Has the condo discount festival started ?

[i claudius]

I had an agent offer me a place and throw in a candy like she will rent it out for me the first year. The gal was good-looking and would fetch 700 baht anytime at the coconut bar. However, I was not as stupid as she had thought (not quite...). The condo she showed had also been on offer with another 'agent' (probably worth 200 baht in boys' town). The good gal had simply added ten percent to the 'agent's' price. In other words, she wanted an agreement where she would get the full fee and her usual cut and on top of that make a sidedeal with me which would give her another nice slice of the pie.

If an agent starts talking of renting a unit out for you while offering it to you for sale, it is time to run in my experience. Hearing that somebody makes an offer for 10 units, I would love to see the contract. Are these units off-plan?

Moral ,DO NOT BUY FROM FREELANCE LADY AGENTS they always add on their fee ,the wife gets them phoning her all the time. you will pay to much for a property ,in fact she sold a condo some months ago to a woman who first was shown it by a freelance ,it would have cost her 200,000 baht more to buy through the freelance and not through the office my wife works at.

[LennyW]

Get the building appraised by a Chartered Surveyor (CS) - or equivalent. They can calculate the square foot value.

If you want to have some fun, ask the local 'real estate agent' (LOL) for a copy of the CS report.

LOL! !;Good luck with that, this ain't Kansas Toto

[losworld]

looks like the Saudi's are in this for the long term 2 to 5 years of low prices ,this is just the beginning. most smart oil producers put hedges on that run up to 18 months after that they will feel the pain or if they take off their hedges early. so this is just the beginning they want all future oil explorations to grind to a halt all alternative energy efforts to disappear. the next shoe to drop is oil industry workers are going to start to disappear from Thailand throwing their condos on a falling real estate market.

Do you seriously believe this is all about Saudis worried about fracturing? So in order to preserve future oil revenue they drop the price so far down they lose a fortune? Don't you find this more than a bit odd? Can people not put 2 and 2 together?

Further if you research you will find strong evidence that Saudi reserves are much smaller than they claim which gives them even more reason not to lower the price.

So Saudis are shooting themselves in the foot do you believe this?

[OMGImInPattaya]

I bought my condo some twenty years ago for 3 Million Baht, then spending about 1 Million Baht on a upgrade from the usual Thai standard product. The Condo has been well managed and well funded over the years, and we are sitting on a healthy sinking fund.

Comparable units are now selling, ( Not asking) between the 13 to 15 Million Baht range.

I have just let the unit to a company for 80K per Month, I am moving into another one I bought in the same building about 10 years ago.

I conservatively guessimate the "Saved rent" over 20 years to average around 40 K per month, = 480,000 per year x 20 = 9.6 Million Baht.

This all sounds wonderful but for every unit bought 20 years ago for a song there must be 10 bought last year that today are not worth anything near the amount that was paid for them. Were they bargains also? I don't think so.

Would you buy your own unit today for 15MB? And if you did, do you think it will be worth 50MB in 2035?

What you don't seem to comprehend is that today's 15 MB condo is the 3 MB condo of 20 years ago. There's a good chance that it will be worth 50M in 20 years.

If you have friends who think like you get them to e mail the wife ,she is in the property market ,and please tell us where you baught a condo 10 years ago for 3 million that now sells for 15 million ,God did i miss the boat in that block when we were looking.

First off the time period mentioned is 20 years not 10; and second, the point is that well managed properties in desirable locations will increase in value over time. Now in Pattaya, that excludes 95% of the properties on offer.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

First off the time period mentioned is 20 years not 10; and second, the point is that well managed properties in desirable locations will increase in value over time. Now in Pattaya, that excludes 95% of the properties on offer.

Plenty of people living in France and the USA have already found differently (houses and condos) over the past 20 years.

Why do you think Thai condos would be different?

Edited January 10, 2015 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Anthony5]

First off the time period mentioned is 20 years not 10; and second, the point is that well managed properties in desirable locations will increase in value over time. Now in Pattaya, that excludes 95% of the properties on offer.

Plenty of people living in France and the USA have already found differently (houses and condos) over the past 20 years.

Why do you think Thai condos would be different?

Could it be that "desirable" is the keyword?

[MRTELLYOUSTRAIGHT]

lol at the cheap Charlie Chang brigade. Never fail to amuse you with the condo market is crashing, rent don't buy, Pattaya is doomed, never invest more than you can walk away from, if you want a small fortune start of with a big one, etc etc etc... *yawn* *yawn* *yawn*

[AnotherOneAmerican]

lol at the cheap Charlie Chang brigade. Never fail to amuse you with the condo market is crashing, rent don't buy, Pattaya is doomed, never invest more than you can walk away from, if you want a small fortune start of with a big one, etc etc etc... *yawn* *yawn* *yawn*

The financial situation in the world, and in Thailand are way different now, than 10-15 years ago.

What you could do then, would be foolish to do now.

Especially with all the VISA tightening.

I invested 300k in a house last year (inc furnishing), SCB invested the rest.

If it all goes pear shaped, I can walk away, and the bank can clean up after me.

Edited January 10, 2015 by AnotherOneAmerican

[OnMyWay2]

I will buy a condo pretty soon. But honestly buying here and expecting the price to go up is just insane.

When im done with it, I'll be happy to get half what I paid especially after 20 years of wear and tear, lol.

[OMGImInPattaya]

First off the time period mentioned is 20 years not 10; and second, the point is that well managed properties in desirable locations will increase in value over time. Now in Pattaya, that excludes 95% of the properties on offer.

Plenty of people living in France and the USA have already found differently (houses and condos) over the past 20 years.

Why do you think Thai condos would be different?

Please find me a well managed property (house or condo) in a desirable location in the USA (we're not talking Detroit here) that has not substantially increase in value since 1995. Heck, a condo I bought in the San Francisco area tripled in value in about 15 years. There are always people who pay too much or buy at the top of a market cycle who will be losers (at least in the short-term) but even they will have a more valuable property in the long run if the first two prerequisites are in place. Ask anyone anywhere along the east/west coast of the United States or most of the urban south and Texas or the Rocky Mountain states who bought their property 20 years ago if they would do it again and I'm sure 99% would say yes.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I'm shocked that Farang are expected to live in Jomtien without ready access to a ladyboy bar - they are more than welcome to the scores of LBs at this end of 3rd Road. I'll even charter a bus to transport them to their new digs.

You'd be surprised...probably many of your friends too...if you only knew

[A1Str8]

No cuz there's no such thing.

[toenail]

I arrived in Pattaya 10 years ago (here for work-not retirement) and have seen these condo towers mushroom along Wongamat Beach and Jomtien area. (My first apartment I rented was down soi 16 Naklua and it was so quiet. Now the beach is walled in with condo towers...) The first couple years, I didn't know how long I would be in the area so renting was fine, then when I did think about purchasing a condo I was no longer "naive" about believing the promotion pamphlets, glitzy condo promotions, or a certification of some sort. Then I had friends who were condo owners that had problems with their neighbors renting for the holiday; thus partying through the night; another friend who invested big baht remodeling his newly purchased apartment, later to find out that the maintenance fee everyone was paying was being pocketed by the management (which was connected to some thugs); then I followed the court case when a particular condo complex along Jomtien beach was being built and "supposedly" according to building codes, no high rise was to be built within this distance from the sea....-so, the longer I stayed here, the more cautious or paranoid I became to buy a condo; whereas a gent that flies here for holiday for a few weeks would think, "Wow, a great deal, I'll buy a condo and someday make this my home.." not realizing building codes and "rules" do not apply in Pattaya like they would in his Western country. --But now, if I add up what I have spent on rent (company gives me a conservative housing allowance) I certainly could have invested in a modest condo.

-- What I do not understand, are there really that many people buying all these condos. I have no idea how many condos have been built the past 10 years in the Pattaya area, but even if this was huge metropolis, there wouldn't be enough people to occupy all of them. Unlike in ones home country where you are established and can get a mortgage, in Thailand (or other foreign countries) you have to come up with the cash... that is a lot of cash to invest into something that does not give you a decent profit when selling it in the future. The clientele I see visiting Pattaya doesn't seem to have cash to blow away so are these condo towers/buildings being built by companies that do not need to make a huge profit right away? Big mystery to me, especially when there are less Westerners retiring in Pattaya. Comments?

[Anthony5]

I arrived in Pattaya 10 years ago (here for work-not retirement) and have seen these condo towers mushroom along Wongamat Beach and Jomtien area. (My first apartment I rented was down soi 16 Naklua and it was so quiet. Now the beach is walled in with condo towers...) The first couple years, I didn't know how long I would be in the area so renting was fine, then when I did think about purchasing a condo I was no longer "naive" about believing the promotion pamphlets, glitzy condo promotions, or a certification of some sort. Then I had friends who were condo owners that had problems with their neighbors renting for the holiday; thus partying through the night; another friend who invested big baht remodeling his newly purchased apartment, later to find out that the maintenance fee everyone was paying was being pocketed by the management (which was connected to some thugs); then I followed the court case when a particular condo complex along Jomtien beach was being built and "supposedly" according to building codes, no high rise was to be built within this distance from the sea....-so, the longer I stayed here, the more cautious or paranoid I became to buy a condo; whereas a gent that flies here for holiday for a few weeks would think, "Wow, a great deal, I'll buy a condo and someday make this my home.." not realizing building codes and "rules" do not apply in Pattaya like they would in his Western country. --But now, if I add up what I have spent on rent (company gives me a conservative housing allowance) I certainly could have invested in a modest condo.

-- What I do not understand, are there really that many people buying all these condos. I have no idea how many condos have been built the past 10 years in the Pattaya area, but even if this was huge metropolis, there wouldn't be enough people to occupy all of them. Unlike in ones home country where you are established and can get a mortgage, in Thailand (or other foreign countries) you have to come up with the cash... that is a lot of cash to invest into something that does not give you a decent profit when selling it in the future. The clientele I see visiting Pattaya doesn't seem to have cash to blow away so are these condo towers/buildings being built by companies that do not need to make a huge profit right away? Big mystery to me, especially when there are less Westerners retiring in Pattaya. Comments?

You have to take into account that from most buildings only the foreign 49%, and may be a small percentage of the Thai allotment, gets sold and that the sales prices are calculated accordingly to this fact.

Take further into account that a big part of the foreign part is purchased by investors, who thought that trees grow into heaven, and you will have your answer why there are so many projects.

[losworld]

I also understand that in many of the buildings the Thais simply don't pay the maintenance fees meaning the foreigners are suckers paying the fees. Apparently many of the Thais will wait for the building to take them to court before coughing up fees.

[KittenKong]

I also understand that in many of the buildings the Thais simply don't pay the maintenance fees meaning the foreigners are suckers paying the fees. Apparently many of the Thais will wait for the building to take them to court before coughing up fees.

If fees go unpaid then interest is added. If fees become really high then the building may take the owner to court (where the building will win, even if it involves a forced sale of the unit). And if the owner wants to sell anyway then he has to get a debt-free certificate from the building to do so.

So in the end the fees will get paid.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I also understand that in many of the buildings the Thais simply don't pay the maintenance fees meaning the foreigners are suckers paying the fees. Apparently many of the Thais will wait for the building to take them to court before coughing up fees.

If fees go unpaid then interest is added. If fees become really high then the building may take the owner to court (where the building will win, even if it involves a forced sale of the unit). And if the owner wants to sell anyway then he has to get a debt-free certificate from the building to do so.

So in the end the fees will get paid.

Can't they also cut off utilities like water and electrics? A friend had his electricity cut-off for a time I believe during a dispute over association fees. However, this wouldn't affect an unoccupied unit.

[MrWorldwide]

I'm shocked that Farang are expected to live in Jomtien without ready access to a ladyboy bar - they are more than welcome to the scores of LBs at this end of 3rd Road. I'll even charter a bus to transport them to their new digs.

You'd be surprised...probably many of your friends too...if you only knew

I think we both know I have no friends, OMG. Only associates, acquaintances and people who still find my wallet attractive. At least the latter have stopped asking me for a 'loan'

[KittenKong]

Can't they also cut off utilities like water and electrics? A friend had his electricity cut-off for a time I believe during a dispute over association fees. However, this wouldn't affect an unoccupied unit.

They can and do, though water seems to be the favoured utility. Some say that if the electricity is billed directly by the electric company then the building doesn't have the right to cut it off. Others say it does.

A building can also restrict access to common areas and facilities like swimming pools and even elevators etc. In many buildings this isn't practical, of course.

[tontraveller]

Just got a mailing : generous offer for 1 mio discount when purchasing 65 sqm condo Jewel on Pratamnak..

Hurry, limited units available..

[john1000]

IMO You decide why you want to buy. A home or investment??

A place to stay and call home that you can afford in a good location at a reasonable rent will give you peace of mind, and no stress re prices fluctuating.

Investment wise, too dodgy to call in the present climate. Long term is an unknown in a volatile country.

[mike2011]

I had an agent offer me a place and throw in a candy like she will rent it out for me the first year. The gal was good-looking and would fetch 700 baht anytime at the coconut bar. However, I was not as stupid as she had thought (not quite...). The condo she showed had also been on offer with another 'agent' (probably worth 200 baht in boys' town). The good gal had simply added ten percent to the 'agent's' price. In other words, she wanted an agreement where she would get the full fee and her usual cut and on top of that make a sidedeal with me which would give her another nice slice of the pie.

If an agent starts talking of renting a unit out for you while offering it to you for sale, it is time to run in my experience. Hearing that somebody makes an offer for 10 units, I would love to see the contract. Are these units off-plan?

Moral ,DO NOT BUY FROM FREELANCE LADY AGENTS they always add on their fee ,the wife gets them phoning her all the time. you will pay to much for a property ,in fact she sold a condo some months ago to a woman who first was shown it by a freelance ,it would have cost her 200,000 baht more to buy through the freelance and not through the office my wife works at.

Claudius, it was worse than that. She was the employee of a so-called reputable agent! That's why she wanted to do the rent-out deal on the side. You get the picture, the whole industry is a zoo with all sorts of monkeys trying to play their game. Trust only your own research and what you see. 90% of the talking is a waste of time as the info is not verifiable or social chit-chat to soften you up for the upcoming kill.

Perhaps a somewhat obvious but still useful hint. Always check the sleeves of the agent. If he wears long sleeves try to figure if he trying to hide his tattoos. If he is, time to cut short the meeting.

[KittenKong]

Claudius, it was worse than that. She was the employee of a so-called reputable agent! That's why she wanted to do the rent-out deal on the side. You get the picture, the whole industry is a zoo with all sorts of monkeys trying to play their game. Trust only your own research and what you see. 90% of the talking is a waste of time as the info is not verifiable or social chit-chat to soften you up for the upcoming kill.

Sincerity and morals are certainly not job requirements in the Pattaya real estate business.

[Basil B]

I arrived in Pattaya 10 years ago (here for work-not retirement) and have seen these condo towers mushroom along Wongamat Beach and Jomtien area. (My first apartment I rented was down soi 16 Naklua and it was so quiet. Now the beach is walled in with condo towers...) The first couple years, I didn't know how long I would be in the area so renting was fine, then when I did think about purchasing a condo I was no longer "naive" about believing the promotion pamphlets, glitzy condo promotions, or a certification of some sort. Then I had friends who were condo owners that had problems with their neighbors renting for the holiday; thus partying through the night; another friend who invested big baht remodeling his newly purchased apartment, later to find out that the maintenance fee everyone was paying was being pocketed by the management (which was connected to some thugs); then I followed the court case when a particular condo complex along Jomtien beach was being built and "supposedly" according to building codes, no high rise was to be built within this distance from the sea....-so, the longer I stayed here, the more cautious or paranoid I became to buy a condo; whereas a gent that flies here for holiday for a few weeks would think, "Wow, a great deal, I'll buy a condo and someday make this my home.." not realizing building codes and "rules" do not apply in Pattaya like they would in his Western country. --But now, if I add up what I have spent on rent (company gives me a conservative housing allowance) I certainly could have invested in a modest condo.

-- What I do not understand, are there really that many people buying all these condos. I have no idea how many condos have been built the past 10 years in the Pattaya area, but even if this was huge metropolis, there wouldn't be enough people to occupy all of them. Unlike in ones home country where you are established and can get a mortgage, in Thailand (or other foreign countries) you have to come up with the cash... that is a lot of cash to invest into something that does not give you a decent profit when selling it in the future. The clientele I see visiting Pattaya doesn't seem to have cash to blow away so are these condo towers/buildings being built by companies that do not need to make a huge profit right away? Big mystery to me, especially when there are less Westerners retiring in Pattaya. Comments?

You have to take into account that from most buildings only the foreign 49%, and may be a small percentage of the Thai allotment, gets sold and that the sales prices are calculated accordingly to this fact.

Take further into account that a big part of the foreign part is purchased by investors, who thought that trees grow into heaven, and you will have your answer why there are so many projects.

I do not know about the 49% rule, but I suspect it is only 49% of sold units so if only 50% had been sold it would 24%...

But then are the remaining ones in the developers name?

Scary if over half the development is unsold and remains in the developers name as he would have virtual control over the management and could be depleting the funds for his own gain.

[KittenKong]

I do not know about the 49% rule, but I suspect it is only 49% of sold units so if only 50% had been sold it would 24%...

But then are the remaining ones in the developers name?

Scary if over half the development is unsold and remains in the developers name as he would have virtual control over the management and could be depleting the funds for his own gain.

Units belong to the developer until sold. The 51/49 ratio is calculated on the whole building, and unsold units are assumed to be in Thai name for this calculation. For an example, look at VT5D which when I last checked still had unsold units but only in Thai name.

Developers often act as management for a few years before turning the job over (voluntarily or not) to a management company under the orders of a committee, by which time the developer can cream off a decent percentage of the sinking fund and common fee bank balance. They also like to avoid paying their share of the maintenance fee, even though technically they should do so. If they also manage the building it is easier for them to get away with it of course.

Having never been very interested in off-plan developments I'm not sure of the exact legal status of an unsold unit with no chanote, or of the voting rights of the developer, but I suspect that the advantage is to the developer and not the co-owners.

If I was interested I would wade through this to learn more: http://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/new-thailand-condominium-act-2008.html

[Basil B]

I do not know about the 49% rule, but I suspect it is only 49% of sold units so if only 50% had been sold it would 24%...

But then are the remaining ones in the developers name?

Scary if over half the development is unsold and remains in the developers name as he would have virtual control over the management and could be depleting the funds for his own gain.

Units belong to the developer until sold. The 51/49 ratio is calculated on the whole building, and unsold units are assumed to be in Thai name for this calculation. For an example, look at VT5D which when I last checked still had unsold units but only in Thai name.

Developers often act as management for a few years before turning the job over (voluntarily or not) to a management company under the orders of a committee, by which time the developer can cream off a decent percentage of the sinking fund and common fee bank balance. They also like to avoid paying their share of the maintenance fee, even though technically they should do so. If they also manage the building it is easier for them to get away with it of course.

Having never been very interested in off-plan developments I'm not sure of the exact legal status of an unsold unit with no chanote, or of the voting rights of the developer, but I suspect that the advantage is to the developer and not the co-owners.

If I was interested I would wade through this to learn more: http://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/new-thailand-condominium-act-2008.html

Pretty much as I thought, the initial management is set up by the developer with a crony in as the "Juristic Person", co-owners probably not know their rights to set up a elected management committee and anyone who speaks out or opposes the management/JP gets a hard time.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Basil B

[henry2109]

"Looks like some developers are feeling the heat from Russian buyers who no longer are able to do their payments.

A friend of mine yesterday bought a 34 sqm condo in Siam Oriental Garden Pratamnak

Developers price of 2,4 mio went down to 1.25 mio and foreign name..

Not an impressive condo although brand new and construction almost finished."

I think 37000 Baht per m2 is a good price, and if you like the condo and live in it, it's ok. However, first you have to wait and see how and when it is finished, there are so many things here that go the wrong way, so that could you not only cost you time (and interest), but also additional money. That is why you cannot compare and condo under construction with a finished unit.Further, I wonder how much the transfer cost were (did you pay all or half), and if you paid or have to pay a sinking fund.

The prices for condos in the Pattaya area will come down during the next 3 years, maybe much longer. It is simply a question how much. The oversupply in the market is massive, especially for small units on second and third grade locations. There are still so many units under development or construction. However, over a period of 10 or 20 years, the price for such a condo may go up, but I would not consider the purchase of it as a prime investment.

[kuma]

Just a question, They don't do mortgages for Falang do they ?

I have asked various people and gotten several different answers, I figured I would ask the fourm

Thanks in advance

The color of your skin (and your nationality) is not important.

Farang, Kairk, Jin, Gowlee, Neego, Nippon .........

If you are legally employed in Thailand, then you can get a home loan.

I was not referring to the color of my skin. More my status as a foreigner. What if I am not employed in Thailand, But gainfully employed elsewhere ? What if I were on a retirement visa ?

no chance if you are not employed in Thailand, they need some proof to see that you can afford and pay, they need proof locally...

So it's either Pay cash or get a job ? OR create a company hire myself and pay myself jump through a million hoops, etc, etc

Ok I think it's one of the first two and with the business I work in (freelance) thats not gonna fly. I guess it's door number one. Cash really is King.

Thanks for the answers

Establish a LOC in your home country, if you do not have one yet, and import those funds to buy. Try to feel secure about the investment, which here is a bit tough to do, and become an owner with peace of mind.

[Anthony5]

How about this one. Did they redesign Jomtien bay overnight or am I missing something.

[KittenKong]

I actually rather like the Whale condo, even if they have been busy with Photoshop on the ads.

My main problem with it (apart from the question "will it ever get built") is what will happen to the advertised sea view when they build more small condos on the strip of land in front of it that forms the beach.

The units that have one should keep their river view though, which is not unpleasant.