Thailand: Impeachment vote a hot potato

[webfact]

Impeachment vote a hot potato
NITIPOL KIRAVANICH
THE NATION

Whatever NLA chooses will make waves; could doom reconciliation: observers

BANGKOK: -- AS THE NATIONAL Legislative Assembly (NLA) edges closer to reaching its final decisions in the impeachment cases against allegedly malfeasant politicians, whatever it decides will undoubtedly cause great dissatisfaction among one group or another - resulting in a political time bomb for the government.

This coming Thursday and Friday will see the first hearing and opening statements in the biggest impeachment cases in Thai politics.

Thursday's proceedings will be in the cases against former Parliament president Somsak Kiatsuranon and his former deputy, Nikom Wairatpanich, while Friday's will be in the case against ex-prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra in connection with the rice-pledging programme.

The National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) earlier found Somsak and Nikom guilty of violating the 2007 Constitution for trying to push through an amendment that would change the make-up of the Senate, while Yingluck was accused by the agency of dereliction of duty over the pledging scheme.

The NLA will make a deciding vote on these matters shortly, which means the military-appointed assembly will have the final say on whether the three accused politicians are impeached.

On one hand, if the NLA impeaches Somsak and Nikom, their supporters, especially from the Pheu Thai Party, will undoubtedly not be pleased and it could lead to disputes later.

On the other hand, if the NLA votes not to impeach the two politicians, it could ignite the dissatisfaction of people who are not Somsak and Nikom supporters.

NLA member Wallop Tang-kananurak said he would scrutinise the cases against them carefully and without prejudice.

When asked whether he was concerned that the results of the votes would cause renewed political chaos, he said he was not thinking that far ahead, but he urged everyone to respect and accept the results of the impeachment process.

"The ship is now moving, but in what direction no one knows; also, everyone should respect its destination," said the NLA member.

Wallop said he had seen the investigative reports forwarded by the NACC and personally considered the politicians to be guilty based on the evidence, but the problem lay in the uncertainty of the NLA's authority.

He has to scrutinise the matter further in the first hearing before making a final decision on how to vote, he added.

However, the leader of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), Weng Tojirakarn, said that if the NLA voted for the impeachment of Somsak and Nikom, it could not be carried out under the rule of law.

"Under the rule of law, if there is no law, there is also no guilt," he insisted.

Weng said that even if Somsak and Nikom were found guilty under the 2007 Constitution, right now that charter was defunct.

If the NLA wants to prove its sincerity under legal justice in the case, it should drop the impeachment process, he argued.

The UDD leader said it was true that under the 2014 provisional constitution imposed by the junta, the NLA had been working as both the House of Representatives and the Senate, but the interim charter did not stipulate the NLA's authority to impeach political wrongdoers.

"Every surgeon is under the law. However, under some circumstances there are paramedics who treat patients before the surgeon.

"Under the law they are now acting as physicians, they can treat wounds and bandage the scars, but they cannot operate as surgeons do," Weng explained metaphorically.

He added that if the NLA pursued the impeachment of the two politicians, it would be no different than a vigilante body.

Nonetheless, Suriyasai Katasila, a former leading member of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), has posted via his Facebook page that in the case of Yingluck, perhaps not impeaching her would mean granting her an amnesty in disguise.

Suriyasai, who is director of the Thailand Reform Institute (TRI), posted that the impeachment case against the ex-prime minister could be seen as a political time bomb, and that it should be accepted that no matter how the votes pan out, the decision could create waves that affect politics directly.

If three-fifths of the NLA members, or 132 votes, are not in favour of the case against Yingluck, the assembly would not be able to impeach her, which would then leave the question of who would be responsible in connection with the rice-pledging scheme, he said on Facebook.

On the other hand, if the former PM were to be impeached, there would undoubtedly be another group of people claiming that an innocent person was being impeached under the NLA's prejudices, and furthermore the cause of reconciliation would not be promoted, he added.

"This situation has no third exit and cannot be negotiable. If the state power cannot prove or separate rights and wrongs from each other, it would raise questions as to whether we can really trust the state power or not," he posted.

Suriyasai also said that in regard to NLA members who are in the military and who say they intend not to impeach politicians, in order to promote reconciliation, it would mean they realise that the rice-pledging case has really damaged the country and that the lead defendant in the case must be held responsible for it, but in the interests of reconciliation, they would vote no.

"It could mean these people [military] want to eradicate the guilt for some wrongdoers," he posted.

Despite all these ideas from interested parties and agencies, it can be seen that whichever way the impeachment cases against Somsak, Nikom and Yingluck turn out,

the decisions could set standards for the government's reconciliation plans, while the public's attention will be captured in respect of how the government handles further disputes and pursues its reconciliation plans.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Impeachment-vote-a-hot-potato-30251268.html


-- The Nation 2015-01-06

[Robby nz]

Choosing reconciliation over the rule of law will reconcile nothing.

The opportunity is there now to show future politicians that they will be held accountable for dereliction of duty, corruption and lawlessness if it is not taken then reforms will be a complete waste of time.

Stuff those who would ignore the law and object on political principals and ideologies.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Robby nz

[NeverSure]

Choosing reconciliation over the rule of law will reconcile nothing.

The opportunity is there now to show future politicians that they will be held accountable for dereliction of duty, corruption and lawlessness if it is not taken then reforms will be a complete waste of time.

Stuff those who would ignore the law and object on political principals and ideologies.

Agreed. But the current government wants to maintain its current popularity ratings, proven by polls, of 94%. They could lose 1 or 2 percent of that if they convict Yingluck.

Actually, I don't know how far it would go, but it's possible that if they punished?????? Yingluck.

I have been wondering if they would delay and then find an excuse to not put Yingluck on trial.

Thailand's political system is a mess and more than one group is corrupt.

I'm waiting to see if the powerful general will actually punish Yingluck. I'll bet he wishes it would all go away.

[The stuttering parrot]

The military appointed assembly will have the final say on whether they will impeach or not.

What an absolute joke.

First no coup then I'm not going to be PM then Suthep admits the general and himself conspired months before the coup itself to bring the government down and now the military are placed in key positions to make decisions like this one on impeachment.

I'm pretty sure I know which way it's going to go and even if it goes the other way what gives this unelected lot any right to make any decisions .

Give the people the vote back they are the ones who should decide who they want in power and who should be impeached via the constitution not some made up one which apparently doesn't allow it.

[Thai at Heart]

Wallop said he had seen the investigative reports forwarded by the NACC and personally considered the politicians to be guilty

Thanks for the prejudicial statement. These numpties can't help themselves. Any chance he might share this evidence with everyone or will that b secret too?

[thesetat2013]

These reports are like scare tactics. Trying to make the NLA think twice about doing anything or nothing at all. Instead they should be focusing on justice for the crimes against the people and the Gov and making sure justice is served no matter what others think or threaten.

So what if one group is not happy as long as justice was served. These people use and abuse their position with the people to twist laws, threaten and harass groups who enforce laws simply with their numbers. The news should be reporting their threats as intimidation against justice seekers and their parties should be disbanded and their leaders banned from speaking any politics or from re-forming any more political groups.

[tbthailand]

"The ship is now moving, but in what direction no one knows; also, everyone should respect its destination," said the NLA member.

The senators are to be impeached because they proposed that the senate become a fully elected body.

That shows everyone in which direction the ship is moving.

[ramrod711]

However, the leader of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), Weng Tojirakarn, said that if the NLA voted for the impeachment of Somsak and Nikom, it could not be carried out under the rule of law.

"Under the rule of law, if there is no law, there is also no guilt," he insisted.

If one considers this to be rational thinking, then the UDD should be ecstatic that there was a coup.

[Thai at Heart]

These reports are like scare tactics. Trying to make the NLA think twice about doing anything or nothing at all. Instead they should be focusing on justice for the crimes against the people and the Gov and making sure justice is served no matter what others think or threaten.

So what if one group is not happy as long as justice was served. These people use and abuse their position with the people to twist laws, threaten and harass groups who enforce laws simply with their numbers. The news should be reporting their threats as intimidation against justice seekers and their parties should be disbanded and their leaders banned from speaking any politics or from re-forming any more political groups.

You do realise that most of the reason they are scared is because when they are out of power the very same process will be held against them

I mean honestly impeaching for this type of thing is fraught with problems for precedent particularly when it comes to accusations about using funds.

Beyond this, these voting quorums are basically rubber stamps normally. Much in the way that half the reason to get rid of ptp was because they had a majority and could apparently do what they want.

Well, so far, any oppositions to anything the junta has implemented? I think the voting record is plenty versus zip right?

So the hypocrisy isnt lost on most. They have replaced one elected rubber stamp with an unelected one and removed all hope of debate or sanction.

[NeverSure]

Choosing reconciliation over the rule of law will reconcile nothing.

The opportunity is there now to show future politicians that they will be held accountable for dereliction of duty, corruption and lawlessness if it is not taken then reforms will be a complete waste of time.

Stuff those who would ignore the law and object on political principals and ideologies.

Agreed. But the current government wants to maintain its current popularity ratings, proven by polls, of 94%. They could lose 1 or 2 percent of that if they convict Yingluck.

Actually, I don't know how far it would go, but it's possible that if they punished?????? Yingluck.

I have been wondering if they would delay and then find an excuse to not put Yingluck on trial.

Thailand's political system is a mess and more than one group is corrupt.

I'm waiting to see if the powerful general will actually punish Yingluck. I'll bet he wishes it would all go away.

And here a brand new news item which might confirm it. LINK

[yellowboat]

Impeachment is reserved for those still holding office. Perhaps it means something different in Thai. This is a criminal matter and not impeachment. They can least get the basic concepts legal correct. Then again, it is Thailand.

Are coups legal ? What a waste of time.

[DKUNPUTAF713]

"Impeachment is reserved for those still holding office. Perhaps it means something different in Thai. This is a criminal matter and not impeachment. They can least get the basic concepts legal correct. Then again, it is Thailand."

"Are coups legal ? What a waste of time."

Absolutely coups are illegal. The JUNTA and the military appointed assembly are also at best an illegal entity even in Thailand.

[Robby nz]

"The ship is now moving, but in what direction no one knows; also, everyone should respect its destination," said the NLA member.

The senators are to be impeached because they proposed that the senate become a fully elected body.

That shows everyone in which direction the ship is moving.

No they are not.

They are being brought up for impeachment for the underhand and frankly illegal way in which they handled the changed bill which was agreed upon and passed at the first reading then passed by the house in the dead of night when the opposition had been told to go home and the way they manipulated the senate to get the altered bill passed.

You know that but still you persist in posting the same bias garbage.

[ImmortalGod]

These reports are like scare tactics. Trying to make the NLA think twice about doing anything or nothing at all. Instead they should be focusing on justice for the crimes against the people and the Gov and making sure justice is served no matter what others think or threaten.

So what if one group is not happy as long as justice was served. These people use and abuse their position with the people to twist laws, threaten and harass groups who enforce laws simply with their numbers. The news should be reporting their threats as intimidation against justice seekers and their parties should be disbanded and their leaders banned from speaking any politics or from re-forming any more political groups.

The one group who will not be happy just happens to be the majority of Thais, this is why the imbecilic impeachment attempt is a hot potato; nobody knows if it will be the straw that breaks the camels back in regards to just how much the good people of Thailand will tolerate from these greedy thugs. You cannot disband and silence and entire population. Don't worry too much though, justice is coming to those who deserve it for generations of criminality against the people of Thailand.

[mango66]

The military appointed assembly will have the final say on whether they will impeach or not.

What an absolute joke.

First no coup then I'm not going to be PM then Suthep admits the general and himself conspired months before the coup itself to bring the government down and now the military are placed in key positions to make decisions like this one on impeachment.

I'm pretty sure I know which way it's going to go and even if it goes the other way what gives this unelected lot any right to make any decisions .

Give the people the vote back they are the ones who should decide who they want in power and who should be impeached via the constitution not some made up one which apparently doesn't allow it.

you are right !

bring back thaksin -

and his money for vote buying !!

better he invest in red mob than in DUBAI !!

[Bakseeda]

The military appointed assembly will have the final say on whether they will impeach or not.

What an absolute joke.

First no coup then I'm not going to be PM then Suthep admits the general and himself conspired months before the coup itself to bring the government down and now the military are placed in key positions to make decisions like this one on impeachment.

I'm pretty sure I know which way it's going to go and even if it goes the other way what gives this unelected lot any right to make any decisions .

Give the people the vote back they are the ones who should decide who they want in power and who should be impeached via the constitution not some made up one which apparently doesn't allow it.

Yes...... What an absolute joke..!

[h90]

Choosing reconciliation over the rule of law will reconcile nothing.

The opportunity is there now to show future politicians that they will be held accountable for dereliction of duty, corruption and lawlessness if it is not taken then reforms will be a complete waste of time.

Stuff those who would ignore the law and object on political principals and ideologies.

I guess there are back-room deals made....We don't bite you, you don't bite us......Another couple of years lost.

[ImmortalGod]

"The ship is now moving, but in what direction no one knows; also, everyone should respect its destination," said the NLA member.

The senators are to be impeached because they proposed that the senate become a fully elected body.

That shows everyone in which direction the ship is moving.

No they are not.

They are being brought up for impeachment for the underhand and frankly illegal way in which they handled the changed bill which was agreed upon and passed at the first reading then passed by the house in the dead of night when the opposition had been told to go home and the way they manipulated the senate to get the altered bill passed.

You know that but still you persist in posting the same bias garbage.

Illegal - describes everything that the PAD, Yellow Shirts, Pitak Siam, PDRC, Democrats, Military, Elites and Ammart have done over the past decade in a single word. New Zealand would never tolerate or accept your views - no wonder you emigrated.

[yellowboat]

You westerners that defend the coup are mind boggling. You have an illegal entity, the junta, prosecuting a once legal entity for allegedly doing something illegal. They can't even get the basic legal terms right.

[Robby nz]

"The ship is now moving, but in what direction no one knows; also, everyone should respect its destination," said the NLA member.

The senators are to be impeached because they proposed that the senate become a fully elected body.

That shows everyone in which direction the ship is moving.

No they are not.

They are being brought up for impeachment for the underhand and frankly illegal way in which they handled the changed bill which was agreed upon and passed at the first reading then passed by the house in the dead of night when the opposition had been told to go home and the way they manipulated the senate to get the altered bill passed.

You know that but still you persist in posting the same bias garbage.

Illegal - describes everything that the PAD, Yellow Shirts, Pitak Siam, PDRC, Democrats, Military, Elites and Ammart have done over the past decade in a single word. New Zealand would never tolerate or accept your views - no wonder you emigrated.

What a piss poor attempt at diversion you will have to do better than that if you want to join the ranks of the yingluck defenders.

Try posting the truth as I have done, but that would be against all principals of the reds.

[Robby nz]

You westerners that defend the coup are mind boggling. You have an illegal entity, the junta, prosecuting a once legal entity for allegedly doing something illegal. They can't even get the basic legal terms right.

How is calling for the rule of law to be applied to errant politicians so it will set a precedent for the future defending the coup ?

You westerners who defend the corruption of criminal on the run and his proxy government should really take a close look at yourselves.

[gemini81]

You westerners that defend the coup are mind boggling. You have an illegal entity, the junta, prosecuting a once legal entity for allegedly doing something illegal. They can't even get the basic legal terms right.

You're not seeing the big picture, nor the events that'll unravel in the future they're trying to prepare for. Can't compare it really to a typical western country's situation. Read between the lines. Was such a cesspool of graft under PTP there was no other way, nor with things transpiring...

[yellowboat]

You westerners that defend the coup are mind boggling. You have an illegal entity, the junta, prosecuting a once legal entity for allegedly doing something illegal. They can't even get the basic legal terms right.

How is calling for the rule of law to be applied to errant politicians so it will set a precedent for the future defending the coup ?

You westerners who defend the corruption of criminal on the run and his proxy government should really take a close look at yourselves.

No judge and jury, we are not defending corruption. We are defending due process. Impeachment comes when you are still in office. They are no longer in office. Also, is the current government legal ? Can you usurp control of a government legally ?

[ImmortalGod]

You westerners that defend the coup are mind boggling. You have an illegal entity, the junta, prosecuting a once legal entity for allegedly doing something illegal. They can't even get the basic legal terms right.

How is calling for the rule of law to be applied to errant politicians so it will set a precedent for the future defending the coup ?

You westerners who defend the corruption of criminal on the run and his proxy government should really take a close look at yourselves.

And what fate, pray tell, should the Generals face to set a precedent for the future so that coups become a thing of the past?

I think you'll find us Westerners are defending democracy, due process, freedom and equality - not Thaksin.

You on the other hand.... there are no words to describe the repugnance of your morals and ethics siding with semi- fascist anti-democrats.

[ImmortalGod]

You westerners that defend the coup are mind boggling. You have an illegal entity, the junta, prosecuting a once legal entity for allegedly doing something illegal. They can't even get the basic legal terms right.

You're not seeing the big picture, nor the events that'll unravel in the future they're trying to prepare for. Can't compare it really to a typical western country's situation. Read between the lines. Was such a cesspool of graft under PTP there was no other way, nor with things transpiring...

Thai politics has always been a top a cesspool, at least before it was heading in the right direction. Democracy is the only disinfectant that will clean out scum, yet the military and the plutocracy don't want that, they want the corruption to continue, just with their unpopular snouts in the trough. In one form or another, PTP and Thaksin will be back, only when they are removed from power, by legitimate means (elections) will Thailand finally be on the road to open and honest governance, all of the coups and street mobs achieve nothing other than delaying the arrival of that longed for day.

[Baerboxer]

These reports are like scare tactics. Trying to make the NLA think twice about doing anything or nothing at all. Instead they should be focusing on justice for the crimes against the people and the Gov and making sure justice is served no matter what others think or threaten.

So what if one group is not happy as long as justice was served. These people use and abuse their position with the people to twist laws, threaten and harass groups who enforce laws simply with their numbers. The news should be reporting their threats as intimidation against justice seekers and their parties should be disbanded and their leaders banned from speaking any politics or from re-forming any more political groups.

The one group who will not be happy just happens to be the majority of Thais, this is why the imbecilic impeachment attempt is a hot potato; nobody knows if it will be the straw that breaks the camels back in regards to just how much the good people of Thailand will tolerate from these greedy thugs. You cannot disband and silence and entire population. Don't worry too much though, justice is coming to those who deserve it for generations of criminality against the people of Thailand.

The majority of Thai's did not vote for PTP, or support the crude attempt to whitewash PTP's criminal owner of his crimes. So why would the majority be against impeaching 2 politicians responsible for underhand illegal manipulations of the system in an attempt to get an illegally changed bill passed through without allowing the opposition to vote?

More examples of Shin democracy.

As for the never attending but willing to travel puppet PM/DM - taking negligence to new heights.

Stop spreading the lie the majority support PTP - too many of us have been here long enough to remember the large minority that voted for them at the last election and their performance at subsequent "safe" elections in which they bombed.

[GeckosDiving]

You westerners that defend the coup are mind boggling. You have an illegal entity, the junta, prosecuting a once legal entity for allegedly doing something illegal. They can't even get the basic legal terms right.

You're not seeing the big picture, nor the events that'll unravel in the future they're trying to prepare for. Can't compare it really to a typical western country's situation. Read between the lines. Was such a cesspool of graft under PTP there was no other way, nor with things transpiring...

Thai politics has always been a top a cesspool, at least before it was heading in the right direction. Democracy is the only disinfectant that will clean out scum, yet the military and the plutocracy don't want that, they want the corruption to continue, just with their unpopular snouts in the trough. In one form or another, PTP and Thaksin will be back, only when they are removed from power, by legitimate means (elections) will Thailand finally be on the road to open and honest governance, all of the coups and street mobs achieve nothing other than delaying the arrival of that longed for day.

Now let me get this straight what I think your trying to say is:

PTP & The Camel Turd In Dubai are Legitimate means linked to:

Cesspool

Scum

Corruption

Street Mobs

Then "Yes" I fully agree with you on that !!!

[The stuttering parrot]

Tell you what baerboxer.

You keep sprouting that the PTP isn't popular yet they win time and time again and the only tactics the yellows have is conspiracy with the military to force the PTP out because they can't accept loss.

Well put your general up for PM and abhisit for deputy against Thaksin and Yingluck

We all know the PTP would wipe them out of politics forever!

[metisdead]

Inflammatory insulting posts have been removed.

[Thai at Heart]

These reports are like scare tactics. Trying to make the NLA think twice about doing anything or nothing at all. Instead they should be focusing on justice for the crimes against the people and the Gov and making sure justice is served no matter what others think or threaten.

So what if one group is not happy as long as justice was served. These people use and abuse their position with the people to twist laws, threaten and harass groups who enforce laws simply with their numbers. The news should be reporting their threats as intimidation against justice seekers and their parties should be disbanded and their leaders banned from speaking any politics or from re-forming any more political groups.

The one group who will not be happy just happens to be the majority of Thais, this is why the imbecilic impeachment attempt is a hot potato; nobody knows if it will be the straw that breaks the camels back in regards to just how much the good people of Thailand will tolerate from these greedy thugs. You cannot disband and silence and entire population. Don't worry too much though, justice is coming to those who deserve it for generations of criminality against the people of Thailand.

The majority of Thai's did not vote for PTP, or support the crude attempt to whitewash PTP's criminal owner of his crimes. So why would the majority be against impeaching 2 politicians responsible for underhand illegal manipulations of the system in an attempt to get an illegally changed bill passed through without allowing the opposition to vote?

More examples of Shin democracy.

As for the never attending but willing to travel puppet PM/DM - taking negligence to new heights.

Stop spreading the lie the majority support PTP - too many of us have been here long enough to remember the large minority that voted for them at the last election and their performance at subsequent "safe" elections in which they bombed.

No but even the simplest mind can notice a kangaroo court when its as obvious as this.

The system to bring this to a court/impeachment isn't legitimate, unbiased and barely legal.