Black box signals from crashed AirAsia plane detected

[webfact]

Black box signals from crashed AirAsia plane detected
English.news.cn

JAKARTA, Jan. 9 (Xinhua) -- Signals from the black boxes of an AirAsia jetliner, which crashed in the Java Sea off Indonesia's Central Kalimantan coast, have been detected, Military Commander General Moeldoko said on Friday.

"The location was estimated 300 meters from the initial point," Moeldoko was quoted as saying by the detik.com news website, referring to a location where the tail of Airbus A320-200 was found on Wednesday.

Moeldoko was onboard navy ship Banda Aceh used as a baseship to supervise the operation to lift up the tail, which he said was submerged in the seabed mud.

Seven divers were deployed to check the signals and confirm the position of the black boxes, Moeldoko added.

Flight QZ8501 went down on Dec. 28 en route from Indonesia's second largest city of Surabaya to Singapore with 162 people aboard. So far, 47 bodies have been recovered in a multinational search operation.

Source: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-01/09/c_133907947.htm

-- Xinhua 2015-01-09

[Robby nz]

Great, they must have been able to get the correct gear on site to hear them and a weather window to be able to use them.

Retrieval will still not be easy in the conditions we are told are they have to work in.

[MauiSteveBKK]

Surviving family members -- Black Boxes.

Most important.

I'm sure the families want their loved ones returned soon, and to have some idea

what caused the crash and how their family members died. I'm sorta anxious to know also.

Bless the Families.

Bless those trying to put all the pieces of this horrible incident together.

[ABCer]

Almost two weeks since the disaster!

Whatever the reasons - will not help the victims or families. Will only lead to fingerpointing.

The great 'success' - discovered the 'ping' signals from black box the whole 300m from the tale!

And the depth of 35 -50 m is easily accessible for divers and must be not terribly affected by weather on the surface.

IMHO this is totally inadequate. Either this signal is not strong enough, or the equipment used is near 'deaf'.

Somebody somewhere should go back to the drawing board.

Apparently "shoes off, belts off, drink your water and pass your urine" are cheaper and more impressive measures but not safety effective.

[Lite Beer]

SAR team’s sonar detects AirAsia black boxes

The sonar system of navigation vessel Jadayat detected the AirAsia flight QZ8501 black boxes in the Karimata Strait of the Java Sea near Pangkalan Bun, Central Kalimantan, on Friday, The Jakarta Post reported.

“We can assure you that these are the black boxes from the plane because the sonar system has detected the ping,” Indonesian Military commander Gen Moeldoko said aboard naval vessel KRI Banda Aceh on Friday, as quoted by kontan.co.id.

He said that the black boxes were about 2.4 kilometers from where the tail of the plane was located.

“We have sent six military divers to look for them [the black boxes],” he said.

The black boxes play a crucial part in every aircraft accident and incident investigation as they consist of the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) and Flight Data Recorder (FDR).

Meanwhile, A joint search and rescue (SAR) team recovered on Friday five more bodies of victims of an AirAsia flight that crashed two weeks ago, bringing the number of bodies recovered to 48 on the 13th day of the SAR operation.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/sar-teams-sonar-detects-airasia-black-boxes

-- Thai PBS 2015-01-10

[NeverSure]

If those boxes are that far from where the tail landed, the plane might have broken up in the air.

Edit: The plane could break up from overspeed if the pilot got disoriented and went nose down under power. No conspiracy theory here.

Edited January 10, 2015 by NeverSure

[Robby nz]

Almost two weeks since the disaster!

Whatever the reasons - will not help the victims or families. Will only lead to fingerpointing.

The great 'success' - discovered the 'ping' signals from black box the whole 300m from the tale!

And the depth of 35 -50 m is easily accessible for divers and must be not terribly affected by weather on the surface.

IMHO this is totally inadequate. Either this signal is not strong enough, or the equipment used is near 'deaf'.

Somebody somewhere should go back to the drawing board.

Apparently "shoes off, belts off, drink your water and pass your urine" are cheaper and more impressive measures but not safety effective.

I wonder how many dives of 30 + m you have done ? Going by your post absolutely zero, for you obviously have no idea of going to those depths.

Possibly you should read some more on this subject and try to understand the conditions they have to work in and the specialized equipment needed to detect the black box signals before you give your next opinion.

[THAILIBAN]

 

Almost two weeks since the disaster!

Whatever the reasons - will not help the victims or families. Will only lead to fingerpointing.

The great 'success' - discovered the 'ping' signals from black box the whole 300m from the tale!

And the depth of 35 -50 m is easily accessible for divers and must be not terribly affected by weather on the surface.

IMHO this is totally inadequate. Either this signal is not strong enough, or the equipment used is near 'deaf'.

Somebody somewhere should go back to the drawing board.

Apparently "shoes off, belts off, drink your water and pass your urine" are cheaper and more impressive measures but not safety effective.

 

I rarely read such a rubbish in Thaivisa

[Don Aleman]

Nasa cameras can send back voice & pictures from the moon or Mars so why is it so hard to find a little Orange, ( no, it's not black ), box ?

[Basil B]

Nasa cameras can send back voice & pictures from the moon or Mars so why is it so hard to find a little Orange, ( no, it's not black ), box ?

Continuously???

Wonder what a 3m parabolic dish will do to a planes aerodynamics flying at Mach .83, and it would need some very powerful actuators to point it at a satellite.

Also satellites will need an awful amount of bandwidth to receive thousands of planes all transmitting at the same time and relay the signals back to Earth.

[SteveB2]

Nasa cameras can send back voice & pictures from the moon or Mars so why is it so hard to find a little Orange, ( no, it's not black ), box ?

Continuously???

Wonder what a 3m parabolic dish will do to a planes aerodynamics flying at Mach .83, and it would need some very powerful actuators to point it at a satellite.

Also satellites will need an awful amount of bandwidth to receive thousands of planes all transmitting at the same time and relay the signals back to Earth.

30 years ago your comments would be true.

However, Modern airborne video/FCS communicating over the Military SATCOM system are small enough and agile enough to fit even inside drones such as the Predator UAV. These systems are truly tiny and have minimal effect on aerodynamics (no more than putting a pilot in the aircraft...)

[inzman]

Almost 3 weeks to find a ping 25 meters underwater. Boy , technology is nowhere near what I thought it was. And by the way the body of the plane was located almost complete 10 days ago by sonar.

[ABCer]

Almost two weeks since the disaster!

Whatever the reasons - will not help the victims or families. Will only lead to fingerpointing.

The great 'success' - discovered the 'ping' signals from black box the whole 300m from the tale!

And the depth of 35 -50 m is easily accessible for divers and must be not terribly affected by weather on the surface.

IMHO this is totally inadequate. Either this signal is not strong enough, or the equipment used is near 'deaf'.

Somebody somewhere should go back to the drawing board.

Apparently "shoes off, belts off, drink your water and pass your urine" are cheaper and more impressive measures but not safety effective.

I wonder how many dives of 30 + m you have done ? Going by your post absolutely zero, for you obviously have no idea of going to those depths.

Possibly you should read some more on this subject and try to understand the conditions they have to work in and the specialized equipment needed to detect the black box signals before you give your next opinion.

Robby nz, you are absolutely right! - Zero dives!

But I do know (theoretically) that 50 m depths are perfectly accessible.

I do know that at such depth the weather on the surface is not much felt.

I am sure that professional divers should be able to manage the search.

I was expecting that all possible technical support from Marine Search and Rescue was at hand.

And I maintain my expressed disappointment with results to-date.

Finally, if I am being unreasonable in my expectations re: capabilities of Search and Rescue than

I simply must be right in criticizing the costly but ineffective "safety measures" I am forced to pay for as a passenger.

[Soutpeel]

Almost two weeks since the disaster!

Whatever the reasons - will not help the victims or families. Will only lead to fingerpointing.

The great 'success' - discovered the 'ping' signals from black box the whole 300m from the tale!

And the depth of 35 -50 m is easily accessible for divers and must be not terribly affected by weather on the surface.

IMHO this is totally inadequate. Either this signal is not strong enough, or the equipment used is near 'deaf'.

Somebody somewhere should go back to the drawing board.

Apparently "shoes off, belts off, drink your water and pass your urine" are cheaper and more impressive measures but not safety effective.

I wonder how many dives of 30 + m you have done ? Going by your post absolutely zero, for you obviously have no idea of going to those depths.

Possibly you should read some more on this subject and try to understand the conditions they have to work in and the specialized equipment needed to detect the black box signals before you give your next opinion.

Robby nz, you are absolutely right! - Zero dives!

But I do know (theoretically) that 50 m depths are perfectly accessible.

I do know that at such depth the weather on the surface is not much felt.

I am sure that professional divers should be able to manage the search.

I was expecting that all possible technical support from Marine Search and Rescue was at hand.

And I maintain my expressed disappointment with results to-date.

Finally, if I am being unreasonable in my expectations re: capabilities of Search and Rescue than

I simply must be right in criticizing the costly but ineffective "safety measures" I am forced to pay for as a passenger.

50m water depths on air are accessible but there is very little bottom time on air, without looking at the tables maybe 15-20 minutes, even at this depth saturation diving would be the preferred to have bottom time to allow the divers to work, yes the weather may not be felt at 50m but you still have to get the divers through the "splash zone" from the surface to 50m, that's where it is dangerous for them

[Basil B]

Nasa cameras can send back voice & pictures from the moon or Mars so why is it so hard to find a little Orange, ( no, it's not black ), box ?

Continuously???

Wonder what a 3m parabolic dish will do to a planes aerodynamics flying at Mach .83, and it would need some very powerful actuators to point it at a satellite.

Also satellites will need an awful amount of bandwidth to receive thousands of planes all transmitting at the same time and relay the signals back to Earth.

30 years ago your comments would be true.

However, Modern airborne video/FCS communicating over the Military SATCOM system are small enough and agile enough to fit even inside drones such as the Predator UAV. These systems are truly tiny and have minimal effect on aerodynamics (no more than putting a pilot in the aircraft...)

I do not know how many Ghz and KW's that dish works at but I sure do not want it pointing at me while over flying the poles...

Many of the newer aircraft are fitted with ADS-B a virtual radar system that transmits Position, Heading, Altitude, Ground Speed and other information that are sent in short radio bursts of 120uS at one second intervals, which are picked buy satellites and ground stations, but this is no good if the unit is disabled or loses power, and at present not all aircraft are fitted with it (though the FAA has dictated all aircraft shall have it by the year 2020) and already suffers lose of data due to FRUIT (False Replies Unsynchronized with Interrogator Transmissions).

There is no way that this system would be able to carry all data parameters that is currently stored in the black boxes, also the military satcom system probably only handle a hand full of flights and nothing like the thousands of commercial flights that are in the air at anyone time.

I have a far cheaper answer and that is "Micro Black Boxes" one or multiple SD cards mounted in a small protective box about the size of a mobile phone, 4 of them, one inside each wing tip and top of the vertical stabilizer, and one in the cockpit, , to be used in conjunction with the conventional black boxes.

[Jay Sata]

ADS-B is the system that allows sites such as Flightradar 24 to display aircraft location in real time.

A similar system is employed on most,ships.

The Air Asia aircraft was equipped with ADS.

[Basil B]

Who needs flightradar24?

Just an antenna and a box plugged into a computer...

Can pick up over 100 aircraft at a range of over 400Km

[Basil B]

One black box found...

"On Jan 11th 2015 Indonesia's Ministry of Transport announced, that one of the black boxes of flight QZ-8501 has been located at position S3.6225 E109.7144 at about 30-32 meters below the sea surface. Divers attached a small marker buoy at the object identified as one of the black boxes of the aircraft. In a meeting on Jan 12th it will be decided whether the entire part of the fuselage or just the black box will be recovered."

http://avherald.com/h?article=47f6abc7&opt=0 The Aviation Herald

[F430murci]

This picture is alarming. Looks like tail section just ripped off in a very unusual manner. Flat spin caused by one engine shutting down and very low speed in high altitude turbulence? Flat spin could potentially disable pilots I would think. How many Gs would flat spin generate?

[Basil B]

This picture is alarming. Looks like tail section just ripped off in a very unusual manner. Flat spin caused by one engine shutting down and very low speed in high altitude turbulence? Flat spin could potentially disable pilots I would think. How many Gs would flat spin generate?

I do not know the source of your graphics, and I doubt anything to do with a flat spin.

IMHO it is consistent with rapid deceleration, when the plane stopped the tail continued moving forward...

If you look at the photo with the female photographer ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30773782 ) note how the "toe" of the vertical stabilizer seems bent up, consistent with the VS "cartwheeling" forward.

[ocejanic]

blackbox retrieved.

[canman]

Almost two weeks since the disaster!

Whatever the reasons - will not help the victims or families. Will only lead to fingerpointing.

The great 'success' - discovered the 'ping' signals from black box the whole 300m from the tale!

And the depth of 35 -50 m is easily accessible for divers and must be not terribly affected by weather on the surface.

IMHO this is totally inadequate. Either this signal is not strong enough, or the equipment used is near 'deaf'.

Somebody somewhere should go back to the drawing board.

Apparently "shoes off, belts off, drink your water and pass your urine" are cheaper and more impressive measures but not safety effective.

I wonder how many dives of 30 + m you have done ? Going by your post absolutely zero, for you obviously have no idea of going to those depths.

Possibly you should read some more on this subject and try to understand the conditions they have to work in and the specialized equipment needed to detect the black box signals before you give your next opinion.

Robby nz, you are absolutely right! - Zero dives!

But I do know (theoretically) that 50 m depths are perfectly accessible.

I do know that at such depth the weather on the surface is not much felt.

I am sure that professional divers should be able to manage the search.

I was expecting that all possible technical support from Marine Search and Rescue was at hand.

And I maintain my expressed disappointment with results to-date.

Finally, if I am being unreasonable in my expectations re: capabilities of Search and Rescue than

I simply must be right in criticizing the costly but ineffective "safety measures" I am forced to pay for as a passenger.

50m is accessible on air but not effective, your bottom time is measured in minutes and then you have long deco stops. Commercial divers mostly do not dive below 45 m on air. After 45m usually it would be saturation diving which would not have bottom time limitations. This recovery effort is being run by the Indonesian navy and I doubt they have a saturation dive spread on the job.

[Chicog]

An AirAsia jet which crashed with 162 people on board is likely to have exploded before it hit the sea, according to salvage experts - but other investigators have disputed the claim.

S.B. Supriyadi, a director with the Indonesian national search and rescue agency, said wreckage analysis suggested it had broken apart because the cabin could not adapt to pressure charge caused by the steep descent.

http://news.sky.com/story/1406139/airasia-flight-8501-exploded-before-impact