Charlie Hebdo attack: Killing is not the answer

[technologybytes]

This is not the work of muslims, it's the work of extremist murderers. The fact that they are, or claim to be Muslim is almost irrelevant. I say that because there are extremist murderers who claim to be followers of every religion.

Don't hate muslims just because a tiny percentage are evil, look at the bigger picture.

Islam is a peaceful religion in the way that christianity is a peaceful religion. Both have a tiny percentage of followers who want to cause murder and mayhem. I'm not a muslim and I'm not a christian, but I have been around long enough to see good and bad in both.

Edited January 12, 2015 by technologybytes

[Jingthing]

This is not the work of muslims, it's the work of extremist murderers. The fact that they are, or claim to be Muslim is almost irrelevant. I say that because there are extremist murderers who claim to be followers of every religion.

Don't hate muslims just because a tiny percentage are evil, look at the bigger picture.

Islam is a peaceful religion in the way that christianity is a peaceful religion. Both have a tiny percentage of followers who want to cause murder and mayhem. I'm not a muslim and I'm not a christian, but I have been around long enough to see good and bad in both.

I think you are rather misinformed because you don't factor in the rather significant percentages of Muslims that are actually supportive of Islamic jihadist actions. Why is it a problem to call a spade a spade? They were ISLAMIC JIHADISTS. It's the truth.

The terrorist who murdered the Jews at the store was an antisemitic ISLAMIC JIHADIST, something that also "enjoys" a significant percentage of support in the Muslim world.

The truth of this isn't pretty but acting like it doesn't exist doesn't make it go away.

To wit ... :

Because the ideology is the product of a major world religion, a lot of painstaking pretzel logic goes into trying to explain what the violence does, or doesn’t, have to do with Islam. Some well-meaning people tiptoe around the Islamic connection, claiming that the carnage has nothing to do with faith, or that Islam is a religion of peace, or that, at most, the violence represents a “distortion” of a great religion. (After suicide bombings in Baghdad, I grew used to hearing Iraqis say, “No Muslim would do this.”) Others want to lay the blame entirely on the theological content of Islam, as if other religions are more inherently peaceful—a notion belied by history as well as scripture.

A religion is not just a set of texts but the living beliefs and practices of its adherents. Islam today includes a substantial minority of believers who countenance, if they don’t actually carry out, a degree of violence in the application of their convictions that is currently unique. Charlie Hebdo had been nondenominational in its satire, sticking its finger into the sensitivities of Jews and Christians, too—but only Muslims responded with threats and acts of terrorism. For some believers, the violence serves a will to absolute power in the name of God, which is a form of totalitarianism called Islamism—politics as religion, religion as politics. “Allahu Akbar!” the killers shouted in the street outside Charlie Hebdo. They, at any rate, know what they’re about.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/blame-for-charlie-hebdo-murders

Edited January 12, 2015 by Jingthing

[Don Aleman]

Born, not voluntarily, a Catholic and I have seen, in my 80 years, many shameful depictions of priests, the Pope and, literally, hundreds of dirty jokes featuring the same but, never, went out and killed a Muslim although Muslim

actions the past 15 years or so, have had me thinking about it lately !

[Jonmarleesco]

'... religion remains an emotionally charged issue.' Unfortunately, where a minority of cowardly individuals are concerned, it is also a lunatically-charged issue.

[Kitsune]

Hi.

Huge demonstrations in France yesterday

Not far than 2 millions people in Paris, 4 millions in France

All for "Je suis Charlie" & "Terrorism, never that again !"

I don't think we want to say "terrorism never that again"

We are not naive, and since 30 years now of terrorism in the world, we sadly have to live with it.

What we are saying is "We are not afraid and are ready to stand up for our freedom" which is totally different.

We are not hoping for the end of terror, we are responding to it by showing unity.

If we are united as Muslims, Catholics, Jews, Laics terrorism won't have any more targets.

[Naam]

What I cannot understand is why do they have to kill in the name of their God,if he is so powerful and wants to get revenge,why not do it himself?

i somehow missed the part in the Qr'an where "their powerful God wants to get revenge". please be kind enough and point out the sura that mentions it. thanks

it's also worthwhile to mention that educated Muslims do not differentiate between "their" and the God of "others" but consider the God of the biblical alleged ancestor of all Arabs (Abraham / Ibrahim) as "their" God. true Muslims consider Jews as well as Christians as "People of the Book" (Old Testament) who unfortunately do not recognise the last version, revelations and commandments written down in the Qr'an who's major parts are based on the Old Testament, especially the bloodthirsty parts and the draconic punishments.

as far as the New Testament is concerned the Qr'an acknowledges Jesus (Isa ben Maryam) not only as a prophet but also the Christian belief of his virgin birth and last not least that Jesus will be the "chairman" come Judgment Day.

on a lighter note... one could call ol' Prophet Mohamed the inventor of "copy and paste" but he had to do all manually

this information is free of charge and if it was "pearls before..." i couldn't care less.

[Ulysses G.]

This is not the work of muslims, it's the work of extremist murderers.

It is the work of Muslims who read the Qur'an literally and do what it says to do. They are only "extremists" in that they follow their religion strictly and are hundreds of years behind other religions as far as reforms.

[NeverSure]

Hi.

Huge demonstrations in France yesterday

Not far than 2 millions people in Paris, 4 millions in France

All for "Je suis Charlie" & "Terrorism, never that again !"

demonstrations will not resurrect those who were killed and neither will they prevent future additional killings caused by derogatory treatment of a major faith.

i wonder what would have happened in a devout Buddhist country if a revered person was depicted as was prophet Mohamed depicted in this carricature published by "Charlie Hebdo" with the comment "a star is born".

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102747491/mahomet-etoile.jpg

Who had to die because of these cartoons? Answer for the clueless: No one.

[tartempion]

This is not the work of muslims, it's the work of extremist murderers. The fact that they are, or claim to be Muslim is almost irrelevant. I say that because there are extremist murderers who claim to be followers of every religion.

Don't hate muslims just because a tiny percentage are evil, look at the bigger picture.

Islam is a peaceful religion in the way that christianity is a peaceful religion. Both have a tiny percentage of followers who want to cause murder and mayhem. I'm not a muslim and I'm not a christian, but I have been around long enough to see good and bad in both.

In Irak you get blown to pieces whilst shopping for food in a market because the market is a shia or sunni place or vice versa.

Sure Islam is a peaceful religion.

[ABCer]

<quote OP>

"Killing is not the answer...

But the fact remains: mocking a sacred religious figure is dangerous...

Charlie Hebdo is a French satirical weekly newspaper that pokes fun at just about everything under the sun, including revered religious figures...

We may not agree with the mocking of religious and political figures by this magazine but it is hard to justify any act of terror in retaliation to the magazine's work...

These terrorists have done nothing to help non-Muslims have a better understanding and appreciation of Islam, which promotes peace and tolerance..."

What an example of a characteristic for Muslim Religion dual logic acceptance this article is!

In any other system of thinking (logic, religion, politics) - only one of two mutually opposing ideas is right. The other is wrong by default. Except in Islam!

Just take a close look at the article.

* Killing is not the answer... But it is! Fact.

* ...mocking a sacred religious figure is dangerous... Sacred for who? Why dangerous?

* ... poking fun at just about everything... Is it good? Is it bad? ... Is it not allowed to include revered religious figures? Revered by who?

* Would it be harder to agree with the mocking? Or justify any act of terror? ... If there is a choice? OP leaves the impression that there is none.

* These terrorists have done everything to help non-Muslims to understand - No peace is promoted by Islam!

The overall impression from the article - a clumsy attempt to make Islam likeable in the wake of Paris Killings. Bad timing, try again.

[i claudius]

What I cannot understand is why do they have to kill in the name of their God,if he is so powerful and wants to get revenge,why not do it himself?

i somehow missed the part in the Qr'an where "their powerful God wants to get revenge". please be kind enough and point out the sura that mentions it. thanks

it's also worthwhile to mention that educated Muslims do not differentiate between "their" and the God of "others" but consider the God of the biblical alleged ancestor of all Arabs (Abraham / Ibrahim) as "their" God. true Muslims consider Jews as well as Christians as "People of the Book" (Old Testament) who unfortunately do not recognise the last version, revelations and commandments written down in the Qr'an who's major parts are based on the Old Testament, especially the bloodthirsty parts and the draconic punishments.

as far as the New Testament is concerned the Qr'an acknowledges Jesus (Isa ben Maryam) not only as a prophet but also the Christian belief of his virgin birth and last not least that Jesus will be the "chairman" come Judgment Day.

on a lighter note... one could call ol' Prophet Mohamed the inventor of "copy and paste" but he had to do all manually

this information is free of charge and if it was "pearls before..." i couldn't care less.

Please note ,i said "if he is so powerfull AND ,notice that word AND wants to get revenge ,i was saying in my own way that GOD would never commit these atrocities.

[soalbundy]

When you have nothing in life except ignorance, persecution, drudgery and poverty people tend to turn to religion in its extremest form. The christian religion went through various forms of blood orgies, look at the crusades for instance, before enlightenment through better education allowed us not to take religion so seriously or to reject it outright. The Muslim world is a little behind the curve on this, in fact they have evolved backwards, they were once the guiding lights in science,medicine, mathematics and astronomy and have now succumbed to dogma. Evolution in reverse. It is surprising that the younger generation of Muslims living in the west not only refuse to remove the yoke of an iron age religion from their shoulders but appear to embrace it fully, why, i have no idea.

[Naam]

When you have nothing in life except ignorance, persecution, drudgery and poverty people tend to turn to religion in its extremest form. The christian religion went through various forms of blood orgies, look at the crusades for instance, before enlightenment through better education allowed us not to take religion so seriously or to reject it outright. The Muslim world is a little behind the curve on this, in fact they have evolved backwards, they were once the guiding lights in science,medicine, mathematics and astronomy and have now succumbed to dogma. Evolution in reverse. It is surprising that the younger generation of Muslims living in the west not only refuse to remove the yoke of an iron age religion from their shoulders but appear to embrace it fully, why, i have no idea.

you have to differentiate between the younger generation of Muslims in the West who are on the lowest step of the social and financial ladder and young Muslims who "have made it" are "established" and therefore care a flying fàrt about jihad and similar islamist rubbish. and that applies not only to the West but also to a high percentage of young Muslims living in "conservative" countries.

exceptions just prove the rule.

[Naam]

Hi.

Huge demonstrations in France yesterday

Not far than 2 millions people in Paris, 4 millions in France

All for "Je suis Charlie" & "Terrorism, never that again !"

demonstrations will not resurrect those who were killed and neither will they prevent future additional killings caused by derogatory treatment of a major faith.

i wonder what would have happened in a devout Buddhist country if a revered person was depicted as was prophet Mohamed depicted in this carricature published by "Charlie Hebdo" with the comment "a star is born".

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102747491/mahomet-etoile.jpg

Who had to die because of these cartoons? Answer for the clueless: No one.

why don't you comment on "what would have happened in a devout Buddhist country..." but come up instead with an indirect comparison of apples and strawberries?

Muslim "evolution" lags the Christian one by 6½ centuries. if your cartoons would have been published in the European 14th century the culprits would have died an absoeffinglutely horrible death.

note: the last "witches" were tortured and burned on the stake in the name of Christianity even 300 years later and a 30 year long war between Christian "Sunnis" and "Shias" which devastated Europe happened around the same time.

next!

[Ulysses G.]

why don't you comment on "what would have happened in a devout Buddhist country..."

The devout Buddhists certainly would not have murdered a bunch of innocent people who had nothing to do with the cartoon. That is the signature of radical Islam.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Naam]

why don't you comment on "what would have happened in a devout Buddhist country..."

The devout Buddhists certainly would not have murdered a bunch of innocent people who had nothing to do with the cartoon. That is the signature of radical Islam.

it happens all the time that a bunch of innocent people, e.g. women and children, are killed by a hellfire rocket fired from a drone somewhere in Afghanistan or Waziristan. those who are responsible for these killings are calling the unfortunate victims "collateral damage".

[simple1]

When you have nothing in life except ignorance, persecution, drudgery and poverty people tend to turn to religion in its extremest form. The christian religion went through various forms of blood orgies, look at the crusades for instance, before enlightenment through better education allowed us not to take religion so seriously or to reject it outright. The Muslim world is a little behind the curve on this, in fact they have evolved backwards, they were once the guiding lights in science,medicine, mathematics and astronomy and have now succumbed to dogma. Evolution in reverse. It is surprising that the younger generation of Muslims living in the west not only refuse to remove the yoke of an iron age religion from their shoulders but appear to embrace it fully, why, i have no idea.

you have to differentiate between the younger generation of Muslims in the West who are on the lowest step of the social and financial ladder and young Muslims who "have made it" are "established" and therefore care a flying fàrt about jihad and similar islamist rubbish. and that applies not only to the West but also to a high percentage of young Muslims living in "conservative" countries.

exceptions just prove the rule.

It's interesting to note that in France with a 10% Muslim population, 70+ % of the prison population are from a Muslim heritage. Most of those who travel to the likes of Syria as foreign fighters or have committed terrorist attacks in the West in recent times are from a criminal environment, I assume mainly initially radicalised in prison.

Edited January 13, 2015 by simple1

[dragonfly94]

When you have nothing in life except ignorance, persecution, drudgery and poverty people tend to turn to religion in its extremest form. The christian religion went through various forms of blood orgies, look at the crusades for instance, before enlightenment through better education allowed us not to take religion so seriously or to reject it outright. The Muslim world is a little behind the curve on this, in fact they have evolved backwards, they were once the guiding lights in science,medicine, mathematics and astronomy and have now succumbed to dogma. Evolution in reverse. It is surprising that the younger generation of Muslims living in the west not only refuse to remove the yoke of an iron age religion from their shoulders but appear to embrace it fully, why, i have no idea.

you have to differentiate between the younger generation of Muslims in the West who are on the lowest step of the social and financial ladder and young Muslims who "have made it" are "established" and therefore care a flying fàrt about jihad and similar islamist rubbish. and that applies not only to the West but also to a high percentage of young Muslims living in "conservative" countries.

exceptions just prove the rule.

I don't buy this down and out = extremist, success = moderate line. In the UK many terrorists have been highly educated and include doctors and other professionals. Don't forget Bin laden and those in the middle east still subsidising Islamic terror worldwide were and are multi millionaires. Or do you think the killers in Paris bought the guns out of their unemployment money? Islamists have been recruiting on UK University campuses for years, but never heard of them recruiting outside a job center.

Some of the donkey canon foder are on the lowest step, particularly unintelligent black converts, but the huge funding for propaganda, Schools and arms come from people who are very established indeed, from oil!

[NeverSure]

Yes, the wealthy contributors to terrorists, i.e. Iran etc. are just underprivileged po' boys who can't help themselves.

BS. They are fanatical loons who worship a child molester who's responsible for countess deaths murders.

9/11. Never forget.

Edited January 13, 2015 by NeverSure

[dragonfly94]

It's interesting to note that in France with a 10% Muslim population, 70+ % of the prison population are from a Muslim heritage.

I wonder how does this shocking figure compare to other immigrant groups from other religions who have had the same disadvantages? I think it's another sign that Muslims cannot integrate into western society. What are they in prison for apart from drugs, rape and theft?

[dragonfly94]

h.

note: the last "witches" were tortured and burned on the stake in the name of Christianity even 300 years later and a 30 year long war between Christian "Sunnis" and "Shias" which devastated Europe happened around the same time.

next!

Wrong the last witches and 'wizzards' were tortured and beheaded in Saudi Arabia quite recently, or does beheading not count?

Saudi man executed for 'witchcraft and sorcery'

Human rights groups have repeatedly condemned executions for witchcraft in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-18503550

Edited January 13, 2015 by dragonfly94

[Steely Dan]

"These terrorists have done nothing to help non-Muslims have a better understanding and appreciation of Islam, which promotes peace and tolerance".

How long must we listen to this broken record BS?

I was giving this some thought. So Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance. Mohammad was an example of the perfect man. There is no compulsion in religion. Take a look around the world and every single day scores of people die at its tolerant hands, are we really supposed to believe this bull?

Well no, I don't think we are, but it is the perfect way to test for a cowed, dhimmi population on one hand or a brainwashed unthinking one on the other. If this were not the case then why not give the cult at least a few redeeming features? It has none, and perhaps this is the point.

[soalbundy]

"These terrorists have done nothing to help non-Muslims have a better understanding and appreciation of Islam, which promotes peace and tolerance".

How long must we listen to this broken record BS?

I was giving this some thought. So Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance. Mohammad was an example of the perfect man. There is no compulsion in religion. Take a look around the world and every single day scores of people die at its tolerant hands, are we really supposed to believe this bull?

Well no, I don't think we are, but it is the perfect way to test for a cowed, dhimmi population on one hand or a brainwashed unthinking one on the other. If this were not the case then why not give the cult at least a few redeeming features? It has none, and perhaps this is the point.

I am prejudiced i have no time for Muslims, i openly admit it but let us be fair, during the Irish troubles terrorists calling themselves Christian Catholics and terrorists calling themselves Christian Protestants were laying bombs and killing people as well. The newspapers always referred to them as either Catholic or Protestant when in fact they were just evil murdering bastards.

[Naam]

h.

note: the last "witches" were tortured and burned on the stake in the name of Christianity even 300 years later and a 30 year long war between Christian "Sunnis" and "Shias" which devastated Europe happened around the same time.

next!

Wrong the last witches and 'wizzards' were tortured and beheaded in Saudi Arabia quite recently, or does beheading not count?

Saudi man executed for 'witchcraft and sorcery'

Human rights groups have repeatedly condemned executions for witchcraft in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-18503550

ok, let's do some hairsplitting... was the Saudi "sorcerer" beheaded in the name of Christianity as mentioned in my posting?

[Naam]

"These people are brainwashed from birth. There is no way to change something so ingrained. IMHO they should all be hooked up to a lie detector then asked "Do you think it is right that someone should be killed for drawing the prophet Mohammed". If their answer is yes, they should be deported to keep goats for the rest of their lives in a Muslim country.

I think the % of people who would say 'Yes' to the above question would be quite a shock."

85% of British Muslims think insulting their (pedophile with a penchant for merciless killing) non-prophet should be a crime. Yet the obnoxious liberals insist that objections to this are founded in bigotry and racism.

One of the less talked about tenets of faith of Islam is the principle of ghiba. Ghiba stated simply means that if you say or do something against another, and that other is offended by what you have said you have committed ghiba. It does not matter whether what was said is true or not -- we are not talking about slander -- it only matters whether the other is offended by your actions. If what you say is offensive to the other party, you have committed the sin of ghiba, which can not be forgiven by the Prophet or even by Allah. Only the offended party can forgive this grave sin.

If this sounds just like Thailand's libel laws, you are right. If you offend the Prophet, you have by extension offended every Muslim on the face of the earth. You can only be redeemed from this horrible sin, by the personal forgiveness of every Muslim.

Each and every devout Muslim believes in this principle or they are not a devout Muslim.

thanks for enlightening us who is and who is not a devout Muslim

[dragonfly94]

"These people are brainwashed from birth. There is no way to change something so ingrained. IMHO they should all be hooked up to a lie detector then asked "Do you think it is right that someone should be killed for drawing the prophet Mohammed". If their answer is yes, they should be deported to keep goats for the rest of their lives in a Muslim country.

I think the % of people who would say 'Yes' to the above question would be quite a shock."

85% of British Muslims think insulting their (pedophile with a penchant for merciless killing) non-prophet should be a crime. Yet the obnoxious liberals insist that objections to this are founded in bigotry and racism.

One of the less talked about tenets of faith of Islam is the principle of ghiba. Ghiba stated simply means that if you say or do something against another, and that other is offended by what you have said you have committed ghiba. It does not matter whether what was said is true or not -- we are not talking about slander -- it only matters whether the other is offended by your actions. If what you say is offensive to the other party, you have committed the sin of ghiba, which can not be forgiven by the Prophet or even by Allah. Only the offended party can forgive this grave sin.

If this sounds just like Thailand's libel laws, you are right. If you offend the Prophet, you have by extension offended every Muslim on the face of the earth. You can only be redeemed from this horrible sin, by the personal forgiveness of every Muslim.

Each and every devout Muslim believes in this principle or they are not a devout Muslim.

thanks for enlightening us who is and who is not a devout Muslim

I don't see any cause for pointless sarcasm. The post was interesting, had you heard of Ghiba before then? I had not so I leaned something from the post. There is certainly a lot of it on here.

[Ulysses G.]

I don't see any cause for pointless sarcasm.

Pointless sarcasm is his forte.

[Naam]

"These people are brainwashed from birth. There is no way to change something so ingrained. IMHO they should all be hooked up to a lie detector then asked "Do you think it is right that someone should be killed for drawing the prophet Mohammed". If their answer is yes, they should be deported to keep goats for the rest of their lives in a Muslim country.

I think the % of people who would say 'Yes' to the above question would be quite a shock."

85% of British Muslims think insulting their (pedophile with a penchant for merciless killing) non-prophet should be a crime. Yet the obnoxious liberals insist that objections to this are founded in bigotry and racism.

One of the less talked about tenets of faith of Islam is the principle of ghiba. Ghiba stated simply means that if you say or do something against another, and that other is offended by what you have said you have committed ghiba. It does not matter whether what was said is true or not -- we are not talking about slander -- it only matters whether the other is offended by your actions. If what you say is offensive to the other party, you have committed the sin of ghiba, which can not be forgiven by the Prophet or even by Allah. Only the offended party can forgive this grave sin.

If this sounds just like Thailand's libel laws, you are right. If you offend the Prophet, you have by extension offended every Muslim on the face of the earth. You can only be redeemed from this horrible sin, by the personal forgiveness of every Muslim.

Each and every devout Muslim believes in this principle or they are not a devout Muslim.

thanks for enlightening us who is and who is not a devout Muslim

I don't see any cause for pointless sarcasm. The post was interesting, had you heard of Ghiba before then? I had not so I leaned something from the post. There is certainly a lot of it on here.

i have worked and lived nearly 11 years in the Middle East my good man. half of that time in Saudi Arabia. my Arabic is fluent (including reading/writing) although i speak with a rather heavy Hejazi accent which amuses people in the Gulf states.

do you still think i learned something new reading the "ghibla" posting?

[tigermonkey]

One of the less talked about tenets of faith of Islam is the principle of ghiba. Ghiba stated simply means that if you say or do something against another, and that other is offended by what you have said you have committed ghiba. It does not matter whether what was said is true or not -- we are not talking about slander -- it only matters whether the other is offended by your actions. If what you say is offensive to the other party, you have committed the sin of ghiba, which can not be forgiven by the Prophet or even by Allah. Only the offended party can forgive this grave sin.

If this sounds just like Thailand's libel laws, you are right. If you offend the Prophet, you have by extension offended every Muslim on the face of the earth. You can only be redeemed from this horrible sin, by the personal forgiveness of every Muslim.

Each and every devout Muslim believes in this principle or they are not a devout Muslim.

thanks for enlightening us who is and who is not a devout Muslim

I don't see any cause for pointless sarcasm. The post was interesting, had you heard of Ghiba before then? I had not so I leaned something from the post. There is certainly a lot of it on here.

i have worked and lived nearly 11 years in the Middle East my good man. half of that time in Saudi Arabia. my Arabic is fluent (including reading/writing) although i speak with a rather heavy Hejazi accent which amuses people in the Gulf states.

do you still think i learned something new reading the "ghibla" posting?

So glad that you have so much backgound in Arabic and presumably in Islam -- by the way the term is ghiba NOT "ghibla" - just saying !

Edited January 14, 2015 by tigermonkey

[Naam]

So glad that you have so much backgound in Arabic and presumably in Islam -- by the way the term is ghiba NOT "ghibla" - just saying !

terribly sorry Sir! i will now hang my head in shame