Property developers in Pattaya now feel impact from dropping Russian currency

[Rimmer]

Some off topic posts removed, the topic is about property in Pattaya not USA

[Anthony5]

The best evidence that the property market is down in Thailand, is that I can take you, within a radius of about 20 km around pattaya, to 1000 recenly build and empty shophouses. Add to that at least double that amount of townhouses and detached bungalows.

When you drive about 15 km on the road #36 towards Rayong, at the traffic lights where you can go right to Ban Chang, there are 110 Shophouses in a row completed about 3 months ago, and as of last week there were exactly 6 ( six) occupied.

That is a prime location for shophouses

[konying]

I notice no one ever asks where these Russians get their money from. I have a few years working in Russia and the average salary does not allow for family holidays to Thailand. Even the owner of the apartment block I lived in was well connected with the Mafia.

If Thailand checked I am sure most of these "investors" would have underground connections.

They should be a little more selective as to who they sell to

Where exactly did you live in Russia?

Average salary in Moscow is 35K plus.

2 bedroom unit in the heart of Moscow is few million DOLLARS

A studio, about 30 mins by metro is 500 000 DOLLARS

Officers in the army and police starting salary is 50 000 per month.

Despite some fairy tales you have heard, it is not easy to transfer money from Russia.

People need to provide purchase order to bank in Russia for bank to release the money.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

^^

1,000s of shophouses in and around Chiang Mai too.

And the asking prices are just silly. (3M-5M)

[Tony125]

What they need to do is promote Thailand to an economy that is booming---USA. Our dollar is strong , oil is cheap and people have extra to spend but most of my US friends have no clue what Thailand is like offer lower fares knock off the scams and advertise say on cheap late night TV about the joys of Thailand.

[Konini]

^^

1,000s of shophouses in and around Chiang Mai too.

And the asking prices are just silly. (3M-5M)

And yet they keep building them. And building them. At what point does an investor think 'Hmm. Enough shophouses. Farmhouses. Or Mancaves. Or anything except more empty townhouses.

The small investor here is really in the same league as the developers who are building more and more condo's. I don't try to understand that part of the Thai psyche any more.

[konying]

^^

1,000s of shophouses in and around Chiang Mai too.

And the asking prices are just silly. (3M-5M)

And yet they keep building them. And building them. At what point does an investor think 'Hmm. Enough shophouses. Farmhouses. Or Mancaves. Or anything except more empty townhouses.

The small investor here is really in the same league as the developers who are building more and more condo's. I don't try to understand that part of the Thai psyche any more.

I call it monkey see, monkey do attitude.

Most developments in my soi have slowed or stopped and my soi is NOT Russian market.

Yet, someone is breaking new ground again.

Might also have something to do with "may be lucky attitude" or the fortune teller advised

[Anthony5]

^^

1,000s of shophouses in and around Chiang Mai too.

And the asking prices are just silly. (3M-5M)

And yet they keep building them. And building them. At what point does an investor think 'Hmm. Enough shophouses. Farmhouses. Or Mancaves. Or anything except more empty townhouses.

The small investor here is really in the same league as the developers who are building more and more condo's. I don't try to understand that part of the Thai psyche any more.

I call it monkey see, monkey do attitude.

Most developments in my soi have slowed or stopped and my soi is NOT Russian market.

Yet, someone is breaking new ground again.

Might also have something to do with "may be lucky attitude" or the fortune teller advised

Same here. In my neighborhood they are building 4 large villages, big name developers like Sensiri, over 1000 houses all together. They started about 3 years ago and currently all of them have either ceased construction or a building at a slow pace.

Yet 500 meter down the road Patta village has started a new project with 220 houses about 2 months ago.

[elgordo38]

Does this mean we can buy a condo next year and pay 30-40% less than this year?

That never happened in Bangkok following the 1997 crisis. developers simply mothballed them to wait for better times ahead. Then, around 2003 you could wander around Bangkok and find empty shell condominiums all over the place covered in dust and cobwebs that had been simply locked up and left vacant for years. Some foreign entrepreneurs even made money by buying them from the developers, fitting them out and then flicking them on.

But something tells me that this kind of scenario is not going to happen this time because so many other economies are in such dire straits at the same time.

This is a much wider and deeper economic malaise affecting so many more global economies because

they are drowning in debt.

It will soon be a world wide financedemic not just Russia

[Konini]

Take a look at this ...

it could well change the way you think about economies. The underlying issue is that Governments have become far too big and now populations rely on their governments far too much ... there simply isn't any will remaining to make individual changes.

That was a pretty scary watch.

[lcp0761]

I have lots of American dollars willing and available to purchase Russian defaulted housing/condo's at a margin of the original price.

Property Developers - lets connect to discuss options.

[sscsamui]

I have talked to many Thai's and they seen to be happy that not as many Russians are not coming for some reason....

They believe someone else will come along and fill the gap.

[kap]

...with respect to Konini's attached vid about the UK financial situation:

The self promotion aspect aide, I could have been convinced that the subject country was my own, the US. In fact it could apply to most of the countries in the developed world...big government, the welfare state, entitlement mentality (which leads people to make liberal use of unfettered credit), etc.

The one thing which wasn't touched upon is the fact that the world has changed drastically over the last few decades. The developed world now has competition and not just with other lib-dem developed world economies, but with many very capable up and coming developing world economies (ie. China). IMHO, a significant part of the reason for the success of the developed world has been the lack of competion. About 85% of the population resides in the undeveloped (third world) and developing world. After so many years of not being able to pull their thumbs out of their asses, a substantial portion has now gotten their act together (by taking on many of the lessons which we learned long ago) and are now providing serious competition...but at a much lower wage/price point! The future for the developed world economies looks anything but rosy!

Edited December 23, 2014 by kap

[ozyjon]

I agree with all the posts here, if you are looking just at Phuket the you can comment on that scenario but i travel and have interests in other parts of the world and i an seeing the same half empty half built condos and properties half way around the world and the value of my properties are in free fall which prompts me to sell and free up my property and put the money in the bank, sure i get no interest there but at least i don't have to worry about maintenance and taxes,, but the question still beckons, should i buy or rent, the answer is staring you in the face, i think shortly cash will be king, if you don't have it then it will hurt. RENT IS BEST

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I notice no one ever asks where these Russians get their money from. I have a few years working in Russia and the average salary does not allow for family holidays to Thailand. Even the owner of the apartment block I lived in was well connected with the Mafia.

If Thailand checked I am sure most of these "investors" would have underground connections.

They should be a little more selective as to who they sell to

Where exactly did you live in Russia?

Average salary in Moscow is 35K plus.

2 bedroom unit in the heart of Moscow is few million DOLLARS

A studio, about 30 mins by metro is 500 000 DOLLARS

Officers in the army and police starting salary is 50 000 per month.

Despite some fairy tales you have heard, it is not easy to transfer money from Russia.

People need to provide purchase order to bank in Russia for bank to release the money.

Any facts to support your assertions?

Average monthly salary in Moscow over 55 800 rubles.

The average income per capita in Moscow on the basis of 2013 will amount to 51,338 rubles per month

Monthly wages in Moscow average at about 57,000 rubles, although most workers receive substantially less than that, a city official said.

“It is not that we all live affluently here, it is related to the fact that in Moscow there is a big rift between the low-paid and the high-paid,” Deputy Mayor for Social Development Leonid Pechatnikov said, m24.ru reported

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/moscow-monthly-wage-on-average-1800/487138.html

Other articles state the income of a Police officer at 50,000 rouble per month.

http://themoscownews.com/oped/20130128/191183303/Police%20corruption:%20all%20you%20need%20is%20trust%20.html

That is currently US$12k per annum.

Gandalf has a point. Don't dismiss it so derisively.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Jiu-Jitsu

[Asiantravel]

Last night I had to walk away from a heated discussion (because what I was being told makes no sense to me ) where the other party was absolutely insisting the Pattaya condominium market is now effectively being “ saved “ by absentee Chinese and Korean buyers. I should mention that one of the other participants in the discussion works for a property developer.

For example in Soi Yume near Big C extra there is a new condominium block which the developer claims has been 90% sold to Koreans and Chinese. Firstly I would expect the Chinese and Koreans to have entirely different motivations to buy a property in another country compared to Russian buyers. I can't believe for example, they would buy without knowing they can get a half decent return from their investment by renting it out. But I was being told last night this is not the case, which I find hard to believe .

Unlike Russians who I am sure in many cases would intend to occupy their condominiums, at least during their vacation there is no expectation that the Asian buyers will do the same and this is why it doesn't make any sense to me that they would be buying here in Pattaya in such volumes?

I was being told last night that the Korean and Chinese are only buying them here as opposed to, say, Bangkok just because it's near the ocean. The claim is that they are not looking for any rental return and they are just happy to sit on them.

Is it only me that finds this incredible?

Edited December 24, 2014 by Asiantravel

[jabis]

Last night I had to walk away from a heated discussion (because what I was being told makes no sense to me ) where the other party was absolutely insisting the Pattaya condominium market is now effectively being “ saved “ by absentee Chinese and Korean buyers. I should mention that one of the other participants in the discussion works for a property developer.

For example in Soi Yume near Big C extra there is a new condominium block which the developer claims has been 90% sold to Koreans and Chinese. Firstly I would expect the Chinese and Koreans to have entirely different motivations to buy a property in another country compared to Russian buyers. I can't believe for example, they would buy without knowing they can get a half decent return from their investment by renting it out. But I was being told last night this is not the case, which I find hard to believe .

Unlike Russians who I am sure in many cases would intend to occupy their condominiums, at least during their vacation there is no expectation that the Asian buyers will do the same and this is why it doesn't make any sense to me that they would be buying here in Pattaya in such volumes?

I was being told last night that the Korean and Chinese are only buying them here as opposed to, say, Bangkok just because it's near the ocean. The claim is that they are not looking for any rental return and they are just happy to sit on them.

Is it only me that finds this incredible?

That would be what any 'reassuring friend' would tell you, when in a pickle and seeing ROI having a negative marker on it.

EDIT: Also he would have a good deal for you on hand, should you have some liquidity...

Edited December 24, 2014 by jabis

[jacko45k]

Does this mean we can buy a condo next year and pay 30-40% less than this year?

You may be able to pick up someone's contract for a good price.

You may want to bring a low expectation of it being completed on time though.

[BestBitterPhuket]

Thailand deserves this. They still don't treat tourists with respect and dignity, and allow thugs and criminals to operate in the tourist industry.

[loppylugs1]

Last night I had to walk away from a heated discussion (because what I was being told makes no sense to me ) where the other party was absolutely insisting the Pattaya condominium market is now effectively being “ saved “ by absentee Chinese and Korean buyers. I should mention that one of the other participants in the discussion works for a property developer.

For example in Soi Yume near Big C extra there is a new condominium block which the developer claims has been 90% sold to Koreans and Chinese. Firstly I would expect the Chinese and Koreans to have entirely different motivations to buy a property in another country compared to Russian buyers. I can't believe for example, they would buy without knowing they can get a half decent return from their investment by renting it out. But I was being told last night this is not the case, which I find hard to believe .

Unlike Russians who I am sure in many cases would intend to occupy their condominiums, at least during their vacation there is no expectation that the Asian buyers will do the same and this is why it doesn't make any sense to me that they would be buying here in Pattaya in such volumes?

I was being told last night that the Korean and Chinese are only buying them here as opposed to, say, Bangkok just because it's near the ocean. The claim is that they are not looking for any rental return and they are just happy to sit on them.

Is it only me that finds this incredible?

They will not be paying the condo fees anyway so the place will look like a bombed out shell in a year or so..

Property market here is likened to a session of a slice of the Mad Hatters tea party,every day let the party begin. Must be completely off your trolley to put one penny in this market,and now the penny drops.

Feel that something will be taking shape in Thailand in forthcoming months that will make farang jump ship,before SS Thailand gets a soaking Talk of stagflation hitting the high street

[yankee99]

The best evidence that the property market is down in Thailand, is that I can take you, within a radius of about 20 km around pattaya, to 1000 recenly build and empty shophouses. Add to that at least double that amount of townhouses and detached bungalows.

When you drive about 15 km on the road #36 towards Rayong, at the traffic lights where you can go right to Ban Chang, there are 110 Shophouses in a row completed about 3 months ago, and as of last week there were exactly 6 ( six) occupied.

That is a prime location for shophouses

There massive amounts of shop that have been built over the past few years on soi siam cc. I thought they would never sell but i was wrong.

[Naam]

The best evidence that the property market is down in Thailand, is that I can take you, within a radius of about 20 km around pattaya, to 1000 recenly build and empty shophouses. Add to that at least double that amount of townhouses and detached bungalows.

When you drive about 15 km on the road #36 towards Rayong, at the traffic lights where you can go right to Ban Chang, there are 110 Shophouses in a row completed about 3 months ago, and as of last week there were exactly 6 ( six) occupied.

That is a prime location for shophouses

There massive amounts of shop that have been built over the past few years on soi siam cc. I thought they would never sell but i was wrong.

in 1998 part of Jomtien was a graveyard. real estate eggsburts forecasted "empty for decades to come!" five years later all buildings were occupied and scores of additional ones were built.

[Dogbreath]

It's their job and their attitude

the only down side is that people lost there job and you have ugly empty half built building as for those russians on here and the street not many people have any good words for them as they thought they ruled the world with there attitude and rude behaviour

[Cake Monster]

I wonder if all the toxic debt from the developers of the condo,s will be held by the Thai banks Etc as assets, and show as such in their accounting.

[EyesWideOpen]

The condo market here in Pattaya is a complete mystery to me. Thousands of unsold units,

yet I see " developers" breaking ground and build new units like they were mushrooms.

Three choices here...

1. The developers here are completely insane

2. There is a lot of corruption money that must be put somewhere

3. Smart money knows casino gambling is coming to Pattaya, in which case Pattaya will

take off to the moon.......

[i claudius]

Last night I had to walk away from a heated discussion (because what I was being told makes no sense to me ) where the other party was absolutely insisting the Pattaya condominium market is now effectively being “ saved “ by absentee Chinese and Korean buyers. I should mention that one of the other participants in the discussion works for a property developer.

For example in Soi Yume near Big C extra there is a new condominium block which the developer claims has been 90% sold to Koreans and Chinese. Firstly I would expect the Chinese and Koreans to have entirely different motivations to buy a property in another country compared to Russian buyers. I can't believe for example, they would buy without knowing they can get a half decent return from their investment by renting it out. But I was being told last night this is not the case, which I find hard to believe .

Unlike Russians who I am sure in many cases would intend to occupy their condominiums, at least during their vacation there is no expectation that the Asian buyers will do the same and this is why it doesn't make any sense to me that they would be buying here in Pattaya in such volumes?

I was being told last night that the Korean and Chinese are only buying them here as opposed to, say, Bangkok just because it's near the ocean. The claim is that they are not looking for any rental return and they are just happy to sit on them.

Is it only me that finds this incredible?

I know the block you mean ,my wife was there renting out a property some weeks ago ,you may find it incredible ,but it is true , and i find that incredible as well considering the prices there . as a matter of fact the client she deals with owns three condos there and she is Thai.

[2fishin2]

^^

1,000s of shophouses in and around Chiang Mai too.

And the asking prices are just silly. (3M-5M)

All over the country

[Tolley]

Thailand deserves this. They still don't treat tourists with respect and dignity, and allow thugs and criminals to operate in the tourist industry.

What do you expect it is a mafia run country.

[2fishin2]

Last night I had to walk away from a heated discussion (because what I was being told makes no sense to me ) where the other party was absolutely insisting the Pattaya condominium market is now effectively being “ saved “ by absentee Chinese and Korean buyers. I should mention that one of the other participants in the discussion works for a property developer.

For example in Soi Yume near Big C extra there is a new condominium block which the developer claims has been 90% sold to Koreans and Chinese. Firstly I would expect the Chinese and Koreans to have entirely different motivations to buy a property in another country compared to Russian buyers. I can't believe for example, they would buy without knowing they can get a half decent return from their investment by renting it out. But I was being told last night this is not the case, which I find hard to believe .

Unlike Russians who I am sure in many cases would intend to occupy their condominiums, at least during their vacation there is no expectation that the Asian buyers will do the same and this is why it doesn't make any sense to me that they would be buying here in Pattaya in such volumes?

I was being told last night that the Korean and Chinese are only buying them here as opposed to, say, Bangkok just because it's near the ocean. The claim is that they are not looking for any rental return and they are just happy to sit on them.

Is it only me that finds this incredible?

My last condo owner is Korean. In this development, there are a few owned by different Koreans. ALL are trying to sell. Chinese people dont buy condos.

[The manic]

No the forges report about the junta I cannot post the link here because the truth it tell is illegal in thailand