Myanmar says workers innocent of murdering Britons on Koh Tao

[sweatalot]

Not a chance,

Dear Leader has put his friend and ally as Head of the RTP.

Dear Leader has very publicly backed the investigation.

Dear Leader has insulted the female victim and western women in general, and made a token apology.

Dear Leader can't loose face, hence the Burmese will be found guilty.

I'm wondering if the PM is now gonna stop defending the RTP in public (other than the usual bland comments) and let the RTP get hammered on this one in Court as part of the cleaning up process he has in mind ...

But what would happen if they were found guilty?

Probably a massive shitstorm that can blow away not only the RTP

[boomerangutang]

The British cororner would be a fantastic witness, but I think the icing on the cake would be Sean.

Sean knows what happened, indeed I think he was an eye witness.

Sean, it's rumoured your were a friend of David....don't let David or his family down.

Be brave and do the right thing

Don't let another two innocent young lives be taken away.

Their is one very important witness they could call. He would have nothing to fear from this country. That would be the British coroner.

Yes,bori. I saw that video of Sean on the truck. When he mentioned the murders, he looked like he had a very clear picture of the horror in his mind.

Star witnesses for defense.

1.mon

2.policeman with mon.

3.Sean

4.British coroner.

And let's not forget. All new brit approved dna testing.

It's not Nomsod or Mon who are on trial. And it's doubtful either side will call them as witnesses. Same for the big eared policeman who, along with Mon, threatened to kill Sean if Sean told any of what he knew. If any of those goons were on the witness stand, they'd simple say, "I don't know nuttin'"

Sean, however, could be a star witness for the defense, if he could stand up to the inevitable grilling about his character from the prosecution.

The Brit coroner will probably try to get out of it any way he can, if called as a witness. The Brits haven't declared anything thus far publicly, and appear to be siding with the RTP because the Brits didn't find any independent data (they weren't allowed to look) on the island, so it's less hassle to simply go along with the globby goop the RTP dished out to them. Perhaps the Brits found interesting DNA evidence from the victims independently, but again, it would be more diplomat to simple be vague, than to mention things which could bust a hole in the Thaitanic. Plus, Thai officials have already stated they aren't sharing DNA findings with the Brits. The official Thai reason: "The Brits trust everything we're doing, so there's no need to share DNA findings with them."

[siampolee]

One could surmise that Myanmar being an old British colony that perhaps certain details may have been leaked to those in power and that might have been the catalyst for the Myanmar governments stance and statement.

More than one to skin a cat or to find the real killers you know

[BritTim]

So in the video around 2:00 it says that the investigators have interviewed 40 Burmese witnesses now in Myanmar who may have witnessed the attacks. Don't the 40 potential Burmese witnesses know if they witnessed the attacks or not?

Yes, they know. However, the people who interviewed them must allow for the possibility that their testimony is false, aimed at helping their worker friends.

[Briggsy]

It is important to remember Prayuth and Somyot face their most threatening enemies from within the Thai circles of power, from other factions and networks with wealth and power in politics, the police and the army.

I am sure that those who have not done well out of this regime have been willing to share little bits of information with the Burmese about what the Tuvichian family has been up to and Suthep Theuaksuban's role in sabotaging any investigation.

[sweatalot]

The Brit coroner will probably try to get out of it any way he can, if called as a witness. The Brits haven't declared anything thus far publicly, and appear to be siding with the RTP because the Brits didn't find any independent data (they weren't allowed to look) on the island, so it's less hassle to simply go along with the globby goop the RTP dished out to them. Perhaps the Brits found interesting DNA evidence from the victims independently, but again, it would be more diplomat to simple be vague, than to mention things which could bust a hole in the Thaitanic. Plus, Thai officials have already stated they aren't sharing DNA findings with the Brits. The official Thai reason: "The Brits trust everything we're doing, so there's no need to share DNA findings with them."

" things which could bust a hole in the Thaitanic "

[Tatsujin]

It is important to remember Prayuth and Somyot face their most threatening enemies from within the Thai circles of power, from other factions and networks with wealth and power in politics, the police and the army.

I am sure that those who have not done well out of this regime have been willing to share little bits of information with the Burmese about what the Tuvichian family has been up to and Suthep Theuaksuban's role in sabotaging any investigation.

Care to elaborate a bit ...?

[JLCrab]

So in the video around 2:00 it says that the investigators have interviewed 40 Burmese witnesses now in Myanmar who may have witnessed the attacks. Don't the 40 potential Burmese witnesses know if they witnessed the attacks or not?

Yes, they know. However, the people who interviewed them must allow for the possibility that their testimony is false, aimed at helping their worker friends.

So why didn't they just say that?

[JLCrab]

Re Post #132 and the UK Coroner appearing as a trial witness, an official record of the UK Coroner's inquest most likely could be introduced as evidence in support of the defense if that proved to be the case:

26. Is it possible to obtain a record of the inquest?

26.1 Once an inquest has been completed, a properly interested person may apply to see the notes of evidence, any document put in evidence at the inquest, or a copy of any post-mortem examination report. Copies may be obtained following payment of a fee to the coroner. The notes may be in the form of a transcript from a tape-recording or the coroner’s own notes. The coroner’s notes may not be a full, verbatim record.

-- from UK Ministry of Justice Guide to Coroners and Inquests (2009)

[BritTim]

So in the video around 2:00 it says that the investigators have interviewed 40 Burmese witnesses now in Myanmar who may have witnessed the attacks. Don't the 40 potential Burmese witnesses know if they witnessed the attacks or not?

Yes, they know. However, the people who interviewed them must allow for the possibility that their testimony is false, aimed at helping their worker friends.

So why didn't they just say that?

Perhaps, they felt a single word rather than a multiple sentence explanation fitted better for a statement where sound bites are all important. There was nothing obviously dishonest in what they presented. Quite the contrary: I think they believe what they said.

[Willy Eckerslike]

EDIT, not meant to be attached to the previous post...

I Think..............that the judge might throw the case out due to lack of evidence proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt... that way he is not saying they are innocent or guilty....and he will probably deport the accused................there will still be a lingering doubt in peoples minds but ...........Myanmar will be happy.................. the RTP will breath a sigh of relief.................Whilst blaming the prosecution for effin up their perfect case..............and because the B2 were not proven innocent............there will be no need for any further enquiries...........................Just a thought

Edited December 19, 2014 by Willy Eckerslike

[JLCrab]

So in the video around 2:00 it says that the investigators have interviewed 40 Burmese witnesses now in Myanmar who may have witnessed the attacks. Don't the 40 potential Burmese witnesses know if they witnessed the attacks or not?

Yes, they know. However, the people who interviewed them must allow for the possibility that their testimony is false, aimed at helping their worker friends.

So why didn't they just say that?

Perhaps, they felt a single word rather than a multiple sentence explanation fitted better for a statement where sound bites are all important. There was nothing obviously dishonest in what they presented. Quite the contrary: I think they believe what they said.

Obviously.

[JOC]

So in the video around 2:00 it says that the investigators have interviewed 40 Burmese witnesses now in Myanmar who may have witnessed the attacks. Don't the 40 potential Burmese witnesses know if they witnessed the attacks or not?

Yes, they know. However, the people who interviewed them must allow for the possibility that their testimony is false, aimed at helping their worker friends.

Don't you think, that the Myanmar investigators would have considered that option??

Since they really are sticking out their neck, they really must have something solid. They would never risk the normally good ties with Thailand, unless they thought that the witnesses statements could indeed free the scapegoats!!

The RTP is getting the one-fingersalute from the Myanmar Government.

Probably with good reason!!

[JOC]

Just a thought.

Maybe the reason for the Brits being so silent after their visit here is, that behind closed doors they have been assisting the Myanmar investigators.

In that way they are making sure, that the scapegoats are not executed, for a crime they didn't commit, and at the same time are keeping the good ties between the UK and Thailand intact!!

I don't believe the Brits left emptyhanded, they are not stupid, but have been playing it the diplomatic way by sharing information with the Myanmar Government!

[mojorison]

Why should it not be possible to bring the Burmese workers who fled to Burma back

under protection of their government and then back to Burma.

May be even some money could be found as a substitute for their loss of income in Thailand.

Would it be a total fantasy that the Thai government can guarantee the safety of these witnesses.

I say if the PM it's sincere, he needs to send in DSI into KT and expose any corruption. Jail those breaking the law, including police who have been extorting illegal migrant workers permission to stay, in the name of the royal kingdom. If these figures are out of the picture, witness would not be so intimidated. I know powerful families made many enemies and there are plenty of folks ready to snitch on them whenever they get a chance.

No offence, but the beloved supreme ruler is a cog in the machine. He sits at about number 8 or so in the pecking order. He has as much desire to get to the bottom of this as you would desire to catch ebola.

[greenchair]

Re Post #132 and the UK Coroner appearing as a trial witness, an official record of the UK Coroner's inquest most likely could be introduced as evidence in support of the defense if that proved to be the case:

26. Is it possible to obtain a record of the inquest?

26.1 Once an inquest has been completed, a properly interested person may apply to see the notes of evidence, any document put in evidence at the inquest, or a copy of any post-mortem examination report. Copies may be obtained following payment of a fee to the coroner. The notes may be in the form of a transcript from a tape-recording or the coroners own notes. The coroners notes may not be a full, verbatim record.

-- from UK Ministry of Justice Guide to Coroners and Inquests (2009)

The brit cops more or less said 'we can't help you but this guy can' there is only only reason the prosecution would not ask for this report. Nor do they mention a single word from the brit police.

The brit coroner report is golden to all.

[JLCrab]

So in the video around 2:00 it says that the investigators have interviewed 40 Burmese witnesses now in Myanmar who may have witnessed the attacks. Don't the 40 potential Burmese witnesses know if they witnessed the attacks or not?

Yes, they know. However, the people who interviewed them must allow for the possibility that their testimony is false, aimed at helping their worker friends.

Don't you think, that the Myanmar investigators would have considered that option??

Since they really are sticking out their neck, they really must have something solid. They would never risk the normally good ties with Thailand, unless they thought that the witnesses statements could indeed free the scapegoats!!

The RTP is getting the one-fingersalute from the Myanmar Government.

Probably with good reason!!

I have no idea what information has or has not been provided to the Myanmar investigators by workers from Koh Tao who have fled to back home to Myanmar. All I know is at their press conference as reported they have decided not to reveal in any manner the substance of their evidence or proof of the Myanmar citizen's innocence. If the UK forensic team has been assisting the Burmese investigators with evidence to exculpate the Myanmar citizens, then that apparently would be evidence that they did not share with the victim's families or their local UK police liaison.

Edited December 19, 2014 by JLCrab

[CantSpell]

And of course, had the police said the toxicology reports showed the victims had drugs in their systems before their deaths, then that would open up another crate load of worms that they would have to deal with.

(No, I do not believe the B2 are guilty, but ...) if David had really been strung out on drugs, it would be slightly more credible that the B2 could overpower him without suffering any injury themselves. Just maybe, the RTP pitched this to the British cops and made them believe it. This would tie in with the statements by the families.

Though I think I remember that it was mentioned that David hands were bruised as after a fight, so that doesn't add up: he apparently fought someone..

[thailandchilli]

And of course, had the police said the toxicology reports showed the victims had drugs in their systems before their deaths, then that would open up another crate load of worms that they would have to deal with.

(No, I do not believe the B2 are guilty, but ...) if David had really been strung out on drugs, it would be slightly more credible that the B2 could overpower him without suffering any injury themselves. Just maybe, the RTP pitched this to the British cops and made them believe it. This would tie in with the statements by the families.

Though I think I remember that it was mentioned that David hands were bruised as after a fight, so that doesn't add up: he apparently fought someone..

Pretty sure there were no recreational drugs in David. There is an alleged autopsy report online and it has no trace of drugs. Somyot when asked about this also at first said no, then maybe, then he would not reveal out of 'respect for the families' thus leaving all options open to speculation.....

[greenchair]

The British cororner would be a fantastic witness, but I think the icing on the cake would be Sean.

Sean knows what happened, indeed I think he was an eye witness.

Sean, it's rumoured your were a friend of David....don't let David or his family down.

Be brave and do the right thing

Don't let another two innocent young lives be taken away.

Their is one very important witness they could call. He would have nothing to fear from this country. That would be the British coroner.

Yes,bori. I saw that video of Sean on the truck. When he mentioned the murders, he looked like he had a very clear picture of the horror in his mind.
Star witnesses for defense.

1.mon

2.policeman with mon.

3.Sean

4.British coroner.

And let's not forget. All new brit approved dna testing.

It's not Nomsod or Mon who are on trial. And it's doubtful either side will call them as witnesses. Same for the big eared policeman who, along with Mon, threatened to kill Sean if Sean told any of what he knew. If any of those goons were on the witness stand, they'd simple say, "I don't know nuttin'"

Sean, however, could be a star witness for the defense, if he could stand up to the inevitable grilling about his character from the prosecution.

The Brit coroner will probably try to get out of it any way he can, if called as a witness. The Brits haven't declared anything thus far publicly, and appear to be siding with the RTP because the Brits didn't find any independent data (they weren't allowed to look) on the island, so it's less hassle to simply go along with the globby goop the RTP dished out to them. Perhaps the Brits found interesting DNA evidence from the victims independently, but again, it would be more diplomat to simple be vague, than to mention things which could bust a hole in the Thaitanic. Plus, Thai officials have already stated they aren't sharing DNA findings with the Brits. The official Thai reason: "The Brits trust everything we're doing, so there's no need to share DNA findings with them."

Well I nomsod is as useful to the defense as a pimple on a donkeys arse.
I just wanted to repost the interesting information so everyone gets to see before the trolls come.

[MaxLee]

Oh boy.........Could be some serious loss of face coming around the corner for the RTP....

Well hopefully the Myanmar investigation team will not be killed like the Saudi Arabia

investigation team for the blue diamond affaire...

Well you better make sure those witnesses are protected well,... or otherwise,.....

.....

[26vinny]

Scotland yard should release its findings to the defence lawyers only then it might be GAME ON

[cookee68]

Myanmar are going to say that, if the so said witnesses exist, then I don't see any harm coming to them as they will be in the worlds spotlight, and protected by their own government, I think Myanmar are getting a bit of the Thai bullshit syndrome

[Briggsy]

Myanmar are going to say that, if the so said witnesses exist, then I don't see any harm coming to them as they will be in the worlds spotlight, and protected by their own government, I think Myanmar are getting a bit of the Thai bullshit syndrome

I thiink you have no understanding of the context here. For an ASEAN country to come out and bluntly state that another ASEAN country's judicial system and police force is wrong, period, is unprecedented.

For them to do it over the plight of a couple of unskilled migrant workers is incredible.

They would only do this if there was absolutely no doubt and the Thais had rebuffed their approaches via diplomatic channels.

You need to see things in context.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Briggsy

[cookee68]

If Thailand really want to see real justice in this case, how difficult can it be to guarantee the security and safety of the witnesses??

Let them be escorted to the courthouse by Embassy staff and HRW staff, and after their testimony escorted back to the border by the same people.

Whatever small charges the witnesses my face in Thailand should be voided in the interest of justice in the all important murdercase.

Or is that too simple??

It is that simple, but people have not considered the fact that did the 2 BB do this crime? maybe they did and it is just wind what the Myanmar people say or think, we will all see and hear more when the day comes in court,

[JOC]

If Thailand really want to see real justice in this case, how difficult can it be to guarantee the security and safety of the witnesses??

Let them be escorted to the courthouse by Embassy staff and HRW staff, and after their testimony escorted back to the border by the same people.

Whatever small charges the witnesses my face in Thailand should be voided in the interest of justice in the all important murdercase.

Or is that too simple??

It is that simple, but people have not considered the fact that did the 2 BB do this crime? maybe they did and it is just wind what the Myanmar people say or think, we will all see and hear more when the day comes in court,

Read Briggsy's post above yours!! (#154)

[cookee68]

Myanmar are going to say that, if the so said witnesses exist, then I don't see any harm coming to them as they will be in the worlds spotlight, and protected by their own government, I think Myanmar are getting a bit of the Thai bullshit syndrome

I thiink you have no understanding of the context here. For an ASEAN country to come out and bluntly state that another ASEAN country's judicial system and police force is wrong, period, is unprecedented.

For them to do it over the plight of a couple of unskilled migrant workers is incredible.

They would only do this if there was absolutely no doubt and the Thais had rebuffed their approaches via diplomatic channels.

You need to see things in context.

ASEAN countries have done it before, Cambodia did it, so what is the big problem, it is being watched by many countries now, so I would say that it would no be so unprecedented to suggest that the police and the judicial system is wrong, even the Thai people and police force themselves have been under so much investigations lately, who would disagree

[cookee68]

If Thailand really want to see real justice in this case, how difficult can it be to guarantee the security and safety of the witnesses??

Let them be escorted to the courthouse by Embassy staff and HRW staff, and after their testimony escorted back to the border by the same people.

Whatever small charges the witnesses my face in Thailand should be voided in the interest of justice in the all important murdercase.

Or is that too simple??

It is that simple, but people have not considered the fact that did the 2 BB do this crime? maybe they did and it is just wind what the Myanmar people say or think, we will all see and hear more when the day comes in court,

Read Briggsy's post above yours!! (#154)

I did and I gave my response

[sgtsabai]

"Some of those interviewed were "strong witnesses" who might provide evidence to exonerate the accused, said Kyaw Thaung, who heads the committee, but they were reluctant to testify and had returned to Myanmar for fear of being implicated in the crime." I think that should have read: for fear of being real dead, real soon. Like most on the island, they probably know that not only did the B2 not do the crime, they know who did and that it isn't the first time. While I doubt public assassination, and I doubt there are many, if any, Thai long range Thai experts, there are people that would give it a try ($$$$$$$$) and all it would take is the try to shut the witnesses up permanently. We have to remember, these witnesses are not people used to anything but fear, poverty and abuse, certainly not Spec. Ops. types. Also remember, they could be charged with a crime for being in Thailand illegally, does anyone believe our dear leader will give them immunity much less protection?

[CharlieH]

Off topic removed