Many score poorly in pre-O-NET exams

[Lukecan]

English was lowest. As could be expected. Any proposals to have English speakers teach English? I am retired experienced career teacher from USA. Would be happy to donate a few hours a week at local school. Too many barriers, too much BS to be able to contribute. If I were to teach informally for free I could still be arrested for working without permit.

You'd be an asset to all educational institutions here in Thailand, but as you'd already pointed out, they seem to be too "unintelligent" to understand basic principles, nor do they have any common sense.

I'm working here now for ten years and the level of English hasn't increased at all. When I think back, I'm certain that kids' English was much better, before all the agencies sent their backpacking freaks to schools.

I had resigned my first teaching position at a nice Thai government primary school to work for an agency, as they paid 13 K more/month. But the native English speaking teachers they already had, were mostly uneducated people with a very bad command in their mother tongue.

One day we sat in our office and made jokes about how they're looking for their "teachers", when one Alaskan guy explained how they "found him." He lived on a roof, somewhere in Pattaya, had only one shirt and shorts. No more money, a pregnant girl friend, he'd met at a bar from Buri Ram, etc....

When a friendly guy bought him a beer which he drank at the beach, a Volkswagen van stopped at beach road, some guys approached him and immediately offered him a job as an English teacher.

The only fact that was important for them was that he came from an English speaking country. He couldn't even afford it to take a cab to get to their office in Bangkok and walked about 20 km. Jon, I hope you'll forgive me when you read this.

.

He started two days later at a well- known high school in Sisaket. When he came back from his first "lesson", he's really asking me, how I'd spell Wednesday?

I thought it was a weird joke, but then it turned out that he wrote: Wedsday on the board, when the kids started jelling: Teeechaaa...noooooo he didn't listen and kept his misspelled word as it was.

There're so many retired native English speaking people like you, who'd love to help them teaching, as most Thai English teachers can't even have a simple conversation with you.

So how can you learn English from somebody who can't speak it properly? It just doesn't work and the agencies with their "quality teachers" do the rest.

I'm pretty certain that you'd love teaching, once you've seen how the kids really are. The kids are really nice and innocent. Until their brains get damaged from Thai teachers, plus the physical abuse.

There's no light at the end of the tunnel. Not even a tiny one. Nil.

LOLLLLLLLLLLL

Is this story for real? Sounds more like a movie plot

[lostinisaan]

English was lowest. As could be expected. Any proposals to have English speakers teach English? I am retired experienced career teacher from USA. Would be happy to donate a few hours a week at local school. Too many barriers, too much BS to be able to contribute. If I were to teach informally for free I could still be arrested for working without permit.

You'd be an asset to all educational institutions here in Thailand, but as you'd already pointed out, they seem to be too "unintelligent" to understand basic principles, nor do they have any common sense.

I'm working here now for ten years and the level of English hasn't increased at all. When I think back, I'm certain that kids' English was much better, before all the agencies sent their backpacking freaks to schools.

I had resigned my first teaching position at a nice Thai government primary school to work for an agency, as they paid 13 K more/month. But the native English speaking teachers they already had, were mostly uneducated people with a very bad command in their mother tongue.

One day we sat in our office and made jokes about how they're looking for their "teachers", when one Alaskan guy explained how they "found him." He lived on a roof, somewhere in Pattaya, had only one shirt and shorts. No more money, a pregnant girl friend, he'd met at a bar from Buri Ram, etc....

When a friendly guy bought him a beer which he drank at the beach, a Volkswagen van stopped at beach road, some guys approached him and immediately offered him a job as an English teacher.

The only fact that was important for them was that he came from an English speaking country. He couldn't even afford it to take a cab to get to their office in Bangkok and walked about 20 km. Jon, I hope you'll forgive me when you read this.

.

He started two days later at a well- known high school in Sisaket. When he came back from his first "lesson", he's really asking me, how I'd spell Wednesday?

I thought it was a weird joke, but then it turned out that he wrote: Wedsday on the board, when the kids started jelling: Teeechaaa...noooooo he didn't listen and kept his misspelled word as it was.

There're so many retired native English speaking people like you, who'd love to help them teaching, as most Thai English teachers can't even have a simple conversation with you.

So how can you learn English from somebody who can't speak it properly? It just doesn't work and the agencies with their "quality teachers" do the rest.

I'm pretty certain that you'd love teaching, once you've seen how the kids really are. The kids are really nice and innocent. Until their brains get damaged from Thai teachers, plus the physical abuse.

There's no light at the end of the tunnel. Not even a tiny one. Nil.

LOLLLLLLLLLLL

Is this story for real? Sounds more like a movie plot

Each and every word is true and can be backed up.

Thanks for your post, it's really time to write a book AND then producing a movie about foreign teachers in Thailand. A Bestseller.......

The American ex- electrician who always gave them a worksheet, sat there for 45 minutes, then took the worksheets and threw them away.

Or XXXX, the guy from a little place somewhere near Birmingham, who wasn't even understood by his American colleagues, who was caught in an armed robbery, did the crime and did the time, just to become a "teacher" in Thailand.

Almost forgot the two alcoholics, who crashed their bikes right into another bike where students from their school were driving with. So intoxicated that a Thai teacher from the school who was called to the accident had to bring them home.

Last but not least the guy who's once asking me, if I'd use: " If I was, or if I were you, working in an EP program at a relatively good school. Explained why the use of "If I was you" would be grammatically wrong, bla bla, but he still conducted his lesson the next day, using "If I was you."/////

He's a TVF member, will read this and he's so brilliant that he knows all about everything. He couldn't continue teaching due a lack of degree etc, so he's doing some "telephone marketing", telling everybody that he'd quit teaching.

Same guy should work in the airbus industry, to make some more planes invisible. His brilliant theory that a Hercules C 130 only needs a 200 meter runway beats all.

Oh, almost forgot XXX, the guy who "made 16 years", because he blew somebody's head off. A friend "helped him" a little, to forge his criminal record by using photo shop. He looks so innocent that you wouldn't think that he's just a brainless killer.

Now please stop gossiping around and go back to work.

[Too]

Hello!

"When I think back, I'm certain that kids' English was much better, before all the agencies sent their backpacking freaks to schools."

I know three Britons (one man and two women) teaching in the town where I'm teaching now.

The man is not teaching legally because he didn't graduate from university or college in England so he can't have a Non-B visa for teaching or a work permit. He had no experience of teaching in England before coming to Thailand to teach at a primary school, either. Although I have never seen him teach, I can tell he's good at teaching after having chatted with him about how to teach. Sometimes he will even speak so slowly to me like talking to the kids. What he adds is he loves teaching the kids!

One of the two women is in her early 30's and teaching legally on a Non-B visa and a work permit. She's got a teaching experience in England before coming to Thailand to teach at the high school. I'm sure she's a good English teacher.

The other woman, who is in her mid 50's, is rubbish. She hasn't been back to England for a decade now. She will always speak very fast with a strong cockney accent and even mumble. What she told me was she didn't want to speak slowly to the kids when teaching. What she added was she didn't like teaching the kids! I'm sure she's never taught in England and just chose to teach English here because teaching English is one of the easiest jobs for an native English speaker to get overseas. Thoughtless... She left school in the middle of the last semester, which was very good for the kids, but it took them a few months to find another Farang teacher for her.

One thing for sure is not all the native speakers of English can be good teachers of English, though they're

native English speakers who are good English teachers.

You need to speak Thai if you teach at a primary school unless you have a Thai assistant in class to make sure the kids understand what you're teaching. I have to because I don't have one in class. This is hard, but it's alright because I love teaching the kids. (I taught back home for several years before coming to Thailand to start teaching at a primary school.)

[casualbiker]

^^^^^ anyone that was teaching in Thailand with a Wp prior to 2003 (no degree needed then) could get a Thai teaching licence using grandfather rights. The schools and immigration etc didn't actually require a degree until about 2008 when Khurusapha finally got their act together (kinda)

[lostinisaan]

"Look at the problem objectively. English speakers will never be able to adequately teach Thai and the same goes the opposite way around. What is needed are qualified native English speakers to teach English, anything less is just living in a dream world."

Absolute rubbish.

I was recently talking with some colleagues who have been doing a very lengthy study on this. Funny thing is there are 1000s of native english speakers hired in all schools around the country. 20 years ago and even 10 years ago students were scoring higher on their English proficiency exams for university than they are now but had primarily Thai teachers.

Is it because there are more native speakers that they aren't achieving the same scores? Yes in fact it is.

Some posters have made some valid arguments but primarily since most people commenting here don't actually know anything about education, assessments it is purely just smoke blowing.

Native speakers especially those with TEFL certificates especially the CELTA are to blame.

Before you get all defensive and stop reading further, calm down and relax.

These tests focus primarily on reading comprehension, writing and grammar. They do not have a listening or speaking section. Native speakers in the current trend of ELL focus on a communicative approach. I would argue that most students are much better at speaking English than they were 10 or 20 years ago. So that is a sucsess. Even 7/11 staff, mall cleaners, the guy who delivers kfc all have basic communicative abiltiy and they aren't highly educated.

We have changed the methods of our teaching and what we deem as more important but the tests are not aligned with these. The problem is that those that are created the assesments are not those that are in charge of the curriculum development or the trends in teaching.

Until there is a relationship between teaching methodology and assessment there will never be an accurate result. Kids are not any less hard working or any more stupid than years past. I know all of the above posters had perfect teachers and always did their homework and never did anything other than study but be realistic. Students today know more than you ever did at that age. And the majority of things that you learned in science or other subjects isn't even true today. The world has changed the needs of students and their future has changed. We don't need to memorize facts we can access them before students in the past could pass a note to the cute girl in the front.

To the degree qualified engineer. Hate to break it to you but what helped your relative was your involvement not your knowledge. Knowing engineering doesn't equate to knowing how to teach. But your involvement and support inspires the learner to try harder.

To all the ego driven teachers blaming the students or the system, realize that as a teacher your job isn't to impart knowledge it is to show students the path for them to access the knowledge on their own. In a class of 30 students you must realize that collectively they know more than you do.

I certainly agree with you to a point BUT most schools ONLY use their NES teachers for 1 lesson (maybe 2) out of the 4-5 that the students have for English. I think a larger problem is that Thai teachers and students just have much larger workload than is healthy. Added to that the constant cancellations etc and finally a test system out of touch with what's actually happening in the schools!

The Thai curriculum is disjointed and yet they have national testing on things that may never have been taught. I'm sure we all remember the football question from a few years ago!

[http://asiancorrespondent'>

The question most talked about this year appeared in the Health Education exam which M.6 students took just took on 19 February.

Q2: If you have a sexual urge, what must you do?

a) Call friends to go play football.

Talk to your family.

c) Try to sleep.

d) Go out with a friend of the opposite sex.

e) Invite a close friend to see a movie.

It could well be that the students are getting MORE intelligent than the test writer :-D

Other interesting stuff about ONET here : http://asiancorrespondent.com/76664/thai-education-part-1-ridiculous-o-net-questions/

Thanks for the link. Explains a lot.

[lostinisaan]

Hello!

"When I think back, I'm certain that kids' English was much better, before all the agencies sent their backpacking freaks to schools."

I know three Britons (one man and two women) teaching in the town where I'm teaching now.

The man is not teaching legally because he didn't graduate from university or college in England so he can't have a Non-B visa for teaching or a work permit. He had no experience of teaching in England before coming to Thailand to teach at a primary school, either. Although I have never seen him teach, I can tell he's good at teaching after having chatted with him about how to teach. Sometimes he will even speak so slowly to me like talking to the kids. What he adds is he loves teaching the kids!

One of the two women is in her early 30's and teaching legally on a Non-B visa and a work permit. She's got a teaching experience in England before coming to Thailand to teach at the high school. I'm sure she's a good English teacher.

The other woman, who is in her mid 50's, is rubbish. She hasn't been back to England for a decade now. She will always speak very fast with a strong cockney accent and even mumble. What she told me was she didn't want to speak slowly to the kids when teaching. What she added was she didn't like teaching the kids! I'm sure she's never taught in England and just chose to teach English here because teaching English is one of the easiest jobs for an native English speaker to get overseas. Thoughtless... She left school in the middle of the last semester, which was very good for the kids, but it took them a few months to find another Farang teacher for her.

One thing for sure is not all the native speakers of English can be good teachers of English, though they're

native English speakers who are good English teachers.

You need to speak Thai if you teach at a primary school unless you have a Thai assistant in class to make sure the kids understand what you're teaching. I have to because I don't have one in class. This is hard, but it's alright because I love teaching the kids. (I taught back home for several years before coming to Thailand to start teaching at a primary school.)

Thanks for sharing. I totally agree with your statement that it's necessary to use Thai at some primary schools, when teaching English. I'm sometimes alone with grade one kids in an EP set up almost all day long.

Sick kids, kids who had a fight and many other problems are being explained in Thai to me. I can't just tell them for example:" I reckon that you should go and see a doctor, immediately." ( using Cockney English)...........

And not having an assistant makes teaching English in a successful way almost impossible for lower grades, if you can't explain some stuff in their mother tongue.

Regarding the "rubbish woman", it doesn't really matter how long she hasn't been back home, the tone makes the music, right?

People like this woman with such "attitudes" shouldn't be allowed to teach anywhere on this planet. You seem to love your job, which is great.Keep it going-

Edited January 19, 2015 by lostinisaan

[culicine]

^^^^^ anyone that was teaching in Thailand with a Wp prior to 2003 (no degree needed then) could get a Thai teaching licence using grandfather rights. The schools and immigration etc didn't actually require a degree until about 2008 when Khurusapha finally got their act together (kinda)

To add to that, you also need an unbroken chain of teaching for this period also. I was going to use this route, but my school 'lost' my 2006 teacher licence information. Fortunately, I had done a grad Dip Ed in the meantime. A number of teachers at my school have used the grandfathering route, though none have formal teaching qualifications.

[lostinisaan]

^^^^^ anyone that was teaching in Thailand with a Wp prior to 2003 (no degree needed then) could get a Thai teaching licence using grandfather rights. The schools and immigration etc didn't actually require a degree until about 2008 when Khurusapha finally got their act together (kinda)

To add to that, you also need an unbroken chain of teaching for this period also. I was going to use this route, but my school 'lost' my 2006 teacher licence information. Fortunately, I had done a grad Dip Ed in the meantime. A number of teachers at my school have used the grandfathering route, though none have formal teaching qualifications.

Wasn't it 2004? I remember that my school had sent my documents and cash ( as far as I remember 500 baht) to the MoE, but then nothing happened, because some laws were changed

I started five months too late to be grandfathered. But casualbiker's statement isn't really true, that a degree was needed in 2008.

They even accepted a guy's " English course certificate" he'd made inside a high security prison. That was in the year 2012 at my former school.

And Khao San road's degree mill must have made millions of baht per year.

Until now, nobody at Khurusapha, or MoE found out that my degree in advanced astronautism isn't for real. -

[casualbiker]

^^^^^ anyone that was teaching in Thailand with a Wp prior to 2003 (no degree needed then) could get a Thai teaching licence using grandfather rights. The schools and immigration etc didn't actually require a degree until about 2008 when Khurusapha finally got their act together (kinda)

To add to that, you also need an unbroken chain of teaching for this period also. I was going to use this route, but my school 'lost' my 2006 teacher licence information. Fortunately, I had done a grad Dip Ed in the meantime. A number of teachers at my school have used the grandfathering route, though none have formal teaching qualifications.

Wasn't it 2004? I remember that my school had sent my documents and cash ( as far as I remember 500 baht) to the MoE, but then nothing happened, because some laws were changed

I started five months too late to be grandfathered. But casualbiker's statement isn't really true, that a degree was needed in 2008.

They even accepted a guy's " English course certificate" he'd made inside a high security prison. That was in the year 2012 at my former school.

And Khao San road's degree mill must have made millions of baht per year.

Until now, nobody at Khurusapha, or MoE found out that my degree in advanced astronautism isn't for real. -

Well, it was certainly right for my immigration area because it caused a fair few problems. Other immigration areas also required it. As far as I'm aware now it's virtually impossible to get an extension of stay based on teaching without a degree and the teaching waiver from khurusapha. Obviously at an immigration office "lost in Issan " it might not be such a problem if it's a government school etc