Why bad news for the ruble could spell disaster for the dollar

[F430murci]

We will never say "yes, Sir" to US or someone else even 1 dollar would be 1000 Rub. So you can dream here of everything but most of us think that problem is in anglo-suxons world which continues to drink our blood)))

I said this long ago on here when Pub and others were touting Obama and his glorious sanctions. I said Obama is a short sighted idiot trying to save face on a personal level because Putin has dogged him every step of the way. I said stop with the sanctions because it only hurts innocent Russians and USA long term. Putin will never blink and will go isolationist before be caves to someone like Obama. Obama is just stupid to see it or, worse, he is caught up more in pride to care who he harms which is somewhat consistent with his domestic policies of late.

[Publicus]

The CIA hasn't always been right in their projections but current developments and trends show they sure do know how to work an oil field here and there...and who knows, the way things are going the Locusts in Langley just may be right this time....

CIA Director John Brenan spent several years in SA as station chief there so he has a battery of moles in Saudi state oil companies and in the field. Putin is indeed preparing to go after the Russian Central Bank because he's certain there are CIA-turned moles in that institution who he's convinced engineered the disastrous 650 basis point stranglehold on the economy rate hike.

Cesar Chavez's chosen successor Nicholas Maduro has seen the dollar rise 1700 percent against the bolivar since he took office and has now lost his best buddy Raul Castro to the United States while having to reduce discounted oil and food supplies to Cuba.

The CIA engineered oil glut to bring down Putin and Maduro

The result of the sudden decline in oil prices has resulted in heavy damage to the economies of the CIA-targeted countries of Russia, Iran, and Venezuela. Brennan and his economic warfare operatives banked on the Saudi overproduction to harm the economies of all three countries and the CIA has not been disappointed. Russian Central Bank Vice Chairman Sergei Shvetsov said, What is happening is a nightmare that we could not even have imagined a year ago. The CIA figures that the governments of Vladimir Putin in Russia, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei in Iran, and Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela will have long since collapsed and been replaced by pro-Western regimes within 5 years.

http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_68648.shtml

Congrats. You are quoting an article by Wayne Madsen from Axis of Logic site. You are no better than Asiantravler dude with whom you argue as you both rely on extreme, nutty views/websites . . . just conspiracy/nutty views from the opposite sides of the spectrum.

Haha, no wonder your non-sitting in the USA for years self is so messed up on economic issues and social issues such as race relations given the reading material with which you educate yourself.

I doubt Asiantravler even believes most of what he writes on here as none of it ever pans out and most of it is correct as done by Craig a few posts above.. i think he just writes this stuff to get a rise out of people. Do you actially believe the writings of Madsen?

Do you actially believe the writings of Madsen?

#8852691

Its the source, not the content. The source speaks to your agenda, but acceptance of his writings because they appeal to your desires makes it no more reliable or better than Asiantraveler apparently wanting to believe sites like americaisgoingtohell.com to supports his agendas.

Still not sure if Asiantraveler believes the strange sites or merely cites them to get a rise out of people.

Nevertheless, the point is the source is not reliable and the message is not credible merely because it coincides or supports your agenda.

It sure looks like I've been bad again so it's a good thing the internet police got here just in the nick of time. I'm beginning to appreciate Ethan Hunt and the Boston babe with the TransAm.

I'm smiling at you as you speak because posting to an online opinion forum and general discussion board that is open to the general public means members may post as they will subject to forum rules and to the general rules of common etiquette, which is what I try to do at the minimum.

Here for instance lese majeste is absolutely prohibited but saying the president of the United States hates the United States and is consciously doing all he can to destroy it is permitted speech, .indeed, as wrongheaded as the latter belief is, a poster is free to say that or much worse, along with other untruths such as gay Muslim born outside the US etc etc.. .It's the American Way.

The thread topic is the ruble, usd and China also comes into it, which is all I'm thinking about. I did make a post discussing my thoughts in the matter. Which means I'm simply posting here and not trying to be anyone's big brave hero.

So you might wanna save the strong arm for the people who are impressed by it because I'm not.

[NeverSure]

We will never say "yes, Sir" to US or someone else even 1 dollar would be 1000 Rub. So you can dream here of everything but most of us think that problem is in anglo-suxons world which continues to drink our blood)))

I said this long ago on here when Pub and others were touting Obama and his glorious sanctions. I said Obama is a short sighted idiot trying to save face on a personal level because Putin has dogged him every step of the way. I said stop with the sanctions because it only hurts innocent Russians and USA long term. Putin will never blink and will go isolationist before be caves to someone like Obama. Obama is just stupid to see it or, worse, he is caught up more in pride to care who he harms which is somewhat consistent with his domestic policies of late.

I usually like your posts and often click "like." But this one I don't understand.

Obama doesn't have the power to do this. The Saudis once lost a lot of their customers when they drove the price of oil too high. Now in a world awash in oil they aren't about to do that again and so they are supplying.

The US is awash in oil with record supplies on hand and is selling it. Canada, Argentina, other ME countries and Russia all have either some or a lot of dependence on oil money and are selling all they can.

There is a worldwide oil glut. Prices have dropped. The US suppliers are private and aren't under the control of the government. There's a rush to obtain and keep customers, and for some countries a desperate need to support economies and people.

When this first started I thought the US was behind it because of The Ukraine and Syria. But it's not true. There's simply a worldwide oil glut and prices are cheap from competition.

PS I can't stand Obama and am not apologizing for him. He just doesn't control oil or oil markets.

[lovetotravel]

We will never say "yes, Sir" to US or someone else even 1 dollar would be 1000 Rub. So you can dream here of everything but most of us think that problem is in anglo-suxons world which continues to drink our blood)))

The world never asked Russia to say "yes, Sir" for anything. Just get out of Ukraine. Seems pretty simple to me. Respect a sovereign nations' territorial borders. Just like other's respect Russia's.

Your statement seems to be at the heart of the matter. Nobody is trying to "drink your blood". Not sure why anybody would ever think that. Maybe it's due to the Russian media's portrayal of things?

We live in a global society. You can't just take things at the end of a gun because you feel you have a right to do so.

Makes me think of the last Iraq warn. Inaccurate information fed to the American population caused them to want the war. Same thing happening to Russians?

[lovetotravel]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/26/investing/russia-central-bank-foreign-reserves/

Russia's central bank is running down its stash of foreign cash to try to stop its currency from plunging and contain the crisis threatening its economy.

So far this year the central bank has burned through more than $110 billion in foreign currency supplies. That's more than a quarter of what it has in reserves right now.

................

Last week a local bank collapsed, and the rates Russia banks lend to each other have jumped. Overnight rates are now nearly 19%, indicating just how serious the funding crisis has become.

[mania]

We will never say "yes, Sir" to US or someone else even 1 dollar would be 1000 Rub. So you can dream here of everything but most of us think that problem is in anglo-suxons world which continues to drink our blood)))

The world never asked Russia to say "yes, Sir" for anything. Just get out of Ukraine. Seems pretty simple to me. Respect a sovereign nations' territorial borders. Just like other's respect Russia's.

Your statement seems to be at the heart of the matter. Nobody is trying to "drink your blood". Not sure why anybody would ever think that. Maybe it's due to the Russian media's portrayal of things?

We live in a global society. You can't just take things at the end of a gun because you feel you have a right to do so.

Makes me think of the last Iraq war. Inaccurate information fed to the American population caused them to want the war. Same thing happening to Russians?

True but hard to respect the US saying to one respect borders while using multiple veto's to allow others to disrespect borders elsewhere.

But as your last sentence says...folks like us at our level of information feeds are likely getting a fraction of the truth

Edited December 28, 2014 by Scott

[lovetotravel]

100% agree. But it's a huge difference trying to influence a nation like Ukraine through diplomatic or economic channels versus outright invasion. No comparison.

As I said, I'm 100% against any war, any invasion. It's the poor people who suffer.

[NeverSure]

We will never say "yes, Sir" to US or someone else even 1 dollar would be 1000 Rub. So you can dream here of everything but most of us think that problem is in anglo-suxons world which continues to drink our blood)))

The world never asked Russia to say "yes, Sir" for anything. Just get out of Ukraine. Seems pretty simple to me. Respect a sovereign nations' territorial borders. Just like other's respect Russia's.

Your statement seems to be at the heart of the matter. Nobody is trying to "drink your blood". Not sure why anybody would ever think that. Maybe it's due to the Russian media's portrayal of things?

We live in a global society. You can't just take things at the end of a gun because you feel you have a right to do so.

Makes me think of the last Iraq war. Inaccurate information fed to the American population caused them to want the war. Same thing happening to Russians?

True but hard to respect the US saying to one respect borders while using multiple veto's to allow others to disrespect borders elsewhere.

But as your last sentence says...folks like us at our level of information feeds are likely

getting a fraction of the truth

Russia by messing with Ukraine was violating a treaty called The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. In consideration of Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons several countries including Russia, The US and The UK promised to defend Ukraine against outside aggression. Russia knew it was asking for it when it started messing with Ukraine.

That was before the oil crash when Putin thought he was King of The Mountain in Europe.

Of course the US would intervene. It had made a solemn promise to do so.

"According to the memorandum, Russia, the U.S., and the UK confirmed, in recognition of Ukraine becoming party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and in effect abandoning its nuclear arsenal to Russia, that they would:

Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.

Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.

Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.

Seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, "if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".

Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.

Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments."

LINK

Russia violated and other countries put sanctions on them. That's not to mention that the US is convinced that Russia had a part in shooting down an airliner and has accused Russia of it, and other problems which have occurred such as arming Crimea.

Edited December 28, 2014 by NeverSure

[mania]

100% agree. But it's a huge difference trying to influence a nation like Ukraine through diplomatic or economic channels versus outright invasion. No comparison.

As I said, I'm 100% against any war, any invasion. It's the poor people who suffer.

I agree & especially with the 2nd line about people/citizens with no choice who suffer most.

But about the 1st line there are many such comparisons. Which I am in no way saying is right either

But when they do this so called "stealth invasion" type deals what it is basically is sending in unmarked troops or

contractors & supplying weapons to the side they are supporting/hoping to overthrow an existing government.

Russia & the US have equally dirty hands in that regard. Probably as you said before regarding media....

There they probably call the side they are arming/supporting freedom fighters & we call them terrorist

Same same in reverse when USA does the same

At the end of the day it all really sucks & unfortunately no end in sight worldwide

to this type of meddling etc.

We almost need/would welcome a major attack on the earth by some aliens...At least then we

would see each other as human allies & likely be working together.

But we are all obviously not evolved enough. Perhaps someday after it is all nearly? destroyed what is left

will try something new?

Edited December 28, 2014 by mania

[lovetotravel]

Agreed. But again, a huge difference between sending in your own troops (marked or not) versus providing support for a country's "freedom fighters". Like Russia does for Syria and many other countries. As does many of the major world powers.

Many times, external support for these freedom fighters has flopped! LOL

[Scott]

The topic is about the Ruble, the military situation has been discussed on numerous other threads. I am sure if you search you can find them.

[F430murci]

We will never say "yes, Sir" to US or someone else even 1 dollar would be 1000 Rub. So you can dream here of everything but most of us think that problem is in anglo-suxons world which continues to drink our blood)))

I said this long ago on here when Pub and others were touting Obama and his glorious sanctions. I said Obama is a short sighted idiot trying to save face on a personal level because Putin has dogged him every step of the way. I said stop with the sanctions because it only hurts innocent Russians and USA long term. Putin will never blink and will go isolationist before be caves to someone like Obama. Obama is just stupid to see it or, worse, he is caught up more in pride to care who he harms which is somewhat consistent with his domestic policies of late.

I usually like your posts and often click "like." But this one I don't understand.

Obama doesn't have the power to do this. The Saudis once lost a lot of their customers when they drove the price of oil too high. Now in a world awash in oil they aren't about to do that again and so they are supplying.

The US is awash in oil with record supplies on hand and is selling it. Canada, Argentina, other ME countries and Russia all have either some or a lot of dependence on oil money and are selling all they can.

There is a worldwide oil glut. Prices have dropped. The US suppliers are private and aren't under the control of the government. There's a rush to obtain and keep customers, and for some countries a desperate need to support economies and people.

When this first started I thought the US was behind it because of The Ukraine and Syria. But it's not true. There's simply a worldwide oil glut and prices are cheap from competition.

PS I can't stand Obama and am not apologizing for him. He just doesn't control oil or oil markets.

No time to go deep into it now, but I was most outspoken regarding the latest round of sanctions when Russia was already crippled and upon hearing from family and friends how they are struggling.

Regarding oil, I must be clairvoyant then. Back in May on here I said US and Saudi would drive prices down and said exactly how they would do it. I was only wrong in how far they would drive prices down, but they had to go further than expected because Putin's depreciation if the Ruble initially kept up with decline in price.

US also continues to increase production despite the over supply. A couple of weeks ago, I believe December 19, everyone expected US to decrease production due to supply exceeding demand and dropping prices, but analyst were wrong. US again increased production by some like 40,000 barrels per day. That last increase and last round of sanctions around same time sent the Ruble tumbling. More than just a coincidence and I am not clairvoyant.

[Publicus]

We will never say "yes, Sir" to US or someone else even 1 dollar would be 1000 Rub. So you can dream here of everything but most of us think that problem is in anglo-suxons world which continues to drink our blood)))

You are of course referring to the Anglophone world which is to say the US, Canada, UK and its extensions in Australia/NZ -- to include Nato and also the EU which anyway overlap and where in all places English and the USD$ constitute a common denominator.

Which means you were screwed to begin with, you're screwed now, and you're screwed going forward (or sideways as the case may be). We're talking rubles, dollars, Brics, yuan, eruos, yen, SDRs, oil, natural gas -- and the whole shebang.

Specifically, Russia is in the mess it's in and will continue to be in indefinitely because it will not accept liberal democracy or the rule of law in Russia and in its post-Soviet space, as everyone is witnessing most stubbornly in Ukraine but broadly speaking.

The Anglophone world order does not accept Russia as the Eurasian hegemon, which is to say there necessarily is a battle between Russia versus Nato/EU over which is going to dominate in Eurasia but also in the vital geostrategic area of Central Asia. The roads from Central Asia go out in every strategic direction, to Europe, to the Middle East and the Med, to Iran, India, Asean, Taiwan, the CCP-PRChina, the two Koreas, Japan, Far East Russia back across to Eurasia Russia and Nato again.

Now as I learned it, Russia and Russians since Peter the Great or so have increasingly looked down on China as backward culturally, technologically, and as an empire in decay, yet both the Russian elites and the people have more recently found they have more in common with the PRChina than with the United States and Nato/EU.

Russia is going in the wrong direction, and I mean for Russia, not for Nato or the EU. Yes, Germany is at the "heart of Europe" and is integrated economically and in trade with Russia and China, but then so is the US and neither is leaving the Anglophone world order anytime soon....or ever.

The Nato (US) missile shield when completed will neutralize Russia's huge nuclear arsenal and also preclude the nuclear weapons of China and, if necessary, Iran or anyone else.

It is best for Russia to enter a period of self-imposed isolation as the direct consequence of its shellacking during the past six months and indefinitely going forward. Russia in isolation will cede the Eurasia-Central Asia corridor to the Anglophone world for the indefinite future. It would also offer Russians a necessary period of reflection, introspection, reassessment, which one might expect could somewhat smooth that edge you guys over there have.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Publicus

[Scott]

An off-topic post removed. The thread is about the ruble and the dollar.

[Publicus]

We will never say "yes, Sir" to US or someone else even 1 dollar would be 1000 Rub. So you can dream here of everything but most of us think that problem is in anglo-suxons world which continues to drink our blood)))

You are of course referring to the Anglophone world which is to say the US, Canada, UK and its extensions in Australia/NZ -- to include Nato and also the EU which anyway overlap and where in all places English and the USD$ constitute a common denominator.

Which means you were screwed to begin with, you're screwed now, and you're screwed going forward (or sideways as the case may be). We're talking rubles, dollars, Brics, yuan, eruos, yen, SDRs, oil, natural gas -- and the whole shebang.

Specifically, Russia is in the mess it's in and will continue to be in indefinitely because it will not accept liberal democracy or the rule of law in Russia and in its post-Soviet space, as everyone is witnessing most stubbornly in Ukraine but broadly speaking.

The Anglophone world order does not accept Russia as the Eurasian hegemon, which is to say there necessarily is a battle between Russia versus Nato/EU over which is going to dominate in Eurasia but also in the vital geostrategic area of Central Asia. The roads from Central Asia go out in every strategic direction, to Europe, to the Middle East and the Med, to Iran, India, Asean, Taiwan, the CCP-PRChina, the two Koreas, Japan, Far East Russia back across to Eurasia Russia and Nato again.

Now as I learned it, Russia and Russians since Peter the Great or so have increasingly looked down on China as backward culturally, technologically, and as an empire in decay, yet both the Russian elites and the people have more recently found they have more in common with the PRChina than with the United States and Nato/EU.

Russia is going in the wrong direction, and I mean for Russia, not for Nato or the EU. Yes, Germany is at the "heart of Europe" and is integrated economically and in trade with Russia and China, but then so is the US and neither is leaving the Anglophone world order anytime soon....or ever.

The Nato (US) missile shield when completed will neutralize Russia's huge nuclear arsenal and also preclude the nuclear weapons of China and, if necessary, Iran or anyone else.

It is best for Russia to enter a period of self-imposed isolation as the direct consequence of its shellacking during the past six months and indefinitely going forward. Russia in isolation will cede the Eurasia-Central Asia corridor to the Anglophone world for the indefinite future. It would also offer Russians a necessary period of reflection, introspection, reassessment, which one might expect could somewhat smooth that edge you guys over there have.

" it will not accept liberal democracy or the rule of law in Russia "

Was the Libyan war legal? Was Bin Laden’s killing legal? Is it legal for the President of the United States to target an American citizen for assassination?

Attempts to deflect flail and fail.

The United States is successful, prosperous, a democracy, because it has the rule of law. The main challenge it has in this respect is to keep the laws and their application current and to identify new areas of law.

Russia is now virtually alone in the world because it and its Brics cronies have only the rule of rulers which is unsustainable.

Minor currency swap agreements with a tiny handful of nervous governments don't mean anything. With sanctions limiting the oil industry technology Russia needs, it is facing a significant reduction of output and thus exports of energy to contracted countries such as the PRChina, to name one suddenly nervous government.

The League of Nations failed because in large part the rule of law was not established enough or respected widely. Today it is a very different world. The rule of law through treaties has been successful, as in Nato and the Treaty of Rome that led to the EU, as examples.

Other organizations look more like a reincarnation of the long defunct League.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Publicus

[boomerangutang]

What does the caption say, on the poster above? Putin on the Ritz?

[Naam]

The United States is successful, prosperous...

and never mind the slightly less prosperous

[Publicus]

Let us know which explodes first, the clock or the heads that thought this up or that think it is something ingenious.

[Scott]

Off-topic reported post removed.

[thailiketoo]

The United States is successful, prosperous...

and never mind the slightly less prosperous

The topic is bad news for the ruble could spell disaster for the dollar and you post a picture of the USA debt clock. What does that aside from the usual USA bash, have to do with the topic? Why would a falling ruble cause the USA debt to increase?

[Naam]

Let us know which explodes first, the clock or the heads that thought this up or that think it is something ingenious.

let's be rational. the facts exist and can't be denied. the usual window dressing (ratio debt/gdp) is for eggheads to preach and ignorants to accept. it goes of course without saying that comparing the U.S. economy with that of Russia is a futile exercise because Russia's economy depends mainly on its exports of commodities whereas the U.S. economy is mainly driven by domestic consumption.

we all know how commodities, especially energy, fared recently. farfetched and naïve is in my [not so] humble view that the Dollar will suffer from the teenie weeny peanuts $25 billion monetary swap between Russia and China. that's nothing but pocket money and the equivalent what a couple of U.S. banks pay as fine to the SEC or whatever government authority.

that China can use its huge reserves to assist Russia with loans is another fairy tale because loans come with interest and have to be serviced with revenue. that begs for the question "where is Russia's revenue to do that?" surely not with the present volume of exports to China.

[Naam]

The United States is successful, prosperous...

and never mind the slightly less prosperous

The topic is bad news for the ruble could spell disaster for the dollar and you post a picture of the USA debt clock. What does that aside from the usual USA bash, have to do with the topic? Why would a falling ruble cause the USA debt to increase?

please read kind Sir! as mentioned above i posted the picture in response to

The United States is successful, prosperous...

a country that can only service its debt by issuing new debt can neither be called successful nor prosperous.

as to your irrelvant question "why would a falling Ruble cause the U.S. debt increase?" i have no answer except "try to read and comprehend what in reference to what was said and then blame the Nation's journalist not me."

i hope that is not too much to ask.

[SiSePuede419]

Bad news? <deleted>.

"Investors snapped up dollars, pushing the greenback to its highest level against major currencies since September 2003"

5555

[craigt3365]

A few off topic posts have been removed. Please stick to the topic.

[farang000999]

The US debt problems are vastly overstated. The debt ratio has already begun falling. The main issues are entitlements and healthcare and both of those are easily fixed. It is kind of silly to think that a bunch of people on Youtube know more than all the people who are buying those bonds at very low interest rates.

But, I know... Weinmar and Zimbamwe... any day now.

Edited January 4, 2015 by farang000999

[Asiantravel]

The US debt problems are vastly overstated. The debt ratio has already begun falling. The main issues are entitlements and healthcare and both of those are easily fixed. It is kind of silly to think that a bunch of people on Youtube know more than all the people who are buying those bonds at very low interest rates.

But, I know... Weinmar and Zimbamwe... any day now.

" The US debt problems are vastly overstated. "

it's easy to say that but Total US Unfunded Liabilities in this clock seems pretty astonishing

http://usadebtclock.com/

[lovetotravel]

The US debt problems are vastly overstated. The debt ratio has already begun falling. The main issues are entitlements and healthcare and both of those are easily fixed. It is kind of silly to think that a bunch of people on Youtube know more than all the people who are buying those bonds at very low interest rates.

But, I know... Weinmar and Zimbamwe... any day now.

" The US debt problems are vastly overstated. "

it's easy to say that but Total US Unfunded Liabilities in this clock seems pretty astonishing

http://usadebtclock.com/

You've got to keep this in perspective. The US economy looks pretty good right now. Debt and all. You need to analyze this from multiple perspectives. Not just the debt clock. The reverse is perhaps Russia. Little debt, but the future doesn't look so good. It's not just one indicator that matters.

[Publicus]

The US debt problems are vastly overstated. The debt ratio has already begun falling. The main issues are entitlements and healthcare and both of those are easily fixed. It is kind of silly to think that a bunch of people on Youtube know more than all the people who are buying those bonds at very low interest rates.

But, I know... Weinmar and Zimbamwe... any day now.

" The US debt problems are vastly overstated. "

it's easy to say that but Total US Unfunded Liabilities in this clock seems pretty astonishing

http://usadebtclock.com/

Either one accepts money or rejects it in favor of gold.

There are still a number of old time people who like that old time religion called gold.

The goldbugs are free to buy all the gold they can to protect themselves against whatever monsters they see skulking or lurking about out there.

In the meantime, however, the goldbugs need to respect the normal rest of the world, which are the 90% of us.

The world is based in money, not gold. A gold standard is unrealistic and in practical terms undoable unless the world agrees to price the USD$ at several thousand units to 1 oz of gold, and even that would be problematical to the global economy and financial systems.

So get and keep your gold and then keep to yourself about it.

.

[mania]

Either one accepts money or rejects it in favor of gold.

In the meantime, however, the goldbugs need to respect the normal rest of the world, which are the 90% of us.

I think that is a bit simplistic to compare

unbridled spending of what you do not have with it being either that or you must be a gold bug.

There are many citizens that are not gold bugs but do see their country's unbridled spending

of what they do not have as problematic

I do not think as you say 90% of the citizens feel it is ok for politicians to basically use a charge card

in their name for which they & their grandchildren will be given the bill in increased taxation.

Especially in question is what they have been charging on that card for the last 7 years or so.

It is simplistic to say it is a gold vs USD argument as it is not.

It is a living at least within reach of our means question. The same basic principles we preach to our kids & our government asks of us.

It is keeping debt serviceable & not letting it to a point where all the income can no longer

even service the interest payments on the debt let alone scratch the surface of repaying it.

Not saying repaying it fully was ever the goal either.

But some folks seem to think every time they double the existing money supply/create more debt... that is somehow a good thing?

It is more than the sheer debt that is a problem here & it is not as simple as claiming only gold bugs disagree with it.

Many of us have no interest in gold but do have an interest in our future...our children & grandchildren futures.

Edited January 6, 2015 by mania

[Publicus]

Probably 20% want some kind of gold standard to replace the long running fiat currency system, Russia being the most prominent since Putin openly announced for it in 2009.

Putin's 2009 public announcement for a gold standard (of some undetermined kind) put him out front among national leaders whose names have been thrown about by the goldbugs and the Austrian school of Mad Max economics, the Brics principally. The Brics however continue to need the USD and have no plan of a common currency or a gold based currency. Some say central banks buying more gold is evidence of a coming gold standard but it is not. (Would the Fed be keeping gold down to benefit other governments?)

Putin has in fact believed he could muscle the ruble into position as a major regional then global currency.The reality remains however that Russia is connected to the euro which is alongside the USD while another Brics government, China, is directly and deeply intertwined with the USD.

The 80% or the rest of us argue within the circle of monetarism as liberals or conservatives. We speak in terms of deficit, debt, quantitative easing and money supply, interest rates and the like. Conservatives talk of debt and taxing our children and grandchildren. Liberals talk of the quality of life presently and going forward in to a secure future.

So the vast majority of humanity deal in fiat currencies, and reference the USD as a measure of wealth. Liberals and conservatives everywhere continue to argue over what constitutes a balance sheet and the scope of the balance sheet, to include off the books accounts.

Advanced and developed economies for instance see $5 Trillion of mutual wealth to be created by conducting infrastructure projects in emerging economies between now and 2020, while conservatives see only a wild increase of the money supply, yet more debt, a greater impending doom.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Publicus