About me and my thoughts on riding in Thailand.

[Carol Jadzia]

I knew when I started this thread people would assume that I was in some way having a go at them. That is far from the case.

The simple fact is that every day you survive riding a motorcycle you have a days more experience.

There is no substitute for experience.

Don't get me wrong I think there is always room for learning.

I learned a hell of a lot when I rode in Thailand. I also learned a lot doing police advanced training days.

I still learn loads on the roads here, only been riding here for thirty years.

Don't matter what we say and do here anyway. Nothing to do with me.

But things are already happening, there are initiatives in place to try and address the accident rates.

And as the import duty on large bikes decreases and more larger capacity bikes are built in Thailand then by default more people get onto bigger bikes.

It does not take a rocket scientist to work out where this is heading.

The same that has happened in Europe, tighter and harder laws and testing disproportionately aimed at big bikes because thats who is having all the accidents on the stats.

Hey maybe it will not happen, maybe I am just sensationalising?

[Hili]

The fact is things don't work like this in LOS. Example: for this year the government had a campaign for the 7 most dangerous days of the year - 0 Deaths! Result: A total of 341 people died which is actually more than last year!

I agree with you that it there need to be done something, but living here for some time i know it wont happen anytime soon. Actually its getting worse just for one single reason more cars/ bikes = more accidents, but you know the government had a campaign which leaded into a large increase of vehicles. I tell you what - "they" don't give a shit.

[RubberSideDown]

^

Hili is right.

The majority of road deaths in LOS (75%, I believe) involved scooter riders- most of those riders weren't wearing helmets- a fair percentage were alcohol-related, and many were never licensed for a bike or car. All three of those things are illegal, and every rider who died knew it.

Enforcement of road laws ranges from heavy and intrusive (in the form of road-blocks like in certain parts of Bangkok and heavily-touristed areas like Phuket) to practically non-existent (the outer provinces, especially in the most rural areas). In all cases, though, the main goal as far as the police are concerned is punitive revenue generation, and actual safety means nothing (evidenced by the fact that a rider cited for not wearing a helmet is allowed to ride off helmetless, and his ticket acts as a 24-hour 'get-out-of-jail-free' card against being again fined for the same infraction).

Enhanced rider education would mean nothing in Thailand. Using the US as an example, in states where there are no helmet laws, about 25% of riders legally don't wear them, and these riders are very disproportionately involved in fatal accidents. I wouldn't say rider education is great in the US, but it's way better than it will ever likely be in LOS, and still riders will ride in an inarguably less safe fashion (I support their right to choose, and I also exercise my right to consider helmetless riders fools). My point here is that safety goes beyond simple education.

In order to really force helmets upon the masses, the police would have to totally revamp their system of enforcement, and they would need to work on issuing citations that were actually geared toward increasing safety, meaning that if you don't have a helmet, your bike is impounded until you show up with one to pick it up- this isn't going to happen.

Having ridden in Thailand for nearly 14 years on both scooters and 'big bikes, I've had my balls busted at traffic stops several times by cops who wanted money- they didn't give a crap if I was flattened by a truck 30 seconds after paying them off. In the States, I was stopped several times for legitimate infractions (mostly speeding), and I paid fines and insurance increases, and spent time in traffic school and court. I wouldn't say I was riding unsafely, but I can't argue that I broke the law. Of the two riding environments, I prefer Thailand- I have more autonomy over my riding habits, and fewer worries about riding in the manner I prefer.

Things are the way they are here because that's what the people want- they want lax enforcement and the ability to make their own choices- I'm with them in that regard. The fact they might make stupid choices is up to them, and I accept this as a foreigner living here.

[guzzi850m2]

Well said RSD.

I get the felling that the scooter riders in Thailand mostly think that helmets are for use because the police tells you so.

Every time I ride in Pattaya and when/where are chances are slim to get stopped by the police, app50% don't wear helmets but put them on before they reach the "hot spots", only to take them off when out of danger of encounter a police check.

My Thai wife had a nasty accident +5 years ago but a cheap Thai helmet saved her from serious injury (helmet cracked into 2 pieces) and she never ride without one since and me either, even going to the 7/11 1 km away and back, helmet on.

I forgot to add: Thais on big bikes are better wearing proper gear than expats, see many here in Pattaya on mid sized bikes wearing shorts/flip-flops and I can see that they are expats and not tourists.

Edited January 12, 2015 by guzzi850m2

[taninthai]

But strange to make a post about road safety in Thailand and then post a video of yourself riding a relatively big bike in a vest top......

[Carol Jadzia]

But strange to make a post about road safety in Thailand and then post a video of yourself riding a relatively big bike in a vest top......

That just proves you didn't bother to read the post.

[nikster]

Read the letter about riding in Thailand. All in all, very good advice - maybe put that on the front of the article this can save lives.

I was a bit surprised about the reports on "aggressive driving" - then saw it's about Phuket, and minibuses. Phuket mini bus drivers are nuts. Utterly mad. I sat in one of those buses once, he was racing down the road like a madman, obviously way too fast for safe driving, trusting karma to not put any obstacles in our way. The wife was with me, she will not set foot in a Phuket minibus ever again. And she's Thai and grew up in Bangkok! So Phuket is an oddity in Thailand.

Another thing to consider is that Thais think that slow bikes - such as one would come up on with a car - belong on the left side of the road, or on the curb. Personally I think riding on the curb is nuts, too - never gotten used to it, so I always remain fast enough to keep up with traffic. On a big bike, safest way to go is with the flow.

If you're going slow on a bike and you are in the middle of the lane then you're breaking all Thai traffic rules. Certainly the unspoken ones, but I think also the actual by-the-law ones. I know that's what one learns when learning to ride in Europe. Stay in the middle, and pretend you're a car, so other traffic doesn't try and squeeze through. I have a motorcycle driving license from back home and that was one of the things. But this is Thailand, rules and regulations and certainly expectations are different here. Slow bikes must go in the left. Something to know when riding here. Avoids confusion.

[Carol Jadzia]

Read the letter about riding in Thailand. All in all, very good advice - maybe put that on the front of the article this can save lives.

I was a bit surprised about the reports on "aggressive driving" - then saw it's about Phuket, and minibuses. Phuket mini bus drivers are nuts. Utterly mad. I sat in one of those buses once, he was racing down the road like a madman, obviously way too fast for safe driving, trusting karma to not put any obstacles in our way. The wife was with me, she will not set foot in a Phuket minibus ever again. And she's Thai and grew up in Bangkok! So Phuket is an oddity in Thailand.

Another thing to consider is that Thais think that slow bikes - such as one would come up on with a car - belong on the left side of the road, or on the curb. Personally I think riding on the curb is nuts, too - never gotten used to it, so I always remain fast enough to keep up with traffic. On a big bike, safest way to go is with the flow.

If you're going slow on a bike and you are in the middle of the lane then you're breaking all Thai traffic rules. Certainly the unspoken ones, but I think also the actual by-the-law ones. I know that's what one learns when learning to ride in Europe. Stay in the middle, and pretend you're a car, so other traffic doesn't try and squeeze through. I have a motorcycle driving license from back home and that was one of the things. But this is Thailand, rules and regulations and certainly expectations are different here. Slow bikes must go in the left. Something to know when riding here. Avoids confusion.

The driving as we approached Phuket did seem to go down hill. But I was not going to comment too much on that due to limited experience. However the multi-lane highway with its multi lights and strange junctions would I think drive anyone mad and I know it's a bigger island but it has a totally different feel to Samui.

I found the left lane thing a bit nuts. I tried to keep in the spirit of things and use it when the road was clear. Felt odd undertaking cars but hey ho.

The repeater signs telling bikes to use the lane gave the suggestion that you had to. But I worked out that was more aimed at the smaller bikes and the combo's. Same as a motorway hard shoulder - full off shit. Plus the added bonus of people turning left across your path or pulling out on you.

However I think the mini bus drivers are a nightmare. I had serious issues with our ferry/hotel transfer driver on ko samui. He got aggressively close to the guy on a motorbike in front of us. Sometimes even going alongside him in the same lane. We were all stuck in traffic. After a couple of miles of driving like a loon we finally managed to pass the biker - I think he decided to pull back for his own safety. Only to pass us 1/2 mile later at lights.

The mini bus drivers along the Surat Thani Route 401 were the same. Driving as if it was the end of the world.

As for the coach drivers well normally you only have to look as far as the coach to see the battle scars.

[H1w4yR1da]

And I have often done more than a 1000 km's in a day. I have regularly done that sort of mileage almost every day for work.

A 1000 km commute? Or while working? You must be in the saddle all day! You must have the ultimate iron butt!

I tend to get pretty sore around the 500 km mark. But then I'm an old f***er on a sportsbike.

Edited January 13, 2015 by H1w4yR1da

[H1w4yR1da]

I forgot to add: Thais on big bikes are better wearing proper gear than expats, see many here in Pattaya on mid sized bikes wearing shorts/flip-flops and I can see that they are expats and not tourists.

I've got to disagree here. The big-bike riding Thais I've seen rarely gear up to the same level as westerners. The only expat westerners I've seen in Pattaya on bikes wearing flip-flops and shorts are always on mopeds and scooters, I've yet to see one on a mid-sized bike like an Monster, Er6n/f or CBR500. Not saying they don't exist but I reckon they'd be rare.

But maybe westerners in Pattaya are the wrong people to compare to Thai big bike riders. Nearly all the Thais I've ever ridden with have worn the minimum of gear.

[Carol Jadzia]

From what I saw the Thais wore the Same as the western bikers and there was a cross section. Just the same as I would expect on a hot Summers day in the UK.

Some had top of the range kit, some had old leather. Some chose to wear kit on the ride out. Others strapped it to the back of their bikes. Most of the Big Bike Owner/Riders be they Thai or Ex-pat had at least some kit.

The one exception is gloves. OK so it's usually a lot colder in the UK. But in both countries people ride without gloves. Somebody pointed out earlier in this thread about a video of me riding without a jacket. Yes I will do. I know the risks. But I will never ride without Gloves. Simple reason is I have experienced sliding along without protection and I have no intention of expecting any of my friends to wipe my arse for me.

[Carol Jadzia]

And I have often done more than a 1000 km's in a day. I have regularly done that sort of mileage almost every day for work.

A 1000 km commute? Or while working? You must be in the saddle all day! You must have the ultimate iron butt!

I tend to get pretty sore around the 500 km mark. But then I'm an old f***er on a sportsbike.

No I have not got an Iron butt!

I have to admit the 1000 KMs a day I have only done in Van's and Lorries. I could easily do a couple of hundred a day when I was regularly training people though. Some times I have had a 150 - 200 mile commute before even starting on the days work.

I agree with you 500 km is enough and I am not interested in lapping up miles just for the sake of it. I am riding to enjoy the view not just get to the end.

[taninthai]

And I have often done more than a 1000 km's in a day. I have regularly done that sort of mileage almost every day for work.

A 1000 km commute? Or while working? You must be in the saddle all day! You must have the ultimate iron butt!

I tend to get pretty sore around the 500 km mark. But then I'm an old f***er on a sportsbike.

No I have not got an Iron butt!

I have to admit the 1000 KMs a day I have only done in Van's and Lorries. I could easily do a couple of hundred a day when I was regularly training people though. Some times I have had a 150 - 200 mile commute before even starting on the days work.

I agree with you 500 km is enough and I am not interested in lapping up miles just for the sake of it. I am riding to enjoy the view not just get to the end.

555 one minute boasting in a reply to one of my comments about doing 1000km a day nearly everyday then back tracking oh that was in a car actually....

im not commenting in this thread anymore its all about me me me with a bit of bulls*it thrown in.

Edited January 13, 2015 by taninthai

[Carol Jadzia]

And I have often done more than a 1000 km's in a day. I have regularly done that sort of mileage almost every day for work.

A 1000 km commute? Or while working? You must be in the saddle all day! You must have the ultimate iron butt!

I tend to get pretty sore around the 500 km mark. But then I'm an old f***er on a sportsbike.

No I have not got an Iron butt!

I have to admit the 1000 KMs a day I have only done in Van's and Lorries. I could easily do a couple of hundred a day when I was regularly training people though. Some times I have had a 150 - 200 mile commute before even starting on the days work.

I agree with you 500 km is enough and I am not interested in lapping up miles just for the sake of it. I am riding to enjoy the view not just get to the end.

555 one minute boasting in a reply to one of my comments about doing 1000km a day nearly everyday then back tracking oh that was in a car actually....

im not commenting in this thread anymore its all about me me me with a bit of bulls*it thrown in.

Well done, bye.

[H1w4yR1da]

Yeah...

Edited January 13, 2015 by H1w4yR1da

[Carol Jadzia]

When I was full time instructing running a training site for Motag - the largest MC training company in the UK at the time. I was averaging 2 DAS (2 to 5 day test training course) test trainees a week , often 4 through the summer. Plus I would normally do a couple of Basic Training courses.

One day someone complained. The reason he had failed his test was that when we had been training we had spent too long sat in cafe's and not enough time on the road.

So as a gesture of good will he gave the guy a extra free day of training (we would normally offer someone who failed a free second day).

So I took him out again, this time with no tea brakes. I was not vengeful or malicious. We just rode. With regular short stops I will add.

At 3 pm he asked me to stop. He apologised to me and said he could not handle any more.

I am not at the fitness levels I used to be. When training full time I would leave home between 6 and 8 depending on where I was working. Then be on the bike all day till I got back home in the evening. Yes we would have brakes but I would ride for 6 to 8 hours a day 7 days a week.

I have also driven vans and small trucks all over the UK doing high mileage runs. So what? Does that prove something? All I have said here has been honest and without contradiction.

If you are so sad as to only measure someone by the amount of miles you can do in a day. Or maybe you just like trying to pick fault with someone or just can't actually be bothered to read the posts correctly? Hey ho. No lose to me. To be honest I was expecting far more negativity when I started this thread. I have had far more shit chucked at me down the local bikers pub over the years than I have had here and online forums tend to be far worse than face to face debate as people feel protected by the anonymity.

[guzzi850m2]

I've got to disagree here. The big-bike riding Thais I've seen rarely gear up to the same level as westerners. The only expat westerners I've seen in Pattaya on bikes wearing flip-flops and shorts are always on mopeds and scooters, I've yet to see one on a mid-sized bike like an Monster, Er6n/f or CBR500. Not saying they don't exist but I reckon they'd be rare.

But maybe westerners in Pattaya are the wrong people to compare to Thai big bike riders. Nearly all the Thais I've ever ridden with have worn the minimum of gear.

The ones I am referring to are down town riders, not out on the highways, see a lot of expats on cb 300/500 some on versys 650 clearly in "town gear", almost all of them having a top box fitted so I think they use the bikes for shopping and eating out.

Carol, here in Thailand we don't wipe our asses but uses a bum gun

It's long time since I did 1000km in one day, never in Thailand. Last time was in Australia in 1998 on a Kawa klr650 and as I recall I was sleeping with my back facing upwards after those days. That was out in the outback so have to avoid riding after dark as all the kangaroos woke up and was hopping about so risky business riding unless slowing down to below 60km/h.

Did a couple of 600 km per day here in LOS on my HD back in 2006- 2008 not a problem.

The older I am getting the more comfortable I want to ride, I hope I will get a new versys 650 soon.

[Carol Jadzia]

The ones I am referring to are down town riders, not out on the highways, see a lot of expats on cb 300/500 some on versys 650 clearly in "town gear", almost all of them having a top box fitted so I think they use the bikes for shopping and eating out.

Carol, here in Thailand we don't wipe our asses but uses a bum gun

It's long time since I did 1000km in one day, never in Thailand. Last time was in Australia in 1998 on a Kawa klr650 and as I recall I was sleeping with my back facing upwards after those days. That was out in the outback so have to avoid riding after dark as all the kangaroos woke up and was hopping about so risky business riding unless slowing down to below 60km/h.

Did a couple of 600 km per day here in LOS on my HD back in 2006- 2008 not a problem.

The older I am getting the more comfortable I want to ride, I hope I will get a new versys 650 soon.

Understand. I know the ones you mean, did see some of them about as well. Difference between the Bikers and the people who use it as solely transport.

I can add a little confession here. On our last trip I did fall off. I rode a ER6 for over a 10000KM and rode a couple of CB13's round Ko Samui as transport for a few days as well. Although I didn't fall off any of those. On Ko Samui we made some dear friends in a local bike club called the Samu-i. One of the club members and irish ex pat and I got on really well. (Probably due to use both having irish blood in us) well I helped him change the exhaust on his bike.

See the silver scooter at the back of the photo? Well Abinger asked if I could pop down the shop to grab some drinks. Suggested I used the scooter. My other half - Jayne jumps on the back of the scooter as well, side saddle. She is in a skirt.

No £500 Flip front Shoe helmet. No ballistic nylon jacket. Not even wearing gloves. And guess what?

We made it 20 yrds before a car pulled out on the pickup in front of us which did an emergency stop. I hit the shit brakes on the scoot, they did not work at first then snatched, the front wheel locked and we were on our <deleted> in the middle of the road. Hey ho. There was a lesson learned!

Bum Gun is it? Cheers for that. Another good Thai term learned. I think one of the biggest things I miss about Thailand is being able to jet wash me arse.

I do like the versys. I have always rode Kawasakis when I can. Had Triumphs (proper ones!) , Yamaha's, Suzuki's, Honda's and a Cossack. Keep going back to Kawasaki's

though. The ER6 I hired was a lovely bike. What I really want however is to bring my ZRX11 over with me.

[nikster]

^ totally OT but whenever I go back visiting the west, toilets just seem barbaric. How is one supposed to get clean using a dry piece of tissue? Answer: Not. So everyone's running around dirty... ugh! At least in private homes people often have wet wipes. But bum guns are just so much simpler, cleaner, and all around better. Should be a big market there.

[guzzi850m2]

^ totally OT but whenever I go back visiting the west, toilets just seem barbaric. How is one supposed to get clean using a dry piece of tissue? Answer: Not. So everyone's running around dirty... ugh! At least in private homes people often have wet wipes. But bum guns are just so much simpler, cleaner, and all around better. Should be a big market there.

Now since the topic turned into bum guns;

A friend of mine back in DK used to spend a lot of time in Thailand but fell in love with a lady back home and never came back anymore.

One night we were talking on Skype and he asked if I could send him a bum gun, 555.

I bought 2 for him and send them via the post office and he received them app 2 weeks later and thanked me many times.

Yes I agree with the marked options should be huge on this somewhat odd subject, he-he.

In Japan they have very complicated toilets with several bum wash options but better stick to the simple stuff here in Thailand, eh.

Way off topic, but even the most hard core biker needs a toilet now and again

[dave_boo]

^ totally OT but whenever I go back visiting the west, toilets just seem barbaric. How is one supposed to get clean using a dry piece of tissue? Answer: Not. So everyone's running around dirty... ugh! At least in private homes people often have wet wipes. But bum guns are just so much simpler, cleaner, and all around better. Should be a big market there.

Now since the topic turned into bum guns;

A friend of mine back in DK used to spend a lot of time in Thailand but fell in love with a lady back home and never came back anymore.

One night we were talking on Skype and he asked if I could send him a bum gun, 555.

I bought 2 for him and send them via the post office and he received them app 2 weeks later and thanked me many times.

Yes I agree with the marked options should be huge on this somewhat odd subject, he-he.

In Japan they have very complicated toilets with several bum wash options but better stick to the simple stuff here in Thailand, eh.

Way off topic, but even the most hard core biker needs a toilet now and again

Fashion Island has the Japanese style toilets where you can adjust the angle and pressure of the built in bum gun. Even is slightly warmed so your nutz don't climb back up inside your torso due to shock.

[ll2]

^ totally OT but whenever I go back visiting the west, toilets just seem barbaric. How is one supposed to get clean using a dry piece of tissue? Answer: Not. So everyone's running around dirty... ugh! At least in private homes people often have wet wipes. But bum guns are just so much simpler, cleaner, and all around better. Should be a big market there.

hahass. totally agree nikster.

where I m coming from parents teach the kids how to wash their a....s....s....e....s right away once they have awareness - around age 3 - 4.

never understand how people can clean their a...s..s...es with just toilet paper as it is impossible!

carol, I checked this thread and about to say good luck for you in Thailand but you have already got your first accident.

it looks like you have lots of things to learn from Thailand than Thailand needs to learn from you.

thanks for your comments and addition though.

[dave_boo]

^ totally OT but whenever I go back visiting the west, toilets just seem barbaric. How is one supposed to get clean using a dry piece of tissue? Answer: Not. So everyone's running around dirty... ugh! At least in private homes people often have wet wipes. But bum guns are just so much simpler, cleaner, and all around better. Should be a big market there.

hahass. totally agree nikster.

where I m coming from parents teach the kids how to wash their a....s....s....e....s right away once they have awareness - around age 3 - 4.

never understand how people can clean their a...s..s...es with just toilet paper as it is impossible!

carol, I checked this thread and about to say good luck for you in Thailand but you have already got your first accident.

it looks like you have lots of things to learn from Thailand than Thailand needs to learn from you.

thanks for your comments and addition though.

Toilet tissue dunked in water is actually my preferred method. Better than paper alone for obvious reasons and doesn't blast the dingle berries everywhere like using a bum gun. Absolute grossest is the people from the Indian subcontinent/arab region digging them out with water and their fingers...

[Carol Jadzia]

^ totally OT but whenever I go back visiting the west, toilets just seem barbaric. How is one supposed to get clean using a dry piece of tissue? Answer: Not. So everyone's running around dirty... ugh! At least in private homes people often have wet wipes. But bum guns are just so much simpler, cleaner, and all around better. Should be a big market there.

hahass. totally agree nikster.

where I m coming from parents teach the kids how to wash their a....s....s....e....s right away once they have awareness - around age 3 - 4.

never understand how people can clean their a...s..s...es with just toilet paper as it is impossible!

carol, I checked this thread and about to say good luck for you in Thailand but you have already got your first accident.

it looks like you have lots of things to learn from Thailand than Thailand needs to learn from you.

thanks for your comments and addition though.

On the point of toilets I can only agree that I am a convert to the bum gun. Discovered that on my first visit. I can remember some of my posh friends houses, when I was a kid, having a bidet. But I thought it was for washing your feet or something. Does make sense now though. Not as good as a bum gun though. Problem is here that not many wet rooms. I suppose if I had the money I could waterproof the bathroom but we have already had problems flooding the flat down stairs. Seems that the marketeers are already on the case though http://www.thebumgun.com/

First Accident? I have had many accidents, this was not even my first in Thailand, just the first this trip. Not embarrassed by falling off. Only ever come off at lower speeds. Taken out filtering through heavy traffic a couple of times, had a couple of people turn into me at junctions over the years. First time in Thailand we hired scooters on Ko Samui, went off roading, fell off a couple of times. However on my last trip to Thailand before the road trip I got a bit of rust stuck in my eye. That did cause a bigger issue. That happened on the train. Worst accident I have had was writing off a 7.5t truck . started on the M5 Motorway, ended up in a field with no front axle. I know some who have never had an accident. Good for them. I have been a professional rider and driver for many different companies since I was 16. I do try to avoid falling off though because it hurts and cost money.

So is it that the only people who can comment on road safety are the ones who ride around in day-glow, or more likely drive a volvo for safety? When I first became an Instructor for the Star Rider National Motorcycle Training Scheme in the UK the bosses wanted to get rid of the Bikers in order to clean up their corporate image. They discovered however that they would have no instructors left if they did. Although these days I am a bit more aware of my mortality. I think to be honest everyone should be more amazed that I managed not to fall off when off roading on an Er-6 on road tyres. I was pleased with myself as I spend most of my time riding on tarmac.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Carol Jadzia

[Carol Jadzia]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/456949/slap-on-a-helmet-keep-your-child-safe-on-the-road

[DILLIGAD]

Bum Guns (BG). British water by-laws prevent any possibility of contaminated water mixing with clean. That's why you don't see BG"s in UK. Same reason when you buy a shower rail& hose set, you get that annoying little clip that the hose must go through, clipped to the rail.

Plumber head now off & Biker one back on.

OP, Ride Safe & ignore the haters.

[Carol Jadzia]

I re-edited one of the movies I had made. 1st off using speeded up footage did not work as well as I hoped and there were copyright issues with some of the songs.

If you are interested then see if you spot the very near miss. Blink and you will miss it.