Lodestone Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I had no idea going through a solid object (the roof) can be ignored when calculating a bullet's acceleration and final velocity. The things you learn reading ThaiVisa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wat dee Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 A bullet coming down might leave a mark if it hit someone but I doubt it would hurt. Still silly thing to do. Maybe a big mark if it went throw the roof or ricocheted from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Unless a bullet is fired straight up, stops and then falls, it follows an arc trajectory. It's losing speed all of the time due to wind resistance and other factors. We'd have to know the exact type, not just caliber to look up it's muzzle velocity. Then we'd need to know the distance it traveled before it hit the roof to estimate its terminal velocity. Then we'd need to know the angle at which it hit the roof to guess the speed it hit the table. The roof would slow it down some. If it was in describing an arc, but dropping and was actually aimed at the table when it penetrated the roof it could possibly have also penetrated the table. It probably wasn't just falling or it probably wouldn't have penetrated the roof. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inepto Cracy Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 A bullet coming down might leave a mark if it hit someone but I doubt it would hurt. Still silly thing to do. Bullets coming down and hitting people or animals, do kill. Case in Johannesburg, South Africa around 1986, a bullet fired from Ellis Park Rugby ground, came down and struck and killed a young girl child. The trajectory was eventually traced back to the firearm owner who fired the shot, to ring in the new year and he was subsequently charged with murder. So not a smart move at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaidel48 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 yes i do, a few years ago, it happened in our house too I also had it happen to my house in Bangkok. Although it maybe a little scarey I reckon that it would not hurt after being fired into the air and then passing through the roof tiles and false ceiling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocopops Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Unless a bullet is fired straight up, stops and then falls, it follows an arc trajectory. It's losing speed all of the time due to wind resistance and other factors. We'd have to know the exact type, not just caliber to look up it's muzzle velocity. Then we'd need to know the distance it traveled before it hit the roof to estimate its terminal velocity. Then we'd need to know the angle at which it hit the roof to guess the speed it hit the table. The roof would slow it down some. If it was in describing an arc, but dropping and was actually aimed at the table when it penetrated the roof it could possibly have also penetrated the table. It probably wasn't just falling or it probably wouldn't have penetrated the roof. Assuming it was fired more or less into the air, why would it's horizontal velocity make a difference? Surely the only significant factor contributing to the impact speed is the height it falls from? (High School Physics! I knew it would come up eventually!) Edited December 30, 2014 by cocopops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Unless a bullet is fired straight up, stops and then falls, it follows an arc trajectory. It's losing speed all of the time due to wind resistance and other factors. We'd have to know the exact type, not just caliber to look up it's muzzle velocity. Then we'd need to know the distance it traveled before it hit the roof to estimate its terminal velocity. Then we'd need to know the angle at which it hit the roof to guess the speed it hit the table. The roof would slow it down some. If it was in describing an arc, but dropping and was actually aimed at the table when it penetrated the roof it could possibly have also penetrated the table. It probably wasn't just falling or it probably wouldn't have penetrated the roof. Assuming it was fired more or less into the air, why would it's horizontal velocity make a difference? Surely the only significant factor contributing to the impact speed is the height it falls from? (High School Physics! I knew it would come up eventually!) If you fire a bullet straight up into the air, it will stop and the only power it has while falling is the force of gravity. If you fire it somewhat upward so it describes an arc, it will retain a lot of the original muzzle velocity for a long distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Unless a bullet is fired straight up, stops and then falls, it follows an arc trajectory. It's losing speed all of the time due to wind resistance and other factors. We'd have to know the exact type, not just caliber to look up it's muzzle velocity. Then we'd need to know the distance it traveled before it hit the roof to estimate its terminal velocity. Then we'd need to know the angle at which it hit the roof to guess the speed it hit the table. The roof would slow it down some. If it was in describing an arc, but dropping and was actually aimed at the table when it penetrated the roof it could possibly have also penetrated the table. It probably wasn't just falling or it probably wouldn't have penetrated the roof. Assuming it was fired more or less into the air, why would it's horizontal velocity make a difference? Surely the only significant factor contributing to the impact speed is the height it falls from? (High School Physics! I knew it would come up eventually!) It's called vectoring and Newtonian mechanics covers it. A bullet shot straight up loses all its energy via gravity and air friction, that is a vertical vector only. When the energy is fully dissipated it gathers energy only from gravity coming down up to terminal velocity. Shot at an angle you have the horizontal vector, that is the forward energy of the bullet when it leaves the barrel and the energy loss is the air friction and the vertical component from gravity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocopops Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Unless a bullet is fired straight up, stops and then falls, it follows an arc trajectory. It's losing speed all of the time due to wind resistance and other factors. We'd have to know the exact type, not just caliber to look up it's muzzle velocity. Then we'd need to know the distance it traveled before it hit the roof to estimate its terminal velocity. Then we'd need to know the angle at which it hit the roof to guess the speed it hit the table. The roof would slow it down some. If it was in describing an arc, but dropping and was actually aimed at the table when it penetrated the roof it could possibly have also penetrated the table. It probably wasn't just falling or it probably wouldn't have penetrated the roof. Assuming it was fired more or less into the air, why would it's horizontal velocity make a difference? Surely the only significant factor contributing to the impact speed is the height it falls from? (High School Physics! I knew it would come up eventually!) If you fire a bullet straight up into the air, it will stop and the only power it has while falling is the force of gravity. If you fire it somewhat upward so it describes an arc, it will retain a lot of the original muzzle velocity for a long distance. I get it now, thanks. You're saying that even if the gun is fired at a steep angle, the remaining part of the horizontal component of the muzzle velocity might still end up being much greater than the vertical component caused by gravity. Which seems intuitive once pointed out... I have very little to do with guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Unless a bullet is fired straight up, stops and then falls, it follows an arc trajectory. It's losing speed all of the time due to wind resistance and other factors. We'd have to know the exact type, not just caliber to look up it's muzzle velocity. Then we'd need to know the distance it traveled before it hit the roof to estimate its terminal velocity. Then we'd need to know the angle at which it hit the roof to guess the speed it hit the table. The roof would slow it down some. If it was in describing an arc, but dropping and was actually aimed at the table when it penetrated the roof it could possibly have also penetrated the table. It probably wasn't just falling or it probably wouldn't have penetrated the roof. Assuming it was fired more or less into the air, why would it's horizontal velocity make a difference? Surely the only significant factor contributing to the impact speed is the height it falls from? (High School Physics! I knew it would come up eventually!) If you fire a bullet straight up into the air, it will stop and the only power it has while falling is the force of gravity. If you fire it somewhat upward so it describes an arc, it will retain a lot of the original muzzle velocity for a long distance. I get it now, thanks. You're saying that even if the gun is fired at a steep angle, the remaining part of the horizontal component of the muzzle velocity might still end up being much greater than the vertical component caused by gravity. Which seems intuitive once pointed out... I have very little to do with guns. A very small caliber rifle such a a .22LR can be deadly at a mile (1.6 kms) if fired somewhat upward and describes an arc to the target. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 11mm thats not a handgun. Its a bloody cannon Not really. The 9mm Which is common is considered a smaller caliber although it is fast and for various reasons such as penetration is an excellent choice. 11 mm is just over 40 caliber which is a very common gun. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surangw Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 an unaimed bullet always hits its mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time Traveller Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 A bullet coming down might leave a mark if it hit someone but I doubt it would hurt. Still silly thing to do. Wrong a bullet coming down is just as dangerous as one going up. Whenever I take friends shooting, I always warn them not to fire any gun straight up into the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time Traveller Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) why is nationality always mentioned in these stories? in other countries people are just people, here there is a racial overtone to everything. like the race is more important then whats being reported. Wrong. In America the media loves it when a black man is shot dead by a white man preferably if it's the police. CNN, MSNBC, ABC, Bloomberg feed off those stories for months. It's disgusting watching those news presenters saviltate at the mouth when something like that happens. On the other hand a white person being shot dead is not newsworthy. Edited December 30, 2014 by Time Traveller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 At my wife's uncles funeral a couple of years ago his mates in the village "home guard" (you know, the guys in khaki uniforms who put up those breeze block bunkers at the entrance to villages) fired a sort of salute as the cremation started. One fished out an old Colt.45 automatic and started blatting away at the sky. When it stopped firing, either because the magazine was empty or it had a stoppage,( he didn't bother to look to see which), he just stuffed it back in the waistband of his trousers! If it had gone off it would have made his eyes water! Another, armed with an old M16 which didn't appear to have been cleaned since the fall of Saigon, let of a couple of rounds before it jammed. He then proceeded to wave it around horizontally whilst he tried to clear the stoppage. All this in the middle of a crowded crematorium. I do wonder how many of these.characters either shoot themselves or innocent bystanders during these celebrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonmarleesco Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Whoever the stupid, stupid <deleted> was, it's unfortunately endemic of Thais' disconnect between dangerous actions and the potential result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirpia Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 A bullet coming down might leave a mark if it hit someone but I doubt it would hurt. Still silly thing to do. Wrong a bullet coming down is just as dangerous as one going up. Whenever I take friends shooting, I always warn them not to fire any gun straight up into the air. Maybe don't take your friends shooting, and perhaps stop shooting, yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonmarleesco Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 At my wife's uncles funeral a couple of years ago his mates in the village "home guard" (you know, the guys in khaki uniforms who put up those breeze block bunkers at the entrance to villages) fired a sort of salute as the cremation started. One fished out an old Colt.45 automatic and started blatting away at the sky. When it stopped firing, either because the magazine was empty or it had a stoppage,( he didn't bother to look to see which), he just stuffed it back in the waistband of his trousers! If it had gone off it would have made his eyes water! Another, armed with an old M16 which didn't appear to have been cleaned since the fall of Saigon, let of a couple of rounds before it jammed. He then proceeded to wave it around horizontally whilst he tried to clear the stoppage. All this in the middle of a crowded crematorium. I do wonder how many of these.characters either shoot themselves or innocent bystanders during these celebrations. Added to which, what goes up ... the bullets have to land somewhere, quite possibly not sufficiently spent of energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tocquinio Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Not clever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timewilltell Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 why is nationality always mentioned in these stories? in other countries people are just people, here there is a racial overtone to everything. like the race is more important then whats being reported. When in Rome ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halloween Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Oz army training advocated defensive bases using tripod mounted M60s aimed at remote locations up to 3500m away, usually path intersections or creek crossings, to deny their use to enemy. There were data tables to equate elevation to range (max at 45 degrees), and bursts would be fired at random. I must admit, I never went out to one of those locations to see if the bullets would hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeeos Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 A bullet coming down might leave a mark if it hit someone but I doubt it would hurt. Still silly thing to do. Really?.... it obviously had enough "juice" to punch through a roof,,, I'm quite sure it wouldn't have just bounced off the top of a 2 yr olds head,,,, I guess the numerous reports of people being killed by this every year are simply, incorrect?.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeeos Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 But it was fired from an Eastern direction You can't make this sh_it up... Well,, I guess you COULD make it up,,, but it's not really rocket science to figure out a general direction of where it came from,,, It obviously didn't come STRAIGHT down,,, so if the hole in the roof was say,, the center of a compass,, and it impacted a table, the floor, ect,, to the West of the hole in the roof,, (or NW, or SW, etc, etc,,) I'd say Ya,,, you could reasonably determine at least a general direction of where it came from by the angle from the hole in the roof, and the impact point,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornishcarlos Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 But it was fired from an Eastern direction You can't make this sh_it up... Well,, I guess you COULD make it up,,, but it's not really rocket science to figure out a general direction of where it came from,,, It obviously didn't come STRAIGHT down,,, so if the hole in the roof was say,, the center of a compass,, and it impacted a table, the floor, ect,, to the West of the hole in the roof,, (or NW, or SW, etc, etc,,) I'd say Ya,,, you could reasonably determine at least a general direction of where it came from by the angle from the hole in the roof, and the impact point,, Errr, I think it would come straight down unless it had been fired directly at the house from a very high vantage point. But I could be making that up too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Oz army training advocated defensive bases using tripod mounted M60s aimed at remote locations up to 3500m away, usually path intersections or creek crossings, to deny their use to enemy. There were data tables to equate elevation to range (max at 45 degrees), and bursts would be fired at random. I must admit, I never went out to one of those locations to see if the bullets would hurt. I should imagine it would be rather disturbing. Picture the scene. There you are bimbling along at night, full of evil intent towards the hated Diggers. You come to a track junction. Out with the shaded torch and map - now let me check do we turn left or right? All of a sudden the darkness is rent by an awful farting noise and twenty odd 7.62 rounds ping off your tin hat. I expect it would hurt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpoint Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 But it was fired from an Eastern direction You can't make this sh_it up... Well,, I guess you COULD make it up,,, but it's not really rocket science to figure out a general direction of where it came from,,, It obviously didn't come STRAIGHT down,,, so if the hole in the roof was say,, the center of a compass,, and it impacted a table, the floor, ect,, to the West of the hole in the roof,, (or NW, or SW, etc, etc,,) I'd say Ya,,, you could reasonably determine at least a general direction of where it came from by the angle from the hole in the roof, and the impact point,, Errr, I think it would come straight down unless it had been fired directly at the house from a very high vantage point. But I could be making that up too Ah, the good old "Roadrunner" school of physics' first law: "Any object will continue travelling through the air in a perfectly straight line until it realises just where it is, and will then plummet to the ground vertically". All that calculus taught in schools is a total waste of time! (And looks to have been for many people). Or maybe the child was the one who fired the bullet, from her "my little cowboy pony matching gun and spurs set", and it indeed travelled straight up and then straight back down, re-enetring the roof through the same hole it made exiting it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halloween Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Oz army training advocated defensive bases using tripod mounted M60s aimed at remote locations up to 3500m away, usually path intersections or creek crossings, to deny their use to enemy. There were data tables to equate elevation to range (max at 45 degrees), and bursts would be fired at random. I must admit, I never went out to one of those locations to see if the bullets would hurt. I should imagine it would be rather disturbing. Picture the scene. There you are bimbling along at night, full of evil intent towards the hated Diggers. You come to a track junction. Out with the shaded torch and map - now let me check do we turn left or right? All of a sudden the darkness is rent by an awful farting noise and twenty odd 7.62 rounds ping off your tin hat. I expect it would hurt! At 3500m the farting noise would be rather faint, and arrive about 5 secs after the "hard rain". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperylobster Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 A bullet coming down might leave a mark if it hit someone but I doubt it would hurt. Still silly thing to do. So untrue... I could provide multiple links to stories where people are killed by stray bullets...especially when fired up in the air, and then decending..with velocity...further downrange. Happens quite often in these countries....especially the Philippines.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperylobster Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 A bullet coming down might leave a mark if it hit someone but I doubt it would hurt. Still silly thing to do. Really?.... it obviously had enough "juice" to punch through a roof,,, I'm quite sure it wouldn't have just bounced off the top of a 2 yr olds head,,,, I guess the numerous reports of people being killed by this every year are simply, incorrect?.... Once again...anything is possible, when dealing with the misinformed. Bullets bouncing off soft little baby heads? This could be a child from the planet Krypton. Perhaps you would like to catch the stray bullets with your hands, thus proving there is no hole in the theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petedk Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 A bullet coming down might leave a mark if it hit someone but I doubt it would hurt. Still silly thing to do. Hard objects traveling at terminal velocity or better do indeed hurt. And kill. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebratory_gunfire Last year someone threw a childs plstic toilet seat from a nearby condo. It went straight through our roof. So a bullet falling would definetly do damage to someones head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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