Sydney siege: Gunman takes hostages in Lindt cafe

[neverdie]

http://www.breakingnews.com/item/2014/12/22/report-autopsy-of-sydney-siege-gunman-finds-cause/

"Autopsy of Sydney siege gunman finds cause of death was 5 police bullets to the head"

Yeah that would do it

There was a so called expert that was rambling on about how Police weren't good with their firearms......Khun hold on a second, he was a wannabe, a mere gun slinger.

It would seem 5 shots made it to this grubs cranium.....my guess is these would NOT have killed the the brainless terrorists. Clearly the man was an imbicile ...... He must have bled out.

[ozsamurai]

• 50-year-old’s body remains unclaimed in the morgue
• ‘No Muslim funeral home will accept him’

SYDNEY’S chief Islamic ­funeral director yesterday declared no Muslim funeral home would accept the body of terrorist Man Haron Monis and authorities should just dump his corpse at sea or “chuck him in the bloody shithouse”.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/just-dump-man-haron-monis-body-at-sea-muslim-leaders-say/story-fnl2dlu7-1227161221594?nk=d492e8b03bc2b801c0fafbae44f907af

Can we note here that the Muslim's used the word terrorist, yet Tony doesn't?

Oz

Edited December 22, 2014 by ozsamurai

[NeverSure]

There was a so called expert that was rambling on about how Police weren't good with their firearms...... -snip-

Most of them aren't. Many of them had never fired a gun before they went to initial police training.

The specialty teams they would assign to something like this would be hand picked and very good. One problem is that it takes them too long to arrive and by the time they do, there's not much they can do because the perp gets the situation stabilized in his favor.

"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

[neverdie]

There was a so called expert that was rambling on about how Police weren't good with their firearms...... -snip-

Most of them aren't. Many of them had never fired a gun before they went to initial police training.

The specialty teams they would assign to something like this would be hand picked and very good. One problem is that it takes them too long to arrive and by the time they do, there's not much they can do because the perp gets the situation stabilized in his favor.

"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

Neversure,

When this incident occurred the Special Operations Group were dispatched from the SPC, which is literally within rock throwing distance from Martin Place.

These specialists were on scene very quickly.

In a place like Australia & to be more specific, NSW, it's hard to have police on every corner at every moment even in a command like Sydney Central.

The Police did an exceptional job.

As for your comment about Police handling of firearms, I can assure you where I worked there were very competent police with firearms.

In the old days, with the old Smith&Wesson SP, you had 7 chances to hit the perp......6 shots were unlikely to hit but using the weapon as a boomerang was bound to have a result. The old .38 was cumbersome and with it's shorten barrel difficult to obtain fantastic results with, especially in stressful situations.

The Glock model 22, a .40 s&w was a joy to fire and certainly tidied things up for many who bordered average to start with.

NSW Police started training years ago using stress induced typed training which improved standards yet again IMO. Many police now train in controlled wearhouse environments with modified glocks paint rounds and various stressors applied to simulate 'realistic' conditions. The training just keeps getting better and better.

Every command in NSW has specially trained operative that function in a SPG type operatives that train to the same levels as the full time SPG groups. There's heaps of really good operators around and in country Australia there are a also many enthusiasts such as yourself. Often you will find these guys down the shooting range in the down time and many are also in clubs etc.

You have a simplistic view of reality, IMO, some of the best firearms users I have seen are Police I trained with. And yep, I've seen a few incompetent ones too, especially a lot of desk jockies and hierarchy. These are the guys that hide when the going gets tough and spend the rest of their days applying for jobs and fluffing their own nests....some of them become serial pains in the backside for operational police, counting beans and so forth.

As I've said to you before, it's one thing to shoot at paper targets and small game, it's another completely different story to engage criminals who arnt afraid to use their firearms.

[jacky54]

• 50-year-old’s body remains unclaimed in the morgue
• ‘No Muslim funeral home will accept him’

SYDNEY’S chief Islamic ­funeral director yesterday declared no Muslim funeral home would accept the body of terrorist Man Haron Monis and authorities should just dump his corpse at sea or “chuck him in the bloody shithouse”.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/just-dump-man-haron-monis-body-at-sea-muslim-leaders-say/story-fnl2dlu7-1227161221594?nk=d492e8b03bc2b801c0fafbae44f907af

Can we note here that the Muslim's used the word terrorist, yet Tony doesn't?

Oz

Dump him in the sea by all means, but wrap him in pig skin first as a deterrent to other 'martyrs' for Allah.

[Mosha]

Due to a possible non-compliance to Halal certification issue regarding this event, a boycott of Halal certified goods would be proper I reckon.

http://www.halalchoices.com.au/product_lists.html

And Here

www.facebook.com/BH.Australia

In the UK some NHS authorities are refusing to use an anti flu nasal spray. Even though it's very effective. It contains a tiny amount of pig gelatine. Ir's that or nothing as the NHS wanted to do a 1 product test. Heck no one is forcing people to use it. Let those who want it have it. It's called Fluenz and is for children.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Mosha

[Steely Dan]

Looks like we got another "Aloha Snack Bar" attack.

http://news.yahoo.com/man-shouting-allahu-akbar-drives-crowd-france-injuring-211915875.html

Can't see this on TV yet.

Indeed, what with the police officers stabbed that make three incidents, 20 injured and three attackers shouting Allahu Akbar, but Francois Holland says there's no link between the attacks. Now how do you get the double face palm emoticon on an iPad?

[Kooweerup]

Two men arrested in Sydney counter-terrorism investigation

Two men have been arrested by police in Sydney as part of an ongoing counter-terrorism operation.

The Australian Federal Police (AFP) said members of the Joint Counter Terrorism Team made the arrests with New South Wales Police as part of Operation Appleby.

Police will hold a press conference at 9:00am (AEDT) on the arrests.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-24/two-men-arrested-by-counter-terrorism-team-sydney/5986816

Heightened level of terror 'chatter' in wake of Sydney siege: PM Tony Abbott.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott says there has been a heightened level of "chatter" among "terrorist sympathisers" in the wake of last week's deadly siege in Sydney's Martin Place.

Mr Abbott has convened the first meeting of the national security committee of cabinet with the new Defence Minister Kevin Andrews and new Immigration Minister Peter Dutton.

Mr Abbott said the committee was briefed by the head of the domestic spy agency ASIO and the Australian Federal Police Commissioner.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-23/pm-warns-of-heightened-level-of-terror-chatter/5986242

Edited December 23, 2014 by Kooweerup

[H1w4yR1da]

Indeed, what with the police officers stabbed that make three incidents, 20 injured and three attackers shouting Allahu Akbar, but Francois Holland says there's no link between the attacks. Now how do you get the double face palm emoticon on an iPad?

How about a triple for Hollande?

There was some wet pc liberal on BBC News the other day repeating Hollande's mantra. 'Nothing to do with Islam, lone wolf nutters, the 'Aloha Snack Bar' screams irrelevant' etc etc. Sickening!

Edited December 24, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[jacky54]

This has been posted before, the killer of Lee Rigby justifying his being butchered on a London street by the MUSLIM murderer quoting from the Koran and claiming the koran made him do it. Yet afterwards Cameron had the barefaced hypocrisy to go on TV and claim it had nothing to do with Islam

Edited December 24, 2014 by jacky54

[Steely Dan]

Indeed, what with the police officers stabbed that make three incidents, 20 injured and three attackers shouting Allahu Akbar, but Francois Holland says there's no link between the attacks. Now how do you get the double face palm emoticon on an iPad?

How about a triple for Hollande?

There was some wet pc liberal on BBC News the other day repeating Hollande's mantra. 'Nothing to do with Islam, lone wolf nutters, the 'Aloha Snack Bar' screams irrelevant' etc etc. Sickening!

Indeed, and whilst the news outlets edit out the uncharacteristic admission of Allahu Akbars we have this.

http://pamelageller.com/2014/12/french-arrest-gunman-armed-to-the-teeth-headed-to-the-center-of-cannes-troops-deployed.html/

Now repeat after me, lone wolf, mentally deranged, nothing to do with Islam, motive unknown.

[F4UCorsair]

http://www.breakingnews.com/item/2014/12/22/report-autopsy-of-sydney-siege-gunman-finds-cause/

"Autopsy of Sydney siege gunman finds cause of death was 5 police bullets to the head"

Yeah that would do it

Why only five??? Did they run out of ammunition?

[JockPieandBeans]

http://www.breakingnews.com/item/2014/12/22/report-autopsy-of-sydney-siege-gunman-finds-cause/

"Autopsy of Sydney siege gunman finds cause of death was 5 police bullets to the head"

Yeah that would do it

Why only five??? Did they run out of ammunition?

A 5 round grouping to the head of a falling target.

Good Drills, Good Skills.

[Jdiddy]

http://www.breakingnews.com/item/2014/12/22/report-autopsy-of-sydney-siege-gunman-finds-cause/

"Autopsy of Sydney siege gunman finds cause of death was 5 police bullets to the head"

Yeah that would do it

Why only five??? Did they run out of ammunition?

The 5 rounds to his head might have been due to the recoil/kick from blasting away at his center of mass on full auto and burst fire

[JockPieandBeans]

Australia has been urged to compensate the victims of domestic terror attacks as it does those harmed abroad, after the Sydney cafe siege last month.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-30808384

Now why doesn't the community of love and peace offer to pay out the compensation as a gesture of goodwill ?

[Morch]

Australia has been urged to compensate the victims of domestic terror attacks as it does those harmed abroad, after the Sydney cafe siege last month.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-30808384

Now why doesn't the community of love and peace offer to pay out the compensation as a gesture of goodwill ?

Because they are not responsible for it, nor complicit in the attack.

I do not know if there is a mechanism in Australia for the government to confiscate terrorist assets and use them as means for compensation, but would suggest that otherwise, it is the government who is responsible for the safety of its citizens. It actually tells how good Australia had it up to now if there were no rules in place to allow these sort of compensations.

Expecting anyone of the same ethnicity or religion of a terrorist to compensate victims is way out there. If some communities feel the need to pass the donation hat around it should be of their own volition and not an expectation. Guess most of us would not be keen to compensate "collateral damage" casualties and their families out of our own pocket.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Morch

[JockPieandBeans]

Australia has been urged to compensate the victims of domestic terror attacks as it does those harmed abroad, after the Sydney cafe siege last month.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-30808384

Now why doesn't the community of love and peace offer to pay out the compensation as a gesture of goodwill ?

Because they are not responsible for it, nor complicit in the attack.

I do not know if there is a mechanism in Australia for the government to confiscate terrorist assets and use them as means for compensation, but would suggest that otherwise, it is the government who is responsible for the safety of its citizens. It actually tells how good Australia had it up to now if there were no rules in place to allow these sort of compensations.

Expecting anyone of the same ethnicity or religion of a terrorist to compensate victims is way out there. If some communities feel the need to pass the donation hat around it should be of their own volition and not an expectation. Guess most of us would not be keen to compensate "collateral damage" casualties and their families out of our own pocket.

That is why I said as a gesture of goodwill.

It was common practice when I was younger that local communities had a whip round for those who died, regardless of the cause of death.

It is called compassion.

[Morch]

Australia has been urged to compensate the victims of domestic terror attacks as it does those harmed abroad, after the Sydney cafe siege last month.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-30808384

Now why doesn't the community of love and peace offer to pay out the compensation as a gesture of goodwill ?

Because they are not responsible for it, nor complicit in the attack.

I do not know if there is a mechanism in Australia for the government to confiscate terrorist assets and use them as means for compensation, but would suggest that otherwise, it is the government who is responsible for the safety of its citizens. It actually tells how good Australia had it up to now if there were no rules in place to allow these sort of compensations.

Expecting anyone of the same ethnicity or religion of a terrorist to compensate victims is way out there. If some communities feel the need to pass the donation hat around it should be of their own volition and not an expectation. Guess most of us would not be keen to compensate "collateral damage" casualties and their families out of our own pocket.

That is why I said as a gesture of goodwill.

It was common practice when I was younger that local communities had a whip round for those who died, regardless of the cause of death.

It is called compassion.

Allow me to guess that this worthy practice was directed mostly at deceased members of the community or toward instances where no tacit blame was attached to your community.

Had your post been just a statement that this would have been a good idea on the part of the Muslim community, perhaps. Asking why they do not do it implies an expectation, IMO.

Do you donate regularly to civilian communities effected by actions of your countrymen, community member, or church (as in religious affiliation, not necessarily Christian)?

[JockPieandBeans]

Allow me to guess that this worthy practice was directed mostly at deceased members of the community or toward instances where no tacit blame was attached to your community.

As I said, it was common practice regardless of cause of death.

Had your post been just a statement that this would have been a good idea on the part of the Muslim community, perhaps. Asking why they do not do it implies an expectation, IMO.

I will accept, that it was badly worded on my behalf. Does not change my statement that it would show goodwill, especially as Aus does not have compensation deals ( as yet ) for those killed at home by terrorists.

Do you donate regularly to civilian communities effected by actions of your countrymen, community member, or church (as in religious affiliation, not necessarily Christian)?

I do not think that that is any of your concern. However, since you ask. The UK Armed Forces Benevolent Fund gets an annual subscription from me and a local Thai Orphanage benefits from my generosity and goodwill.

Now that I think about it, the last Thai that died close to me, they had a whip round for them as well, so it is obviously not just something from my home Country,

[Morch]

Allow me to guess that this worthy practice was directed mostly at deceased members of the community or toward instances where no tacit blame was attached to your community.

As I said, it was common practice regardless of cause of death.

Had your post been just a statement that this would have been a good idea on the part of the Muslim community, perhaps. Asking why they do not do it implies an expectation, IMO.

I will accept, that it was badly worded on my behalf. Does not change my statement that it would show goodwill, especially as Aus does not have compensation deals ( as yet ) for those killed at home by terrorists.

Do you donate regularly to civilian communities effected by actions of your countrymen, community member, or church (as in religious affiliation, not necessarily Christian)?

I do not think that that is any of your concern. However, since you ask. The UK Armed Forces Benevolent Fund gets an annual subscription from me and a local Thai Orphanage benefits from my generosity and goodwill.

Now that I think about it, the last Thai that died close to me, they had a whip round for them as well, so it is obviously not just something from my home Country,

I think that the main point would be appealing the Australian authorities to amend legislation and apply it retroactively, so that victims would be properly compensated. Placing the onus on communal goodwill is off mark, in my opinion.

The thing about donations is that usually they are not made to victims of violence committed by actions of the donor's "side", (even when this association is implied rather than factual). I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly the UK Armed Forces Benevolent Fund provides assistance to soldiers, veterans and families of - not to victims of actions by the UK armed forces.

[JockPieandBeans]

I think that the main point would be appealing the Australian authorities to amend legislation and apply it retroactively, so that victims would be properly compensated. Placing the onus on communal goodwill is off mark, in my opinion.

That would be up to the Australian Government and Departments to decide. Not something that I have any intention of getting drawn into. I merely pointed out that it would show of goodwill on behalf of the Australian Muslim Community. For the avoidance of any doubt, I never said or inferred, that the Muslim community were responsible.

Interesting observation. Why would a gesture of goodwill be off the mark ?

The thing about donations is that usually they are not made to victims of violence committed by actions of the donor's "side", (even when this association is implied rather than factual). I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly the UK Armed Forces Benevolent Fund provides assistance to soldiers, veterans and families of - not to victims of actions by the UK armed forces.

Your recollection is correct, that is who they provide assistance for. I never said or implied that they were victims. If an individual wishes to donate to charity, then the choice of charity is down to the individual.

If you really want to be facetious, any assistance to Victims of actions by the UK Armed Forces would fall to the Government of the day, not Forces Charities.

[Morch]

I think that the main point would be appealing the Australian authorities to amend legislation and apply it retroactively, so that victims would be properly compensated. Placing the onus on communal goodwill is off mark, in my opinion.

That would be up to the Australian Government and Departments to decide. Not something that I have any intention of getting drawn into. I merely pointed out that it would show of goodwill on behalf of the Australian Muslim Community. For the avoidance of any doubt, I never said or inferred, that the Muslim community were responsible.

Interesting observation. Why would a gesture of goodwill be off the mark ?

The thing about donations is that usually they are not made to victims of violence committed by actions of the donor's "side", (even when this association is implied rather than factual). I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly the UK Armed Forces Benevolent Fund provides assistance to soldiers, veterans and families of - not to victims of actions by the UK armed forces.

Your recollection is correct, that is who they provide assistance for. I never said or implied that they were victims. If an individual wishes to donate to charity, then the choice of charity is down to the individual.

If you really want to be facetious, any assistance to Victims of actions by the UK Armed Forces would fall to the Government of the day, not Forces Charities.

A gesture of goodwill is not off mark, placing the onus on an expectation for a gesture of goodwill is.

Why wouldn't it be a gesture of goodwill if the Australian authorities made funds available? Or perhaps, Lindt? Or the city of Sidney?....

As to the second part: exactly - thanks for making my point.

[JockPieandBeans]

As to the second part: exactly - thanks for making my point.

What point were you trying to make ?

That you are facetious ? Or that you do not understand the difference between a charity and who should be paid compensation for alleged victims of the actions of UK Armed Forces ?

Why wouldn't it be a gesture of goodwill if the Australian authorities made funds available? Or perhaps, Lindt? Or the city of Sidney?....

.

1. I said that currently there is no recourse for compensation in Aus for victims of terrorism on Aussie soil, so in that context it would have been nice to see the Muslim Community taking a lead on it. The perpetrator was from the Muslim Community after all.

2. Lindt didn't shoot anybody. Perhaps they are partly responsible because they refused to sign up for some halal guff, and they should be held liable.

3. The City of Sydney ? Why should they pay out, after all it will be tax dollars that ultimately fund compensation.

Responsibility for actions, a thing that is becoming a distant memory.

[Morch]

As to the second part: exactly - thanks for making my point.

What point were you trying to make ?

That you are facetious ? Or that you do not understand the difference between a charity and who should be paid compensation for alleged victims of the actions of UK Armed Forces ?

Why wouldn't it be a gesture of goodwill if the Australian authorities made funds available? Or perhaps, Lindt? Or the city of Sidney?....

.

1. I said that currently there is no recourse for compensation in Aus for victims of terrorism on Aussie soil, so in that context it would have been nice to see the Muslim Community taking a lead on it. The perpetrator was from the Muslim Community after all.

2. Lindt didn't shoot anybody. Perhaps they are partly responsible because they refused to sign up for some halal guff, and they should be held liable.

3. The City of Sydney ? Why should they pay out, after all it will be tax dollars that ultimately fund compensation.

Responsibility for actions, a thing that is becoming a distant memory.

It would have been nice to see the Muslim community taking a lead on it. Alright.

The bit where this goes awry is "the perpetrator was from the Muslim community after all".

Was he acting as their appointed representative? Do other communities, worldwide, offer compensation for crimes committed by their own religious zealots? By members committing crimes and claiming to do so on behalf of communities without general consent?

Never said Lindt shot someone, but wouldn't it be nice if they took the lead on it? Or is the implication here that the Muslim community did shoot someone or is responsible for the guy's actions?

Same goes for the the city of Sidney. No, they not responsible, it would be nice if they took the lead on it.

How is the Muslim community in Australia responsible for this?

[JockPieandBeans]

How is the Muslim community in Australia responsible for this?

Yet again, I never said they were.

However, as the Muslim Community are so good at shouting that their religion is one of peace, tolerance and love. It would be nice to see them take the lead on it.

[simple1]

Charitable foundations were established within days of the deaths of the two hostages.

The Katrina Dawson Foundation was established, with the aim of supporting educational opportunities for women.

http://www.thekatrinadawsonfoundation.org/#aboutus

At his parents' request, a memorial fund for Johnson was used to raise money for Beyond Blue, a mental health organisation. The first donation, of $51,000, came from Lindt Australia.

Edited January 15, 2015 by simple1

[dragonfly94]

How is the Muslim community in Australia responsible for this?

Yet again, I never said they were.

However, as the Muslim Community are so good at shouting that their religion is one of peace, tolerance and love. It would be nice to see them take the lead on it.

They are taking a lead, in complaining, demanding apologies and whining that we should respect their fascist ideology and the not depict the murdering pedophile prophet.

#noapology: Muslims stage angry protests over Charlie Hebdo's Mohammed cartoon as Boko Haram terror leader hails Paris massacre

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2910126/Muslims-stage-angry-protests-Charlie-Hebdo-s-Mohammed-cartoon-Boko-Haram-terror-leader-hails-Paris-massacre.html

Edited January 15, 2015 by dragonfly94

[Morch]

How is the Muslim community in Australia responsible for this?

Yet again, I never said they were.

However, as the Muslim Community are so good at shouting that their religion is one of peace, tolerance and love. It would be nice to see them take the lead on it.

They are taking a lead, in complaining, demanding apologies and whining that we should respect their fascist ideology and the not depict the murdering pedophile prophet.

#noapology: Muslims stage angry protests over Charlie Hebdo's Mohammed cartoon as Boko Haram terror leader hails Paris massacre

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2910126/Muslims-stage-angry-protests-Charlie-Hebdo-s-Mohammed-cartoon-Boko-Haram-terror-leader-hails-Paris-massacre.html

In Australia and in connection with the Lindt attack?

[Ulysses G.]

However, as the Muslim Community are so good at shouting that their religion is one of peace, tolerance and love. It would be nice to see them take the lead on it.

Many Western liberals are even more vocal than they are about promoting this nonsense.