Health Insurance

[monk213]

Actually the plan is intended for migrant workers and hospitals have been instructed not to issue it to resident expats, and some which had done so, have now cancelled them, while in other places they are refusing to renew. Apparently some parts of the country have not gotten the word and still issue this but be aware that it could be rescinded at any time.

There have been many, many threads about this.

Shame, that sounded like an amazing health plan for expats

[Pimay1]

Actually the plan is intended for migrant workers and hospitals have been instructed not to issue it to resident expats, and some which had done so, have now cancelled them, while in other places they are refusing to renew. Apparently some parts of the country have not gotten the word and still issue this but be aware that it could be rescinded at any time.

There have been many, many threads about this.

I went back and reviewed the previous threads on this. It appears in some geographical locations this plan is still being honored for foreigners. Of course you are correct it could be rescinded at any time. But until if and when that happens I think it is worth an enquiry by anyone interested in the plan. Hopefully I won't have to use it but if I do I will certainlly post the results here.

[partington]

Well here are some words from my English friends.

''My sister is a nhs a&e nurse I can just ask her but I know for a fact if you are a British citizen you are entitled to nhs treatment''

''As long as you a British citizen they will treat you 100%''

Well your English friends and NHS sister is wrong this doent apply to non resident British citizens

They came back about 2 hours later and said that if a UK citizen stays away for 5 years then they will not qualify for the treatment anymore, there were also many more factors but yeah, looks like no more NHS That was maybe one of the only good things going for the UK imo

It's not really a good idea to rely on hearsay from friends who claim to know all about these things - most people make up things based on something they thought they heard ten years ago from a bloke in a pub.

This five year's absence is a typical example: there is no statutory period of absence of five years that removes your entitlement to free NHS care ( the only thing I can think of that has a five year absence period attached to it is obligation to pay tax on capital gains in the UK which expires once you have been absent for five years).

The NHS is a residence based health care system. So as soon as you can prove you are actually resident in the UK you are entitled to free health care. As soon as you become officially non-resident, you are no longer entitled -it's that simple. This is why if you move back permanently you are entitled to health care immediately, but you must be able to show you are not just visiting.

Entitlement to free NHS health care is explained on the UK government site -

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/uk-visitors/Pages/accessing-nhs-services.aspx.

Here is a quote from this site:

"If you need hospital treatment during your stay in the UK, ensure you can provide evidence that you are entitled to free treatment. For ordinary residents, this means showing that you are lawfully and properly settled in the UK (for example, showing a passport/visa plus rental agreements, utility bill, etc)."

[Swiss1960]

BUPA Thailand or Cigna International would be my recommendations. Basically Cgna's lowest level of cover is more than you will ever need in Thailand and BUPA/THailand's levels are way too low except for their top tier plan (Platinum 5 million baht).

While I am in the process of changing over from BUPA to Cigna....

Sheryl

Your comments are helpful as usual and I really like reading your advices on any health issues. As I am about to decide which insurance I will take when i arrive in Thailand (soon), can I ask you two questions about the above excerpt:

1) Why do you say that 5Mio is the the needed level? From BUPA I read that this is the "Overall maximum per disability", which I understand to be per case (i.e. sickness / accident). What kind of case could cause such high fees per case? Just for my understanding

2) From which BUPA plan do you change to which Cigna plan?

Thank you in advance

[cheeryble]

Without having read all the thread it all depends on your situation.

IF repeat IF you have access to funds I believe it is a better option to self insure.

Why?

Insurance co running costs/inefficiency/profit

Hospital charging according to insurance or not

Insurance fraudulently taken by people who have problems

Add to this

You can (usually) shop around for treatment whereas an insured person may just take the most expensive possible.

(I got rabies shots for 1300 baht and 300 baht last year same shot small example but makes my point)

An insured person will take the bag with ALL the meds offered at hospital prices unlike me who checks the meds and often buys from his favourite pharmacist.

Another factor against insurance as most treatment isn't urgent.......

for the NHS and returning home to get payback for all the taxes you paid through your healthy young life.......if you happen to be British I believe it has already been deemed unfair it is all change and we CAN or shortly WILL BE able to return for treatment it's all been discussed and was due to be fully enacted anytime soon.

[monk213]

Without having read all the thread it all depends on your situation.

IF repeat IF you have access to funds I believe it is a better option to self insure.

Why?

Insurance co running costs/inefficiency/profit

Hospital charging according to insurance or not

Insurance fraudulently taken by people who have problems

Add to this

You can (usually) shop around for treatment whereas an insured person may just take the most expensive possible.

(I got rabies shots for 1300 baht and 300 baht last year same shot small example but makes my point)

An insured person will take the bag with ALL the meds offered at hospital prices unlike me who checks the meds and often buys from his favourite pharmacist.

Another factor against insurance as most treatment isn't urgent.......

for the NHS and returning home to get payback for all the taxes you paid through your healthy young life.......if you happen to be British I believe it has already been deemed unfair it is all change and we CAN or shortly WILL BE able to return for treatment it's all been discussed and was due to be fully enacted anytime soon.

Well I have been in South East Asia for nearly 5 years now and without any health or travel insurance, like I have mentioned I have probably racked up around 200k baht in hospital visits in all of that time. I do have funds but it is limited and I am not exactly well off, I am mid 20s fyi. So I have been self funding and it is time to change and the last accident which is going to take AT LEAST 4 months to rectify has sent the message home hard, I need some insurance. there will be legit policies out there and it seems BUPA is the way to go.

[Soutpeel]

Actually the plan is intended for migrant workers and hospitals have been instructed not to issue it to resident expats, and some which had done so, have now cancelled them, while in other places they are refusing to renew. Apparently some parts of the country have not gotten the word and still issue this but be aware that it could be rescinded at any time.

There have been many, many threads about this.

Shame, that sounded like an amazing health plan for expats

But this is the point, it wasn't intended for expats, when this first started there where multiple predictions by numerous people that the plug would get pulled eventually

[Soutpeel]

Honestly, in my opinion, if you are not independently wealthy.....you have to be crazy not to have health insurance here (or anywhere for that matter where quality, free, state provided care is not available).

People that are genuinely independently wealth can afford the insurance and do buy insurance so your logic is flawed

[Soutpeel]

Without having read all the thread it all depends on your situation.

IF repeat IF you have access to funds I believe it is a better option to self insure.

Why?

Insurance co running costs/inefficiency/profit

Hospital charging according to insurance or not

Insurance fraudulently taken by people who have problems

Add to this

You can (usually) shop around for treatment whereas an insured person may just take the most expensive possible.

(I got rabies shots for 1300 baht and 300 baht last year same shot small example but makes my point)

An insured person will take the bag with ALL the meds offered at hospital prices unlike me who checks the meds and often buys from his favourite pharmacist.

Another factor against insurance as most treatment isn't urgent.......

for the NHS and returning home to get payback for all the taxes you paid through your healthy young life.......if you happen to be British I believe it has already been deemed unfair it is all change and we CAN or shortly WILL BE able to return for treatment it's all been discussed and was due to be fully enacted anytime soon.

If you have access to funds self insure ? Assuming you mean pay for it as you go ? And not have a policy, if this is what you mean

What sort of funds should you have access to ? Thb 5 million' thb 10 million what ?

The problem is you don't know what sort of position you could find yourself in and having access to funds may not be enough, a simple road accident could set one back millions of baht if the injuries are bad enough

[JimmyTheMook]

BUPA Thailand - rubbish , had a better than mid level tier plan where family was covered - son has reoccurring strep throat doctor suggested having tonsils out, Bupa denied the claim - claimed it was a preexisting condition.

This after 2 years of paying for decent plan that never once made a claim on, cancelled the plan and received nothing but whiny follow up calls with incentives to reapply.

AXA Thailand - proved much better, they paid claims that arose w/o issue.

http://www.axa.co.th/en

[inbangkok]

Honestly, in my opinion, if you are not independently wealthy.....you have to be crazy not to have health insurance here (or anywhere for that matter where quality, free, state provided care is not available).

People that are genuinely independently wealth can afford the insurance and do buy insurance so your logic is flawed

Oh please.... Stop acting like a child. I know plenty of very rich foreigners here that don't buy insurance because they are healthy. They figure worst comes to worse they will just pay out of pocket for surgery or and accident or whatever........ Just because you don't know people like this does not mean they are not here......

[inbangkok]

I know a guy here who worked for a hedge fund his whole life..... You think he is concerned about having to pay $150,000 in an emergency..... Yeah right.....the guy is loaded! Because that is all most top notch health plans offer....... 5 million baht for an illness or accident. This is not the America where a cut on the finger will make you lose your house if you need treatment and are uninsured. Pleanty of people here can afford the medical costs and choose to take the gamble.

[Soutpeel]

Honestly, in my opinion, if you are not independently wealthy.....you have to be crazy not to have health insurance here (or anywhere for that matter where quality, free, state provided care is not available).

People that are genuinely independently wealth can afford the insurance and do buy insurance so your logic is flawed

Oh please.... Stop acting like a child. I know plenty of very rich foreigners here that don't buy insurance because they are healthy. They figure worst comes to worse they will just pay out of pocket for surgery or and accident or whatever........ Just because you don't know people like this does not mean they are not here......

Jeez the only one acting like child is you, I know plenty of people rich and otherwise and funny enough I don't know the status of whether they have medical insurance or not, its a personal matter, so calling BS on your comments

[Soutpeel]

I know a guy here who worked for a hedge fund his whole life..... You think he is concerned about having to pay $150,000 in an emergency..... Yeah right.....the guy is loaded! Because that is all most top notch health plans offer....... 5 million baht for an illness or accident. This is not the America where a cut on the finger will make you lose your house if you need treatment and are uninsured. Pleanty of people here can afford the medical costs and choose to take the gamble.

Blah blah, you obviously know little of top notch medical plans then in Thailand, mine covers me to the tune of a million quid

You also have no idea what the costs could be in Thailand as you have no idea of what you could be admitted for, your logic is flawed, your responses are childish and you are quite naive dear boy, let me guess you "self insure" ?

Good luck just hope you never end up in a vehicle accident and end up in ICU in Thailand, and you may find out very quickly it aint cheap in Thailand

[inbangkok]

Honestly, in my opinion, if you are not independently wealthy.....you have to be crazy not to have health insurance here (or anywhere for that matter where quality, free, state provided care is not available).

People that are genuinely independently wealth can afford the insurance and do buy insurance so your logic is flawed

Oh please.... Stop acting like a child. I know plenty of very rich foreigners here that don't buy insurance because they are healthy. They figure worst comes to worse they will just pay out of pocket for surgery or and accident or whatever........ Just because you don't know people like this does not mean they are not here......

Jeez the only one acting like child is you, I know plenty of people rich and otherwise and funny enough I don't know the status of whether they have medical insurance or not, its a personal matter, so calling BS on your comments

I know a guy here who worked for a hedge fund his whole life..... You think he is concerned about having to pay $150,000 in an emergency..... Yeah right.....the guy is loaded! Because that is all most top notch health plans offer....... 5 million baht for an illness or accident. This is not the America where a cut on the finger will make you lose your house if you need treatment and are uninsured. Pleanty of people here can afford the medical costs and choose to take the gamble.

Blah blah, you obviously know little of top notch medical plans then in Thailand, mine covers me to the tune of a million quid

You also have no idea what the costs could be in Thailand as you have no idea of what you could be admitted for, your logic is flawed, your response childish and you are quite naive dear boy, let me guess you "self insure" ?

Call BS..... I don't care at all what you think.... And no, I don't self insure..... I have insurance here in Thailand and the USA. Claiming my logic is flawed over me reporting a "fact"... That some self insure..... Well, makes me question if you even know what flawed logic actually means..... None of my post had ANYTHING to do with logic.....nothing!

And starting a sentence off with blah blah blah...... Yeah, you reek of maturity, buddy. Like I said, you should grow up.

[inzman]

I know a guy here who worked for a hedge fund his whole life..... You think he is concerned about having to pay $150,000 in an emergency..... Yeah right.....the guy is loaded! Because that is all most top notch health plans offer....... 5 million baht for an illness or accident. This is not the America where a cut on the finger will make you lose your house if you need treatment and are uninsured. Pleanty of people here can afford the medical costs and choose to take the gamble.

Blah blah, you obviously know little of top notch medical plans then in Thailand, mine covers me to the tune of a million quid

You also have no idea what the costs could be in Thailand as you have no idea of what you could be admitted for, your logic is flawed, your responses are childish and you are quite naive dear boy, let me guess you "self insure" ?

Good luck just hope you never end up in a vehicle accident and end up in ICU in Thailand, and you may find out very quickly it aint cheap in Thailand

Geez, who pissed in your Cheerios! Calm down.

[cheeryble]

Without having read all the thread it all depends on your situation.

IF repeat IF you have access to funds I believe it is a better option to self insure.

Why?

Insurance co running costs/inefficiency/profit

Hospital charging according to insurance or not

Insurance fraudulently taken by people who have problems

Add to this

You can (usually) shop around for treatment whereas an insured person may just take the most expensive possible.

(I got rabies shots for 1300 baht and 300 baht last year same shot small example but makes my point)

An insured person will take the bag with ALL the meds offered at hospital prices unlike me who checks the meds and often buys from his favourite pharmacist.

Another factor against insurance as most treatment isn't urgent.......

for the NHS and returning home to get payback for all the taxes you paid through your healthy young life.......if you happen to be British I believe it has already been deemed unfair it is all change and we CAN or shortly WILL BE able to return for treatment it's all been discussed and was due to be fully enacted anytime soon.

If you have access to funds self insure ? Assuming you mean pay for it as you go ? And not have a policy, if this is what you mean

What sort of funds should you have access to ? Thb 5 million' thb 10 million what ?

The problem is you don't know what sort of position you could find yourself in and having access to funds may not be enough, a simple road accident could set one back millions of baht if the injuries are bad enough

I merely make the point that as well as saving lots of what Warren Buffett would call "friction" involved in insurance normal people with modest effort can save a lot by their choices of pharma and treatment.

These things together mean that IF you have access to funds you can save a lot of money....I'd say well over half.....over those who insure.

Naturally we are speaking stochastically and in averages and one could say there is risk......or the stock market equivalent of "volatility" involved.

But if one has funds one should be able to make a good guesstimate whether or not it's "risk of ruin" in which case insurance may be the only option......at a price.

Risks are there to be weighed up and balanced it's part of life.

No-one can predict everything given the fact that most illnesses do allow time for a little investigation of pricing of treatments.....and the NHS in the UK may be a bolt hole which may help with an expensive illness......this is the choice I made.

[Pimay1]

Actually the plan is intended for migrant workers and hospitals have been instructed not to issue it to resident expats, and some which had done so, have now cancelled them, while in other places they are refusing to renew. Apparently some parts of the country have not gotten the word and still issue this but be aware that it could be rescinded at any time.

There have been many, many threads about this.

I went back and reviewed the previous threads on this. It appears in some geographical locations this plan is still being honored for foreigners. Of course you are correct it could be rescinded at any time. But until if and when that happens I think it is worth an enquiry by anyone interested in the plan. Hopefully I won't have to use it but if I do I will certainlly post the results here.

I returned to the hospital for my first post operation checkup. They did the blood work, I saw the doctor and was given enough medication (seven different kinds) for two months which is my next scheduled checkup. The doctor said everything looked good and I would have to take this medication for one year.

My old girlfriend showed my medical card and the referral papers from the other hospital to the admin office when we arrived. The doctor signed a paper stating the cost of the checkup and medication would be billed back to the referring hospital. I thought I would have to pay the customary 30 Baht but I didn't. It cost me nothing.

[VIPinthailand]

I have no insurance, but will get one at 50.

I m rarely sick. don't smoke, don't drink and I avoid anything dangerous. the thing that scares me the most is being hit by a car when on my scooter.

I have enough money to insure my self but I think with the time I should get an health insurance. (still under a tourist visa).

I have a UK passport but I have never resided in UK.

advice?

[ajahnlau]

I'm with Thai Ins. You must join before 59 but can stay in after that. Pay 14,000 yr. Age is not calculated. Have had 2 major hospital stays and they payed for nearly all.Recognized by numerous private Thai hospitals.

[Swiss1960]

I'm with Thai Ins. You must join before 59 but can stay in after that. Pay 14,000 yr. Age is not calculated. Have had 2 major hospital stays and they payed for nearly all.Recognized by numerous private Thai hospitals.

Do they have a website you could provide please?

[ajahnlau]

www.e-insurethailand,com

[canopus1969]

I'm with Thai Ins. You must join before 59 but can stay in after that. Pay 14,000 yr. Age is not calculated. Have had 2 major hospital stays and they payed for nearly all.Recognized by numerous private Thai hospitals.

Do they have a website you could provide please?

The correct web site is : http://www.thaihealth.co.th/2012/index_eng.php

[chubby]

what would bother me, is the off-chance, that you hit your head, or are somehow incapacitated, and ER care is not given, because no one can produce cash in advance.

not sure how often that happens, but couple that with having no reliable ambulance service, and a minor problem, could become a disaster.....

so, i'd want something with direct payments.

[sup3r1or]

I have been using Krung Thai Axa for about 3 years now. It is pricey but worth every penny. It gives up to 3,000,000 bht inpatient cover and also gives me 35,000 bht outpatient cover per year. It has always covered everything including my hospital surgery at BNH Bangkok. One more great thing is that they pay you 3,000 bht per day while you admit. So if I stayed 5 days, they send me check for 15,000 bht a month after admission.

Right now I pay 1,950 bht per month for it.

[cheeryble]

I have been using Krung Thai Axa for about 3 years now. It is pricey but worth every penny. It gives up to 3,000,000 bht inpatient cover and also gives me 35,000 bht outpatient cover per year. It has always covered everything including my hospital surgery at BNH Bangkok. One more great thing is that they pay you 3,000 bht per day while you admit. So if I stayed 5 days, they send me check for 15,000 bht a month after admission.

Right now I pay 1,950 bht per month for it.

And the all important question: your age?

[sup3r1or]

Im 29 years old and have a history of chronic gastric problems. They test you for common things when you apply. If there isn't anything special with your case it should be fine