'Plot To Blow Up Planes' Foiled

[Crossy]

let's know if the airline has bumped your luggage allowance by 7kgs or more.

Have a safe trip.

Cheers Udon

If I get to keep my laptop I'll report from airside at DM Otherwise 'twill be 9AM CET (assuming it arrives at the other end in one piece).

[knutisan]

knutisan,

welcome to the forum.

Please click on the image below and study it carefully.

Thank you.

Thank you for telling me!but i only use big letter,s to make my point clear at some point,s

It's considered rude to use capitals.Try using the bold if you so wish to make another outstanding point clear.

sorry i did not now that

[fruittbatt]

As I mentioned in a previous posting, I am at wits end when it comes to these bloody terrorists. Of course, sitting here moaning about it on Thaivisa is hardly going to help. I would like to propose (for what its worth) my ideas on a solution to the overall "problem". The terrorism activity itself is merely a symptom of the problem, IMHO.

Symptom: Terrorism and radicalism

Problem: weak minds, low self esteem and impoverished backgrounds with very little future ahead for young ME people (men).

Solution:

-a- Arab countries must invest more from oil profits into education, basic and more advanced infrastructure, carreer training and anything that improves overall economic growth at the grass roots. Several of the oil rich Sultanates in the world have been very successful at this and have had no problems at all with terrorist activities.

-b- Although nearly impossible to implement, there must be a moratorium or a limitation on weapons and explosives trade to the middle east. It seems that guns and ammo are cheaper than water over there.

-c- Make Jerusalem and World Heritage site, governed not by one nation, but by the United Nations. It shouldnt belong to Isreal or any other nation. This last solution helps to relieve the centuries old feud of WHO should own the Holy city. In my opinion, since 3 of the worlds most prominant religions all seem to center on Jerusalem, shouldnt it belong to all and not one?

In my opinion, the only way to solve the Muslim radical problem is to choke off their hold on disenfranchised youth who are led to believe that dying promises a better future than living. Give the kids a reason to live. A future. Then they wont be so quick to blow themselves up.

I cant quite get my head around why UK Pakistanis are now rebelling against their own country and joining the madness. I can only surmise that with all the racial abuse that gets hurled at them in the UK, they are getting fed up and fighting back in the only way they know how. This problem must be nipped in the bud in the UK or many Muslims will feel the replrisals. The Muslim community MUST start doing more to police their own and be seen PUBLICALLY to be against terrorism and show ACTION, not just words.

I have edited your post a little to suggest an alternative solution:

US and their allies must invest more from corporate profits into education, basic and more advanced infrastructure, carreer training and anything that improves overall economic growth at the grass roots. Several of the oil rich Sultanates in the world have been very successful at this and have had no problems at all with terrorist activities.

-b- Although nearly impossible to implement, there must be a moratorium or a limitation on weapons and explosives trade to the middle east. It seems that guns and ammo are cheaper than water over there.

-c- Make Jerusalem and World Heritage site, governed not by one nation, but by the United Nations. It shouldnt belong to Isreal or any other nation. This last solution helps to relieve the centuries old feud of WHO should own the Holy city. In my opinion, since 3 of the worlds most prominant religions all seem to center on Jerusalem, shouldnt it belong to all and not one?

In my opinion, the only way to solve the US terrorism problem is to choke off their hold on disenfranchised youth who are led to believe that dying in a foreign war promises a better future than living. Give the kids a reason to live. A future. Then they wont be so quick to blow themselves up.

I cant quite get my head around why 80% Democrats and 60% of all Americans are now rebelling against their own country and joining the war against US terror. I can only surmise that with all the racial and economic abuse that gets hurled at them in the US, they are getting fed up and fighting back in the only way they know how. US government arms sales and war-mongering must be nipped in the bud or many Muslims will feel the replrisals. The populations of the US, Britain, Australia etc MUST start doing more to police their own governments and be seen PUBLICALLY to be against terrorism and show ACTION, not just words.

[Soju]

As I mentioned in a previous posting, I am at wits end when it comes to these bloody terrorists. Of course, sitting here moaning about it on Thaivisa is hardly going to help. I would like to propose (for what its worth) my ideas on a solution to the overall "problem". The terrorism activity itself is merely a symptom of the problem, IMHO.

Symptom: Terrorism and radicalism

Problem: weak minds, low self esteem and impoverished backgrounds with very little future ahead for young ME people (men).

Solution:

-a- Arab countries must invest more from oil profits into education, basic and more advanced infrastructure, carreer training and anything that improves overall economic growth at the grass roots. Several of the oil rich Sultanates in the world have been very successful at this and have had no problems at all with terrorist activities.

-b- Although nearly impossible to implement, there must be a moratorium or a limitation on weapons and explosives trade to the middle east. It seems that guns and ammo are cheaper than water over there.

-c- Make Jerusalem and World Heritage site, governed not by one nation, but by the United Nations. It shouldnt belong to Isreal or any other nation. This last solution helps to relieve the centuries old feud of WHO should own the Holy city. In my opinion, since 3 of the worlds most prominant religions all seem to center on Jerusalem, shouldnt it belong to all and not one?

In my opinion, the only way to solve the Muslim radical problem is to choke off their hold on disenfranchised youth who are led to believe that dying promises a better future than living. Give the kids a reason to live. A future. Then they wont be so quick to blow themselves up.

I cant quite get my head around why UK Pakistanis are now rebelling against their own country and joining the madness. I can only surmise that with all the racial abuse that gets hurled at them in the UK, they are getting fed up and fighting back in the only way they know how. This problem must be nipped in the bud in the UK or many Muslims will feel the replrisals. The Muslim community MUST start doing more to police their own and be seen PUBLICALLY to be against terrorism and show ACTION, not just words.

So how do you explain Osama Bin Ladin? He's got tons of money and opportunities, yet he's the number one muslim terrorist in the world. Providing them with opportunities will only work for some percent of them. The real problem is the religion and the way it's taught. I totally believe in freedom of religion up to the point where they don't promote violence or other acts to harm others. The western world has had a great history of allowing personal and religious freedoms, but sadly I think the time has now come where we have no option but to selectively take away certain freedoms in order to protect the society which we've created. The only solution in my mind is the total annihilation of radical religions that preach and encourage their followers to harm others. Anything else will simply be like trying to cure cancer with an aspirin.

No matter how many opportunities there are in any country, we still are stuck with thieves, rapists, murderers, etc. that must be dealt with. The same is tru in the world's religious/political arena. There are religions and countries that are willing to adhere to basic standards set forth by the world community, and then there are those that don't. The ones that don't have to be dealt with in a similar manner to what we do to criminals within our countries. Politically, war is sometimes the only option to stop a rogue nation. Religiously we draw the line and say religion is too sacred to do such a thing. But the time has come to erase that line and exterminate radical muslims and other religions who preach violence.

[fruittbatt]

Soju what you are proposing is called fascism...I think you might have a lot of christians running scared if you want to do away with religions which encourage terrorism...don't you know that george Bush is a Baptist?

Oh, and another point: will I be eliminated under your scheme because I don't share your values?..I'd like to make my will, that's all....

[Soju]

Soju what you are proposing is called fascism...I think you might have a lot of christians running scared if you want to do away with religions which encourage terrorism...don't you know that george Bush is a Baptist?

Oh, and another point: will I be eliminated under your scheme because I don't share your values?..I'd like to make my will, that's all....

I absolutely 100% for keeping freedom of any religion that doesn't cross the boundary of promoting voilence against fellow humans. Whether someone is Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Athiest, or whatever shouldn't matter as long as they respect each other's right to a peaceful existence. Sadly a few radicals, and not just Muslims, believe otherwise and such people have no right to live in my world. At least that's my opinion. Respect other people's right to existence and you get my respect. Don't respect other people's right to existence and you should not even be treated as a human. The right to live without having the fear of someone else killing you because they have a different religion than you should be a right extended to all humans. Certain religious extremists however believe that their religion is the only true religion and that anyone believing differently is sub-human and should be converted to their religion or killed. I just want to turn the table back on them and exterminate them before they try to exterminate me. I don't see anything fascist about my view at all.

[fruittbatt]

It is necessary to stick to the topic on this thread or risk having the topic closed, so I will address your remarks within the context of the London "plot". You seem to assume that religion and not politics is the motivating factor for people who might want to blow up planes....or countries. If only life were so simple....

I'm afraid that "an eye for an eye" is ultimately a lose-lose situation for everyone concerned. Who wants to be the sole righteous warrior at the end of the world? ...or at the end of the queue at Heathrow for that matter?

[Soju]

You seem to assume that religion and not politics is the motivating factor for people who might want to blow up planes....or countries. If only life were so simple....

In many cases it's next to impossible to separate religion and politics. In the case of Muslim extremists trying to blow up planes I think religion is by far the overriding factor. They think they are right and everyone else is wrong and unless someone believes exactly like they do they have no rights. They are completely 100% anti freedom-of-religion. They hate Christians, Jews, Athiests, Buddhists, and even fellow Muslims who don't believe as they do. They don't think twice of killing these "infidels" in the name of their religion. Some of the current suspects were taught at the same mosque as the bombers of the London Underground. There's obviously a HUGE problem with what is being taught to the Muslim youth and anyone who denies that something needs to be done about it has his head in the sand. Unfortunately nobody yet has the balls to do what needs to be done. I think the politicians know what has to be done but are afraid to take any action and unfortunately it is very likely that many thousands more of people will die in terrorist attacks before enough people get fed up enough and force the politicians to take action even though it may fly in the face of freedoms of political and religious expression.

I consider myself to be a very apolitical person, which may be because I live a life in which I don't find anyone oppressing me or attacking me. I couldn't care less about the politics of my home country, or the UK, or Europe or any other country. But when terrorists start bombing planes carrying innocent people, then I start to take it personally realizing that it could easily be me on one of those planes.

[GU22]

I cant quite get my head around why UK Pakistanis are now rebelling against their own country and joining the madness. I can only surmise that with all the racial abuse that gets hurled at them in the UK, they are getting fed up and fighting back in the only way they know how.

I live in an area of the UK with a large Muslim population, mostly of Pakistani ethnicity. I know many both socially and professionally, most of them in their late teens/early twenties and most born here in the UK. One of my daughters best friends is the daughter of the Imam of the local mosque.

I can confidently say that 99.9999999% of British Muslims have no sympathy whatsoever with the aims nor methods of these murderers who profess to be fighting for Islam.

The opinion of every Muslim I have discussed this with, including the aforementioned Imam, is that the terrorists are destined not for paradise, but for the darkest reaches of hel_l.

[fruittbatt]

I consider myself to be a very apolitical person, which may be because I live a life in which I don't find anyone oppressing me or attacking me. I couldn't care less about the politics of my home country, or the UK, or Europe or any other country. But when terrorists start bombing planes carrying innocent people, then I start to take it personally realizing that it could easily be me on one of those planes.

You are indeed a lucky person never to have felt oppressed, but have you ever considered that there is a link between citizens like yourself not caring how their governments oppress other countries or groups and the extreme reactions of the radical members of those countries or groups to what they perceive as invasion or oppression?

This is in no way an attempt to flame you...but I think there are some bigger considerations here than just the safety of our own skins on a plane.

[Donz]

How is this Thai related

[nganadeeleg]

How is this Thai related

It's a worldwide problem, and Thailand is part of the world.

How is the war on terrorism going to be won?

I expect things will only get worse until those in power finally fess up that the reason they want to get us is not because of 'who we are' but really because of 'what we do'.

We fool ourselves into thinking they hate us because of our freedoms - it's not that simple. These are home grown terrorists.

I can put up with the hassle of increased security because it's definitely necessary, but anyone who thinks we can win the 'war' by continuing with the same policies is going to be in for a big shock when the current crop of kids in Lebanon grow up.

[andyfletch]

Update from Crossy at DM:

PC carry on is ok - to europe, but not uk. No liquids allowed. Additional security appears to be a couple of soldiers with hand held scanners, and a sleeping sniffer dog on the exit from passport control. Scanner is waved casually in your direction, dog opens one eye and then goes back to sleep again.

Andy

PS - wireless internet still ok at DM, but Crossy has a deaf wireless card

[atlastaname]

Once again our pandering to the USA and what they want is causing us problems.

If we stopped butting into other countries business and left it to the busybody americans we wouldn't be terrorist targets , 9/11 wouldn't have happened and we would all be free to live our lives (except of course under this current labour goverment we aren't free to do anything anyway)

[knutisan]

How is this Thai related

It's a worldwide problem, and Thailand is part of the world.

How is the war on terrorism going to be won?

I expect things will only get worse until those in power finally fess up that the reason they want to get us is not because of 'who we are' but really because of 'what we do'.

We fool ourselves into thinking they hate us because of our freedoms - it's not that simple. These are home grown terrorists.

I can put up with the hassle of increased security because it's definitely necessary, but anyone who thinks we can win the 'war' by continuing with the same policies is going to be in for a big shock when the current crop of kids in Lebanon grow up.

The weapon producing country,s in the world ned enemies,so this will continue

[fruittbatt]

anyone who thinks we can win the 'war' by continuing with the same policies is going to be in for a big shock when the current crop of kids in Lebanon grow up.

I think that should read "IF the current crop of kids in Lebanon grows up"

[dog412]

the u.n. should require all airlines to "carry" the image of the danish cartoons, to ensure equality in the targeting of all airlines is equal.

[mbkudu]

If they'd just pull all the **racist comments deleted****out of the desert, all this terrrorizm would stop.

[Crossy]

Update from Crossy at DM:

PC carry on is ok - to europe, but not uk. No liquids allowed. Additional security appears to be a couple of soldiers with hand held scanners, and a sleeping sniffer dog on the exit from passport control. Scanner is waved casually in your direction, dog opens one eye and then goes back to sleep again.

Marginally increased security at Changi (Singapore), transit passengers to UK must check in all bags.

Otherwise business as usual

[britmaveric]

If they'd just pull all the ***racist comments deleted*** out of the desert, all this terrrorizm would stop.

Dont think so!!!

[GU22]

If they'd just pull all the **racist comment deleted*** out of the desert, all this terrrorizm would stop.

A very naive view.

Have a read through The Wahhabi Myth, a website run by Muslims who are members of the Islamic sect used by Bin Laden as justification for his terrorism. It will is a good indication of the disgust even fundamental Muslims feel toward him, and toward terrorism.

See especially Is Fighting the U.S. Osama Bin Laden's Front for a Different Objective?

He wants the U.S. to strike back disproportionately, because he believes that will outrage Muslims and inspire them to overthrow their governments and build an Islamic state.

[Soju]

Once again our pandering to the USA and what they want is causing us problems.

If we stopped butting into other countries business and left it to the busybody americans we wouldn't be terrorist targets , 9/11 wouldn't have happened and we would all be free to live our lives (except of course under this current labour goverment we aren't free to do anything anyway)

Oh, I think you need to go back and review recent history. 9/11 was an attack on USA soil, not on the UK. Regardless of what any other country was doing, 9/11 was an attack on the USA. Whether your country had stayed out of other countries business or not it still would have happened.

[Soju]

I consider myself to be a very apolitical person, which may be because I live a life in which I don't find anyone oppressing me or attacking me. I couldn't care less about the politics of my home country, or the UK, or Europe or any other country. But when terrorists start bombing planes carrying innocent people, then I start to take it personally realizing that it could easily be me on one of those planes.

You are indeed a lucky person never to have felt oppressed, but have you ever considered that there is a link between citizens like yourself not caring how their governments oppress other countries or groups and the extreme reactions of the radical members of those countries or groups to what they perceive as invasion or oppression?

This is in no way an attempt to flame you...but I think there are some bigger considerations here than just the safety of our own skins on a plane.

The point of governments oppressing other countries is very much a matter of personal opinion and not fact, even though politically motivated people almost always present it as fact. Without bringing into the discussion any real countreis, because that will just invoke immediate knee-jerk responses based on emotions, let's say there are two countries, Country A and Country B. They have a squabble between themselves and citizens of both countries are oppressed by the opposing country. Country C looks at the situation and thinks that Country A is in the right and Country B is being unreasonable. So they come to Country A's defense. You on the other hand see the situation as being Country B is in the right and Country A is being unreasonable, so you see it as Country C is helping to oppress the citizens of Country B by helping out Country A. Add to the equation a long history of conflict and anomosity between the people of Country A and Country B and one or both of those countries have their minds set on trying to wipe the other country off the face of the earth and deny their country's citizens the right to their own country, and you end up with extremes in opinions of people as to who is right and who is wrong. Even if I feel like Country B is the most oppressed, I don't dislike people or my own government for supporting Country A, even though I may think they're wrong and may voice my opinion, because I realize it's very much a matter of personal opinion as to which side is right or wrong. A few cases may have no or very little room for a gray area and are pretty much cut-and-dry cases of one country flat out oppressing another. Hitler's extermination of the Jews during WWII comes to mind.

As you can see, there's no right or wrong answer when it comes to politics. Everyone has a different opinion. At the end of the day, it comes down to world opinion and also who has the biggest stick and is willing to use it.

[fruittbatt]

At the end of the day, it comes down to world opinion and also who has the biggest stick and is willing to use it.

There is no such thing as "world" opinion: the US is NOT the world . However, I can only agree with you that yes, "it" (I presume you mean the oppression and genocide of countries with less power and resources than Western superpowers) does come down to who has the biggest stick. And we all know who that is, right?

In the context of the topic, i believe it is necessary to understand the dynamics of global power politics and economics in order to make sense of the alleged "plot" in London.

[Soju]

I can confidently say that 99.9999999% of British Muslims have no sympathy whatsoever with the aims nor methods of these murderers who profess to be fighting for Islam.

An obvious gross overstatement. 99.9999999% would be 1 in 1 billion, and there aren't even that many people, much less muslims, living in England. Not to mention, how would you even know for sure what someone's real feelings are? Do you think if you talked to a Muslim who did sympathize with the terrorists that they'd tell you and risk being branded a terrorist themselves? I'm not British, but have spent considerable time in London and met many extremely angry Muslims in public trying to proclaim their point-of-view, and it wasn't pretty. They may have just been a vocal minority, but I assure you there are enough of these extremists and sympathizers of the extremists to be very worried and to see the need to take some action against them.

Undoubtedly there are many Muslims who totally disagree with everything the terrorists are doing, but the problem as I see it is that the Quran which most Muslims hold to be sacred actually has verses promoting the murder of "infidels". As I see it, anyone who belives in the Quran and takes it literally is a potential risk at being or sympathizing with the terrorists. Some of them might disagree with the terrorists' methods of bombing planes mainly because sometimes innocent Muslims will be killed along with the "infidels".

I grew up next to a Muslim family. They seemed normal and would never have suspected them to be people who would hate people not of their same religion. One time I was in their house and the news came on TV and a news item about something to do with Israel. The woman immediately went into a total rage about how she hated all Jews and that they were all pigs and deserved to die. It was quite scary seeing her reaction and how she totally lost control at the mere mention of Jews. She then realized that there was company in her house and excused herself. I then left and never went back to their house after seeing that.

[Soju]

At the end of the day, it comes down to world opinion and also who has the biggest stick and is willing to use it.

There is no such thing as "world" opinion: the US is NOT the world . However, I can only agree with you that yes, "it" (I presume you mean the oppression and genocide of countries with less power and resources than Western superpowers) does come down to who has the biggest stick. And we all know who that is, right?

In the context of the topic, i believe it is necessary to understand the dynamics of global power politics and economics in order to make sense of the alleged "plot" in London.

I see this discussion turning too much into specific politics of cetain governments which is a subject I don't wish to discuss, so I think I'll bow out. I don't see any possible way discussing politics on a board like this is going to change anyone's mind nor make any real difference. In other words it would just be a waste of time and bandwidth.

[AlexLah]

Hi all

Just arrived in Australia from BKK.

Battery of labtop had to be removed and put in check in luggage.

No ballpoints pencils allowed in hand luggage.

No any fluids, gels allowed in hand lugagge.

All of your liquid tax free purchases are not allowed to carry as hand luggage.

Ok as these rules are new for now (they told me) the tax free liquids were put in a plastic bag and most likely went through security scan and then put in luggage compartiment.

On arrival in Aus I could then get my tax free stuff back.

I find it a bit weird as there are no scanners anywhere in the world at airports that can detect liquid explosives.

Thai airways lady told me that in the coming months ore maybe years no liquids, gell, toothpaste and so on are allowed in hand luggage anymore.

So I guess the tax free shops wil not be allowed to sell any liquids alcohol, perfume anymore?

If you travel in the coming weeks make sure you arrive more then 2 hours before departure as I have seen the waiting lines because of people had to empty their hand luggage as they were not informed before.

I was lucky to travel business class so no waiting line.

Also upon arrival (in Aus) about 50% of the people had to open up their suitcases to be checked by immigration officers.

More news as it breaks!

Alex

[knutisan]

At the end of the day, it comes down to world opinion and also who has the biggest stick and is willing to use it.

There is no such thing as "world" opinion: the US is NOT the world . However, I can only agree with you that yes, "it" (I presume you mean the oppression and genocide of countries with less power and resources than Western superpowers) does come down to who has the biggest stick. And we all know who that is, right?

In the context of the topic, i believe it is necessary to understand the dynamics of global power politics and economics in order to make sense of the alleged "plot" in London.

I see this discussion turning too much into specific politics of cetain governments which is a subject I don't wish to discuss, so I think I'll bow out. I don't see any possible way discussing politics on a board like this is going to change anyone's mind nor make any real difference. In other words it would just be a waste of time and bandwidth.

why will it not change anyone,s min,d or meaning?Anyway the war on terror should be named what it is ,and that is ! war on oil!Because i think it is about controling the oil resources in the arab world

[knutisan]

At the end of the day, it comes down to world opinion and also who has the biggest stick and is willing to use it.

There is no such thing as "world" opinion: the US is NOT the world . However, I can only agree with you that yes, "it" (I presume you mean the oppression and genocide of countries with less power and resources than Western superpowers) does come down to who has the biggest stick. And we all know who that is, right?

In the context of the topic, i believe it is necessary to understand the dynamics of global power politics and economics in order to make sense of the alleged "plot" in London.

I see this discussion turning too much into specific politics of cetain governments which is a subject I don't wish to discuss, so I think I'll bow out. I don't see any possible way discussing politics on a board like this is going to change anyone's mind nor make any real difference. In other words it would just be a waste of time and bandwidth.

why will it not change anyone,s min,d or meaning?Anyway the war on terror should be named what it is ,and that is ! war on oil!Because i think it is about controling the oil resources in the arab world

[fruittbatt]

I see this discussion turning too much into specific politics of cetain governments which is a subject I don't wish to discuss, so I think I'll bow out. I don't see any possible way discussing politics on a board like this is going to change anyone's mind nor make any real difference. In other words it would just be a waste of time and bandwidth.

why will it not change anyone,s min,d or meaning?Anyway the war on terror should be named what it is ,and that is ! war on oil!Because i think it is about controling the oil resources in the arab world

I think the point of a forum is to share and exchange ideas on a given topic, and to argue both logically and passionately for the values you believe in...The great thing is that everyone will think differently and so we all get to understand more clearly how others on the planet think and feel...even though we may totally disagree with their analyses. Those who are humble enough to admit that we are sometimes wrong, may even begin to change our minds because we can see events in a different way thanks to someone else's words.