China offers huge sums

[tbthailand]

which general is minister of the interior?

he's a lucky man...

[tonbridgebrit]

I think the Thais will like being a province of China, although they will tell themselves that they are independent.

I don't think you're far wrong.

What we are not told is what China expects in return.

No complaints action when damming the upper Mekong results in the lower Mekong drying up.

Easing of regulations to allow Chinese companies entry into Thailand, employing only Chinese staff, and out-competing Thai companies.

Removal of tariffs on Chinese imports.

99 year leases on swathes of arable land for Chines agri business to operate as an extension of the Chinese production effort.

Logging and mining concessions for Chinese companies to rape the land.

The General is doing a great job trying to straighten the country out, but as an interim PM, he should not be dabbling in very long term cross border agreements. Leave that to an elected and economically/diplomatically experienced professional. There should be no rush to sign up to anything with any country, especially China.

We will never know how much China has spent in gratuities to get this deal.

+1000 - Unfortunately the currently stock of buffoons in Canberra rushed off in a hurry to stitch up a free trade deal with China in order to shore up their falling political capital. The result, given the Chinese saw them coming from miles away, was a deal that effectively sells out our industry, labour and property in return for a few discounts on food and agriculture tariffs. So now the Chinese can buy Australian properties and entities no questions asked up to a billion dollars and staff them with Chinese labour. Meanwhile we still can't even own so much as grain of sand if we step foot in China. Hard bargains our guys drive. At least Thailand might get some project capital in return.

I think people should accept that Australia has enjoyed a two-decades economic boom based on exports of raw materials to China. GNP per person in Australia would not be as high if China was not importing Australia's raw materials. Australia's new wealth can be seen in expensive house prices across most of the country, and other things too.

Maybe Australia should be more grateful to China for buying so much of Australia's exports. If it was America and Europe that was booming, and if it was America and Europe who were importing vast amounts of raw materials from Australia, well, would Australians feel so threatened by the foreign invasion ?

[gemini81]

They'll live to regret being a debt slave and letting the gates open to welcome more and more influential presence of China.

[maidee]

i bet every one of them, got their weight in gold

as a thank you note

[pcliff069]

More Chinese goods flocked into THL

Love the flocked goods Edited December 23, 2014 by pcliff069

[Starre]

I think the Thais will like being a province of China, although they will tell themselves that they are independent.

I don't think you're far wrong.

What we are not told is what China expects in return.

No complaints action when damming the upper Mekong results in the lower Mekong drying up.

Easing of regulations to allow Chinese companies entry into Thailand, employing only Chinese staff, and out-competing Thai companies.

Removal of tariffs on Chinese imports.

99 year leases on swathes of arable land for Chines agri business to operate as an extension of the Chinese production effort.

Logging and mining concessions for Chinese companies to rape the land.

The General is doing a great job trying to straighten the country out, but as an interim PM, he should not be dabbling in very long term cross border agreements. Leave that to an elected and economically/diplomatically experienced professional. There should be no rush to sign up to anything with any country, especially China.

We will never know how much China has spent in gratuities to get this deal.

+1000 - Unfortunately the currently stock of buffoons in Canberra rushed off in a hurry to stitch up a free trade deal with China in order to shore up their falling political capital. The result, given the Chinese saw them coming from miles away, was a deal that effectively sells out our industry, labour and property in return for a few discounts on food and agriculture tariffs. So now the Chinese can buy Australian properties and entities no questions asked up to a billion dollars and staff them with Chinese labour. Meanwhile we still can't even own so much as grain of sand if we step foot in China. Hard bargains our guys drive. At least Thailand might get some project capital in return.

I think people should accept that Australia has enjoyed a two-decades economic boom based on exports of raw materials to China. GNP per person in Australia would not be as high if China was not importing Australia's raw materials. Australia's new wealth can be seen in expensive house prices across most of the country, and other things too.

Maybe Australia should be more grateful to China for buying so much of Australia's exports. If it was America and Europe that was booming, and if it was America and Europe who were importing vast amounts of raw materials from Australia, well, would Australians feel so threatened by the foreign invasion ?

@ tonbridgebrit, I think your post shows a very limited understanding of what's happening in Australia these days and the mentality & double standards of the Chinese.

Firstly the mining boom has only benefited a small proportion of Australian citizens. Large multinational companies with offshore tax bases and a few private entrepreneurs have been the main benefactors. In fact the Australian taxpayer subsidises infrastructure such as roads, rail and fuel to these mining operations. In return, the mining industry only employs a very small percentage of workers in the economy. Secondly, the Chinese are not just a bunch of nice fellas who are doing us poor ol' Aussies a favour by buying our natural resources. It is all business. They need our resources to keep fueling their own economy and will buy them from any continent that has them such as Africa and South America. The Chinese have in the past unsuccessfully attempted to purchase outright mineral resources companies in order to bypass any Australian interference whatsoever. Really we are just a nuisance to them hence they are investing large amounts of capital to buy, staff and control resource rich nations in Africa albeit in politically unstable areas. Unless we give into their ownership demands, they have made it clear our days are numbered. Hence our Government sold out to them in the recent so called "Free Trade Agreement".

As far as our booming house prices are concerned, try turning up at an auction in Sydney and Melbourne these days. The auctions are now conducted principally in mandarin due to 90%+ of the buyers being Chinese. If you think the average Australian couple likes having to outbid these guys and committing 80% of their salary to paying back a mortgage for a standard 3 bedroom house in the suburbs, think again. We now have a bubble the Government has no idea how to slowly deflate as well as economy virtually bereft of any large scale manufacturing or other export opportunities plus falling domestic confidence. A hard landing as early as 2015 awaits. Thanks to successive short sighted Governments of both mainstream parties, their posturing to the Chinese and ill spent finances, we will be left trying to fill giant holes in the ground whilst the Chinese look out over Sydney Harbour from their multi million dollar residences. I don't care which race is putting us in that position, it is not a good position to be in for the future of this country. The reality is it just happens to be the Chinese in conjunction with our spineless, visionless, weasel worded Government.

For sale: 1 x Bridge with views of Circular Key and Opera House. China buyers most welcome.

[tonbridgebrit]

Hello Starre. I do find your views interesting.

Okay, surely, it would have been madness if Australia had of said "look China, we don't actually want to export lots of our iron and other naural resources to you" two decades ago ??
On the issue of how the mining industry has benefitted only a small percentage of Australians, well, I can see your point. Surely, it is the job of the Australian government to set up tax rules which will force the big conglomerates to pay tax in full ? If need be, maybe 'nationalise' certain mining groups, most of the money will then go to the Australian government, and not into the pockets of private investors. Yes, some or a lot of the investors are not actually Australian people.
About Chinese companies buying out assets, and bypassing Australian government rules, again, it's the Australian government's job to act in the interests of Australia. If the Australian government is spineless, well, that's not China's fault, is it ?

Yes, I have sympathy for young couples who simply can't afford to buy a house. But how about this ? The government should have been collecting generous taxes and royalties from the mining companies, and using some of the money to build more public housing. The houses can then be rented out or sold to Australians only, at a below market price. At the same time, allow property developers to build private properties and sell them at auction to whatever Chinese/foreign bidders. That way, Australia rakes in cash (a couple from China are about to inject a million dollars into Australia via the purchase of that apartment) from abroad. And at the same time, Australians without a house can buy a governbment built one at a generously discounted price.

At the end of the day, I agree that Australia's government should be doing more to benefit more Australians from the export of raw materials. Australia is a democracy, a working democracy. It's the job of voters in Australia to vote in a government that they want.

[LawrenceChee]

I agree with the points above

China comes into any country to buy up resources they need for their country's growth and it's fair trade . A price is decided and a sale is made

It's up to every country doing business deals with the Chinese to set up the right bodies / tax collections to ensure the money brought in benefits its citizens in forms of any projects you want that is best for your country

Clearly that is the country's job and not China's ....hating China is almost funny ...are we saying now a communist government is doing better job than a democratic one ?

I was having lunch at a cafe in Chiangmai and it's a deserted area only locals know

Guess who I met ?

2 Chinese PRC mothers with their 2 daughters ...I started talking to them and they were here in July last year and made 3 trips and decided this was a stress free place to have their children study and enrolled them this term in Chiangmai

So in a span of their trips , they bought a condo in Serene Lake which is a very nice development and enrolled their kids into an international school - America Pacific International

Their kids are 5 & 4 years old and having spent almost 4 months in school , they have mastered and speak good american accented English and passable Thai to communicate with the waitress to order food for their mums and of course they speak their own mother tongue Mandarin

This is the generation that will be benefiting from the trade deals and making the future business deals in ASEAN ...

[bitcoinbob]

the reason china is offering all this good will remember these swap agreements go both ways http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2014/12/chinese-banks-hemorrhaging-deposits-1st.html

[Starre]

@tonbridgebrit

"Hello Starre. I do find your views interesting.

Okay, surely, it would have been madness if Australia had of said "look China, we don't actually want to export lots of our iron and other naural resources to you" two decades ago ??
On the issue of how the mining industry has benefitted only a small percentage of Australians, well, I can see your point. Surely, it is the job of the Australian government to set up tax rules which will force the big conglomerates to pay tax in full ? If need be, maybe 'nationalise' certain mining groups, most of the money will then go to the Australian government, and not into the pockets of private investors. Yes, some or a lot of the investors are not actually Australian people.
About Chinese companies buying out assets, and bypassing Australian government rules, again, it's the Australian government's job to act in the interests of Australia. If the Australian government is spineless, well, that's not China's fault, is it ?

Yes, I have sympathy for young couples who simply can't afford to buy a house. But how about this ? The government should have been collecting generous taxes and royalties from the mining companies, and using some of the money to build more public housing. The houses can then be rented out or sold to Australians only, at a below market price. At the same time, allow property developers to build private properties and sell them at auction to whatever Chinese/foreign bidders. That way, Australia rakes in cash (a couple from China are about to inject a million dollars into Australia via the purchase of that apartment) from abroad. And at the same time, Australians without a house can buy a governbment built one at a generously discounted price.

At the end of the day, I agree that Australia's government should be doing more to benefit more Australians from the export of raw materials. Australia is a democracy, a working democracy. It's the job of voters in Australia to vote in a government that they want."

Yes, I totally agree with you that successive Australian Governments of both colours have effectively sold out the future of the Australian public in favour of big mining concerns and a handful wealthy private investors. That is the main problem not who the end customer for our resources is. I like your thinking and I'd probably vote for you if you stood in an election on that platform but unfortunately your comments above are a bit Utopian and would be decried socialist by the current Government and main stream media. There's absolutely no way the Government or their opposition would ever get anything like that up into policy. In fact the previous Rudd Government proposed an additional "Super profits" tax to be implemented on large scale mining corporations and used for future funding of infrastructure and public projects. Guess what happened? The mining concerns together with right wing media held such a protracted media campaign against the Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, who had only been elected in a landslide win less than 12 months previous, that left wing forces within his own party rolled him and then let the mining companies virtually write the additional tax legislation themselves. Of course it was a farce and not 1 cent was raised before the current Government was elected on a platform of demonising refugees and the repealing of the mining tax & additional taxation on high emissions polluters.

When huge sums of money like this are at stake, democracy does not get a look in. It really doesn't matter who the public vote for as was the case with Kevin Rudd. Love him or hate him, democracy was subverted and someone the public didn't even vote for was installed in his place. Political deals are done and usually they are not for the benefit of the general public. I imagine the same thing will happen to Thailand's agricultural industries when a super power such as China gets them in their sights. The Chinese have already started buying up large tracts of prime farming land in Australia and the Government has made some token promise to track and register these purchases. Of course we'll know all the information by the time it's too late and we will have sold the cows, the processing plants and the farm to China lock, stock and barrel.

The thing with China is it's overall volume and hunger combined with it's compete disregard for any sustainability measures. It's a matter of just use up what's there and then move onto the next mark. I have spent a lot of time travelling from one end of it to the other and doing business there over the last 25 years and I think I have a fair barometer of their society. I noted early on as they opened up their economy to the world, the complete and utter destruction of their own environment and what was going to become their need to infiltrate other countries by stealth and politics. Just buying what they need from other countries was not going to be enough - they have to own it and make it Chinese. And they are patient. What they are offering Thailand in the form of some railways and infrastructure is just the beginning. With Thai governments of any persuasion in the past being susceptible to some coin being tossed on the table and considering what's happening in Australia, the future will be interesting now Thailand is obviously on China's radar.

[tonbridgebrit]

@tonbridgebrit

"Hello Starre. I do find your views interesting.

Okay, surely, it would have been madness if Australia had of said "look China, we don't actually want to export lots of our iron and other naural resources to you" two decades ago ??

On the issue of how the mining industry has benefitted only a small percentage of Australians, well, I can see your point. Surely, it is the job of the Australian government to set up tax rules which will force the big conglomerates to pay tax in full ? If need be, maybe 'nationalise' certain mining groups, most of the money will then go to the Australian government, and not into the pockets of private investors. Yes, some or a lot of the investors are not actually Australian people.

About Chinese companies buying out assets, and bypassing Australian government rules, again, it's the Australian government's job to act in the interests of Australia. If the Australian government is spineless, well, that's not China's fault, is it ?

Yes, I have sympathy for young couples who simply can't afford to buy a house. But how about this ? The government should have been collecting generous taxes and royalties from the mining companies, and using some of the money to build more public housing. The houses can then be rented out or sold to Australians only, at a below market price. At the same time, allow property developers to build private properties and sell them at auction to whatever Chinese/foreign bidders. That way, Australia rakes in cash (a couple from China are about to inject a million dollars into Australia via the purchase of that apartment) from abroad. And at the same time, Australians without a house can buy a governbment built one at a generously discounted price.

At the end of the day, I agree that Australia's government should be doing more to benefit more Australians from the export of raw materials. Australia is a democracy, a working democracy. It's the job of voters in Australia to vote in a government that they want."

Yes, I totally agree with you that successive Australian Governments of both colours have effectively sold out the future of the Australian public in favour of big mining concerns and a handful wealthy private investors. That is the main problem not who the end customer for our resources is. I like your thinking and I'd probably vote for you if you stood in an election on that platform but unfortunately your comments above are a bit Utopian and would be decried socialist by the current Government and main stream media. There's absolutely no way the Government or their opposition would ever get anything like that up into policy. In fact the previous Rudd Government proposed an additional "Super profits" tax to be implemented on large scale mining corporations and used for future funding of infrastructure and public projects. Guess what happened? The mining concerns together with right wing media held such a protracted media campaign against the Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, who had only been elected in a landslide win less than 12 months previous, that left wing forces within his own party rolled him and then let the mining companies virtually write the additional tax legislation themselves. Of course it was a farce and not 1 cent was raised before the current Government was elected on a platform of demonising refugees and the repealing of the mining tax & additional taxation on high emissions polluters.

When huge sums of money like this are at stake, democracy does not get a look in. It really doesn't matter who the public vote for as was the case with Kevin Rudd. Love him or hate him, democracy was subverted and someone the public didn't even vote for was installed in his place. Political deals are done and usually they are not for the benefit of the general public. I imagine the same thing will happen to Thailand's agricultural industries when a super power such as China gets them in their sights. The Chinese have already started buying up large tracts of prime farming land in Australia and the Government has made some token promise to track and register these purchases. Of course we'll know all the information by the time it's too late and we will have sold the cows, the processing plants and the farm to China lock, stock and barrel.

The thing with China is it's overall volume and hunger combined with it's compete disregard for any sustainability measures. It's a matter of just use up what's there and then move onto the next mark. I have spent a lot of time travelling from one end of it to the other and doing business there over the last 25 years and I think I have a fair barometer of their society. I noted early on as they opened up their economy to the world, the complete and utter destruction of their own environment and what was going to become their need to infiltrate other countries by stealth and politics. Just buying what they need from other countries was not going to be enough - they have to own it and make it Chinese. And they are patient. What they are offering Thailand in the form of some railways and infrastructure is just the beginning. With Thai governments of any persuasion in the past being susceptible to some coin being tossed on the table and considering what's happening in Australia, the future will be interesting now Thailand is obviously on China's radar.

China's disregard and utter destruction of the environment. Who on earth is going to argue against that comment ? Nobody !

And it's not good enough either to say "America and Europe has already done a bit of damage, it's okay for China to now increase that damage" !! But still, ALL nations are selfish. They al want to consume natural resources, but they don't actually like it when other people are doing it !!

[thesetat2013]

I believe the phrase "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" should be here.

Thailand simply has NO idea what will come of this in the future.

China doesn't just offer so much with nothing asked for/ demanded in return.

[tonbridgebrit]

I believe the phrase "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" should be here.

Thailand simply has NO idea what will come of this in the future.

China doesn't just offer so much with nothing asked for/ demanded in return.

I think the Thais already know that. They've had some experiance when dealing with the French colonists in Indo-China, and also dealing with the Americans. Practice makes perfect, Thailand does actually know what it's doing. China is probably offerring a better deal than what America is offerring. That's why the Thais are choosing China.

[canuckamuck]

I believe the phrase "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" should be here.

Thailand simply has NO idea what will come of this in the future.

China doesn't just offer so much with nothing asked for/ demanded in return.

I think the Thais already know that. They've had some experiance when dealing with the French colonists in Indo-China, and also dealing with the Americans. Practice makes perfect, Thailand does actually know what it's doing. China is probably offerring a better deal than what America is offerring. That's why the Thais are choosing China.

That logic doesn't apply as there are new piggies at the trough. And they're here for a good time, not a long time.

Edited January 9, 2015 by canuckamuck