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Man Detained In Thailand Over Jonbenet Death


corkscrew

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The US morning TV news programs today were all a bit bemused by the traditional Thai police circus that presents the accused of a crime to the media as a staged production. The American defense lawyers interviewed expressed shock at the public spectacle. I found their reaction to be highly entertaining, as I got to see an aspect of Thai culture through unjaded eyes for the first time again.

Most of the bobble head pundits on the TV stations were fairly skeptical of this gentleman's confession and hoped that the authorities would be able to connect the DNA evidence to this guy, otherwise there would be little chance of a conviction as anything this weirdo said in Thailand would not be admitted into a US court as evidence.

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Hey Shotover, good to see you! I guess the link was taken down after their server crashed from all the hits!

Anyway, I have a feeling that this guy is not the murderer. Yes, he looks the part, but something just does not seem right about the whole thing and his story....I'm pretty sure he is guilty of all those things that he was charged with , but I don't think he was anywhere near the Ramsey home that night. Maybe he was so obssesed with the Jon Benet murder that he actually thought that he was the actual killer - He must have gone out of his way to get as much information as possible about the case, so much so that he became a good suspect..

I, like many Americans, followed this story since the night of her murder, ( It was a BIG deal here ) and there are still many questions left unanswered about the case, like why was the ransom note found at the scene in Patsy Ramey's handwriting? Why was there no footprints at all outside in the newly fallen snow outside the house, and why the Ramsey's never took a lie detector test, among other things...

And I also find it strange that after all this time, they finally find the suspect in Bangkok. A pedophile - in Thailand of all places? What a surprise! Just too convienient a story , if you ask me - it sounds like something you would see on a bad episode of "Cold Case". I would believe the story more if they found him in Latvia, or Uraguay, or even Indonesia. This thing looks similar to how they suddenly found the killer of the Lindberg Baby, out of the blue. Remember that one?

I guess we'll have to wait for the DNA tests to really be sure now....But then again, DNA as evidence was not a factor in winning that other high profile murder case...

Speaking of which, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if next we find out that OJ is really innocent, and that Nicole and Ron Goldman's real killer has finally been found in Phuket as a scuba diving instructor...

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There are reports the suspect made statements to the police concerning details of the killing which DO NOT match the evidence. Also, the suspects ex-wife stated both she and he were together, in their home in Georgia, the day (night) of the murder in Colorado.

Does anyone know how long he lived in Thailand?

He has apparently lived in Thailand for sometime. He has an apartment in BKK and was to start a new job next week, as a 2nd. grade teacher. :o

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WHAT'S NEW LIKE COLORADO IS NOT AKIN TO FLORIDA. USA NEVERTHELESS IS RELATIVELY NOT AS BAD. CHECK OUT GERMANY & JAPAN'S IMPORTED CH YOUNG KIDS FOR WHATEVER ABUSE.

-- A suspect in the JonBenet Ramsey murder has been arrested in Thailand, Denver TV station KUSA reports. CNN working to confirm.

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ya'oh IT'S NORMAL TO BE 'ASCENENT' IN USA so crazy is totally norm

Hey Shotover, good to see you! I guess the link was taken down after their server crashed from all the hits!

Anyway, I have a feeling that this guy is not the murderer. Yes, he looks the part, but something just does not seem right about the whole thing and his story....I'm pretty sure he is guilty of all those things that he was charged with , but I don't think he was anywhere near the Ramsey home that night. Maybe he was so obssesed with the Jon Benet murder that he actually thought that he was the actual killer - He must have gone out of his way to get as much information as possible about the case, so much so that he became a good suspect..

I, like many Americans, followed this story since the night of her murder, ( It was a BIG deal here ) and there are still many questions left unanswered about the case, like why was the ransom note found at the scene in Patsy Ramey's handwriting? Why was there no footprints at all outside in the newly fallen snow outside the house, and why the Ramsey's never took a lie detector test, among other things...

And I also find it strange that after all this time, they finally find the suspect in Bangkok. A pedophile - in Thailand of all places? What a surprise! Just too convienient a story , if you ask me - it sounds like something you would see on a bad episode of "Cold Case". I would believe the story more if they found him in Latvia, or Uraguay, or even Indonesia. This thing looks similar to how they suddenly found the killer of the Lindberg Baby, out of the blue. Remember that one?

I guess we'll have to wait for the DNA tests to really be sure now....But then again, DNA as evidence was not a factor in winning that other high profile murder case...

Speaking of which, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if next we find out that OJ is really innocent, and that Nicole and Ron Goldman's real killer has finally been found in Phuket as a scuba diving instructor...

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The Jon Benet Ramsey case has been one of the biggest unsolved murders of a 6 year old girl in the states. This is BIG NEWS back in the states... If this is really her killer, it will solve over 10 years of investigation and millions of dollars spent. The parents of this girl were widely accused of being her killer for years. Her Mother just died months ago of cancer. Although this guy has confessed, I wouldnt bet my life that he's guilty. If he's smart, he thought to himself "Hmmm. 25 years in the Bangkok Hilton or 30 -50 in San Quentin..." It's a no brainer.. If I was headed to a Thai prison for a sex crime I would have confessed to the JFK assination... :o

and who was JonBenet Ramsey?

A few billion people don't know.

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As the news media in the USA paints so many venues of this story it's impossible for me to form any opinion on it. This also holds true for the conflicting reports from the police agencies involved in the story.

But I saw this today and found it a tab bit scary. Here's an artist drawing from a psychic's description in 1999 and the suspect:

44e4c7a020f83.jpg44e4c7a067c2e.jpg

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http://www.job4teacher.com/Candidates/JohnKarr.html

Here is his resume and I know I saw this back when I was hiring

teachers. Even made a comment then that I thought it was a bit odd:

This link no longer works. Did anyone save the link or copy the resume info, and if so, can post it here?

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:S0FfV...lient=firefox-a

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somethings smells about this guy. First impression is a weirdo that might not have done it. I hope he is the guy but early reporting is a bit strange, typical perhaps but if it is possible to be too weird to have done this then this guy fits the bill.

His ex-wife claims that he was with her at the time the little girl was murdered

Took em long enough to get him! How long has he been in Thailand for? since 1996???!

or since June if you had read any of the stories

Hmm too news and associated cluggage to read with all the stuff getting spouted off! Far easier for quick answers from your good self! :o

Yeah this guy is no murderer he is just putting it on I reckon.

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Its hard to judge which behavior is nuttier: actually doing such a crime or acting like he did. If you really listen to his tv "confession" there is lots of room for interpretation. For example, Are you an innocent man? No. Well, not innocent of what? He says it was an accident. But did he say it was his accident. When asked about specifics of how he got in the house, he replies No comment. So bizarro, a bonanza for the press.

Like I said before, his insane confession will not convict him. They are going to need more, and so far, it is not at all clear they have anything more.

It can be interesting to venture a guess though. I would guess he is just insane and didn't do it. Of course, I am usually wrong on such guesses. I was sure they would convict Michael Jackson.

Edited by Thaiquila
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Body language is communication from the subconscious and the subconscious in incapable of lies. When working with a client reading body language is how Hypnotherapists judge the effectiveness of suggestions and make adjustments accordingly.

My read from the photos, is he makes eye contact too easy and his posture is open and not closed. If he was remorseful then he would be looking down and no eye contact. Also as in open he sits unprotected with his arms and legs apart. Not a way a person would sit if he or she knew they would never see the sun unobstructed again.

Confession in JonBenet case questioned

By CATHERINE TSAI

BOULDER, Colo. - For a moment, it seemed the decade-old mystery surrounding the slaying of a child beauty queen had been solved. But authorities Thursday cautioned against rushing to judge the schoolteacher who made a stunning confession that he killed JonBenet Ramsey.

For now, the only public evidence against John Mark Karr are his own words. And questions have already been raised about the details of his story, including whether he drugged the girl, sexually assaulted her or was even in Colorado at the time of the slaying.

Those questions led some to wonder whether Karr was the answer to the long-unsolved slaying or a disturbed wannabe trying to insert himself into a high-profile case.

"We should all heed the poignant advice of John Ramsey," Boulder County District Attorney Mary Lacy, quoting the little girl's father. "Do not jump to conclusions, do not rush to judgment, do not speculate. Let the justice system take its course."

Paraded before a raucous crush of reporters in Bangkok, Thailand, the sullen Karr told how he loved JonBenet, was with her when she died but that her death was an accident. And while vague on the details — "it would take several hours" — he answered flatly when asked if he was innocent: "No."

"The bottom line is that they now have a confession and until and unless they can corroborate that confession with either physical evidence or strong circumstantial evidence, that's all they have," said Scott Robinson, a Denver attorney who has followed the case from the beginning.

Added former Denver prosecutor Craig Silverman: "I have to believe they have more than this kooky confession."

Karr told investigators he drugged and sexually assaulted the little girl before accidentally killing her in her Boulder home, according to a senior Thai police officer who was briefed about the interview with U.S. authorities.

Yet JonBenet's autopsy report found no evidence of drugs, saying her death was caused by strangulation after a beating that included a fractured skull. And while it describes vaginal injuries, it makes no conclusions about whether she was raped.

Karr's ex-wife told TV reporters she cannot defend him, then insisted he was with her in Alabama during Christmas 1996, when JonBenet's battered body was found in the basement of her home. And authorities have not said whether Karr could have written the detailed ransom note found in the Ramsey home, with its demand for $118,000 (the bonus that had recently been awarded to the girl's father, John Ramsey).

Even the Colorado professor who swapped four years' worth of e-mails with Karr and brought him to the attention of prosecutors in May refused to characterize the suspect either as killer or kook.

"I don't know that he's guilty," said Michael Tracey, who teaches journalism at the University of Colorado. "Obviously, I went to the district attorney for a reason, but let him have his day in court and let JonBenet have her day in court and let's see how it plays out."

Karr himself added to the mystery, telling The Associated Press in Bangkok that JonBenet's death was "not what it seems to be."

Asked what happened when JonBenet died, he said: "It would take several hours to describe that. It's a very involved series of events that would involve a lot of time. It's very painful for me to talk about it."

Any previous relationship between Karr and the Ramseys remained a mystery Thursday, though both have ties to suburban Atlanta. District Attorney Lacy refused to discuss the case during a brief news conference and suggested Karr's arrest may have been forced by concern over public safety and fears the suspect might flee.

"There are circumstances that exist in any case that mandate an arrest before an investigation is complete," Lacy said.

Karr, 41, was arrested at a Bangkok apartment Wednesday, a day after he began teaching second grade at an international school, Lacy said.

Hours later, Thai authorities sat him before a crowded room of news crews. Karr stunned reporters by admitting: "I was with JonBenet when she died. Her death was an accident."

"I am so very sorry for what happened to JonBenet," Karr told the AP.

Legal experts said DNA evidence will likely be key: DNA was found beneath JonBenet's fingernails and inside her underwear and authorities have never said whether it matches anyone in an

FBI database. U.S. and Thai officials did not directly answer a question at a news conference about whether there was DNA evidence connecting Karr to the crime.

Karr was given a mouth-swab DNA test in Bangkok, according to a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation. The results of that test were not immediately known. Karr will be given another DNA test when he returns to the United States in the next several days, the official said.

Karr will be taken within the week to Colorado, where he will face charges of first-degree murder, kidnapping and child sexual assault, Ann Hurst of the Department of

Homeland Security told reporters in Bangkok.

Lin Wood, the Ramsey family's longtime attorney in Atlanta, said Karr went to great lengths to conceal his identity in e-mails to the university professor, going so far as to use a computer server in Canada.

Asked if authorities could tell whether Karr had firsthand knowledge of the murder or had just picked up information from news accounts, Wood said: "There is information about the murder that has never been publicly disclosed." He did not elaborate.

Karr's ex-wife, Lara Karr, was quoted by San Francisco television station KGO saying she was with her former husband in Alabama at the time of JonBenet's killing and she does not believe he was involved in the homicide.

Denver attorney Larry Pozner, past president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, said there were "serious questions" about the case.

"I hope we have found the murderer of JonBenet, but I have not heard the evidence that compels that conclusion," he said.

Karr's description of the case as an accident also rang false to experts.

"It's hard to imagine a more intentional, deliberate murder than hitting a little girl in the head so hard that she had almost a foot-long fracture in her skull and then deliberately fashioning a garrotte to twist until it buries in her neck and slowly stops her breathing," said Silverman, the former Denver prosecutor. "This has always been a case of deliberate murder."

Associated Press writers Lara Jakes Jordan in Washington and Chase Squires in Boulder, Colo., contributed to this report.

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Another irony about this case is that if they end of dropping the charges because they don't have a case, this guy is going to be majorly rich and have no need to teach English or bathe little girls for chump change ever again. Another American dream story.

I just wish he was arrested somewhere else. I don't appreciate the lurid slurs against the country from the likes of CNN and Fox. Another poster said it right, if you are going to trash Thailand on the sex trade, in all fairness every time you mention America you should mention the high percentage of Americans in prison.

It is kind of random that he was arrested in Thailand considering all the other countries he spent time in.

Edited by Thaiquila
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Does anyone know how long he lived in Thailand?

He has apparently lived in Thailand for sometime. He has an apartment in BKK and was to start a new job next week, as a 2nd. grade teacher. :o

According to the timeline below, as well as other reports, he had already started working there... beginning on last Tuesday, the 15th:

Timeline of John Mark Karr

BANGKOK, Thailand — John Mark Karr, a former American school teacher who is a suspect in the 1996 death of 6-year-old beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey, is believed to have traveled extensively in the United States, Europe, Latin America and Asia in recent years:

2006

_ May: University of Colorado Professor Michael Tracey, who had been corresponding with Karr about the case for four years, contacted the Boulder district attorney about their e-mail exchanges.

_ June 6: Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsiskul, head of Thailand's immigration police, said Karr arrived in Bangkok from Penang, Malaysia, to look for a teaching job. Karr had been in Thailand five times over the past two years.

_ Aug. 11: Suwat said U.S. authorities informed Thai police that an arrest warrant had been issued for Karr on charges of premeditated murder.

_ Aug. 15: Karr began teaching second grade in the international school system in Bangkok, according to the district attorney in Boulder, Colo.

_ Aug. 16: Arrest warrant sent to Thai police and Karr taken into custody.

_ Aug. 17: Karr told reporters in Bangkok, Thailand, that he was "with JonBenet when she died" and that "her death was an accident."

2004-2005

_ A resume for "John Karr" posted on Job4Teacher.com, with a photo that strongly resembles Karr, claims he taught various subjects, recruited new English teachers and maintained a library at La Esperanza School in Honduras.

He also said he instructed corporate executives in English in San Jose, Costa Rica. The authenticity of the resume could not be confirmed.

Interpol says there are no criminal charges pending against Karr in Honduras, and the Honduran attorney general's office said it has no record of crimes committed by Karr in the country.

2004

_ Aug. 3: John Karr left Costa Rica, crossing the border into Nicaragua by land. Costa Rican authorities say they have no record of him entering the country and no other evidence of his stay.

2002-2003

_ The JobRTeacher.com resume in Karr's name says he was a private English teacher and caregiver in Germany and the Netherlands, apparently for three families with young children. It lists Stuttgart and Munich as cities he has visited. Public prosecutors in both cities say they have no record of any investigation involving Karr. The authenticity of the resume could not be confirmed.

2002

_ April: California Commission on Teacher Credentialing suspended Karr's certification. No specific reason was given, but automatic suspensions are authorized when a complaint, information or indictment is filed in court alleging the teacher has committed an offense specified in the Education Code.

2001-2002

_ Karr claims he taught English to children aged 6-12 in Seoul, South Korea, and volunteered as an English teacher in Heemstede, Netherlands, a resume posted on an English-teaching institution Web site said. The Web site took down the posting after an Associated Press reporter called. South Korean immigration officials have declined to comment. The same claim is made on the resume posted on Job4Teacher.com; its authenticity could not be confirmed.

2001

_ January - March: Karr worked in four different school districts throughout Sonoma County, Calif., between January and March 2001.

_ April 13: Karr was arrested on five misdemeanor counts of possession of child pornography, the Sonoma County sheriff's office said.

_ April 17: Karr pleaded not guilty to the charges, according to court documents.

_ April: The Sonoma County School District where Karr sometimes substitute-taught received a letter from the county superintendent of education to say Karr had been taken off the list of acceptable substitutes, after the Sonoma sheriff's office notified school officials he had been arrested.

_ April 19: Karr's wife filed for divorce.

_ Oct. 5: After a series of court hearings, Karr was released from jail, but was ordered to report to a probation officer and avoid child pornography, children and places where children congregate, such as schools, beaches and parks. The court records in the case were sealed.

_ November: A judge issues a restraining order, compelling Karr to stay 100 yards away from his wife and three children for three years.

_ December: A warrant was issued for Karr's arrest after authorities said he violated the terms of his supervised release.

2000

_ Summer 2000: Karr moved his family to Petaluma, Calif.

_ John Karr received a bachelor of science degree in liberal arts from Regents College, now Excelsior College, in 2000, spokesman Bill Stewart said Thursday.

1996-2001

_ A resume in Karr's name at Job4Teacher.com says he taught a variety of subjects at "some of the most prestigious schools in the United States" in addition to doing private tutoring. The resume says he has been to Atlanta, Dallas, Los Angeles, San Francisco and other cities, though no dates or schools are listed. The authenticity of the resume could not be confirmed.

1996-1999

_ Karr said he served as a substitute teacher at Winfield Elementary in Winfield, Ala.

1998

_ Karr said he was a computer instructor at Bevill College in Hamilton, Ala.

1996-1998

_ At Bevill State Community College in Hamilton, records show Karr was a student from the fall of 1996 to the winter of 1998. During that time he also ran a used car business, according to Marion County Probate Judge Annette Bozeman, who often saw Karr in her office working on car titles.

_ Fall 1996: Karr is hired as a substitute teacher at the high school he attended, Hamilton High School in Hamilton, Ala. He worked there until school officials received complaints that he was saying things "that didn't need to be said in an elementary class," according to the district's superintendent, Bravell Jackson.

- Associated Press

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CNN just showed quoted a case analyst, who asked,

"Guilty sicko or innocent wacko?" :o

I believe it is a case of the latter. He probably fantasised about it and it went from there. The guy who tipped off the police (a professor in Colarado) made a couple of documentaries about the case and strongly believes in the innocence of the girl's parents.

I think he got a few emails from this delusional nutcase and then alerted the police. The promise of a big fat paycheck and more royalties helps too.

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'Hundreds of e-mails' led to Karr arrest

Karr sent the correspondence to University of Colorado journalism professor Michael Tracey after viewing the first of three Tracey-produced documentaries on the JonBenet Ramsey case.

Karr and Tracey swapped hundreds of e-mails in an exchange that led the Boulder County District Attorney's Office on Wednesday to name Karr as the prime suspect in the murder of 6-year-old JonBenet almost 10 years ago.

Tracey, closely aligned with Smit and Gray, was disturbed by the e-mails from Karr and brought the two into the loop on their exchanges, according to Gray.

"We encouraged (Tracey) to continue to communicate with him on it," Gray said.

Gray said he was in possession of a "three-quarter-inch" stack of the e-mails and characterized them broadly: "(The suspect) talked about being there, about doing this and doing that, and knowing this and knowing that - he had a whole bunch of things that didn't come out before. It wasn't part of what the media was allowed to get at before."

I believe it is a case of the latter. He probably fantasised about it and it went from there. The guy who tipped off the police (a professor in Colarado) made a couple of documentaries about the case and strongly believes in the innocence of the girl's parents.

I think he got a few emails from this delusional nutcase and then alerted the police.

refer to the above, please... :o

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For those who seem to think that Thailand is being drug through the mud on this case, what would they suggest--he not be arrested?

It remains to be seen how long they have actively been seeking this guy. I just hope it doesn't turn out that they were seeking him when he was in Europe because those countries wouldn't have extraditied him if he faced the death penalty.

This might be an interesting case for a long time.

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Hmmm ... Watched the so-called press conference last night. This Norman Bates lookalike sure looks and walks the part and is probably as guilty as sin when it comes to kiddie porn but something in the way he presented himself when interviewed just doesn't click.

If convicted based on conclusive DNA evidence, all is well and will be almost a good as a closure for the victim's family. Conclusive evidence is what that is required. This bloke looks more like he's heading to the loonie clubhouse than San Quentin !

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Whether the man has anything to do with the murder or not, he is clearly not someone who should be teaching.

"Educators in Alabama, where Karr had studied education and served a teaching internship, said his interaction with children had raised concerns and he told many contradictory stories about himself.

"I did not think he could interact with children or adults .... You never knew what was true and what wasn't," Janice Myhan, a professor of education at the University of North Alabama, said."

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/cracks...13.html?page=2#

So why was he allowed to qualify as a teacher ? Did he teach in the States ? (Edit : seems he did, if info posted above is correct).

Edited by krikrik
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well it's all over the news, obviously big story in the usa,

they have shown clips of the accused and it dosn't look right, he seems to be missing something upstairs.

and they have shown clips of the victim [RIP] and i would say i would not like my daughter to dress up and act in that fashion especially at that young age, but thats a different topic.

if guilty i'm sure he will get his just deserts.

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just saw this article in The Times..

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,25...2317064,00.html

with pics of accused and the victim..

And even worse the sicko has his own myspace page...the nerve!!

http://www.myspace.com/jonbenetlover

like someone else pointed out ... not only was the pic taken AFTER the arrest ... the whole thing was created after the arrest

see everyone wants to be a star and associated with this ... pathetic

Edited by jdinasia
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Hey Shotover, good to see you! . . . Anyway, I have a feeling that this guy is not the murderer. Yes, he looks the part, but something just does not seem right about the whole thing and his story . . .

And I also find it strange that after all this time, they finally find the suspect in Bangkok. A pedophile - in Thailand of all places? What a surprise! Just too convienient a story , if you ask me -

Hey Narachon, good to hear from you. I'm just now beginning to recover from all those chilled vodka shots we 'tested' at least a year ago at the TV party.

Agree with the huge holes appearing in the murder case several parties are trying to build against what seems to be a delusional mental case. Amazing how quickly the press condemned Karr for the little girl's murder AND Thailand for being a 'pedo's paradise'. The first one will fall through (though he will be jailed for skipping his court appearances on the child porn possession charges), but the stain on Thailand's reputation will deepen.

The Ramsey's attorney was quoted just after the arrest that there was a DNA match to Karr, and that Karr provided details that only the killer would know. He's since recinded the DNA match claim (specimens haven't yet been compared), and the few details provided by Karr in his 'confession' seem to contradict forensic evidence. Not to mention there is growing evidence that he was in Alabama during the time of the murder.

It's possible that he has dug himself so deeply into the fantasy that he actually believes he was with JonBenet when she 'accidentally' died from being garotted in the neck and bashed violently in the head with a blunt object.

Also legal questions with the USA Dept of Homeland Security presenting the Thai govt. with an arrest warrant charging Karr with murder, kidnapping and sexual assault, and the Boulder DA today saying in a news conference there are currently no charges for these acts against Karr.

I fully understand the need to have Karr arrested and sent back to the US to prevent him from teaching at a Thai elementary school. However, I would think that could have been accomplished by simply providing Thai authorities with evidence of his child porn possession charges and failure to make court appearances. Certainly this would be enough for the Thais to cancel his visa and allow US authorities to take him back to the US.

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If cleared of the murder in the States, would he not have to return to face any charges here (if he was doing this to escape imprisonment here ?)

If the verdict is not guilty, will he face other charges in the States ? What happens to people who make false confessions ?

Edited by krikrik
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