Puting It In The Kid's Name.

[Chang_paarp]

As one of the bitter and twisted, I have no problem looking after the kids, but I am bu@gered if I will do something to keep the Ex in the manner to which she would like to be accustomed. Where I am now this means not owning anything.

In LOS, I understand there are no trust laws, so when can property be put in the kid's name?

Can it be made safe from averous relatives?

A company with the kids as the primary share holders?

How old do the kids have to be to do this?

At this point a 30 lease would make sense.

[udon]

Sorry to read the above, are you still in WA?

[Chang_paarp]

Yes I am in WA still.

I am looking foreward. In the event I remarry or have a strong relationship. I am of the school that marriage does not last forever, and once the relaionship breaks down the chances are that things will get ugly. (Bitter experience) I accept that these things happen and like to plan early.

Given all the traffic about not using nominees and never trusting the wife, I thought I would ask about a way of controlling land and assets that could be legal.

Maybe I should clarify my idea.

Rather than use the wife or nominees, put the shares or assets in the names of the kids. The idea is to do the right thing by the kids so they get the assets in the long run. In the mean while look after the assets and try to build them.

I would rather ask a question and look a fool than not ask it and remove any doubt.

[Mr Jones]

the only thing I can suggest is find a decent solicitor

les

[number6]

the only thing I can suggest is find a decent solicitor

les

i agree I am considering putting one of our properties in our kids name - its a condo in my name - anyway i have good reasons for thinking this is a good idea for us - i have not double checked but my lawer says no problem but warned me it could not be osld until our child reached 20. The other option is one im using at moment - my property here in Thailand in my will (thai will all legal) is at use of my wife for her life but she cant sell it or borrow on it it then goes to our kid or kids - her property (shes Thai has 2 houses and other assets/investments) in her will says same but i have use of it and income for life then it goes to kids

but get a good layer its complicated and dont worry about spending on layer get best (mine in BKK is thai and charges $ 150 ph but hes good very good or at least thats what he tells me ) joke last bit he is good

[TizMe]

Only problem with "her" will, is that she can change it at any time, with or without your knowledge.

[Khun Jean]

And who is going to stop you or her to sell everything and leave the kids with nothing?

Putting it in the kids name and hope that you are still around when they are old enough is the only way. So stick around!

[number6]

And who is going to stop you or her to sell everything and leave the kids with nothing?

Putting it in the kids name and hope that you are still around when they are old enough is the only way. So stick around!

nothing at all - am i the only silly forang here who actually trusts his wife - maybe difficult for u hard nosed guys whove been done and done but my wife actually loves our kid and so do i - as i said she cant sell if i pop it and would not want to - sure i could sell before, she could sell what she has before , we could change opur wills without other knowing - for xxxxxxxx sake if your that paranoid and really believe all Thai wimen are sceming little xxxxxxxxxxxx then dont get married.

the reason is its then absolutely guarenteed at least my bitsi n end goes to kids even if by some chance by wife goes loopy, some guy cons her or whatever

sorry your all correct shes only going to do me - find an honest one

[Sunbelt Asia]

As one of the bitter and twisted, I have no problem looking after the kids, but I am bu@gered if I will do something to keep the Ex in the manner to which she would like to be accustomed. Where I am now this means not owning anything.

In LOS, I understand there are no trust laws, so when can property be put in the kid's name?

Can it be made safe from averous relatives?

A company with the kids as the primary share holders?

How old do the kids have to be to do this?

At this point a 30 lease would make sense.

Any foreigner's minor having Thai nationality may purchase or accept land as a gift with no consideration and register the ownership of such land.

However, as a minor under 20 years old( Thailand has talked about making a minor up to 18 years but now it still is 20 years old), he or she will be restricted as to what may be done with the land. If he/she wants to make any registered contractual action over the land, such as selling or leasing it, you as her guardian will need a court order approving such a transaction, and that court order will be granted only if your son/daughter is considered by the court to be the clear beneficiary of the transaction. Any funds obtained would have to be held in trust.

If you are sure that you or your son/daughter will not want to sell the land until he/she is 20 years old, then registering it in their name is fine.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[fxm88]

... Any funds obtained would have to be held in trust.

What kind of trust? (I thought Thailand didn't have trusts.)

[Khun Jean]

And who is going to stop you or her to sell everything and leave the kids with nothing?

Putting it in the kids name and hope that you are still around when they are old enough is the only way. So stick around!

nothing at all - am i the only silly forang here who actually trusts his wife - maybe difficult for u hard nosed guys whove been done and done but my wife actually loves our kid and so do i - as i said she cant sell if i pop it and would not want to - sure i could sell before, she could sell what she has before , we could change opur wills without other knowing - for xxxxxxxx sake if your that paranoid and really believe all Thai wimen are sceming little xxxxxxxxxxxx then dont get married.

the reason is its then absolutely guarenteed at least my bitsi n end goes to kids even if by some chance by wife goes loopy, some guy cons her or whatever

sorry your all correct shes only going to do me - find an honest one

Easy easy. Take a deep breath and read it again.

In the first line i said "YOU OR HER". You are reading it with an already negative attitude. No Thai wife bashing here. I am married with children so i know the situation.

All i wanted to say is that if it is one of you that ends up 6 feet under and money is needed selling the properties is the easiest way. And possibly leaving the kids with nothing.

I assume your doing this (as i am) because you want your children to have some future and an easier live with already having some properties. Putting it in the kids name and making it impossible for them to sell it at an inexperienced/influential age is the best. Only there is no such thing in Thailand. To many ways around it.

If you want to secure anything for the kids it is much much easier to do it in a western country (a trust). Use the Thai properties but accept it can turn out a lot different than you intended.

[Sunbelt Asia]

... Any funds obtained would have to be held in trust.

What kind of trust? (I thought Thailand didn't have trusts.)

It is the government own trust account.

By the way, if you have a dispute with the landlord, you can deposit the monthly funds into this government account. They hold it for both parties till the court decides. This way you cannot be kicked out for non failure to pay rent.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Loom]

Land dept said my wife can put our 4 yr old Thai daughter's name on the title any time. I didn't get a chance to clarify if they were saying my daughter's name can go on the title in addition to my wife. Or if they were saying that the title could go in my daughter's name and her name alone. If something happened to both my wife and I, and our daughter survived us we wouldn't want ownership to go beyond her.

[thaigene2]

...as a minor under 20 years old [...] he or she will be restricted as to what may be done with the land. If he/she wants to make any registered contractual action over the land, such as selling or leasing it, you as her guardian will need a court order approving such a transaction, and that court order will be granted only if your son/daughter is considered by the court to be the clear beneficiary of the transaction. Any funds obtained would have to be held in trust.

If you are sure that you or your son/daughter will not want to sell the land until he/she is 20 years old, then registering it in their name is fine.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Really?? Funds held in trust? So you're saying the wife couldn't sell the property (as guardian for the kid) and run off to Ubon-whatever and spend the money? Are you sure? It's so easy to get people here to bend the rules..I just kind of doubt this..she could just say it's "in the child's best interest" to get access to the money immediately couldn't she? A court wouldn't refuse that would it?

[number6]

If you are sure that you or your son/daughter will not want to sell the land until he/she is 20 years old, then registering it in their name is fine.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Really?? Funds held in trust? So you're saying the wife couldn't sell the property (as guardian for the kid) and run off to Ubon-whatever and spend the money? Are you sure? It's so easy to get people here to bend the rules..I just kind of doubt this..she could just say it's "in the child's best interest" to get access to the money immediately couldn't she? A court wouldn't refuse that would it?

your right anything can happen but i think youll find thats illegal and dont believe everyone who says everything here is totally corrupt - a lot i mean a lot is. Then maybe my current method of giving my wife use and income of my condos etc for her life then it goes to our kid is better - who knows - but as ive said loads of times if you really believe your wife would not do best for her/your child then thats very sad. Real problem is to protect it best u can from others who may try to force her to sell or com men/wimen etc. I am still considering putting some of property directly into our childs name but for other reasons (tax etc)

[thaigene2]

number 6

No, don't get me wrong - I'm interested in your suggestion - and I want to know the outcome. I agree with you - I don't want to think the worst of my wife either. The difference is that what you and I may think is in the best interest of our kids and whether our wives would have similar views. Sure she (or they) would do what 'she thinks' is the best interest of our kids.

But what if my wife may think it's best to sell the home, move back to Ubon-wherever and send our kids to a school in sticksville, where they will learn absolutely nothing, drop out at Grade 9, and end up driving a taxi in Bangkok when they're 35? She may think selling and moving back to small village is best cause she will be near her family, they can use the money to build a bigger and better family home in sticksville.. But if it were me, I'd want her to use the money to send the kids to a better school. But not everyone - especially from a little village in Isaan is going to think that way. That's the issue..we want to protect our kids from ill-informed decisions where money is involved - money that can't be replaced down the road. Sell the house and she'll spend it - guaranteed. It'll be gone within a year..and everybody will be poor again. And the kids will be staring at a blackboard in a small village and repeating the same stuff over and over until they're brain-dead.

I'm on the same wavelength as you..I'm insterested to know about leaving the house in their name. But as others said, what happens if you and your wife want to sell and move? Can you?

[Loom]

That would seem to be the issue then. Put the property in the kid's name then they'd have to give it back for you or wife to control it again or be able to use sale proceeds. Giving it to kid in will is less secure but may offer more flexibility for you/wife. I'm still wondering on the question of joint ownership. A minor might have to agree to the sale or transfer, otherwise then there's the trust issue?

[Sunbelt Asia]

That would seem to be the issue then. Put the property in the kid's name then they'd have to give it back for you or wife to control it again or be able to use sale proceeds. Giving it to kid in will is less secure but may offer more flexibility for you/wife. I'm still wondering on the question of joint ownership. A minor might have to agree to the sale or transfer, otherwise then there's the trust issue?

It’s the court decision as it could be a case where the guardian (the mother) argues that the kid is starving and part of this money will go to feed him and provide an education. The court may decide to allow a portion of the sale money for this purpose or they will say it must be held till they are 20 years old. It still comes down to the courts to even allow the sale and what happens to the money. They would rather it goes to the child and they decide at age of 20.

If you want to make sure your child or you will be able to live there until your child is no longer alive and no sale can take place till that time. Do a right of habitation with your son and you as the grantee. The time period is to both of your natural lives. A right of habitation is a nontransferable right of a natural person(s) to dwell in the house of another. The right cannot be encumbered, sold, donated, transferred at any time, even at death. Habitation is a personal servitude, namely, a charge on a property in favor or a person, akin to but more limited than a usufruct. This provides a guaranteed right to a husband or child that insures they will have a place to stay. This right can only be set up for a dwelling and as a place to live for the recipient(s), the objective of the right can only be a place of dwelling.

If your wife wanted to cancel the right of habitation agreement with your son, with you no longer alive. It could only be done by court order until your child reaches 20 years old. After that age your son would have to agree to it and as he is able to live there until even if he is 100 years old rent fee ( this would not be a wise option on his part to cxl it!) The odds are very high the courts would never allow the sale as the grant is a clear benefit to the child with no clear proceeds from the sale going to the child. By the way, it is not a misprint, the period is not just 30 years, it could up being over 100 years if your child lives that long and he never has to pay rent!

Our professional fee for the contract is 9,500 Baht and registration at the land dept is 8,500 Baht. The government fees will be less than 400 Baht at the Land dept to register the right of habitation.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[number6]

I'm on the same wavelength as you..I'm insterested to know about leaving the house in their name. But as others said, what happens if you and your wife want to sell and move? Can you?

i read sunbelts sugestion and just thought it complicated tihngs more - a thing lawers and firms like sunbelt like to do - im sure they do a good job but like lawers in uk they always seem to want to complicate tihngs - i wonder why

anyway to answer your points you have to be confident that what your wife wants is sort of in line with what you want and it also depends of ocurse on how much you have and in the event of being run over by a bus or whatever how much you leave your wife. My wife always says if i go she does not want to sell anything - i tell her thats silly if she really needs money to live sell what she can. In my case if i go (nice word for demise) my wife has an income of at least 40,000 baht am onth minimum probably a lot more and no rent etc so thats plenty to live on here. Also a trust exists in uk for our childs education but it clearly says trustees can divert the money if really needed for other tihngs for our child. Im sure no court would allow her to sell unless she wasi n real nead and then I would want her to be able to sell.

Im sure you would not want your wife and child to live in poverty just because they could not relise the moneys on property - that in itself would be a great disadvantage for your child - having said that my wife lived a lot of her life in slums - sent herself to high school and higher by taking washing in at 10 years - worked herslef silly in factories (sweat shops) to improve her lot etc. I know its ture ive talked to all her high school chums - so maybe its not a bad idea it sure makes them street wise and if they can crawl out of that as my wife did it gave her real grit etc - but would i want to chance it with our child - to risky

[Loom]

As I read Sunbelt's replies, either alternative -- putting the kid's name on the title or giving yourself/offspring right of habitation -- essentially hand over the decision making to the courts until kid reaches age of 20. Even then, there's nothing to stop either your wife or kid from unilaterally selling the land to run off and spend money on fast cars, trips around the world, loser friends, designer cloths, endless parties, etc. unless u go with the right of habitation. So then it's more a matter of the trust u have in your wife to carefully manage money and do the right thing for your kid(s) if you're not around. Otherwise there are financial planning and lifestyle decisions ---If you're absolutely certain this is a location that you want to be. Or if there are other assets in your estate that can cover for your expected living expenses without having to tap equity on the land. If not, then I'd think hard about locking up substantial assets until kid reaches 20.

As for money in my home country, I considered gifting money to my kid, but I'd still have to pay tax on the income. The accounts would be custodial in nature, but the custodian would be able to do whatever he wanted to with the assets until the kid reached majority. Don't know if trust income is also taxable ; something I haven't explored seriously.

[Dragonman]

. The time period is to both of your natural lives. A right of habitation is a nontransferable right of a natural person(s) to dwell in the house of another. The right cannot be encumbered, sold, donated, transferred at any time, even at death. Habitation is a personal servitude, namely, a charge on a property in favor or a person, akin to but more limited than a usufruct. This provides a guaranteed right to a husband or child that insures they will have a place to stay. This right can only be set up for a dwelling and as a place to live for the recipient(s), the objective of the right can only be a place of dwelling.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

I am not convinced the "both"is correct! Thai child, no problem: foreigner would really have to convince a Court this was not contrived to breach the Land Code. 30 years considered max.

[Sunbelt Asia]

. The time period is to both of your natural lives. A right of habitation is a nontransferable right of a natural person(s) to dwell in the house of another. The right cannot be encumbered, sold, donated, transferred at any time, even at death. Habitation is a personal servitude, namely, a charge on a property in favor or a person, akin to but more limited than a usufruct. This provides a guaranteed right to a husband or child that insures they will have a place to stay. This right can only be set up for a dwelling and as a place to live for the recipient(s), the objective of the right can only be a place of dwelling.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

I am not convinced the "both"is correct! Thai child, no problem: foreigner would really have to convince a Court this was not contrived to breach the Land Code. 30 years considered max.

As long as his child was alive, and both names were on the right of habitation, the father tags along on the right.

If the father died before the child, the right of habitation would only terminate when the child died, even if it was 100 years later.

We called every Land Dept office on Friday and they all said they would allow the right of habitation to be registered for both the child and fathers life.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Dragonman]

. The time period is to both of your natural lives. A right of habitation is a nontransferable right of a natural person(s) to dwell in the house of another. The right cannot be encumbered, sold, donated, transferred at any time, even at death. Habitation is a personal servitude, namely, a charge on a property in favor or a person, akin to but more limited than a usufruct. This provides a guaranteed right to a husband or child that insures they will have a place to stay. This right can only be set up for a dwelling and as a place to live for the recipient(s), the objective of the right can only be a place of dwelling.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

I am not convinced the "both"is correct! Thai child, no problem: foreigner would really have to convince a Court this was not contrived to breach the Land Code. 30 years considered max.

As long as his child was alive, and both names were on the right of habitation, the father tags along on the right.

If the father died before the child, the right of habitation would only terminate when the child died, even if it was 100 years later.

We called every Land Dept office on Friday and they all said they would allow the right of habitation to be registered for both the child and fathers life.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

I am sure the Land Department is correct that it is not illegal under Civil & Commercial Code. I would have strong reservations about recommendation however as to the complexity of future disputes. For example, if divorce took place, wife has custody of child, owns home, but cannot live in home with child who has right of habitation, due to ex husband also being able to live on the property until death. The reason why in most Countries with rights of servitude, it is mainly in Wills that habitation rights are bequeathed.

[KronbergTH]

Off topic, or according to the first post, who controls the kid's votes on the annual meeting? Lets say he holds 51% of the shares in a company limited.

Edited August 21, 2006 by KronbergTH

[jasonc]

What happens when the Child who carries 2 passports at age 18 decides to become American and gives up her Thai citizenship? The US of A doesn't allow dual I believe... At this point a non-Thai owns land which is illegal under any circumstance I thought.

[Dragonman]

What happens when the Child who carries 2 passports at age 18 decides to become American and gives up her Thai citizenship? The US of A doesn't allow dual I believe... At this point a non-Thai owns land which is illegal under any circumstance I thought.

The US Government informally does not like Dual Citizenship! Formally, and it has been well and truly tested at Supreme Court, they are unable to stop it. No need to surrender any passport.

[Chang_paarp]

Off topic, or according to the first post, who controls the kid's votes on the annual meeting? Lets say he holds 51% of the shares in a company limited.

That was part of the origional idea. How the proxies of the kids are controlled could be organised in the setup I would hope, as there is no trust laws to allow a trust to be set up for the kids.

As the bitter and twisted one I would like to be the proxy/trustee for their votes, but milage may vary in every case.

It has been an interesting discussion about things that are different from "just set up a ltd company and you'll be right."