Teaching vs Curriculum Building

[elVagabundo]

Hello all,
I started a new teaching job in BKK last month. I was told originally that there would be lesson plans, syllabus, etc. and that I would only need to adjust them for my students needs, prepare materials and execute them. Unfortunately this is not the case and the school really doesn't have much of anything besides students.

My boss told me, with a smile of course, in response to my questioning in regards to the missing textbooks, that I should just be creative and figure out what the students want/need as I go along (and to be sure it was fun).

Give me a text and some sort of guideline/timeline of what I should be teaching and I can do it. I feel quite confident in my ability to adapt texts and lesson plans to the needs of my students. I can handle behavior management and over the past year or two have learned many "best practices" from other teachers and books in terms of teaching techniques and strategies.

But right now... well, I feel like a deer in the headlights.
I've been getting by the past few weeks, but I feel like my boss has pretty much just asked me to BS my way through the semester.
I don't consider myself to be in the BS business, but in the teaching business.

The Admin was even kind enough to tell me that "previous teachers with NO EXPERIENCE just smiled and said, 'no problem!'". Well no S*** they did. I bet they just had a great time BSing their way through it.

I feel like a race car driver who has all of a sudden been asked to build their own car. I'm perfectly capable of driving it, tuning it up and doing minor servicing... but building the whole thing? Forget about it.

I'm not posting because I need to be told to quit or anything of the sort (I'm staying for other reasons)... I'm posting because I hope someone can give me a reality check (though it may hurt) and to check if I'm still sane.

Does not being able to teach without guidelines make me a terrible teacher?
Is there a difference between building your own curriculum and teaching?

Thank you!

[Gulfsailor]

I agree 100% percent with you. It's the same as hiring a builder and asking him to build you a house without first hiring an architect and engineer. The builder wouldn't know where to start. A teacher is not an educational scientist and should not be expected to develop his own curriculum. Unfortunately this is often the case though in Thailand with foreign teachers asked to teach English, hence the abysmal results.

[casualbiker]

I agree 100% percent with you. It's the same as hiring a builder and asking him to build you a house without first hiring an architect and engineer. The builder wouldn't know where to start. A teacher is not an educational scientist and should not be expected to develop his own curriculum. Unfortunately this is often the case though in Thailand with foreign teachers asked to teach English, hence the abysmal results.

This is Thailand, builders build like that every day.

OP. What years do you teach. Prathom or Mattayom?

[lostinisaan]

" Give me a text and some sort of guideline/timeline of what I should be teaching and I can do it. I feel quite confident in my ability to adapt texts and lesson plans to the needs of my students. I can handle behavior management and over the past year or two have learned many "best practices" from other teachers and books in terms of teaching techniques and strategies."

Welcome to the Windmill Fighting Club !!

Being a teacher in Thailand can be pretty much difficult. What age group do you teach? How "good" ( actually I mean bad) is their English? Do they even understand your slang? Do you know that Thai students never tell you that they didn't get you?

If they don't understand basic English, teach them basic English. Start with stuff that has something to do with them and their environment. Teach them different ways how to introduce yourself, favorite school subjects, foods, sports, etc..

I guess many of us went through that and there's no "do this" , or "do that" advice which works for everybody. Please keep in mind that they won't listen to you, if you don't create lessons where they learn and have fun.

This might sound much easier than it actually is. You'll find plenty of teaching material online. Please check websites such as busyteacher ( you only have to register to be able to download worksheets), or boggles world, etc................

​ Let's take your statement here:

" I feel like a race car driver who has all of a sudden been asked to build their own car. I'm perfectly capable of driving it, tuning it up and doing minor servicing... but building the whole thing? Forget about it."

Using your example, you're not capable of tuning your race car up, or doing minor servicing, if the race car would be a school now.

There're certain things that make somebody to a teacher. You'll need psychological skills, as well as knowledge how to deal with 55 kids in a classroom without a fan.

Non functioning copy machines and no internet is sometimes the norm. You might have to run an English camp alone, where nobody will tell you anything, where you'll have only one day time to prepare all for 999 kids...

Once you've understood that, you might be able to tune your sports car, in this case give good lessons to students, based on their knowledge.

​ How could you have learned how to solve behavioral problems from "other teachers", if you didn't teach these kids?

Please don't see my post as criticism, it's just the truth and you're really not alone in the Land of Smiles.

Wish you some good ideas to find the right way to build your own race car. -

.

Edited January 9, 2015 by lostinisaan

[elVagabundo]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I agree 100% percent with you. It's the same as hiring a builder and asking him to build you a house without first hiring an architect and engineer. The builder wouldn't know where to start. A teacher is not an educational scientist and should not be expected to develop his own curriculum. Unfortunately this is often the case though in Thailand with foreign teachers asked to teach English, hence the abysmal results.

Yeaa. A kindred spirit. Perhaps I am still a bit sane.

I agree 100% percent with you. It's the same as hiring a builder and asking him to build you a house without first hiring an architect and engineer. The builder wouldn't know where to start. A teacher is not an educational scientist and should not be expected to develop his own curriculum. Unfortunately this is often the case though in Thailand with foreign teachers asked to teach English, hence the abysmal results.

This is Thailand, builders build like that every day.

OP. What years do you teach. Prathom or Mattayom?

Yes, yes they do . lol
Mines a bit mixed, but mostly Prathom.

" Give me a text and some sort of guideline/timeline of what I should be teaching and I can do it. I feel quite confident in my ability to adapt texts and lesson plans to the needs of my students. I can handle behavior management and over the past year or two have learned many "best practices" from other teachers and books in terms of teaching techniques and strategies."

Welcome to the Windmill Fighting Club !!

Being a teacher in Thailand can be pretty much difficult. What age group do you teach? How "good" ( actually I mean bad) is their English? Do they even understand your slang? Do you know that Thai students never tell you that they didn't get you?

If they don't understand basic English, teach them basic English. Start with stuff that has something to do with them and their environment. Teach them different ways how to introduce yourself, favorite school subjects, foods, sports, etc..

I guess many of us went through that and there's no "do this" , or "do that" advice which works for everybody. Please keep in mind that they won't listen to you, if you don't create lessons where they learn and have fun.

This might sound much easier than it actually is. You'll find plenty of teaching material online. Please check websites such as busyteacher ( you only have to register to be able to download worksheets), or boggles world, etc................

​ Let's take your statement here:

" I feel like a race car driver who has all of a sudden been asked to build their own car. I'm perfectly capable of driving it, tuning it up and doing minor servicing... but building the whole thing? Forget about it."

Using your example, you're not capable of tuning your race car up, or doing minor servicing, if the race car would be a school now.

There're certain things that make somebody to a teacher. You'll need psychological skills, as well as knowledge how to deal with 55 kids in a classroom without a fan.

Non functioning copy machines and no internet is sometimes the norm. You might have to run an English camp alone, where nobody will tell you anything, where you'll have only one day time to prepare all for 999 kids...

Once you've understood that, you might be able to tune your sports car, in this case give good lessons to students, based on their knowledge.

​ How could you have learned how to solve behavioral problems from "other teachers", if you didn't teach these kids?

Please don't see my post as criticism, it's just the truth and you're really not alone in the Land of Smiles.

Wish you some good ideas to find the right way to build your own race car. - alt=wai2.gif width=20 height=20>

No offense taken lostinisaan. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply with such an honest, but strangely encouraging response. It was a good reminder that, for better or for worse, this is a path well traveled. It's nice to know I'm not alone. Thanks for the tips on the websites as well. I will definitely check them out.

Edited January 9, 2015 by elVagabundo

[casualbiker]

Maybe find a set of books and request the management buy a set for you. Just use copies

Superkids seems good

Edited January 10, 2015 by casualbiker

[Scott]

A post critical of grammar has been removed.

Please stay on topic.

[Scott]

Teaching without a curriculum is like first aide. It works in an emergency, but without proper medical care, a patient may die.

The curriculum needs to transcend one grade and one teacher. Ideas, concepts, grammar, phonics and spelling need to be taught in an orderly fashion. There needs to be a goal of what is to be achieved and a systematic approach in place.

[casualbiker]

Teaching without a curriculum is like first aide. It works in an emergency, but without proper medical care, a patient may die.

The curriculum needs to transcend one grade and one teacher. Ideas, concepts, grammar, phonics and spelling need to be taught in an orderly fashion. There needs to be a goal of what is to be achieved and a systematic approach in place.

And when Thailand and the MOE realize this it will be a wonderful day :-D

Or maybe it just the foreign teachers that don't get a curriculum to work from!

Edited January 10, 2015 by casualbiker

[otherstuff1957]

There is an official Thai School Curriculum for every grade and subject, and there are English translations available. It is vague, prolix and manages to convey remarkably little useful information considering it's length.

Needless to say, most textbooks written in western countries will only vaguely conform with the the Thai curriculum. So, if your school does choose to provide you with a curriculum you may find a whole new set of headaches!

I recently started to use an M1 Science book that was published by a company called Pelangi and theoretically matches the official Thai curriculum (I haven't sat down and compared the content with the Thai curriculum to verify this, but admin and the MOE both seem to think that it's a good match). They publish books for several subjects and for all grades. However, I am rather hesitant to recommend them as the book I am using has some serious flaws.

It was written by Malaysian teachers and so the English is fine, and the individual chapters are usually well organized and well written, but the overall editing is awful. Some chapters are short and easy, others are very long and contain M5 or M6 level subject matter. While I wouldn't go so far as to call it a total disaster, it certainly is not as well-written and easy to teach from as the Singaporean books that I have been using.

[SOTIRIOS]

....I was promised a long-term teaching post at a university....

....no books....

...I essentially submitted the curriculum and material for at least 2 semesters......

...then they made the conditions unacceptable/unbearable......

...they got what they wanted.....I got shafted....

...no place for being conscientious..........no place for morals.....

....that is why the educational system gets nowhere.....

...no accountability......all for convenience....personal gain.......image...promotion...usually of the 'heads' of the departments in question...

...prepare yourself.....

[joespnet]

There is an official Thai School Curriculum for every grade and subject, and there are English translations available. It is vague, prolix and manages to convey remarkably little useful information considering it's length.

Needless to say, most textbooks written in western countries will only vaguely conform with the the Thai curriculum. So, if your school does choose to provide you with a curriculum you may find a whole new set of headaches!

I recently started to use an M1 Science book that was published by a company called Pelangi and theoretically matches the official Thai curriculum (I haven't sat down and compared the content with the Thai curriculum to verify this, but admin and the MOE both seem to think that it's a good match). They publish books for several subjects and for all grades. However, I am rather hesitant to recommend them as the book I am using has some serious flaws.

It was written by Malaysian teachers and so the English is fine, and the individual chapters are usually well organized and well written, but the overall editing is awful. Some chapters are short and easy, others are very long and contain M5 or M6 level subject matter. While I wouldn't go so far as to call it a total disaster, it certainly is not as well-written and easy to teach from as the Singaporean books that I have been using.

Thank you, otherstuff1957. Do you know where the Thai School Curriculum is available, preferably both Thai and English versions? I've been trying to find out if there is an official set of standards, so this is good news.

Thanks in advance.

[KhnomKhnom]

Now you are getting the idea of English teaching in MANY "schools." Students go because parents send them, they dislike reading, are impatient with learning, have many other better things to do, and yet will sit politely, enduring the classes.

Teaching English to foreign speakers, especially those so very far from English, is a long slow process of numbing repetition, strong discipline to stick with it, and awareness that you will fail at least 90% of the time.

Teaching English is a very complex skill and technique that is more difficult than teaching how to weld metal or such technical things. In my 30+ teaching career, not English to foreigners, I have met one very competent teacher, fortunately teaching my Thai wife. I taught English grammar to native English speakers and THAT was a hard pull; obtaining fluency of over 30% is a teacher worth gold. But they are not just floating around Thailand looking for a job to pay the bills.

Thai person, if you want to attain fifty percent fluency at least, devote five to eight hours/day for two years, 5 day weeks.

BTW, same for learning Thai.

[smotherb]

I agree 100% percent with you. It's the same as hiring a builder and asking him to build you a house without first hiring an architect and engineer. The builder wouldn't know where to start. A teacher is not an educational scientist and should not be expected to develop his own curriculum. Unfortunately this is often the case though in Thailand with foreign teachers asked to teach English, hence the abysmal results.

So, you expect to be micro-managed,given lesson plans, and daily work schedules. No wonder the pay is so low.

[Mousehound]

I don't see what the problem is. As a teacher I expect to develop the curriculum myself, write the programmes and develop the lesson plans as well as develop feedback strategies and marking schedules. On top of this I draw up daily lesson plans. All I get initially is the overall topics that need to be covered. That is why I work a 60hr+ week.

[culicine]

Teaching without a curriculum is like first aide. It works in an emergency, but without proper medical care, a patient may die.

The curriculum needs to transcend one grade and one teacher. Ideas, concepts, grammar, phonics and spelling need to be taught in an orderly fashion. There needs to be a goal of what is to be achieved and a systematic approach in place.

And when Thailand and the MOE realize this it will be a wonderful day :-D

Or maybe it just the foreign teachers that don't get a curriculum to work from!

There is a basic education curriculum supplied by the MoE but it is rather vague and broad, not just in english but also other subjects. We use jump aboard in the primary years, and another more advanced book in high school. For maths / science, there are actually already books produced for primary and lower secondary school, though personally they don't go into enough depth. This is in an EP though, so the jump abroad series may be too advanced for equivalent government school kids. I would definitely follow a book series, but not slavishly. Use it as a base, as it has a structure to it, You can add relevant extra material/d projects, as necessary..

[connda]

Just some advice for those with not much interview experience, or who are desperate for a job. The interview process is a two-way street. The potential employer gets a chance to ask questions of you, and in a normal interview with a legit school, you should be asking questions too. Ask about the curriculum, ask to see the books, lesson plans, and any documentation relevant to teaching the class. Ask to shadow a class. Ask to talk to fellow instructors. Ask about expectation, yours and theirs, and before you sign a contact, come to a meeting of minds. Don't like the contract? Fine, write specific conditions that you expect the school to adhere to. Contracts go two ways. If it becomes too much of a headache and they start acting confused, hostile, impatient -- keep your cool, keep smiling, negotiate, but at the end of the day if you and your prospective employer can't come to terms -- open the door and leave. Do it nicely, even leave a business card in case they wish to call back. But if they lied to you and can't follow through on promises and guarantees, you better have it in writing or you should never had signed the contract. If thing don't go well, check the terms of the contract. Most contracts specify that either you or the employer can cancel the contract after giving appropriate written notification, usually within 2 week to 30 days. Make sure that your contract contains a specific 'Termination Clause'. If things just don't work, hand in a resignation letter, keep a signed receipt, and on the day listed in your letter - quit.

Edited January 11, 2015 by connda

[connda]

I don't see what the problem is. As a teacher I expect to develop the curriculum myself, write the programmes and develop the lesson plans as well as develop feedback strategies and marking schedules. On top of this I draw up daily lesson plans. All I get initially is the overall topics that need to be covered. That is why I work a 60hr+ week.

At a minimum, you should be given 1) a list of objectives to be achieved at the level you are teaching, and 2) a set of books and supporting course materials. If you have that much, some enthusiasm, and analytical skill-sets, at the end of the course you will have a fully written curriculum, course notes, and lesson plans. The first time you go though it, it's tough. After that, you're refining what you developed. And that's the dedication it takes to be a teacher. Some people love it (I do), some people, not so much. Not everybody makes good teachers. It can be challenging, but really rewarding too!

Edited January 11, 2015 by connda

[Bakeman]

The agency that you went through to get the position should have lesson plans available at a small fee for the proper age group. If not you went through the wrong agency and must build them yourself.

[aarontendo]

I had this same stuff happen my entire time in Korean public schools. No materials, was told day one "you're the foreigner figure it out". Nice.

Much happier to be in a school where we have a curriculum in place, alignment between grades, yadda yaddda yadda. When in doubt teach the curriculum to fidelity.

Sorry to hear this OP, wish I had better advice but it seems previous teachers were probably happy fun time. Welcome to the shit.

[aarontendo]

I agree 100% percent with you. It's the same as hiring a builder and asking him to build you a house without first hiring an architect and engineer. The builder wouldn't know where to start. A teacher is not an educational scientist and should not be expected to develop his own curriculum. Unfortunately this is often the case though in Thailand with foreign teachers asked to teach English, hence the abysmal results.

So, you expect to be micro-managed,given lesson plans, and daily work schedules. No wonder the pay is so low.

Pretty sure he'd be happy with a curriculum. This means student books and a teachers guide. Supplemental materials such as workbooks, overheads, ppt files, CD-roms, and all that jazz is nice as well.

Hint: Teaching jobs back home supply those to teachers.

I know it must be a shock.

[otherstuff1957]

There is an official Thai School Curriculum for every grade and subject, and there are English translations available. It is vague, prolix and manages to convey remarkably little useful information considering it's length.

Needless to say, most textbooks written in western countries will only vaguely conform with the the Thai curriculum. So, if your school does choose to provide you with a curriculum you may find a whole new set of headaches!

I recently started to use an M1 Science book that was published by a company called Pelangi and theoretically matches the official Thai curriculum (I haven't sat down and compared the content with the Thai curriculum to verify this, but admin and the MOE both seem to think that it's a good match). They publish books for several subjects and for all grades. However, I am rather hesitant to recommend them as the book I am using has some serious flaws.

It was written by Malaysian teachers and so the English is fine, and the individual chapters are usually well organized and well written, but the overall editing is awful. Some chapters are short and easy, others are very long and contain M5 or M6 level subject matter. While I wouldn't go so far as to call it a total disaster, it certainly is not as well-written and easy to teach from as the Singaporean books that I have been using.

Thank you, otherstuff1957. Do you know where the Thai School Curriculum is available, preferably both Thai and English versions? I've been trying to find out if there is an official set of standards, so this is good news.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry for the late response, I don't check these threads often.

http://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Facademic.obec.go.th%2Fweb%2Fdoc%2Fd%2F147&ei=3q60VMTlFJbluQTVmYKQAw&usg=AFQjCNHLy5QYWd1h1sMbuKcn_48BDnZEMA&sig2=tj8UE_EMv9QukD7mL6lxUQ&bvm=bv.83339334,d.c2E

The link will take you to a nearly 300 page PDF file, so you might want to download rather than just open the link.

[smotherb]

I agree 100% percent with you. It's the same as hiring a builder and asking him to build you a house without first hiring an architect and engineer. The builder wouldn't know where to start. A teacher is not an educational scientist and should not be expected to develop his own curriculum. Unfortunately this is often the case though in Thailand with foreign teachers asked to teach English, hence the abysmal results.

So, you expect to be micro-managed,given lesson plans, and daily work schedules. No wonder the pay is so low.

Pretty sure he'd be happy with a curriculum. This means student books and a teachers guide. Supplemental materials such as workbooks, overheads, ppt files, CD-roms, and all that jazz is nice as well.

Hint: Teaching jobs back home supply those to teachers.

I know it must be a shock.

You're not in Kansas anymore Dorothy. I'll wager the English program curriculum for many Thai schools amounts to: get some falangs to teach.

[joespnet]

There is an official Thai School Curriculum for every grade and subject, and there are English translations available. It is vague, prolix and manages to convey remarkably little useful information considering it's length.

Needless to say, most textbooks written in western countries will only vaguely conform with the the Thai curriculum. So, if your school does choose to provide you with a curriculum you may find a whole new set of headaches!

I recently started to use an M1 Science book that was published by a company called Pelangi and theoretically matches the official Thai curriculum (I haven't sat down and compared the content with the Thai curriculum to verify this, but admin and the MOE both seem to think that it's a good match). They publish books for several subjects and for all grades. However, I am rather hesitant to recommend them as the book I am using has some serious flaws.

It was written by Malaysian teachers and so the English is fine, and the individual chapters are usually well organized and well written, but the overall editing is awful. Some chapters are short and easy, others are very long and contain M5 or M6 level subject matter. While I wouldn't go so far as to call it a total disaster, it certainly is not as well-written and easy to teach from as the Singaporean books that I have been using.

Thank you, otherstuff1957. Do you know where the Thai School Curriculum is available, preferably both Thai and English versions? I've been trying to find out if there is an official set of standards, so this is good news.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry for the late response, I don't check these threads often.

http://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Facademic.obec.go.th%2Fweb%2Fdoc%2Fd%2F147&ei=3q60VMTlFJbluQTVmYKQAw&usg=AFQjCNHLy5QYWd1h1sMbuKcn_48BDnZEMA&sig2=tj8UE_EMv9QukD7mL6lxUQ&bvm=bv.83339334,d.c2E

The link will take you to a nearly 300 page PDF file, so you might want to download rather than just open the link.

Thanks very much, otherstuff1957. Very helpful.

The English language section makes reference to the number of words that graduates of grades 3, 6, 9, and 12 should have the ability to use.

These are:

Grade 3 graduates - 300-450 words (concrete words)

Grade 6 graduates - 1050-1200 words (concrete and abstract)

Grade 9 graduates - 2100-2250 words (words of higher abstract quality)

Grade 12 graduates - 3600-3750 words (words with different levels of usage)

Do you know where to find the word lists this is based on?

Thank you very much for your help.

[otherstuff1957]

Sorry, but I'm a Science teacher, not an English teacher, so I don't really stay on top of that sort of thing. However, the Dolch word list would be a good place to start for very young learners.

[Mencken]

Fake it till you make it.

Unlike in westetn countries, you craft a what you ate going to teach from a core curriculum, then twach that your lifetime, hopefully improving upon it year on year.

In Thailand there is zero job stability, especially if an agency is involved. So, not only might you end up in a different school the following year, you might teach M1 this year, M5 the next and M3 the following. Why bother?

Get the book, teach the book. If there is no book or its a book of dubious Internet downloads - just do your best and move on. Its just a game snd you are one of the pieces.