's so unfair his life was stamped out in this fashion.

May he rest in peace.

[Morch]

dexterm wrote..

and in my mind puts the bigots on a par with the crazed fanatic perp.

Morch replied

A mind which equates perceived bigotry on an internet forum with actually taking hostages in a downtown cafe.

Hyperbole much?

Far from hyperbole.

History tells us there’s a thin veneer between an apparently normal citizen and one who would gladly participate in racist atrocities, or if not, would cheer from the sidelines. It’s a short step from “I didn’t know” to “I was only following orders".

There’s a very interesting article about increased racist abuse on Australian public transport which has now escalated to racist emails from a senior University of Sydney academic and Abbott government consultant

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/are-we-all-to-blame-for-racism-in-australia/story-fnixwvgh-1227101933576?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=lifestyle

Well I am the sort of guy who stands up and says “leave them alone”.

No, you are the sort of guy who would insinuate that someone offering an opposing view to yours on an internet forum is

the same as an actual terrorist. While this is indeed one of TVF's long standing traditions, it is nothing to be proud about.

So until that time where you can actually point out to another poster doing anything more than expressing his views on

the forum (even if these are unpalatable), it would be appreciated if you limit your assertions on these matters to the

confines of your alleged mind.

I have read many posts on this forum where members were cheering terrorists from the sidelines.

And I would appreciate it if you refrain from being rude with your personal flame.

Yes, posters on this forum sometimes express sympathy with an amazing plethora of vile things.

If and when it gets out of line, they are usually dealt with according to the forum rules.

It does not, however, actually make them to be perpetrators of these actions, nor "on par" with.

As for being rude and personally flaming fellow posters - how about starting with not equating posters to terrorists?

[Tep]

dexterm wrote..

and in my mind puts the bigots on a par with the crazed fanatic perp.

Morch replied

A mind which equates perceived bigotry on an internet forum with actually taking hostages in a downtown cafe.

Hyperbole much?

Far from hyperbole.

History tells us there’s a thin veneer between an apparently normal citizen and one who would gladly participate in racist atrocities, or if not, would cheer from the sidelines. It’s a short step from “I didn’t know” to “I was only following orders".

There’s a very interesting article about increased racist abuse on Australian public transport which has now escalated to racist emails from a senior University of Sydney academic and Abbott government consultant

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/are-we-all-to-blame-for-racism-in-australia/story-fnixwvgh-1227101933576?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=lifestyle

Well I am the sort of guy who stands up and says “leave them alone”.

No, you are the sort of guy who would insinuate that someone offering an opposing view to yours on an internet forum is the same as an actual terrorist. While this is indeed one of TVF's long standing traditions, it is nothing to be proud about.

So until that time where you can actually point out to another poster doing anything more than expressing his views on the forum (even if these are unpalatable), it would be appreciated if you limit your assertions on these matters to the confines of your alleged mind.

From the news.com article "Mr Boumzar is not evil, just an ignorant punk who is responding to the influences around him. He deserves to be lead off in handcuffs, and will face charges for his crime."

If find it quaint that people expressing racist or bigoted views claim that they are just expressing their opinion or an opposing opinion from the PC crowned. In fact they are either committing or inciting the committal of a crime in Australia as evidenced by Mr. Boumzar being 'lead off in handcuffs'. If not criminals, they are certainly enablers and facilitators of hate crimes. I still trust that there re more Australians who respect diversity #illridewithyou than otherwise and these citizens will help stamp out such criminal acts either through intervention, peer pressure or using media to expose these actions.

[canman]

dexterm wrote..

and in my mind puts the bigots on a par with the crazed fanatic perp.

Morch replied

A mind which equates perceived bigotry on an internet forum with actually taking hostages in a downtown cafe.

Hyperbole much?

Far from hyperbole.

History tells us there’s a thin veneer between an apparently normal citizen and one who would gladly participate in racist atrocities, or if not, would cheer from the sidelines. It’s a short step from “I didn’t know” to “I was only following orders".

There’s a very interesting article about increased racist abuse on Australian public transport which has now escalated to racist emails from a senior University of Sydney academic and Abbott government consultant

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/are-we-all-to-blame-for-racism-in-australia/story-fnixwvgh-1227101933576?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=lifestyle

Well I am the sort of guy who stands up and says “leave them alone”.

"History tells us there’s a thin veneer between an apparently normal citizen and one who would gladly participate in racist atrocities" A statement which I can agree with. Please sit down and think about what you have said and take it to it's logical conclusion when applied to a death cult whose doctrine demands its followers kill, put into slavery or convert all those who do not agree with it.

[canman]

I also probably disagree that he was successful in creating terror.

Pretty much anyone, anywhere would disagree with that. He was very successful at creating terror. IMO, you are being overly pedantic, rather than just admitting the VERY obvious.

No terror here, poor girl

Edited December 18, 2014 by canman

[canman]

What tep dexterm and a few other posters know and won't admit is ISIS have been reaching out to the world muslim community asking for muslims to carry out these lone wolf attacks.

This muslim nutter in sydney is one of many lone wolves answering the ISIS call.

Whatever way you look at it..it was a terrorist attack and one in a style I expect we will see more of.

Yes, I am aware of ISIS calls for lone wolf attacks, and for that they bear responsibility for the deaths of innocents in Sydney. This nut job jumped on their bandwagon.

I hold Tony Abbott equally to blame for rattling the ISIS cage and taking sides unnecessarily in a civil war 8,000 miles away from home, and grand standing by raising the terrorist alert level before there had been any attack, rounding up the usual suspects, selectively banning Australians from certain war zones but not others, thus putting a spotlight on ISIS.

Chicken or the egg??

Frankly i agree with you to an extent. The west should just let the muslim world get on with wiping each other out. All western intervention, aid, business, diplomatic missons etc should be withdrawn and just let them get on with it. Give them 50 years on their own and they will be back where they were 1500 years ago.