Hi, a few questions about working in universities...

[VRWC]

Greetings all;

Longtime lurker, first time writer here. I've been considering making the move to Thailand for some time now- winters are just not my style any more. Anyway, here is my situation;

Currently work for a private university in Japan (more than 5 years), total of 20 years' teaching experience here

MEd with TESOL certification

Presentations and Publications (about 10 and 3 respectively)

I'm hitting that stage in life where my son is in university himself, I have no financial worries, time to start thinking about slowing down a bit.

What are my options for Thailand? Ideally I would like the same kind of position. Location isn't terribly important to me. Just a nice 'sunset' type of job to carry me through to retirement, pension, and leisure.

Any advice or hints would be much appreciated.

[casualbiker]

Any university would like you. Not sure the students would be the same! Are your Japanese students responsive and inquiring?

[zeichen]

I think that I met you on a plane last summer. If not you are identical situation.

There are very few tenure track positions here for foreigners.

Any school will hire you. However, if you are really just looking for a low impact job so that you can retire, you might not last long. Schools are quite demanding and ridiculous. Management have serious issues with respecting their teaching staff. some universities are even encouraging their foreign staff to get their title. Sorry cannot use past publications.

They pay is low at Universities. Depending on personality and how well you work in a Thai system, you could get managment positions which pay almost double.

You will want to find an English department that has Education as their focus otherwise you won't get the better jobs. Education degree doesn't help you teach literature and the best schools don't recognize TEFL certificates as highly as advanced degrees.

On average you can expect around 30k baht a month. The best universities with better staff tend to be in BKK and you could possibly earn 40-50k baht a month. You do earn it though. Mandatory meetings, lots of free help for editing. The worst is when they ask for your help to edit their work and you spend hours on it and they get a grant but don't pay you.

Overall, you will find a position without a doubt. What is not certain is if you will like it though. I hate working here. Working abroad I save 2-3 times what I even earn here, longer vacations, health care that means something. Here sometimes you have to pay for your own visas.

[scorecard]

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I think that I met you on a plane last summer. If not you are identical situation.

There are very few tenure track positions here for foreigners.

Any school will hire you. However, if you are really just looking for a low impact job so that you can retire, you might not last long. Schools are quite demanding and ridiculous. Management have serious issues with respecting their teaching staff. some universities are even encouraging their foreign staff to get their title. Sorry cannot use past publications.

They pay is low at Universities. Depending on personality and how well you work in a Thai system, you could get managment positions which pay almost double.

You will want to find an English department that has Education as their focus otherwise you won't get the better jobs. Education degree doesn't help you teach literature and the best schools don't recognize TEFL certificates as highly as advanced degrees.

On average you can expect around 30k baht a month. The best universities with better staff tend to be in BKK and you could possibly earn 40-50k baht a month. You do earn it though. Mandatory meetings, lots of free help for editing. The worst is when they ask for your help to edit their work and you spend hours on it and they get a grant but don't pay you.

Overall, you will find a position without a doubt. What is not certain is if you will like it though. I hate working here. Working abroad I save 2-3 times what I even earn here, longer vacations, health care that means something. Here sometimes you have to pay for your own visas.

I don't agree with several items in this post.

The situation re English language teachers at Thai universities changes uni by uni.

I'm aware of Thai universities which pay more a lot more than 30,000Baht a month. In most cases payment is by the hour and depending on what courses you have been invited to teach per semester.

Work permits also vary from uni to uni. Some don't provide WPs and are not interested in this subject, others are very serious about this subject and help with the various documents etc., however from my experience the teacher usually pays all WP fees.

Foreigner gaining a management position in Thai unis. Well anything is possible but I've never seen this and have some doubts.

[zeichen]

"I don't agree with several items in this post."

Really, because you seem to reiterate many things that I said.

Salary, I stated average (which implies some pay more, ie. exactly what you said) I also stated that there were positions paying 40-50k starting salary. Perhaps you are confusing how much you earn with starting salaries. After building a network there are many possibilites but often it isn't dependant on one's skills as a teacher but how well you work with the Thai system. The OP only has a Masters not a PhD. Government universities have salary caps and a very clear distinction for what full time teachers can earn based on degree and experience. Yes, part time can earn more but you also aren't paid for holidays or down time so it actually balances out.

We both agree on visas and work permits. I said sometimes, you said sometimes. But since you seem to be a freelancer your experience is pay your own, but full time is usually treated differently.

As for management positions. Be honest how many universities are you affiliated with? Just because you have worked at 4-5 or even 10 universities do you actually know teaching staff in all departments? Or the management, deans, board of directors at any of them?

If you work in the English department chances are you don't know the staff in the engineering department.

Assumption University had 2 foreign staff in departmental management positions.

I know of at leats 10 different foreign teachers that have the title of full professor or associate professor. I also know of at least 5 foreign teachers that are in management positions in different departments at different universities.

In my experience management positions don't pay enough for the amount of hassle and if you are not fully able to do things the Thai way, you will be shut out quickly.

[casualbiker]

"I don't agree with several items in this post."

Really, because you seem to reiterate many things that I said.

Salary, I stated average (which implies some pay more, ie. exactly what you said) I also stated that there were positions paying 40-50k starting salary. Perhaps you are confusing how much you earn with starting salaries. After building a network there are many possibilites but often it isn't dependant on one's skills as a teacher but how well you work with the Thai system. The OP only has a Masters not a PhD. Government universities have salary caps and a very clear distinction for what full time teachers can earn based on degree and experience. Yes, part time can earn more but you also aren't paid for holidays or down time so it actually balances out.

We both agree on visas and work permits. I said sometimes, you said sometimes. But since you seem to be a freelancer your experience is pay your own, but full time is usually treated differently.

As for management positions. Be honest how many universities are you affiliated with? Just because you have worked at 4-5 or even 10 universities do you actually know teaching staff in all departments? Or the management, deans, board of directors at any of them?

If you work in the English department chances are you don't know the staff in the engineering department.

Assumption University had 2 foreign staff in departmental management positions.

I know of at leats 10 different foreign teachers that have the title of full professor or associate professor. I also know of at least 5 foreign teachers that are in management positions in different departments at different universities.

In my experience management positions don't pay enough for the amount of hassle and if you are not fully able to do things the Thai way, you will be shut out quickly.

For someone that doesn't work in Thailand you know lots of people that do work here (I did note from a previous post that you hate working in Thailand) . You must be an excellent networker!

Perhaps you could spend some time giving constructive advice here on TV rather than scathing judgmental advice.

Just a thought!

[zeichen]

"Any university would like you. Not sure the students would be the same!"

"Perhaps you could spend some time giving constructive advice here on TV rather than scathing judgmental advice.

Just a thought!"

Hello pot, this is kettle, you are black.

First of all, I have taught in Thailand for over 12 years at every type of school there is. No I don't prefer working here compared to many of the neighboring countries. I occassionally find excellent positions but they are not tenure track and usually don't help build my career. I have taught in the US for 3 years, Japan for 1, Korea for 4, China for 1. I have also done workshops and short term stints in about 8 other countries. I am a career educator.

Just because I prefer working in other countries where the pay is nearly 4-5 times more doesn't mean that I don't work well when I am here.

By the was casual biker where do you teach or are you another armchair expert?

[casualbiker]

Firstly the reference to students was that the students here probably weren't as good as Japan. Secondly I work in a private Catholic school teaching English conversation to mattayom students and have done for 7 years, previous to that 2 years in government school.

As you are a career educator I would have thought that you would try and be more helpful!

[VRWC]

Hi casualbiker;

The students I teach here are a real mixed bag. My English major students are often rather inquisitive and alert, and lots of fun to teach. However, students who are not language majors can be, shall we say, problematic. Not surprising since most of the time they do not choose to study English: rather it is a compulsory course. Those classes run the gamut from politely engaged to comatose.

What would I run into in Thailand?

[casualbiker]

VRWC. I haven't taught in a university so can only go on my mattayom students and information from other teachers and it's pretty much the same. Some students have great enthusiasm for English others nothing at all, and of course the middle ground that you can bring on with some fun classes. Fun seems to be the byword here in Thailand.

[zeichen]

Surprsingly English Majors don't usually have the best communicative ability. In my experience Med student,s Engineers, Accounting majors tend to be the best. Art students typically are the worst and with the worst attitudes but if you can turn the content into things they can build on from their other skill sets you can make any class work.

Thai university students are probably the most polite I have ever taught. Korean Uni students tend to be slightly more confrontational. Japanese students fall somewhere in the middle.

I am certain that you will enjoy being in the classroom here. Dealing with office politics and mis management of foreign staff will take some getting used to. If you are just keeping busy, part time would be better off. It might be hard to work the same hours you are now or even more for 1/5th the pay.

[SheungWan]

If you want to slow down a bit and at the same time work in the university sector then it would be better to firstly have a PhD, secondly be research active and thirdly be an asset prestige acquisition to any department that wants to recruit you. Fourthly, a new institution would want you to undertake some new project on their behalf eg set up a research centre for your first two years, so any idea of slowing down as you put it is out of the window. Those who engineer an 'ahem imperceptible slowdown are usually those who have been well-established in their home university department for a significant number of years and have the authority of a senior position to position themselves for the rundown. The Thailand tilt is more likely to tip you into being another gerbil on the wheel just like all the others. Why don't you just call it a day?