Night Bazaar and Environs

[daoyai]

This has been an interesting topic on a cultural level. I am perplexed as to what the OP is looking for and why she is so defined by her sexual practices. I could understand if she were looking for a place with a certain ambiance, music style or vibe but since she stated she was not looking to "hook-up" why the need to even delare her lesbianism? All I can figure is perhaps the OP is more familiar with or fearful of areas where there may be hostility to LGBTs or ... maybe she doesn't want to be around any hetero males as she did state she is hit on often (?) .... I have come to the possible conclusion that the OP "thinks to much" .

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ Yes, that was also where I was going with the question on why she'd even mention/consider (male) gay bars. I was wondering if the answer would be along the lines of acceptance of lgbt people, or not being hit on.

So with male gay bars also ruled out and no further description of the ideal place / expectations, I think the answer just remains that just about any place that is otherwise fun (music, ambiance, people) should work just fine. On the other hand it may also be a bit presumptuous of me to declare that being lesbian completely isn't an issue anywhere in Chiang Mai; while that is certainly my perception and (limited) experience, I'd have to be lesbian (or at least female) to say for sure.

So visit a couple pubs along Nimmanhaemin Rd (some are down the sois), and also visit Zoe Yellow and nearby bars. For a short visit that's pretty much all you need anyway. And note that many of the bars with bargirls along Loy Kroh are also very welcoming to women in general. Those are actually a fair option a bit earlier before Zoe gets going.

Edited January 4, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Beetlejuice]

^ Yes, that was also where I was going with the question on why she'd even mention/consider (male) gay bars. I was wondering if the answer would be along the lines of acceptance of lgbt people, or not being hit on.

So with male gay bars also ruled out and no further description of the ideal place / expectations, I think the answer just remains that just about any place that is otherwise fun (music, ambiance, people) should work just fine. On the other hand it may also be a bit presumptuous of me to declare that being lesbian completely isn't an issue anywhere in Chiang Mai; while that is certainly my perception and (limited) experience, I'd have to be lesbian (or at least female) to say for sure.

So visit a couple pubs along Nimmanhaemin Rd (some are down the sois), and also visit Zoe Yellow and nearby bars. For a short visit that's pretty much all you need anyway. And note that many of the bars with bargirls along Loy Kroh are also very welcoming to women in general. Those are actually a fair option a bit earlier before Zoe gets going.

Winnie, please tell me what, Igbt means? I tried looking it up but all I found was, insulated-gate bipolar transistor.

[Tywais]

Winnie, please tell me what, Igbt means? I tried looking it up but all I found was, insulated-gate bipolar transistor.

To start with it begins with an L not an i. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT

[Beetlejuice]

Winnie, please tell me what, Igbt means? I tried looking it up but all I found was, insulated-gate bipolar transistor.

To start with it begins with an L not an i. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT

Thanks for that Tywais. I`m not up to all this newfangled cyber abbreviation stuff out there. Most of the time I am struggling to understand what most of these descriptions mean. I now except I`m passed my sell by date.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Beetlejuice

[nycjoe]

You're no longer in the western world. You have to leave western thinking behind. Just try to have fun and you will meet many like minded people along the way. My advise is to wing it and let it happen.

[Beetlejuice]

You're no longer in the western world. You have to leave western thinking behind. Just try to have fun and you will meet many like minded people along the way. My advise is to wing it and let it happen.

My guess is the girls were probably unimpressed with Chiang Mai and have moved on to pastures anew by now. No point in given them any further advice until if or when they return with a report on their activities.

[Ulysses G.]

Winnie, please tell me what, Igbt means? I tried looking it up but all I found was, insulated-gate bipolar transistor.

To start with it begins with an L not an i. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT

Thanks for that Tywais. I`m not up to all this newfangled cyber abbreviation stuff out there. Most of the time I am struggling to understand what most of these descriptions mean. I now except I`m passed my sell by date.

If you use the correct spelling, you can Google almost anything these days. I constantly have to search for the meaning of abbreviations.

[Paagai]

I've always had a bit of a problem with the LGBT acronym. I understand the "united we stand" concepts espoused by politically correct LGBT rights activists, but it is not always appropriate. This thread shows clearly that the one size fits all description doesn't allow for the actually quite different interests of gay males and lesbians. As a gay man I have no interest in women (straight or lesbian) except as friends, I think the term Bi-sexual is often just a cop out when used as an identity, and I have ABSOLUTELY no intention of growing boobs and getting my bits cut off. So why label me LGBT?

But then I don't understand other parts of the gay activism thing either. Why do we want gay marriage? I'm quite happy to leave the wife and kids family values of marriage to the Christians if it makes 'em happy. A legal partnership formula that gives equal rights to homosexual partners under the law, as it does to hetros should be enough. And if we are going to have gay marriage let's at least live up to our stereotypes and make it polygamous.

Then there were the LGBT activist driven protests against Russia and the Olympics where everyone got their collective pink knickers in a twist in EXACTLY the way Putin wanted to divert attention from his real agenda. What an agenda that has turned out to be.

Guess I'd better get ready to duck the pink hand-grenades

[Ulysses G.]

Well, I agree with you completely I HATE the LGBT term - I don't think it will last - and I'm against gay marriage.

I think that a legal partnership formula that truly gives equal rights to homosexual partners is fair to everyone. It really gets on my nerves when some people insist that not supporting gay marriage is bigoted. I feel that traditional marriage should remain the tradition and civil partnerships - or something similar - should apply to non-traditional marriages, but with the exact same rights as heterosexual couples.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Well, I agree with you completely I HATE the LGBT term - I don't think it will last - and I'm against gay marriage.

I'm against any kind of marriage.

Especially the kind that involves government registration. Just get rid of it entirely, update tax laws to disregard the specific ways people live together, and let people have any kind of ceremony they wish if they feel they want one prior to living together (or not living together) in any configuration they see fit.

I've always had a bit of a problem with the LGBT acronym. I understand the "united we stand" concepts espoused by politically correct LGBT rights activists, but it is not always appropriate. [...] I have ABSOLUTELY no intention of growing boobs and getting my bits cut off. So why label me LGBT?

In fairness it's not intended or even used as a label. Just that there are certain topics that apply to people who aren't cisgender / typical heterosexual. So when discussing those topics in conferences, policies and the like, it helps to have a word to describe whatcha talkin' bout. Also, always in motion, political correctness is. That's when you can't even be gay anymore but are now 'MSM'. (Another one for Beetlejuice to go Google. )

But then I don't understand other parts of the gay activism thing either. Why do we want gay marriage? I'm quite happy to leave the wife and kids family values of marriage to the Christians if it makes 'em happy. A legal partnership formula that gives equal rights to homosexual partners under the law, as it does to hetros should be enough. And if we are going to have gay marriage let's at least live up to our stereotypes and make it polygamous.

YES, that. Though I still prefer government to butt the heck out of people's personal lives. Go build roads or schools or something but quit messing with the way people want to live.

Even though Thai government (no matter who's in charge) is quite conservative, we're all relatively fortunate that Thai 'society' is a lot more accepting of people who don't live the exact same way as the supposed government ideal. Which is why non-heterosexual people don't really have problems deciding where to go and where not to go for a night out, or any other activities.

(There.. did that last line get things back on topic..?)

Edited January 5, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[bangmai]

It looks like the "silent majority" has spoken.

[Beetlejuice]

Well, I agree with you completely I HATE the LGBT term - I don't think it will last - and I'm against gay marriage.

I think that a legal partnership formula that truly gives equal rights to homosexual partners is fair to everyone. It really gets on my nerves when some people insist that not supporting gay marriage is bigoted. I feel that traditional marriage should remain the tradition and civil partnerships - or something similar - should apply to non-traditional marriages, but with the exact same rights as heterosexual couples.

In many cases there is no choice, because to show disapproval of certain political correctnesses and of now that has become apparently acceptable in a lot of countries, even without prejudice is actually going against the law. It is possible to face heavy fines, bans and even incarceration just for our views The subject of gay marriage can be considered as borderline prejudice even if some do not agree with it just for practical reasons.

The gay communities worldwide, just like many other minorities have fought uphill battles for centuries to obtain the freedoms and rights they have today, although there is still much bias and hated displayed towards them. But in my opinion when political correctnesses and silencing rules and laws are imposed upon people to the extremes then this can increase hatred and prejudice even more, that becomes a discrete form of hatred that they never know when and where these hatreds are going to come to the surface. So it is no wonder that these people are maybe wary of others that are not their peers or in their circles.

In actually, this is a rather complicated issue as to what should be acceptable and where to draw the line and not to be perceived as being bigots ourselves. Or perhaps it`s a case of, the less said, the better.

[Caitrin]

NYCJoe:

I've lived my entire post-university life in the East, the vast majority of it in Japan. Japan has a lesbian scene, and some of it is bar-based, but regardless, there are still lesbian hangouts. I know plenty of Japanese and expat lesbians. The issue clearly isn't a westerncentric one. There are some similarities throughout Asia, but there are also clearly big differences from culture to culture. You making this about the west means you're the one in the western headspace.

Paagai:

I'm one of those "united we stand, divided we fall" types when it comes to activism, and you know, also not being an <deleted>. And I enjoy mixed queer spaces, and plenty of cisgender gay male friends of mine do too. Does that mean each letter in the alphabet soup doesn't sometimes require their own spaces? Of course not, but to cisgender heterosexual individuals, we're all queer. If you think they make much distinction between us, or at least enough to justify some sort of broken up separate civil rights movements, I would say that you're giving them far too much credit.

You've underlined something very important when considering inter-queer dynamics though: that of repeated hierarchies. You rail against gay marriage because of marriage as some sort of problematic heteronormative institution and then you turn right around and engage in bi-erasure (yes, Virgina, bisexuals do exist and bisexuality is real, even if neither you nor I share that orientation) and transphobia. Or at the very least, a really shitty way of describing hormone replacement therapy and sex reassignment surgery. Breasts are both gender signifier and part of female puberty, both of which are usually very important to trans women--and deeply problematic for trans men. And as for SRS, it's far from accurate to talk about cutting off bits. That's not how it works. It'd be far more accurate to talk about reconfiguring genitalia. Trans women and trans men can be straight, bisexual, or gay. You can have lesbian trans women or gay trans men, trans women who are romantically and sexually attracted to men are not some kind of extremely femme gay man, they're straight women, likewise it's not uncommon for young straight trans men to look at butch lesbians and at first attempt to place their masculinity within that framework only to realise: they're men, and butch lesbians are women, and a fundamental gender disconnect exists there.

Trying to separate the T from the LGB is impossible unless all trans people were straight, and that's simply not true. Trying to erase bisexual people from the group because you chose not to believe in their orientation is no less harmful that straight people not believing in yours. Not cool at all.

As for the marriage issue, I believe there should only be government recognised civil unions (a legal contract), and "marriage" as a word should only be used for religious ceremonies which I may or not may consider silly or sacred depending. However, as long as legal marriage as a legislative and judicial concept exists, it must be applied equally to all people regardless of gender/orientation. I see giving everyone marriage as a step towards moving to a universal civil union conceptualisation for everyone.

As to the topic: we did not find the space we were looking for, but we did enjoy Chiang Mai and will definitely go back. I'll be back in a few months. The topic was simply a sort of "we'd like to if possible," the enjoyment of our time in Chiang Mai did not rest upon it.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Now you've done it... This should be good.

Can I ping you for a contribution the next time we do this discussion in the General forum? Should only be a couple days until it's due again.

Very solid post by the way. Though could be over quite a few heads here..

Edited January 9, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Paagai]

That'll teach me not to make provocative tongue in cheek posts!

But, at least there seems to be some consensus on Gay Marriage in this thread

I think Winnie has it right with MSM, it sums up many modern homosexual men much better than "gay". i.e. perfectly normal males who happen to have a sexual preference for men rather than women, and Grindr on their smart phones (or perhaps it should be S&M). Yet more for Beetlejuice to Google...

Edited January 9, 2015 by Paagai